For legacy lenses - NEX, Pen or Lumix?

[Dante_Stella]

I'll probably be on the Fuji X100 train (or still on the Leica M juggernaut) next spring (or whenever I finish thinning the amount of film equipment I have - way out of line with my free time).

If I wanted to reuse some Konica SLR lenses from the 1970s and some modern M lenses, which Micro 4/3 or NEX camera would you suggest? Assume that the major purpose is using old lenses, not anything really native M4/3.

The E-PL looks interesting both because it is cheap and because it's light. It also has stabilization. For that matter, the E-P1 could do the trick (and seems to be going for a song used on Ebay lately - which somehow doesn't surprise me).

The NEX (well, reportedly) has good high-iso performance and preserves more of the angle of view of the lenses (as well as the aspect ratio). But it lacks any type of accessory capability.

The Panasonics apparently are better as Micro 4/3 cameras (with a lot faster autofocus) but lack any kind stabilization in-body. They are also the most expensive of the bunch.

Has anyone used more than one or compared all of these? One thing that is difficult to gauge is whether accessory finders or EVFs are really beneficial for using lenses like a 57mm f/1.2.

[Brian Sweeney]

I went for the Olympus line because the Electronic Viewfinder is really good. I can use the camera screen with an Af lens, but manual focus- I always use the EVF. The adapters for the u43 are cheap on Ebay, and I picked up one for the Konica lenses- so far have only used my Konica 28/1.8 with the EP2.

Konica 28/1.8, wide-open and closest focus, hand-held on the EP2.

http://www.mu-43.com/gallery/data/957/berry_closeF18.jpg (http://www.mu-43.com/gallery/konica-uc-28-2f1-8/p8941-berry-closef18.html)

Focus using the Electronic Viewfinder.

Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.4, "NKT", Leica Thread Mount, wide-open and closest focus, on the EP2.

http://www.mu-43.com/gallery/data/919/medium/people.jpg (http://www.mu-43.com/gallery/nikkor-sc-5cm-f1-4-in-ltm-on-the-ep2/p6293-people.html)

Nice to be able to use the Nikkor LTM lenses at 18".

[kshapero]

I'll probably be on the Fuji X100 train (or still on the Leica M juggernaut) next spring (or whenever I finish thinning the amount of film equipment I have - way out of line with my free time).

If I wanted to reuse some Konica SLR lenses from the 1970s and some modern M lenses, which Micro 4/3 or NEX camera would you suggest? Assume that the major purpose is using old lenses, not anything really native M4/3.


The NEX (well, reportedly) has good high-iso performance and preserves more of the angle of view of the lenses (as well as the aspect ratio). But it lacks any type of accessory capability.

What accessory capability does it lack?

[jl-lb.ms]

The Lumix G1 is a steal now, $299 for the body: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-G1-12-1MP-Interchangeable-Digital/dp/B003BR8BE6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1291567209&sr=8-4

You can add an adapter for (expensive) $180 or so from Cameraquest, or cheap $40 from Fotodiox

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B002RJFD7C\ (http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B002RJFD7C)

I don't know if there's an appreciable difference between the Voigtlander adapter and the Fotodiox. I'd love to hear if someone else does.

[kshapero]

I went for the Olympus line because the Electronic Viewfinder is really good. I can use the camera screen with an Af lens, but manual focus- I always use the EVF. The adapters for the u43 are cheap on Ebay, and I picked up one for the Konica lenses- so far have only used my Konica 28/1.8 with the EP2.

Konica 28/1.8, wide-open and closest focus, hand-held on the EP2.

http://www.mu-43.com/gallery/data/957/berry_closeF18.jpg (http://www.mu-43.com/gallery/konica-uc-28-2f1-8/p8941-berry-closef18.html)

Focus using the Electronic Viewfinder.

Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.4, "NKT", Leica Thread Mount, wide-open and closest focus, on the EP2.

http://www.mu-43.com/gallery/data/919/medium/people.jpg (http://www.mu-43.com/gallery/nikkor-sc-5cm-f1-4-in-ltm-on-the-ep2/p6293-people.html)

Nice to be able to use the Nikkor LTM lenses at 18".Gosh, beautiful shots.

