Why the Vivitar 35ES is just so much nicer than the Konica Auto S3

[buzzardkid]

Received a Vivitar 35ES in the mail today.

This camera is in specifications really close to the Konica Auto S3, which has developed a cult following in the last two years and as a result is hard to find and expensive nowadays.

The Vivitar is much nicer.


Lens: 40mm f1.7 vs 38mm f1.8, 35ES wins
ISO: both have a scale up to 800, a tie
Shutter: identical Copal, B, 8, 15, 30, 60, 125, 250, 500, a tie
Viewfinder: meter visible on both but the Vivitar shows only the meter right and two corners, 35ES wins
Gripping: the Vivitar is easier to grip, M3-style vulcanite, 35ES wins
material: S3 is black chrome over alloy, Vivitar is Black Paint over brass :eek: 35ES wins
Top deck: Vivitar has M3-style windows and top deck isn't flat like the S3. 35ES wins (at least, I think so...)
Rear door: Vivitar has a GN scale on the back door, 35ES winsBoth take a 1.35 Wein Cell, on the Vivitar even the cap for the battery is black paint over metal.

This could put a stop to my M2 and Summilux 35/1.4 itch, for which I have no justification at all...
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=83175&stc=1&d=1292078541

[erikbe]

It looks very nice. How about posting some images?

[Brian Sweeney]

The Minolta 7s-II has full manual operation, you can set the aperture and shutter speed. It is the same size, basic body as the Konica and the Vivitar.

Does the Vivitar allow full manual operation?

[Bill58]

Who made it for Vivitar?

[Greyscale]

Who made it for Vivitar?It was made by Cosina to vivitar's specs.

[btgc]

I'd read explanation how many grades of f-stop 1.7 lens is faster than 1.8 :)

S3 lacks GN table because it employs flashmatic system, I believe, Vivitar also does so.

There's another obscure brand (which I have forgot already) under which analog of KAS3 were sold. Knowledge is power, isn't it?

[buzzardkid]

The Minolta 7s-II has full manual operation, you can set the aperture and shutter speed. It is the same size, basic body as the Konica and the Vivitar.

Does the Vivitar allow full manual operation?

Hi Brian,

the Vivitar 35ES is like the Konica Auto S3, no manual but shutter priority.

Also, it has a setting for the GN on the lens barrel, like the Auto S3 has. The aperture then is coupled with the distance the lens is set at.

Not sure if this is the 'Flashmatic' system, but I think it is?

The camera is just so much nicer than an alloy with chrome camera, and I love the 'split-level' top plate. It's like a small Leica and matches my black M3 really nicely.

[Mablo]

Nice compact camera. I don't think I've seen it before. Johan, snap a test roll and show us some photos!

[Brian Sweeney]

"Follow-Focus" Flash automation was the answer to using fixed-output flash on a fixed-lens RF. Minolta called it "Easy-Flash", others had their own names as well. I Relied on it for my Hi-Matic 9.

I even have a Nikon F-Mount lens that allows GN numbers to be set on the lens, then the aperture couples with the focus ring. The 45/2.8 GN-Nikkor.

[zumbido]

"Follow-Focus" Flash automation was the answer to using fixed-output flash on a fixed-lens RF. Minolta called it "Easy-Flash", others had their own names as well. I Relied on it for my Hi-Matic 9.


Same here. The only camera I've ever seen, no matter cost or spec, that had a flash usable without fussing about. Every other auto flash system I've ever used has been just godawful in its results.

[Jack Conrad]

There's another obscure brand (which I have forgot already) under which analog of KAS3 were sold.

Revue 400SE...

[raid]

The Vivitar is much nicer.

Lens: 40mm f1.7 vs 38mm f1.8, 35ES wins

Johan: This is highly questionable. Do you a side by side test of both lenses?


ISO: both have a scale up to 800, a tie Shutter: identical Copal, B, 8, 15, 30, 60, 125, 250, 500, a tie


As you said.

