Rename this subform?

[mabelsound]

It is only going to get more wordy. Why not "mirrorless large-sensor cameras"?

[M4streetshooter]

Mirrorless.

[bensyverson]

+1 for "Mirrorless." And I also think the Fuji X100 subforum should get moved here. It makes sense to discuss any large sensor (µ43 or larger) mirrorless digital camera in one place, regardless of whether it uses an interchangeable or fixed lens.

The Sigma DP1, Fuji X100, Sony NEX, Micro 4/3, etc, all belong in the Mirrorless forum.

[GaryLH]

+1 for "Mirrorless." And I also think the Fuji X100 subforum should get moved here. It makes sense to discuss any large sensor (µ43 or larger) mirrorless digital camera in one place, regardless of whether it uses an interchangeable or fixed lens.

The Sigma DP1, Fuji X100, Sony NEX, Micro 4/3, etc, all belong in the Mirrorless forum.

+1 mirrorless

Makes sense to consolidate into one forum

Gary

[elshaneo]

Yeah for Mirrorless format camera :)

[mabelsound]

That's a good point--the Sigma cameras are not really point and shoots. And Fuji could stand to go here too. Just "Mirrorless" could of course refer to any old point and shoot, but that might be a bit pedantic.

[JoeV]

I dunno. The term "mirrorless" could just as easily refer to any rangefinder camera or point-and-shoot. The essential differentiation with these new formats are large sensor, interchangeable lenses and electronic view, ignoring the X100 for the moment.

This has been discussed extensively on various fora for the last 2 years, to no real agreement. What seems to be happening in the photo press is the rise of the term "ILC", for Interchangeable Lens Camera, although that is less precise and could just as easily refer to any SLR or rangefinder made in the last half-century.

Perhaps we should just dispense with the minutiae of technical acronyms altogether and call them "bridge cameras"? It's not as technically sweet as "EVIL" or some other such term, but it broadly suggests a class of camera that most people can agree are a bridge between P&S and SLR/rangefinder.

That said, the term "EVIL" seems to be pretty accurate, technically, although I like my G1 too much to refer to it in such a derogatory tone! ;)

~Joe

[M4streetshooter]

hmmmm, there's a difference between "Mirrorless" and "mirrorless"....
just like the cameras we are discussing.....
The only thing "EVIL" about any of them is the look da wife gives me when I bring another one in the house....

[bensyverson]

"EVIL" and "ILC" don't cut it, because they rule out cameras with fixed lenses... If necessary, the Mirrorless forum could be split into "Interchangeable Mirrorless" and "Fixed-lens Mirrorless" subforums.

[Dektol Dan]

Is my submi$$ion.

[CameraQuest]

There will be no Mirrorless forum or subforum at RFF because its a really dumb name for any class of camera. Where are the mirrors (for SLR viewing) in point N shoots, view cameras, press cameras, or more importantly for our forum, RANGEFINDERS?

"Mirrorless" as a generic name for this new type of relatively large sensor mostly EVL digital camera is a totally inappropriate and inaccurate name that just does not work for people who know cameras.

Stephen

[bensyverson]

Brevity beats accuracy. Of course a Leica and a Deardorff are both mirrorless, but when people read "mirrorless," they understand what you mean. It's shorthand, and the context (RFF) helps.

If you want to be more precise, it should be "mirrorless live-view large-sensor digital," but that's quite a mouthful... MLVLSD?

[mabelsound]

There will be no Mirrorless forum or subforum at RFF because its a really dumb name for any class of camera. Where are the mirrors (for SLR viewing) in point N shoots, view cameras, press cameras, or more importantly for our forum, RANGEFINDERS?

"Mirrorless" as a generic name for this new type of relatively large sensor mostly EVL digital camera is a totally inappropriate and inaccurate name that just does not work for people who know cameras.

Stephen

OK, how about the classic EVIL? Or Large-Sensor Compacts?

Although I would object to your characterization of Mirrorless as inappropriate. People who know cameras know that it means "Like an SLR, but with no mirror." Though you're definitely right, technically.

[rondo]

Small Sensor P&S
Large Sensor P&S
also:
Film P&S

[wblynch]

MILF - mirrorless interchangeable-lens format

[will-i_am]

large sensor non slr cameras

[Warren T.]

MILF - mirrorless interchangeable-lens format

heheh, this acronym one may turn up some interesting, NSFW, results on Internet searches :eek::D.

[DNG]

large sensor non slr cameras

Might be the best yet,
This would assume only Larger than p/s would get in.

