Young people turning to film

[Nick De Marco]

I am always happy when I see young photographers give up digital and turn to film
I remember attending Photokina 2008, wanting my first touch of the Canon 5DII, peering enviously at Leica's new S2, but being most excited by the Lomography stall which was staffed by and aimed at young people, blazing slogans like "Analogue is the future!" "Digital is dead" etc.

Since then I have noticed more and more young people, those keen on photography and not just consumers, turning to film. Today I was in a photography cafe in London and got talking to a young guy I have seen in there before with his DSLR. Now he shoots only film. Like me, he had an M8, and sold it. So he could buy an M6. He bought a GF1, and sold it, so he could buy some film. He is a totally dedicated photographer and only works in colour but only film satisfies him.

I feel the same way more and more. I'm old enough to have started out in film, but it was digital that got me back in to photography when I was able to afford it. Having had and used quite a few digital cameras I now find I increasingly only reach for them for specialist work (e.g. studio), or almost as an 'exposure meter' to check what I'm doing with a meterless Hasselblad for instance.

It is very pleasing to see young people who never grow up with film and certainly can't be termed as dinosaurs turning to the medium.

Big thanks should go to Voigtlander by the way, and our own stephen Gandy, for popularising good quality, modern film cameras and lenses which are more affordable to students

[gnosduh]

I just wrote a thread about this on Photo.net and it turned into a total s**t storm of arguments.

Here's some of what I posted:

If you haven't experienced the proof, check out flickr groups like I Shoot Film (http://www.flickr.com/groups/ishootfilm/)(over 50,000 members and 1.4 million photos at time of checking) and Film Is Not Dead (http://www.flickr.com/groups/film_is_not_dead/) (18,000 members and almost 700,000 photos). Places like the blog my friend runs, Tokyo Camera Style (http://tokyocamerastyle.com/) are rife with young people carrying around 20 year old P&S classics like the Konica Big Mini, Olympus XA, and Leica, Minolta, and Mamiya (645) rangefinders.

[Stuart John]

Yep and then the thread was closed. Which was somewhat dissapointing.

[gnuyork]

I feel much the same way. I spent a small fortune on my first and only DSLR back around 2004 (Canon 1D MkII). I have used a few before then including the Canon D30 (?), the 10D, and the original 1D. I embraced Digital pretty heavily and learned how to shoot with those cameras, edit in Photoshop, and make very nice Epson prints. Shortly before that I bought a used 4x5 filed camera and an old Kodak lens. I dabbled with that a little, but the newness of digital still had me seduced and that's what I mainly concentrated on.

After a while, this started to be less of a challenge and I found myself wanting to go back to shooting film. I have several film cameras, but wanted a rangefinder. I bought a couple of used Canonnets on Ebay. Then I purchased a couple of Diana cameras, and a modified Holga, then some pinhole cameras. Then 2 years ago I found a great deal on an M6 on Ebay, and then purchased a used Summicron 50 at KEH.

A friend of mine (my retired photo professor) gave me a freezer full of film recently, as well as two top notch enlargers - a Bessler that does 4x5, and a Leica Focomat with auto focus as well as enough paper and chemistry to last me quite a while (even Ilfochrome chemicals and paper).

So needless to say I have a lot of film, plenty of film cameras, some nice darkroom equipment and no excuses.

My goal is to get this set up in the new year and make some traditional darkroom prints. I used to do this in college and it was a pure joy for me.

Some snaps of my freezer - incidentally shot with a digital P&S...

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer2.jpg

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer3.jpg

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer4.jpg

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer5.jpg

[John Lawrence]

I often frequent a camera shop that deals only in film cameras and related paraphernalia and business is booming. The owner is selling more and more cameras to young people and has been requested by local colleges to supply them with film cameras for their photography courses.

John

[keytarjunkie]

I am 19 years old. My first camera, when I was in 1st grade, was a digital camera. I never picked up a film camera until I was 16, my dad's old pentax spotmatic F. He didn't want me wasting money on film when I had a perfectly nice Nikon digital SLR (a D50), but I preferred film to digital then. Even now, I have a very nice Nikon digital SLR and weeks go by without me using it. I'll really only pick it up for sports, concerts, and the occasional portrait. Everything else is film - I'm now using a Leica M2, a Yashica T4, and a Pentax 6x7. Couldn't be happier. Digital definitely has its uses, but I prefer working with film.

