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-   -   mamiya 7 users going to buy new fuji? (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69757)

aizan 02-08-2009 12:03

mamiya 7 users going to buy new fuji?
 
calling all users of the mamiya 7! now that we know the price of the fuji gf670 (at least in japan), do you plan on buying one? i'd like to see a lens comparison before plunking down the cash.

chris000 02-08-2009 12:35

I voted no. Given that I do already own a Mamiya 7 (which I'm very happy with), I'm not sure why would I want buy one whatever the price?

Tuolumne 02-08-2009 12:36

I'd probably just add the 80mm lens to my collection.

/T

nanthor 02-08-2009 13:00

Guess I missed it, what is the price?

Svitantti 02-08-2009 13:19

I believe this new camera has totally different advantages than a Mamiya 7, so I dont really see why many Mamiya users would change to Fuji/Voigtländer.

gdi 02-08-2009 13:22

Personally, I can't imagine why you would need it if you have the Mamiya, but I am sure there are those who will see it differently.

Nanthor - I believe the rumored price is over $2000...

Svitantti 02-08-2009 13:37

In the other thread there is a link to a japanese internet shop that has listed the camera with a price, for about $2500. This is of course just one example and probably not exactly what it will be in the end when others start selling it.

It is obvious that this 6x7 is much smaller when folded than the Mamiya, but also it has one single focal lenght fixed to it and probably is not just as reliable in long run as the Mamiya. You can buy many Super Ikontas etc. for that price. I guess still many enthusiasts could buy it, but for that price I dont see it as a reasonable tool for a photographer who just aims in taking photos... Rather a toy for camera people.

tensai 02-08-2009 14:13

It's ¥218000 at one of the biggest camera retailers here. link.
You get 10% back through a point system - that you do have to spend in their shop. (with the discount that means right now it's 1653 euro or US$2137).

Bob Michaels 02-08-2009 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdi (Post 989585)
Personally, I can't imagine why you would need it if you have the Mamiya, but I am sure there are those who will see it differently..

My thoughts exactly.

CK Dexter Haven 02-08-2009 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svitantti (Post 989594)
....it has one single focal lenght fixed to it and probably is not just as reliable in long run as the Mamiya. You can buy many Super Ikontas etc. for that price. I guess still many enthusiasts could buy it, but for that price I dont see it as a reasonable tool for a photographer who just aims in taking photos... Rather a toy for camera people.

A Rolleiflex has only one lens attached to it. How many of the world's most important photographs were shot with that camera?

Super Ikontas etc. don't have integral meters, do they? That, for me, changes the game completely. It's like when i first considered buying a Leica. An M3 is a beautiful tool, but without a meter. Then, there was the M6. With a meter, but not the kind of meter i want to use. When the M7 came out, it was the kind of camera that would work the way I wanted it to work, and didn't force me to change my methods for a piece of hardware. This is no different. I want a compact-ish 6x7 travel camera.

Just because it has a bellows and folds doesn't make it 'unreasonable,' nor a toy.

PATB 02-11-2009 08:32

Nope. If I had the money, I'd rather get another lens for the Mamiya.

Svitantti 02-11-2009 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by CK Dexter Haven (Post 989622)
A Rolleiflex has only one lens attached to it. How many of the world's most important photographs were shot with that camera?

Super Ikontas etc. don't have integral meters, do they?

Most Rolleiflexes neither have integral meter. Many photographers use handheld meters anyway. Incident light metering is very popular and a good method.

Quote:

That, for me, changes the game completely. It's like when i first considered buying a Leica. An M3 is a beautiful tool, but without a meter. Then, there was the M6. With a meter, but not the kind of meter i want to use. When the M7 came out, it was the kind of camera that would work the way I wanted it to work, and didn't force me to change my methods for a piece of hardware. This is no different.
M7 compared to M4-P, M4 etc. is much like this Fuji compared to a Super Ikonta.
To many, an M7 is not among the most reliable or professional tools. It has electronic shutter and more electronics and automation. I could say from my perspective it is a toy for rich people who like Leica. Not really that great as user camera for photographers.