[Al Patterson]

The Lumix G1 is a steal now, $299 for the body: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-G1-12-1MP-Interchangeable-Digital/dp/B003BR8BE6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1291567209&sr=8-4

You can add an adapter for (expensive) $180 or so from Cameraquest, or cheap $40 from Fotodiox

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B002RJFD7C\ (http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B002RJFD7C)

I don't know if there's an appreciable difference between the Voigtlander adapter and the Fotodiox. I'd love to hear if someone else does.

I'd go for a G-1 at that price, were I in the market right now.

[kshapero]

The Lumix G1 is a steal now, $299 for the body: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-G1-12-1MP-Interchangeable-Digital/dp/B003BR8BE6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1291567209&sr=8-4

You can add an adapter for (expensive) $180 or so from Cameraquest, or cheap $40 from Fotodiox

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B002RJFD7C\ (http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B002RJFD7C)

I don't know if there's an appreciable difference between the Voigtlander adapter and the Fotodiox. I'd love to hear if someone else does.I have adapters from Rainbow Imaging ($30) and from CameraQuest. I can not tell the difference.

[ampguy]

Hi Dante, I'm in the same boat. I'm going to try to wait until the Nex prices come down, which looks to be soon. The sony site has both lenses with the nex 5 for $799, but I plan to use MF lenses only, and definitely would not want to use the kit zoom.

The u4/3 at $299 (GF1) and EPL1 at $399-$499 often with 2 lenses is certainly attractive, but if you pixel peep, or stop down, you'll see the u4/3 IQ is just not up there.

I follow a blog where a GF1 user posts weekly or so, and almost all of his shots are overly sharpened, and have diffraction, I think he stops down, and then uses sharpening in pp, but I have a high ppi monitor (wsxga+) on 14" giving > 130ppi and it's just horrible IQ.

[Dante_Stella]

No shoe for flash or EVF.

What accessory capability does it lack?

[FrozenInTime]

More than a year ago when it was launched, I went for the EP-1 and bought the Novoflex M mount adapter.
The results with M wides were disappointing ; worse or no better than the kit lenses, and the MF handling with long or fast lenses awkward.
I would have sold it long ago if the wonderful little panasonic 20 f/1.7 had not come along.

I have my hopes pinned on a high end APS sensor EVIL with EVF next year :
perhaps the Ricoh GXR M-mount ; Sony NEX7 or Pentax EVIL ....
Unless you have an immediate need or run across a bargain, it's going to be worth waiting rather than buying now.

[rickp]

if you're not into HD movies or touch screens, try the G1. you might find one for less $ than the external viewfinders for other models?

the voigtländer adapter to Leica M was a perfect match.

good luck with your choice

rick

example is G1 + 1946 hektor with extension tubes

[PCB_RF]

There are no bad choices in the bunch, the trick is determining which best meets your own needs, with the understanding that you almost always have to compromise. We're definitely in YMMV territory. I'd start by ranking the importance of the following factors/features:

1. EVF?
2. IBIS?
3. Crop factor?
4. High-ISO performance?
5. Legacy wide-angle lens corner performance?
6. External flash?
7. Video performance?
8. Compactness?
9. Handling?

If you need IBIS, Oly is your only choice. IBIS/EVF means EPL1/EP2, but you can't use EVF and external flash simultaneously, you've got the 2x crop factor and compromised legacy wide corner performance.

NEX gets the nod for lower crop factor, better legacy wide corners and best high-ISO performance. But there's no IBIS, EVF or external flash, and not everyone gets along with the interface.

Only internal-EVF Pana (everything but the GF1) has the ability to use EVF/flash simulataneously, and it's more compact than Oly with EVF. GH2 should have the best video, and the flip screen/touch screen can improve handling. No IBIS and the same m4/3 sensor and image compromises as Oly.

I think you'll need to play with all the cameras. You might really bond with one, hopefully you'll find something you can at least tolerate.