Viewfinder: meter visible on both but the Vivitar shows only the meter right and two corners, 35ES wins Gripping: the Vivitar is easier to grip, M3-style vulcanite, 35ES wins

I disagree here again. I hate my M6 meter which shows only three metering setting (below, on target, above). I favor seeing the entire meter scale so that I can better arrive at the appropriate exposure fora given situation, like in my Canon F1N.


material: S3 is black chrome over alloy, Vivitar is Black Paint over brass 35ES wins
Top deck: Vivitar has M3-style windows and top deck isn't flat like the S3. 35ES wins (at least, I think so...)

Both points are subjective and may not imply that one camera is superior to the other. Brass is heavier than Alloy. Many people favor lighter cameras.


Rear door: Vivitar has a GN scale on the back door, 35ES wins

Again,this point is not really a "point".

I need to see side by side test results before I would favor one lens [and camera] over the other.

Johan: Enjoy your camera. It looks very nice indeed.

[buzzardkid]

Raid,

my bad, my description was incomplete it seems.

The Konica Auto S3 shows the full meter scale right, a full frame line top and a full frame line left.

The Vivitar 35ES shows the full meter right as well, but only a corner top left side and top bottom side.

Makes for a less cluttered viewfinder.

Considering the lens: The lens barrels on both 35ES and S3 are similar to the smallest detail. Both have identical Copal shutters and an ISO scale to 800, levers to operate the ISO are identical. Shutter blades are the same number, CdS-meter eyes are identical as well. The coating on both lenses looks identical and the lenses look identical when seen from the inside as well.

My guess is that Cosina in fact made only one type of this lens-and-shutter combination, and both companies decided to label it differently. After all, the difference between 40/1.7 and 38/1.8 would be negligible (and might in fact be non-existent when it comes to the amount of light and DOF?)

The thread says that one camera is nicer than the other, and I'm well aware that 'nicer' is highly subjective!

[raid]

I have the Konica S3 which a gentleman here or at PN just gave to me as a gift. It looks like new.

Both cameras seem to virtually identical for all practical purposes.

[btgc]

Revue 400SE...

I had another brand in mind, compared to which Revue is very well known (at least, to me)!
Aha, while Revue used to distribute photo gear in Germany, there were similar channel in England - this is what I can't name.

[raid]

Quelle used to sell Revue items in Germany.

[Brian Legge]

I'll have to try this or the S3 some time.

I'm giving up on a working 7sII for now. After 3 which turned into parts cameras, I think its time to stop chasing it. At least I got to try an almost working on built from parts. ;)

[btgc]

Quelle used to sell Revue items in Germany.

Thanks for correction, Quelle were distributor while Revue were brand of photo gear.

I took effort to find picture I were referring on. Prinz is another name of our hero. Teacher in Uni used to say that beloved child has many names (he were referring to theorems) so this camera fully complies to this statement.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/45/140041067_04ff0900fe_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64411625@N00/140041067/)
70s rangefinder 7sii, auto s3, viv 35es prinz 35er (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64411625@N00/140041067/) by heerbhup (http://www.flickr.com/people/64411625@N00/), on Flickr

In Japan KAS3 were sold as C35 FD.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3015/3016199092_ffab7be6dd_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mijonju/3016199092/)
Konica F1.8 C35 FD aka: konica auto S3(new toy) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mijonju/3016199092/) by Mijonju (http://www.flickr.com/people/mijonju/), on Flickr

Flickr

[raid]

I lived in Germany, so I bought stuff from Quelle.

[Roger Vadim]

The 40/1.7 lens on the Revue 400SE is truly stellar, one of my sharpest lenses with a nice rendering. The Revue doesnt has a manual setting which means it doesnt get much use unfortunately.

It is small and lightweight and also black ;) I should take it out more often.
Actually this camera started the virus and the GAS syndrome...

Really nice camera, wiith all its siblings and sisters and brothers. Does anybody knows who build the lens?

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=55485&ppuser=10440

(how do I attach a picture from the RF gallery?)