Quote:

I want a compact-ish 6x7 travel camera.
I guess a 1600 EUR 6x7 for a travel camera sounds like what I was talking about.

Quote:

Just because it has a bellows and folds doesn't make it 'unreasonable,' nor a toy.
I know, that is why I am talking about Super Ikontas and Plaubel Makina. Personally I shoow with a Super Baldax 6x6 folder.

hiromu 02-11-2009 08:40

I used to have Mamiya 7II, and if I have money to buy the new Fuji/Voigtlander, then I would buy another Mamiya 7II with 80mm, and keep the change for films/processing...

snausages 02-11-2009 11:50

It would be very nice to throw a metered, RF coupled modern folding MF camera in a messenger bag, but I can't justify buying this camera for myself for the price. My M7, 43mm and 80mm have cost hundreds less.

richdirector 03-03-2009 00:07

I would - it folds small great to travel with and I hated the plastic feel of the Mamiya 7. I currently shoot handheld with a horseman sw612 so not averse to size but prefer to feel the quality. (no pun intended)

nbphoto 03-03-2009 02:08

I dont this its aimed at Mamiya 7 owners to be fair.
I was in a position a few months ago, owning a heavy medium format outfit, and wanting to have a small pocket camera. I wanted a MF travel camera so I did not need to hold 120 and 35mm film in stock. I wanted a built in meter (less to carry). I wanted a normal lens and a wide. etc..
If the new fuji had come along (before the recession), I would have bought one, or waited a bit and see if they come out with a 50-60mm version. In the end I got a M6TTL as it met all the requirements except using the same film stock. If the Fuji had interchangerble lenses I would have it in a heartbeat and sell the Leica. All things to all men (and women)

kram 04-22-2009 09:04

If it was a 6x9 maybe, but a 6x7, no.

craygc 04-23-2009 05:15

Another one for "why would I bother?" I have 2x 7II bodies already and for the price of the folder, I could buy a brand new 7II body + 80mm lens and still get change. Even my 43mm lens - new - was way under that price. Yes, its a space saver but for me, I'm either shooting MF or I'm not so conveniently collapsible body just doesn't deliver any value to me...

Kevin 05-09-2009 01:11

I'm still scratching my head as to why this folder is not digital with a large version of Fuji's super-duper S5 Pro sensor.

nuckabean 05-10-2009 09:09

The only thing I like about it more than my 7 is that it has the 6x6 option and I'd like square sometimes but I'd sell my 7 and get a 6 before I bought one of these guys.

Doug 05-10-2009 18:38

This thread is good for suppressing GAS, thanks. Any of us who foolishly buy this overpriced toy will be roundly criticized and the photos too. If in need of a folder just get a Super Ikonta instead, same thing, really, eh. :)

Gary E 05-10-2009 18:58

At this price it really is hard to justify purchasing and only if for it's significance of photography history. If it were under 2K, it would be an easier decision

JanPB 05-13-2009 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svitantti (Post 991464)
To many, an M7 is not among the most reliable or professional tools. It has electronic shutter and more electronics and automation. I could say from my perspective it is a toy for rich people who like Leica. Not really that great as user camera for photographers.

Its claim to fame is its 43mm lens. It's a very close derivative of Wild Aviogon and no other medium format camera in existence has something like that. Even Hasselblad uses a "mere" Biogon.

Bob Michaels 05-13-2009 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svitantti (Post 991464)
To many, an M7 is not among the most reliable or professional tools.

My Mamiya 7 has shown zero problems and never been to my friendly camera repairman in the five years I have used it constantly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svitantti (Post 991464)
It has electronic shutter and more electronics and automation.

Yep, the shutter is very accurate. I just replace the battery when it is getting low and it works 100% of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svitantti (Post 991464)
I could say from my perspective it is a toy for rich people who like Leica.

Actually I am neither rich, nor ever owned a Leica as I have never wanted one. I do own one Leica lens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svitantti (Post 991464)
Not really that great as user camera for photographers.