[usayit]

IBIS and EVF narrowed my choice to Olympus; Either E-PL1 or E-P2. IBIS is simply a nice thing to have with legacy lenses (M42 and M-mount). Chose the E-PL1 for the following reasons:

* Dedicated Magnification button
* My eyes liked the samples better. (http://www.imaging-resource.com has some)

I also have a G1 which are going for really low prices now. Good camera too...

[digitalintrigue]

I've owned G1, GH1; have used the Olympus models.

I sold the Panasonic in favor of a NEX5. The improved interface is better than the Oly interface, IMHO.

For my needs, flash was irrelevant, high ISO and 1.5x crop factor trumped image stabilization and EVF.

[kbg32]

Hi Dante, I'm in the same boat. I'm going to try to wait until the Nex prices come down, which looks to be soon. The sony site has both lenses with the nex 5 for $799, but I plan to use MF lenses only, and definitely would not want to use the kit zoom.

The u4/3 at $299 (GF1) and EPL1 at $399-$499 often with 2 lenses is certainly attractive, but if you pixel peep, or stop down, you'll see the u4/3 IQ is just not up there.

I follow a blog where a GF1 user posts weekly or so, and almost all of his shots are overly sharpened, and have diffraction, I think he stops down, and then uses sharpening in pp, but I have a high ppi monitor (wsxga+) on 14" giving > 130ppi and it's just horrible IQ.


That is how this person is processing his imagery. The Panasonic Gs have great IQ. I love the look of the Lumix files, but I only process RAW files. When the need is down and dirty, they can produce wonderful jpeg files.

I also don't see the point in shooting legacy lenses unless you really want to and have no other choice. I find the lenses that were designed for the M 4/3 system work best. I don't see any advantage to using legacy lenses unless you don't want to shell out the money for lenses designed for the system. I recently got the 14/2.5 Lumix lens and it is fantastic. This lens along with the GF1 body, I also use the accessory EVF finder, is truly coat pocketable.

[douglasf13]

Dante, the NEX series has an accessory port on top that accepts various accessories, and I assume there will be an EVF at some point.

For me, the crop factor and sensor performance was the biggest deal in me picking the NEX-5. If I do need to shoot at eye level, I use a Clearviewer, which works rather well as an EVF alternative, and folds nice and flat (and folds out of the way of the tilt lcd.) The camera's new firmware makes the UI much more usable, as well.

[hub]

Each time I wanted to try the NEX with the pancake and the optical Viewfinder I couldn't, because none of the Sony store did have it (apparently the idiot in management told them that unless customer to buy a viewfinder they wouldn't gonna get it) and they are the only one apparently carrying the camera here. That's how Sony lost a sale with me.

I went E-P1 instead. I miss the EVF though but also I use it with native lenses for now.

[Abbazz]

Hi Dante,

You have to try by yourself. I have tried Panasonic and Olympus M4/3 cameras, as well as Sony's Next series. The Sony cameras are nice and have a bigger sensor, but they are much to automated for my taste. The Panasonic have a few drawbacks (no auto rotation of images when using a legacy lens, no autofocus with 4/3 lenses, etc.), so I went for the Olympus EP-1. Best image quality (at least for out of camera images), built-in stabilizer, small and easy to use. The lack of a viewfinder doesn't bother me at all -- just think of it as a view camera, only smaller. For critical focus, I use a HoodLoupe (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/hoodloupe-3.shtml). Another advantage for M4/3 over Sony Next is that you can use cine lenses in C-Mount with a cheap adapter: lots of fun with these old Petzval and other exotic lenses.

Cheers!

Abbazz

[douglasf13]

If you shoot in PASM modes, nothing on the NEX is too automatic, and the new firmware allows good button customization. You can use C lenses as well, but you may have to crop in the raw converter if the vignetting is bad.

[digitalintrigue]

True, the smaller image circle may require cropping due to the larger APS sensor of the NEX. Then one would still end up with a ~2x crop factor but with a better sensor.

[Dante_Stella]

Yeah... I totally missed that port. Thought the pictures with the flash showed a built-in unit.