[Silva Lining]

Here is a link to some shots taken with mine....
http://www.pbase.com/phillbrown/vivitar_35es&page=all (Vivitar 35ES)

don't know whether its better than a S3 but it is a great little camera - don't use it enough!

http://www.pbase.com/phillbrown/image/54128157.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/phillbrown/image/92587487.jpg

[jmca21]

Love the Vivitar 35ES. Check out the pics I've taken with one. Posted here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/45306487@N08

[muf]

Odd that you compare it to the Konica Auto S3. It more closely resembles the Minolta 7SII and the Revue 400SE. Looks a nice camera though. The S3 has a cult following because it has an outstanding pin sharp lens. I've had mine since 2003. Hope that Vivitar turns out to be a good piccy taker. You've built it up now so I don't want disappointment!

Paul

[Brian Sweeney]

I had both the Minolta 7s-II and Konica S3, sold both. Basically the same chassis, but optics of both lens and viewfinder are different, and the Konica is shutter-preferred auto operation only. The minolta uses a cemented pair for the front section of the viewfinder, and the cement hazed over. The Konica uses a split pair for the viewfinder, making it easy to clean. Lenses on both were quite good, but I preferred the heavier build of the Minolta Hi-Matic 9 and Konica S2. The mechanism of the S3 and 7s-II is not as heavily made, and gears are not as durable as their full-sized counterparts. The Canonet QL17L which preceded the GIII is my choice for a compact camera. Heavier build quality, and the lens tends to be sharper than the GIII. The viewfinder is easy to clean, and mechanism is heavier made- like a full-size camera.

[mathomas]

That is really a great-looking compact 35mm. It reminds me of a fixed-lens CL. I have a CL fetish lately, so now I'm going to eBay to see what these go for. Thanks a lot for the GAS :-\.

[mathomas]

CL fetish sated: last night I rolled the dice and bought a CL body on eBay. Decent deal if it works properly. Fingers crossed.

There was a Vivitar 35ES on auction, too, but nowhere near as nice as the one pictured in this thread. Price was $39 B.I.N. IIRC. Seller considers it "needing restoration".

[jmca21]

I knew I had a pic somewhere of both the Vivitar 35ES and the Leica (Leitz Minolta) CL and I finally located it. Both are great cameras!

[shadowfox]

It's great to read about these little wonders again.

I recall that after chasing the holy-grail of fixed-RF a few years ago, my personal impression was that Olympus 35 RD and Minolta Hi-matic 7sII being the two most desirable, and Konica S3 as being just okay.

Most of the online sample shots from these are taken at f/8 or smaller aperture, in which it's really hard to tell which lens is "better" but the 35 RD and 7sII stood out for me because their wide-open shots are quite stunning.

It'll be interesting to see if the Vivitar has a good lens as well.

[Bhup]

Hi I do have a Konica Auto S3, Vivitar 35ES, Minolta 7sii and Prinz 35ER. The Auto S3 is not as wide it’s about 3mm narrower and the lens is different. Looking through the view finders The Image in the auto s3 is a lot bigger well laid out very nice. Looking through the viewfinder of the other three cameras, they look similar but the fonts for the aperture are different. The boldest font is on the Prinz ER35. I can only guess the lens on the 7sii and the Vivitar are the same coating. The Prinz seems to have a different coating. Looking at the shape size of front and rear elements of the Prinz 35er 7sii and Vivitar 35ES, I cant tell them apart. Because of the fill in flash system of the Konica Auto S3 you can drop the Auto S3 into fully manual mode.. by depressing the small pin in Flash hotshoe and using the guide number ring to control the aperture.. So the Autos S3 can easily compete with the Minolta 7sii on fully manual front...You cant do that on the Vivitar 35ES.. The Pc socket is a real issue for me. Now and again I do use studio strobes the Prinz and Vivitar you can forget. only the Prinz and Konica have a Pc socket. The battery cover on the Minolta Prinz and Vivitar are identical look inside the strange +ve pressure spring, they are all the same they are interchangeable. Now the battery cover for the Auto S3 is Plactic!.the battery connections are all inside the battery chamber of the Auto S3. I would say the Konica Auto S3 is better than the Vivitar 35ES.