I will just say my opinion as a long term Mamiya 7 user differs from yours.

dazedgonebye 05-13-2009 13:54

I don't own a Mamiya 7, but thinking about the gf670 and where it would fit in my bag has me seriously considering a mamiya 7...if that makes any sense.

dazedgonebye 05-15-2009 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 1053759)
it kinda does, at the very least make you have to think doesnt it (emphasis on the MF)

perhaps a small 35mm scale focus and/or RF for ultra compact, if needed then slr (oly om1n my fav)

digital for web and pure indulgence no film costs, dslr for better

a old folder is a nice step up in resolution etc and takes up little space, very easy to carry around-limited one lens though....your ol s/balax does it but has issues with film counter, but you own it and it wouldnt cost a bomb to buy if you didnt

new bessa III is slightly bigger and heavier but still reasonably compact and portable--has light meter for ultimate simplicity and those that simply cant/wont learn to EV (about 4 stops on the light readings) but essentually takes place of old folder

mamyia 7 is bigger but has interchangable lenses, i would take my blad in place of the M7 (cos i dont have M7 anyway) but the mamiya has its advantages--in other words, it would perform much the same tasks...question is, is whether you can see yourself carring the Mamiya 7 around instead of the bessaIII

then onto the large formats...different story

Our minds (I won't say great) think alike.

The Mamiya has a huge price advantage. I could buy a used Mamiya w/80mm lens and 43mm lens for something near the price of the gs670. Size and convenience factors go to the gs670. Frankly, itís also just too cool for words for someone like me that likes folders. On the other hand, if you take the lens off of the Mamiya, the camera and lens would fit nicely in my man-bag/murse/camera bag. The Mamiya also could potentially be my most used camera because of the 43mm lens. I could in fact dump most of my 35mm gear (retaining the Hexar AF for the occasional low light work).
Large format, as you say, is another matter. Iíve only recently put my toes in that water. I find it interesting and will keep playing with it, but honestly, itís hard to justify the size/weight/expense since my output doesnít demand all that much resolution.
In fact, if it werenít for the slow lenses, the Mamiya seems to be the perfect systemÖon paper at least.

All this brought to mind because I considered the gs670 and therefore had to consider the alternatives.

Toni Nikkanen 06-23-2009 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1049979)
I'm still scratching my head as to why this folder is not digital with a large version of Fuji's super-duper S5 Pro sensor.

Because then it would cost $10000 or more instead of the $2000-ish and people would be complaining even more about the price..

I personally would like a GF670 but I can't justify the price. Maybe in a few years on the second-hand market...

(My RF equipment is Mamiya7, 43+80mm, and Bessa R2A. A pocketable MF camera would be useful but not for $2000..)

Toni Nikkanen 06-23-2009 04:40

That 6x6/6x7 switchability is something I wish Mamiya did , a Mamiya 7iii or whatever with minor refinements along with format selection ability. I would use the same body to shoot 6x6 slides for projection and printing, and 6x7 for printing.

TJV 06-26-2009 18:07

This new folder seems pretty cool but the Mamiya 7 is obviously a better camera for me. It has a more rigid body - mine has taken an absolute thrashing and not a single thing has gone wrong with it. It has interchangeable lenses and an accurate, electronic shutter. I never use the built in light meter with my Mamiya 7ii as I find it useless. Would be much better if light was read through the lens but, frankly, if I shoot anything MF or otherwise on E6 I'd never trust an inbuilt meter anyway.

The only things I don't like about my M7ii are:
1:Battery dependent and no real warning I've noticed for low batteries.
2:Cheap plastic parts on the dials and switches (EV comp, on / off, multi exp etc,) don't inspire the greatest of confidence although they've never broken on me.
3:Slow(ish) lenses.

The new folder will be perfect for people who want a one lens, compact MF travel camera. For that it is perfect.

mgd711 06-26-2009 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJV (Post 1082529)

The new folder will be perfect for people who want a one lens, compact MF travel camera. For that it is perfect.


If I wanted a compact MF travel camera I'd use my Super Baldalux!

The GF670 isn't that compact.

TJV 06-26-2009 19:56

Haha, good point, but they don't make them anymore do they?