What I didn't miss was the massively fast frame rate on manual focus... the flip screen is actually pretty neat, too. Just waiting on a third-party NEX to standard hot shoe converter!

I have already ordered a Hexanon M43 adapter and will probably get an NEX one too to try out the various bodies.

Dante

Dante, the NEX series has an accessory port on top that accepts various accessories, and I assume there will be an EVF at some point.

For me, the crop factor and sensor performance was the biggest deal in me picking the NEX-5. If I do need to shoot at eye level, I use a Clearviewer, which works rather well as an EVF alternative, and folds nice and flat (and folds out of the way of the tilt lcd.) The camera's new firmware makes the UI much more usable, as well.

[Warren T.]

Hi Dante, I'm in the same boat. I'm going to try to wait until the Nex prices come down, which looks to be soon. The sony site has both lenses with the nex 5 for $799, but I plan to use MF lenses only, and definitely would not want to use the kit zoom.

The u4/3 at $299 (GF1) and EPL1 at $399-$499 often with 2 lenses is certainly attractive, but if you pixel peep, or stop down, you'll see the u4/3 IQ is just not up there.

I follow a blog where a GF1 user posts weekly or so, and almost all of his shots are overly sharpened, and have diffraction, I think he stops down, and then uses sharpening in pp, but I have a high ppi monitor (wsxga+) on 14" giving > 130ppi and it's just horrible IQ.

Ted, please PM me the link because I'm curious to see what you're looking at (or is it my blog you're referring to?)

thanks,

warren

[Jamie Pillers]

Dante,
I was over at the local camera store fiddling with a NEX 5 camera. It does have an accessory port, and the salesman told me what I've also read on the web: Sony will be selling an accessory EVF for the NEX cameras early next year. The accessory port is located under the flap on the top of the camera and is the same port you'd plug their flash into. So if you're using the EVF, you wouldn't be able to use a flash, and vice versa.
Jamie

[hub]

Dante,
I was over at the local camera store fiddling with a NEX 5 camera. It does have an accessory port, and the salesman told me what I've also read on the web: Sony will be selling an accessory EVF for the NEX cameras early next year. The accessory port is located under the flap on the top of the camera and is the same port you'd plug their flash into. So if you're using the EVF, you wouldn't be able to use a flash, and vice versa.
Jamie

To be honest, Sony missed a sale with me since they didn't even have the optical viewfinder for me to try in their Sony Style store - unless I wanted to buy it -. So I wouldn't bet on the EVF until it actually is available. But that's just me.

[douglasf13]

Sony Style stores aren't great for camera buying. They rarely have much camera equipment at all. You'd probably be better off at a real camera store. I wouldn't let a retail employee affect your camera buying decisions.

[hub]

Sony Style stores aren't great for camera buying. They rarely have much camera equipment at all. You'd probably be better off at a real camera store. I wouldn't let a retail employee affect your camera buying decisions.

And the one I went to don't have it. They only carry PowerShot. But it does not matter, I have an E-P1 and am very happy with it.

[blacvios]

+1 for Panasonic G1 solid EVF

Combine with good glass, this is what you get. No that sharp but good enough.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/5206885212_d86d8db78f_b.jpg

You want crisp sharpness, need to up a level, CZ T* to be exact
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2622/4231230040_552c8160a6_o.jpg
,,,

[GoneSavage]

I have and E-P2 and have shot manual focus lenses with it almost exclusively for almost a year now. Here are my thoughts:

- the viewfinder is fantastic. Focusing a 35/1.2 or 50/1.4 presents no problems.
- the viewfinder is necessary. The olympus screens are not a high enough resolution to reliably focus fast lenses wide open without using the magnify function.
- ergonomics are below average. I find the grip of the E-PL1 to be much more comfortable with heavier lenses (the E-P2 is fine with small m4/3 lenses though)
- iso performance is acceptable, but not outstanding.

Overall, my only serious complaint is with the sensor size. After using an m4/3 camera for a year, I've started to notice a "cropped" look in almost all of my images that is very unsatisfying. There is a certain harshness in the rendering of an m4/3 image that I don't see from larger sensor formats: even when shooting fast lenses wide open, the depth of field seems unnatural and uninviting. This has been bothering me a lot lately.