[pvdhaar]

I just wrote a thread about this on Photo.net and it turned into a total s**t storm of arguments.


That's why I gave up on p.net; it's no fun anymore. Hasn't been since digital made a real impact in 2005 for that matter. Some of the moderators go berserk when anyone says they like film. Well, OK, you can say you like film.. as long as you make clear in the same sentence that digital is superior :eek: I'm gravitating back towards film myself again, and I can do without the bad vibes p.net is radiating.. There's more fun to be had going out with the XA2 and snapping random stuff :cool:

[Stuart John]

p net gets a bits messed up every now and then but most of the time it's not so bad. There are issues with p net though. Most threads about film somehow get deleted these days.

[sepiareverb]

Since pretty much everyone has a computer, and setting up a darkroom is not within most people's means I don't see a huge rush to film. I teach photo at a college, and while my classes are always full I only get one student a year who dives into film beyond that semester or two.

[pobe]

I'm closing in on 30, do I still count as being young? Anyway, while I still shoot digital I love using film. Partly because I like to use old cameras, but it's also about the smell of chemicals, the wait-to-see-if-I-nailed-it instead of the instant-gratification-lcd and the great feeling when you pull out a roll from the tank and watch the pictures that have magically appeared. I might be wrong, but something tells me that feeling even though it might fade will never go away.

I haven't been long in the rangefinder game, but I've fallen in love with it. If I could afford an M9 I'd probably get one. I've been toying with the idea to save for a cheaper digital RF (I think I'd be annoyed by the crop), but even if I got one I'm quite sure I'd still shoot the odd roll of film...

[unixrevolution]

I grew up in the film era (I'm 28 and 4 days, happy birthday to me!), but I didn't get into photography until the digital era had already been going. I bought a used K1000 to learn on before I got a DSLR. I still have and love my K10D Digital, and it's very, very useful for many things, but I adore film and film cameras. I'm glad I'm not alone.

[shadowfox]

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer2.jpg


Now *that* is a healthy film-freezer :D :)

[tom.w.bn]

It's always about being cool for younger people. When all people still had film cameras then the first digital users were cool. The first DSLR was cool. The first FF DSLR was cool. Now everybody has a DSLR or FF DSLR. What's cool now... going back to film.

[Mikeds80]

I got into film because it was the cheapest way to get a FF SLR and wide angle lenses. My 35mm nikon ended up being far more enjoyable to use than my canon DSLR and has pretty much usurped the throne. With that said, I also think film is just really neat in general and have a FSU RF on the way (fingers crossed that it actually works!)

[daveleo]

i love the convenience of digital photography as much as anyone, and will continue to use my Nikon, Leica and Panasonic digitals, but i have rediscovered film photography and have been using my film cameras and even bought a "new" Fuji GS645.
this rediscovered world of taking care BEFORE your hit that shutter button is just like the "good old days" and i am loving it.

i'm also setting up a basement darkroom (a totally new experience for me ! )

film is dead . . . . like acoustic music and painting and writing are dead :rolleyes:

[dave lackey]

I agree with the observation of young people back into film. I sold my Bessa-R with 35mm f2.5 Color Skopar to a local photography student (I wanted to buy an M-mount body) and she told me that it was the trend now for students in art colleges to be only shooting film. If they need digital, they've got their phones.


Ah-ha!

Now there it is, the death of the digital SLR is nigh... all due to the cellphone revolution! Film is alive, it is alive, IT IS ALIVE! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,.... only the Shadow knows and he is not talking...:D

Seriously, this is really a cool turn of events, the younger folks in art schools shooting film and only needing digital when they use their cell phones...:)

Silver is better!

[dtcls100]

Now *that* is a healthy film-freezer :D :)

Better use up that Kodachrome 64 quick! Dwayne's Photo -- the only place in the world still processing Kodachrome -- is going to stop processing the stuff by year end. So if you wait much longer, you won't have any way of processing the film. Kodachrome processing is very involved and cannot be done at home BTW.