OR:

4/3rds & up Non-SLR cameras

[DougFord]

‘the thing that ate japan’ :rolleyes:

[will-i_am]

Might be the best yet,
This would assume only Larger than p/s would get in.

OR:

4/3rds & up Non-SLR cameras

I don't actually use any of these cameras so i am not a regular visitor to this forum but have been following this thread mainly for amusement and just thought that the term non slr might be a way to get around the term mirrorless that has seemed to cause a bit of disagreement between some people, as far as sensor sizes go i really have no idea, good luck with the hunt.

[jarski]

Nytimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/technology/personaltech/03CAMERA.html) uses "mirrorless interchangeable lens" (MIL).

[bensyverson]

This is so stupid.

How about "mirrorless?"

[jarski]

This is so stupid.

How about "mirrorless?"

"mirrorless" was "dumb".

[LeicaFoReVer]

I believe micro 4/3 by itself must be a separate subforum then you can call others as "mirrorless APS-sensor cameras" why to be too specific like PK or NEX? who knows what will be out tomorrow?

sigma dpx and fuji can go under fixed lens mirrorless APS...

[gekopaca]

I believe micro 4/3 by itself must be a separate subforum then you can call others as "mirrorless APS-sensor cameras" why to be too specific like PK or NEX? who knows what will be out tomorrow?

sigma dpx and fuji can go under fixed lens mirrorless APS...

"All these cameras" seems to be too great paradigm, only to be represented by a sub-forum, isn't it?

And from what I read, NEX users and M43 users are a bit "stiff" with each other ...

[wblynch]

CLIC - Compact Lens-Interchangeable Camera

[bensyverson]

Okay, I finally figured it out. This can please everyone.

We rename the forum Machines for Image Recording, with Removable—or Respectable—Lenses, and Equipped with Serious Sensors...

MIRRORLESS for short.

[semordnilap]

"Prosumer Large Compacts" :cool:

[retro]

WTF is Micro PK?

Can I call my Canon RF a Micro M42?

[greyelm]

Digital Interchangeable Lens Discussion Opportunity or DILDO for short.

[tic]

Isn't EVIL the accepted term? Granted, the SLR forum on this site is evil but maybe that could be renamed "mean SLRs" or "naughty SLRs"...

[Al Patterson]

"EVIL" and "ILC" don't cut it, because they rule out cameras with fixed lenses... If necessary, the Mirrorless forum could be split into "Interchangeable Mirrorless" and "Fixed-lens Mirrorless" subforums.

I like "EVIL"and "ILC". But then again, this IS a rangefinder forum, and we should just be glad the owner allows us to post about other systems here...

[Al Patterson]

Digital Interchangeable Lens Discussion Opportunity or DILDO for short.

OMG! Fortunately, I had swallowed my beverage, or my keyboard would be covered with beer...

That was funny. Thanks for the laugh....

[Al Patterson]

Nytimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/technology/personaltech/03CAMERA.html) uses "mirrorless interchangeable lens" (MIL).

I could suggest "Mirrorless Interchangable Lens Format", but "MILF" has a bad connotation on the internet. :D

[gekopaca]

Digital Interchangeable Lens Discussion Opportunity or DILDO for short.


GREEEEEEEAT!

[Matus]

"The Not So Compact Digital Cameras Forum"

"Large Sensor Mirrorless Cameras"

.. but the DILDO or MILF is fine too :D

[malcD]

OTHER'S will do for me

[CameraQuest]

good thread people.

we do need a new name for the subforum

how about

CEVIL ?

Compact Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens ?

Stephen

[uhoh7]

EVIL
EVIL
EVIL
EVIL
EVIL

"Evil is the intention of causing harm or destruction specifically from the perception of deliberately violating some moral code without guilt, without torment, without consequences.... The philosophical question of whether morality is absolute or relative leads to questions about the nature of evil, with views falling into one of four opposed camps: moral absolutism, amoralism, moral relativism, and moral universalism.

The root meaning of the word is of obscure origin though shown to be akin to modern English "over" and modern German über (OE ofer) and "up" (OE up, upp) with the basic idea of transgressing."


wikipedia

[Jamie Pillers]

Or how about "Digital almost-rangefinder cameras"? :-)

[Jamie Pillers]

The Fuji X100 has a mirror. :-( But then again, its going to be so special that it'll need its own forum. :-)

[Jamie Pillers]

And someone that designs these is called a Cevil Engineer?