[gekopaca]

• The nex is the worst because it's hideous, there's no finder, and the menu interface is silly. You might buy that one only if you really need use your lenses wider as possible.
• The pen seems to be intersting because the cheap price, the look, and the I.S., but they are not :
- The additional EVF is really expensive, then the total price is ≥ Lumix GF1,
- About the look like, in few months you will find new (Panasonic, Ricoh, Epson, Oly?) "Leica like" M43 cameras on the market,
- With M43 cameras you need to shoot always in RAW, in order to correct eventually the weak dynamic range (specialy in high light), and you can use a lot of really fast lenses : that's why image stabilization never need to be used.
• Panasonic offers (currently) the most important choice of M43 cameras, and the second-hand market is pretty intersting for two of them :
- the G1, the oldest model. It's complete (viewfinder and very good 14-45 kit lens), but no video.
- the GH1, IMO the best one, could have a hacked firmware (GH13) making it a video killer, but its price is shuting down because the GH2 was just released.
About the GF1, it's a very good camera, but new models coming soon will make it very old.

Conclusion : I'm really agree with Gone Savage about the "cropped" look of M43 pictures, and the unsatisfying feeling.
That's why I think it's an interesting format only if :
- you shoot rather closely, with very very fast lenses (because of DOF)
- You use lenses you have already,
- you like video capabilities of that sort of hybrid cameras
- you have got an other "major" camera (In my case an Epson R-D1) to keep pleasure about photography.

[pvdhaar]

• The nex is the worst because it's hideous, there's no finder, and the menu interface is silly..
The bad rep of the NEX menu interface isn't entirely deserved. It's not so bad in my view; it's just very, very different from what most are used to.

Sure, I was also confused initially by the menus and lack of dials. But after a week, I'm starting to see the logic about the clustering of menu items and the way the items are 'sticky' to the central button and control wheel. I've found it's 'magically' always the most crucial setting for each mode or for switching between modes. I'm not entirely certain that what I've set in the menus actually influences what's tied to the control buttons at that point, but it does feel like that. Still, it doesn't hurt to go through all the menu options and set them to match your shooting style. I guess that most prospective buyers don't have the time to go through this process when handling the NEX for a couple of minutes in a shop.

As for the lack of finders, there's one (optical) for the 16mm. I've no clue whether an EVF is in the works or even possible; the electrical connections in the accessory port now drives the flash. Maybe it can do more than that. I'm not sure if I'd get an EVF though. One of the main attractions of the m4/3 EVF's is that they can tilt so that you can shoot with the camera below eye level. The NEX has a up/down tilting LCD to do things like that.

[berlincontemporary]

I have both Panasonic GF1 and a Sony NEX.

The GF1 wins in handling but the tight crop factor that will (sort of...) turn a 35mm lens into a 70 (!) is a deal breaker for me. I am using the GF1 with the Panasonic 20/1.7 and this combo is sweet. Its not sweet with vintage lenses.

Now the lesser crop factor is where the NEX wins and it does affect every focal length, not just wide angle lenses. I agree to the statement that the menu system is *different*, it´s not awkward though, pretty usable once you figured out how it works. No big deal, so dont let the "bad menu" talk stop you from trying one.

Preset AUTO ISO and all you could want is accessible with one button. There is also one dedicated (!) manual assist button that magnifies the center of the screen. This is essential for manual focus lenses and works fine.

The tiltable LCD is also a nice feature missing on the GF1.

On the other M43 cameras I cant comment. The bigger Pannies are butt-ugly and the crop factor problem applies to any of them.

[kevinparis]

any discussion about what camera is best has to be balanced against what photos you aspire to take.

I own an e-p1, a e-510 and a canon 5r mk2... I take photos for my own pleasure.. i dont pretend or aspire to be a 'professional' photographer.
each camera has its own use... i choose the camera to meet the occasion.... e-p1 for street and everyday, 510 for events and 5D for well... not sure i have grown into that yet.