[pobe]

I currently work as a music teacher at a school. Today a kid looked at my Canon P and said "Is that a REAL camera? Cool!". :)

[gnuyork]

Better use up that Kodachrome 64 quick! Dwayne's Photo -- the only place in the world still processing Kodachrome -- is going to stop processing the stuff by year end. So if you wait much longer, you won't have any way of processing the film. Kodachrome processing is very involved and cannot be done at home BTW.

Yes, I know. Kodachrome is all I've been shooting lately. Once Kodak made the announcement, I scrambled to find some, this was actually not very easy, but then when I did (at freestyle) I ordered a bunch to save for special projects. Well then Dwayne's made their announcement and so bottom line that's all I've been shooting lately, and unfortunately I am not shooting anything special with it. Just trying to use it up.

[ElectroWNED]

As a 24 year old film-only user, I can't help but feel a little guilty or ashamed that this film-resurgence is simply the result of people doing something because it is trendy.

[jarski]

for film fans: "Inside Analogue Photo Radio" podcasts ;)

[LeicaFan]

As a 24 year old film-only user, I can't help but feel a little guilty or ashamed that this film-resurgence is simply the result of people doing something because it is trendy.

If you haven't noticed, photography as a whole is trendy right now.

[Neare]

As a 24 year old film-only user, I can't help but feel a little guilty or ashamed that this film-resurgence is simply the result of people doing something because it is trendy.

Perhaps, but I am 21 years old, I shoot film and I certainly didn't start photography (or using film for that matter) and invest $$$ into it because I thought it was trendy.

But I can see your point - that's why a Lomo camera can get marketed for $200.

[Mikeds80]

I wouldn't worry about the trendy folks, they never last. They will give it a try, probably realize that it isn't for them, and drop it after a few months. If any of them realize that they genuinely enjoy working with film and stick with it, well then thats awesome. I've only recently gotten into film, for reasons mentioned in an earlier post, but it seems to be a nice fit for me.

Edit: Actually I started with a 35mm camera my dad passed down to me several years ago. I used it for a few months until I could no longer afford film and development costs. Then I saved up my money and got a DSLR. I had been using that until I started to outgrow it earlier this year. My options were to drop over a grand and upgrade my body (no way that was going to happen) Or I could get a used but modern SLR and a cheap scanner. I ended up going the film rout and all is going well.

[wolfpeterson]

I've been shooting since 17 (now 23) and I've owned maybe 10-12 film cameras and only one digital. And to be honest, the reason I'm sticking with film is for preservation. HDD failure is something I'm majorly afraid of, it's happened to me a few times in the past, thankfully not with digital images on it. But really, an analog archive might even outlive me, at 23, but who knows if computers in 15 years will read these ridiculous proprietary RAW formats.

I chose to avoid the LOMO crowd, because it is to me simply a trend hop: like all fashions coming back every 10-15 years, people adopt LOMO cameras and film as "retro", ie not contemporary tools but a vestige of the past. So the main focus with this style of "retro photography" is for it to look like film. We can also see this trend in iPhone apps that make square images with vignetting and warped colors to imitate holga photos...

Truth is that film can be even better at reproduction than digital in most cases. But I feel that when people cross-process, or use cheap plastic cameras to accentuate the "vintageness" of film, it cheapens it people's eyes.

Anyway, I'm getting pretentious and ranty, so I will just say that I have and will always prefer film.

[LeicaFan]

I've been shooting since 17 (now 23) and I've owned maybe 10-12 film cameras and only one digital. And to be honest, the reason I'm sticking with film is for preservation. HDD failure is something I'm majorly afraid of, it's happened to me a few times in the past, thankfully not with digital images on it. But really, an analog archive might even outlive me, at 23, but who knows if computers in 15 years will read these ridiculous proprietary RAW formats.

SSD = problem solved

[wolfpeterson]

SSD = problem solved

I know that SSDs are supposed to last longer, but my main point was to celebrate the long life of well preserved negatives.

Digital images do not exist in real space so it's hard for me to trust they will last. SSDs are still succeptible to techincal failure too.