Must admit, I've always had a lust for a wide angle Plauble Makina. Wouldn't buy one now when I could get a 50mm or 43mm for the Mamiya, but still. If I saw one down at the local shop I'd probably ring the bank manager! These new folders perhaps fill this gap for some, all be it at a rather premium price even when compared to the vintage Plaubel prices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgd711 (Post 1082532)
If I wanted a compact MF travel camera I'd use my Super Baldalux!

The GF670 isn't that compact.


furcafe 08-27-2009 05:45

I recently opted to go the (regular, not wide) Plaubel Makina route over both the Mamiya 7 & the new Fuji/Bessa, primarily because neither the Mamiya nor the Fuji/Bessa have glass faster than f/3.5-4. I also don't need the interchangeable lens capability of the 7.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJV (Post 1082543)

Must admit, I've always had a lust for a wide angle Plauble Makina. Wouldn't buy one now when I could get a 50mm or 43mm for the Mamiya, but still. If I saw one down at the local shop I'd probably ring the bank manager! These new folders perhaps fill this gap for some, all be it at a rather premium price even when compared to the vintage Plaubel prices.


jan normandale 09-09-2009 07:31

I don't feel compelled by a 6x7 at $2000. I wish it had been a 6x9 then I might have been interested.

Turtle 09-09-2009 20:03

If you own a Mamiya 7 with only the 80mm lens and dont want other FLs, then I can imagine the GF670 possibly replacing the mamiya, but as it stands the two are totally different beasts with the GW being a smaller lighter, high performance camera with ONLY a 80mm lens. I own a Mamiya 7 system and would not find any real use for the new GW as my fave FL in 6x7 is 65mm... then 50mm, then 80, then 150!

Turtle 09-09-2009 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Negative (Post 1039377)
Nah. I love my 7II and 65/80/150 lenses (I plan to pick up a 50 also).

Make sure you do. It is incredible. I have a 43 on the way, but the 50mm is mind blowingly good and suspect the 43 will be for occasional specialist use as 21 is on 35mm. Just close down a stop and take a peek at the corners of the frame with the. Mine is a stronger performer than the 65, though I love the 65 FL.

You can pick up a grey 7II for less than $2k. It might not be built like a Leica (though the lenses most certainly are), but what else will record 35mm prime like detail on 6x7 across 6 FLs while hand holdable and a RF and weighing less than 1500g?

narsuitus 09-27-2009 13:46

I would not consider trading my Fuji 6x7 rangefinder with a fixed normal lens and my Fuji 6x9 rangefinder with a fixed wide-angle lens for a Fuji gf670.

If I owned a Mamiya 7ii, I would not trade it for a Fuji f670.

However, I would not hesitate trading my two Fuji cameras for a Mamiya 7ii and two lenses.

Also, if I owned a Fuji gf670, I would not hesitate trading it for a Mamiya 7ii with a lens or two.

emraphoto 10-03-2009 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Michaels (Post 1053181)
My Mamiya 7 has shown zero problems and never been to my friendly camera repairman in the five years I have used it constantly.



Yep, the shutter is very accurate. I just replace the battery when it is getting low and it works 100% of the time.



Actually I am neither rich, nor ever owned a Leica as I have never wanted one. I do own one Leica lens.



I will just say my opinion as a long term Mamiya 7 user differs from yours.

make that 2 differing opinions

Mark A. Fisher 07-15-2010 13:36

I just ordered a new 65 for my M7II. Don't think I'll have any need for a Fuji. The M7II gives me big negatives and big smiles every time I use it!

Mark

thegman 08-02-2010 00:16

@Gary E: If you mean under 2k USD, then it's $1799 at Calumet.

I really don't think the price is all that terrible, considering what you'd get for the same money elsewhere. Obviously you can compare to used cameras, but that's not comparing like with like.

RayPA 09-11-2010 17:52

I wouldn't mind one, but too much $$ for a fixed lens MF camera. If it was in the $899 price range, I could convince myself to pull the trigger and get one. I have a 65 and an 80 for my M7 and I'm enjoying the flexibility. I also have a Rolleiflex that's got a faster lens. As much as I like the look and the idea, it's a tough sell for me.





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