I use lots of lenses from the finest Leica and contax to native lenses on all platforms... all work in the right context

there will always be new cameras coming along... but i will bet that none will ever be gamechangers...unless geckopaca has an inside ear beyond the rumour sites then his dreams will remain that.

for those of you who get annoyed at the 2x crop... then go buy something else... otherwise learn to work with the tools you have and actually take photos not gripe about them.

in the end its what other people think about the photo thats important not you

[douglasf13]

I like the NEX-5 with rangefinder glass so much that I sold my fullframe DSLR. For those that need an EVF, the Clearviewer works great with the Sony's high res LCD. It's a great find for $50.

[bigeye]

Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be a completely practical solution. The M9 has been out a year and the NEX and Sony Alpha signal what will come.

I'm still waiting for no crop factor constraint, not from an IQ standpoint (APS quality is fine for these camera's purpose), but from the offset in focal length. I am content with my old lenses.

All I want to do is swap film for a sensor, please keep away the DVD controls. A digital M3... the M9. I guess the solution is not to wait for the copycats, but to work harder...

- Charlie

[j j]

I went for a Samsung NX100. I wanted an APS C sensor and the 30mm f2 appealed. I intended to use legacy lenses, but the 30mm is so good I have used that all the time and kept my legacy lenses on the film cameras. Very happy with my choice.

[Benjamin Marks]

Dante: I use the EP-2 with the Konica AR lenses and the EFV. In fact, I picked up four of these lenses for about $50 each -- I think the guy who sold them to me thought he was ripping me off. But they are fantastic lenses; absolute stunners.

I went with the Oly because of in-body IS and availability of the EVF. I think I would have chosen the NEX if they had had an EVF, but with increasingly middle-aged eyes, chimping with anything other than an ultra-wide just won't work, and I can't focus a 40/1.8, a 50/1.4 or that amazing 57/1.2 wide open at arms' length. Notwithstanding the NEX's large chip and reputed high ISO performance, its mesh of ergonomics, the laws of optics and the age of my eye-balls killed it dead. The Oly in-body IS mitigates the high-ISO trade off somewhat. Keep in mind that almost all the lenses I use on it are manual focus. I only use one AF lens on the thing: the 17/2.8, and that rarely. Available adapters allow use of Pentax screw-mount, Konica AR, Leica M, R, LTM, Nikon-S, Contax, Nikon F-mount, you name it.

Ben Marks

[Edit: actually it is Konica AR lenses]

[Dante_Stella]

It ended up being the NEX - because I found that the Retina-style display was actually good enough to focus fairly sharply. And being able to assume a triangular support on the camera with the screen flipped up makes things very, very stable.

Detailed writeup here: http://www.dantestella.com/technical/nex.html

The M-Hexanon lenses work amazingly on this camera. Still waiting on an AR adapter, but it's winter here...

Best,
Dante

[kshapero]

No shoe for flash or EVF.
fair enough, but I haven't needed a flash yet what with the NEX's excellent High ISO IQ. The EVF is definitely not needed. The LCD is just plain awesome.

[kshapero]

I like the NEX-5 with rangefinder glass so much that I sold my fullframe DSLR. For those that need an EVF, the Clearviewer works great with the Sony's high res LCD. It's a great find for $50.Maybe so but I have no trouble using the NEX LCD as is. Plus this Clearveiwer looks cumbersome, but to each their own.

[ampguy]

Great review!!

It's interesting how many great things initially get terrible reviews ...

It ended up being the NEX - because I found that the Retina-style display was actually good enough to focus fairly sharply. And being able to assume a triangular support on the camera with the screen flipped up makes things very, very stable.

Detailed writeup here: http://www.dantestella.com/technical/nex.html

The M-Hexanon lenses work amazingly on this camera. Still waiting on an AR adapter, but it's winter here...

Best,
Dante

[kuzano]

I have an E-PL1, but I kept my Olympus E-420. Now the 420 is a standard 4/3 mount, but all the adaptors for all legacy glass were out in the standard mount before it was out in m4/3.