[LeicaFan]

I know that SSDs are supposed to last longer, but my main point was to celebrate the long life of well preserved negatives.

Digital images do not exist in real space so it's hard for me to trust they will last. SSDs are still succeptible to techincal failure too.

What are the chances of SSD failure? Slim (at best). Personally, I save my digital images onto my SSD, back them up to my HDD, and save them on a DVD. There is probably a better chance of you misplacing/destroying your negatives than there is of me losing my images.

But I can appreciate your point of view. :)

[wolfpeterson]

What are the chances of SSD failure? Slim (at best). Personally, I save my digital images onto my SSD, back them up to my HDD, and save them on a DVD. There is probably a better chance of you misplacing/destroying your negatives than there is of me losing my images.

But I can appreciate your point of view. :)

Let us agree to disagree :D.

I'd like to see people's pros/cons of young people getting into film:

[Neare]

What are the chances of SSD failure? Slim (at best). Personally, I save my digital images onto my SSD, back them up to my HDD, and save them on a DVD. There is probably a better chance of you misplacing/destroying your negatives than there is of me losing my images.

But I can appreciate your point of view. :)

If a freak fault doesn't kill it (as you said, unlikely), time will. That is guaranteed. You can transfer to another again and again, but when you don't care to do it anymore how do you know anyone else will? And then poof!

End of the day, film photography is something that is physical, Digital is not. It is simply a computers interpretation of the scene in front of it and then it converts it into numbers. Software then makes a image out of that. I absolutely hate that idea, I didn't want to take pictures that were nothing more than air. And I'll testify to that, of the 1000s of photos I took when I originally started photography on digital, only 5 still exist. Only 5 and they are in good ol' average flickr quality. While it is true that I deleted many so it is my fault, at the time you never think about it. Now when I look back to see how I've progressed as a photography, quite a large portion of my own growth doesn't exist, or perhaps never really did.
But my film negs are all alive, the good shots and the bad and anyone can see them, hold them and appreciate a 'real' interpretation of the light that made that photograph.

[LeicaFan]

Let us agree to disagree :D.

I'd like to see people's pros/cons of young people getting into film:

I think that lots of younger people are getting into film photography because 1. it's cheap (well, it can be) and 2. they think that as long as you use film, you will get that vintage, cross processed look.

I think that's why lomography is so popular. It doesn't really bother me, though. it's just a fad that will probably die out in a couple of years.

If a freak fault doesn't kill it (as you said, unlikely), time will. That is guaranteed. You can transfer to another again and again, but when you don't care to do it anymore how do you know anyone else will? And then poof!

And when you don't care to take care of your negatives anymore, nobody will either. The argument goes both ways...

End of the day, film photography is something that is physical, Digital is not. It is simply a computers interpretation of the scene in front of it and then it converts it into numbers. Software then makes a image out of that. I absolutely hate that idea, I didn't want to take pictures that were nothing more than air. And I'll testify to that, of the 1000s of photos I took when I originally started photography on digital, only 5 still exist. Only 5 and they are in good ol' average flickr quality. While it is true that I deleted many so it is my fault, at the time you never think about it. Now when I look back to see how I've progressed as a photography, quite a large portion of my own growth doesn't exist, or perhaps never really did.
But my film negs are all alive, the good shots and the bad and anyone can see them, hold them and appreciate a 'real' interpretation of the light that made that photograph.

Not sure if you thought that I was trying to say that digital is better. Both have their pros and cons, but I agree with what you said. Film photography is much more romantic.

[Neare]

I'm just giving film a plug mate ;)

[jonmanjiro]

Not sure if these two girls shot digital before converting to film, but when I met them at MAP Camera in Tokyo a few months back they the both enthusiastically said "I love film" :)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5025401603_d6cda8cacf_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonmanjiro/5025401603/)
Film girls at MAP Camera, Shinjuku - Nikkor-O 2.1cm 1:4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonmanjiro/5025401603/) by jonmanjiro (http://www.flickr.com/people/jonmanjiro/), on Flickr

[LeicaFan]

Not sure if these two girls shot digital before converting to film, but when I met them at MAP Camera in Tokyo a few months back they the both enthusiastically said "I love film" :)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5025401603_d6cda8cacf_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonmanjiro/5025401603/)
Film girls at MAP Camera, Shinjuku - Nikkor-O 2.1cm 1:4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonmanjiro/5025401603/) by jonmanjiro (http://www.flickr.com/people/jonmanjiro/), on Flickr

Going to Japan is what got me into photography. I went on a family vacation and prior to leaving, I wanted to buy a nice camera so I could take some nice pictures. Long story short, I bought a Nikon D60.