So, all my legacy glass has mounts for 4/3.

I also now notice that the E420 is only marginally bigger than the Pen m4/3 cameras.

With the 420 (which can be had low-count for $150 approx) I have a built in EVF, magnifiable live view, good ergonomics, a more substantial flash, scene modes and art filters per Pen, etc.

Granted, it does not have IBIS, but I could cure that buy replacing it with an E520, or for the latest image processing image the E620. The E520 can be found for around $200-225.

I guess I'm having a bit of trouble here with the fixation/obsession over the micro mount.

Also, the 420 is 10 MP, and the 620 would be 12, same as current M4/3 in Oly.

The images here show the small difference between the two bodies, and again the E620 would be almost identical in size comps. Furthermore it seems like the E420 would be a less expensive match in all ways for the G1, and the E620 would update the technology AND add IBIS.

Surprised at the willingness to rule out the original 4/3 standard.

Yes... the Pen's are cute, but mine's getting used alongside the E420 and slowly losing sway, particularly since the Olympus HG and SHG glass handles better on the E-X20 bodies.

Another aspect of this has also been mentioned. Olympus has the advantage of native lenses that often outshoot most legacy glass out there, according to posts seen often on this subject.

[ampguy]

the tiny sensor of the 4/3... I can't see any images?? ;)

I have an E-PL1, but I kept my Olympus E-420. Now the 420 is a standard 4/3 mount, but all the adaptors for all legacy glass were out in the standard mount before it was out in m4/3.

So, all my legacy glass has mounts for 4/3.

I also now notice that the E420 is only marginally bigger than the Pen m4/3 cameras.

With the 420 (which can be had low-count for $150 approx) I have a built in EVF, magnifiable live view, good ergonomics, a more substantial flash, scene modes and art filters per Pen, etc.

Granted, it does not have IBIS, but I could cure that buy replacing it with an E520, or for the latest image processing image the E620. The E520 can be found for around $200-225.

I guess I'm having a bit of trouble here with the fixation/obsession over the micro mount.

Also, the 420 is 10 MP, and the 620 would be 12, same as current M4/3 in Oly.

The images here show the small difference between the two bodies, and again the E620 would be almost identical in size comps.

[kuzano]

the tiny sensor of the 4/3... I can't see any images?? ;)

I thought I had the images ready to post. finally made it.

[douglasf13]

Maybe so but I have no trouble using the NEX LCD as is. Plus this Clearveiwer looks cumbersome, but to each their own.

It's really not cumbersome at all, and it folds out of the way for tilting the screen. It's great for wide aperture shooting when you don't want to take the time to focus zoom. Worth the $50 IMO.

[Dante_Stella]

Is the main part of that magnifier metal or plastic? And is the premium lens AR coated?

Thanks!
Dante

It's really not cumbersome at all, and it folds out of the way for tilting the screen. It's great for wide aperture shooting when you don't want to take the time to focus zoom. Worth the $50 IMO.

[douglasf13]

The Clearviewer is made out of a lightweigt, but sturdy plastic, and I don't believe the premium lens is multicoated. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer an EVF option, but I've been using the cheapie Clearviewer quite a bit.

[ampguy]

The clearviewer is tempting for me, but I'm not sure it will be what I've found I need to get used to, which is being able to see the screen easily and focus mf lenses accurately, but consciously noting that I have to fire the shutter when the subject is in sharp focus, I can't move the camera back or forward while waiting for the 'decisive moment'

It's refreshing to use this camera, because in a way, it's very retro, in that you are presented with only a signle plane of sharp focus, the way things were meant to be. None of this hokey pokey dof, scale focus silly stuff.

[vidgamer]

The bad rep of the NEX menu interface isn't entirely deserved. It's not so bad in my view; it's just very, very different from what most are used to.


I think this it, mostly. They tried some new ideas for the interface, and those looking for the same, traditional approach immediately had a problem with it. In actuality, the lack of external buttons isn't as severe as first reported. The UI has some odd quirks, but lack of buttons isn't high on my list of them.