Now that I look back, I get depressed when I think of the tons of camera shops that I didn't walk into. I was impressed by all the new stuff at the big electronic stores, but none of that matters to me now. I wonder what kind of gems I could have found at the smaller places, used places. :(

[Dave Wilkinson]

I'm just glad to see youngsters getting interested in photography!, recently for old tmes sake - I shot a roll in a camera from my fifty plus year collection, sent it away for dev. then scanned and printed a few images, afterwards I sat down and said to my self - 'what the f#*k am I doing this again - for!', then I got my wife to give my ass a good kick, and get my DSLR out of the cabinet!.....your mileage not only may vary, of course! - but vehemently will!, but this old codger's in the twentyfirst century:D;)

[tokek]

It is more about wishful thinking ........a niche group in a tiny nook of the world

[LeicaFan]

What I'm really wondering is, will film die?

A large majority of the people who use film are people who grew up with film and are too comfortable (or maybe too stubborn :D) to switch to digital. Once that generation dies out, who will want to use film? A small niche market like tokek pointed out? Or do some of you believe that there will be a resurgence?

[tokek]

The old film brigade is getting web savvy and posting about film and some of the younger brigade are curious enough for a quick dabble

[excellent]

The Lomo store here in Toronto is great for film. They have a very good selection with lots of rare emulsions . They have much more than any other "pro" shop.

[Neare]

They won't ever stop making film simply because there are many photographic processes in which to do, film is essential for them to be carried out. But they can (as they already are) cut back on production and discontinue the less popular emulsions.

But Polaroid is making a huge comeback thanks to theimpossibleproject.


On another note, using 'film' in the movie industry is gaining huge popularity because now many people are now starting to dislike the 'digital' look in motion picture. Even the RED camera, the most advanced digital movie camera ever made is having a film core and magazine made in for it which will be in mass production shortly. So the top of the line digital is now a hybrid, quite an interesting turn of events no?

[tokek]

hhhhu!......they use digital in NZ:p ??????

[Neare]

Ooooooo getting personal are you :D

I had no idea convicts were allowed to use the internet.

:p

[David Hughes]

Hmmm, well it could be because film is trendy but perhaps the quality of the phone cameras (dreadful) is turning them to film without going through the digital camera phase?

And film cameras can be so simple and straight forward; so ideal to learn with. And perhaps they just like the feel of the things and the prices. And a lot of people like the wait and reward when you get the prints or slides back.

Regards, David

PS Anyway, I'll really believe it when we get an APS forum here...

[tokek]

Boat person we invented the net

[shadowfox]

I'm just glad to see youngsters getting interested in photography!, recently for old tmes sake - I shot a roll in a camera from my fifty plus year collection, sent it away for dev. then scanned and printed a few images, afterwards I sat down and said to my self - 'what the f#*k am I doing this again - for!', then I got my wife to give my ass a good kick, and get my DSLR out of the cabinet!.....your mileage not only may vary, of course! - but vehemently will!, but this old codger's in the twentyfirst century:D;)

Dave, I am laughing with you. :)

I'm not young anymore, but not old either, I am comfortable with digital because that's where I started to learn photography. But I sure am glad that I discover film before it's dead.

Having said that, I am going to do what I can to make sure that film will still be alive and experience a re-birth in my daughter's generation.

[Griffin]

Going to Japan is what got me into photography. I went on a family vacation and prior to leaving, I wanted to buy a nice camera so I could take some nice pictures. Long story short, I bought a Nikon D60.