You also have to wonder how much of the complaints were due to reviewers wanting to cycle through the same options over and over -- for example, to test ISO, you set it to 200 then 400 then 800, etc., forcing one to dive into the menu each time. Without the latest firmware, you did have to make a few keypresses to get there. Under normal circumstances, I submit that you'd use a few extra keypresses, set it, then forget it for a while, as that was the change you wanted to make for a given situation. Although, with the new firmware, I have to admit that I set ISO to the lower button. :)


Sure, I was also confused initially by the menus and lack of dials. But after a week, I'm starting to see the logic about the clustering of menu items and the way the items are 'sticky' to the central button and control wheel. I've found it's 'magically' always the most crucial setting for each mode or for switching between modes. I'm not entirely certain that what I've set in the menus actually influences what's tied to the control buttons at that point, but it does feel like that. Still, it doesn't hurt to go through all the menu options and set them to match your shooting style. I guess that most prospective buyers don't have the time to go through this process when handling the NEX for a couple of minutes in a shop.


Most buyers probably will really like the UI fine. It does seem more P&S-like.

And yet, I have no problem accessing all of the manual controls.


As for the lack of finders, there's one (optical) for the 16mm. I've no clue whether an EVF is in the works or even possible; the electrical connections in the accessory port now drives the flash. Maybe it can do more than that. I'm not sure if I'd get an EVF though. One of the main attractions of the m4/3 EVF's is that they can tilt so that you can shoot with the camera below eye level. The NEX has a up/down tilting LCD to do things like that.

I would like an EVF for some situations, but the LCD is fine most of the time. The large size and high res is appealing. I figure if Sony ever comes out with one, it'll probably be more than I'd want to pay. :bang:

[Dante_Stella]

www.jtec-online.com (http://www.jtec-online.com) has a screw-in cold shoe.

Dante

There is no hot shoe to put on my own accessory finder.

While they make a finder for the pancake, it is very hard to put on and remove.

That whole door setup is a little nightmare. It is there because of the shape of the camera, and SONY's desire to make the body very small, but it is way too fussy, and mechanically ugly/sloppy.

I find that little door awful, but otherwise I like the camera. I also own a GF1 and bought the NEX specifically for panorama shots.

An accessory flash on a little camera, well OK, but fussy. I like the flash on the GF 1 much better.

[vidgamer]

www.jtec-online.com (http://www.jtec-online.com) has a screw-in cold shoe.


Wow! I think that'll be helpful...

[black macleod]

I have an E-PL1, but I kept my Olympus E-420. Now the 420 is a standard 4/3 mount, but all the adaptors for all legacy glass were out in the standard mount before it was out in m4/3.

So, all my legacy glass has mounts for 4/3.

I also now notice that the E420 is only marginally bigger than the Pen m4/3 cameras.

With the 420 (which can be had low-count for $150 approx) I have a built in EVF, magnifiable live view, good ergonomics, a more substantial flash, scene modes and art filters per Pen, etc.

Granted, it does not have IBIS, but I could cure that buy replacing it with an E520, or for the latest image processing image the E620. The E520 can be found for around $200-225.

I guess I'm having a bit of trouble here with the fixation/obsession over the micro mount.



For me its not about the mount per se, but the mirrorless option. A lot of my wide angle LTM glass and my Contax G glass simply won't work on a camera with any kind of mirror inside, unless I want to hear crunchy noises :D

I've yet to purchase anything yet .. I was on the fence between an EPL1 and a Nex 3 or 5, but reading here about the lack of viewfinder will probably push me towards the Oly.

[FPjohn]

Originally Posted by Dante_Stella
www.jtec-online.com has a screw-in cold shoe.


Wow! I think that'll be helpful...

Fits the Nex 5 but not the Nex 3 as I found to my chagrin.:mad:

yours
FPJ

[Kent]

Originally Posted by Dante_Stella
www.jtec-online.com has a screw-in cold shoe.




Fits the Nex 5 but not the Nex 3 as I found to my chagrin.:mad:

yours
FPJ

Hey, that's really some useful information. Thanks!
I was about to order one for me NEX-3...