Now that I look back, I get depressed when I think of the tons of camera shops that I didn't walk into. I was impressed by all the new stuff at the big electronic stores, but none of that matters to me now. I wonder what kind of gems I could have found at the smaller places, used places. :(

countless gems.. I'm in Osaka now and totally gobsmacked by these second hand camera stores. Even the electronics giant Yodobashi has a HUGE selection of films readily available. My wallet has been emptied.

[jonmanjiro]

Even the electronics giant Yodobashi has a HUGE selection of films readily available.

Here's Yodobashi in Yokohama :)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4666068581_71b4500d09_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonmanjiro/4666068581/)
Film fridge - Yodobashi Camera in Yokohama (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonmanjiro/4666068581/) by jonmanjiro (http://www.flickr.com/people/jonmanjiro/), on Flickr

[Neare]

Look at all that protein!

[Chris101]

Here's Yodobashi in Yokohama :)
...

I'm expecting The Dude to come walking by, crack open a brick and take a sniff to see if it's fresh.

[David Murphy]

That's one sweet freezer!

I feel much the same way. I spent a small fortune on my first and only DSLR back around 2004 (Canon 1D MkII). I have used a few before then including the Canon D30 (?), the 10D, and the original 1D. I embraced Digital pretty heavily and learned how to shoot with those cameras, edit in Photoshop, and make very nice Epson prints. Shortly before that I bought a used 4x5 filed camera and an old Kodak lens. I dabbled with that a little, but the newness of digital still had me seduced and that's what I mainly concentrated on.

After a while, this started to be less of a challenge and I found myself wanting to go back to shooting film. I have several film cameras, but wanted a rangefinder. I bought a couple of used Canonnets on Ebay. Then I purchased a couple of Diana cameras, and a modified Holga, then some pinhole cameras. Then 2 years ago I found a great deal on an M6 on Ebay, and then purchased a used Summicron 50 at KEH.

A friend of mine (my retired photo professor) gave me a freezer full of film recently, as well as two top notch enlargers - a Bessler that does 4x5, and a Leica Focomat with auto focus as well as enough paper and chemistry to last me quite a while (even Ilfochrome chemicals and paper).

So needless to say I have a lot of film, plenty of film cameras, some nice darkroom equipment and no excuses.

My goal is to get this set up in the new year and make some traditional darkroom prints. I used to do this in college and it was a pure joy for me.

Some snaps of my freezer - incidentally shot with a digital P&S...

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer2.jpg

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer3.jpg

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer4.jpg

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer5.jpg

[chrismoret]

showboat!!:D:D:D

A freezer full!! Congrats!

[italy74]

Jon
in the case I ever visit Japan, I want a guide telling me where such stores are !!! :) :) :)
You know you're envied by lot of people here ???

[jonmanjiro]

Dino, if you ever visit Japan, I'm happy to be your guide :)

[KM-25]

Since we are showing our stashes...

I recently got married to a wonderful woman, she has a really nice stainless steel LG fridge and freezer that won't fit in the kitchen in my apartment and she does not want to sell just yet. So I gave my little 24" x 24" x 34" freezer to a friend and will move my stock of film to it along with having room for paper. So I took all my stock out today, took inventory and then moved it in, 830 rolls of film including hundreds of rolls of Techpan, nearly 100 rolls of the last batch of HIE.

Glad I bought all this when I could afford it, that is at least two book projects in there...:-)

[LeicaFan]

countless gems.. I'm in Osaka now and totally gobsmacked by these second hand camera stores. Even the electronics giant Yodobashi has a HUGE selection of films readily available. My wallet has been emptied.

So sad... when I was in Japan, I had no idea that the Japanese are so crazy about photography. I wish that I could have visited all of the cool camera shops. :(

[keithdunlop]

I had to Google "LOMO". I've been shooting film for years, but boy do I feel out of touch!

[keithdunlop]

End of the day, film photography is something that is physical, Digital is not.

One only has to recall the D-Day images shot by Capa that were lost to a Life Magazine darkroom mishap to know that film is just as susceptible to destruction than digital images on a hard drive. After all, film is really nothing more than a few chemicals turned into sheets with some silver bromide sandwiched in between. An image on film isn't any more "real" than a digital one. A film image still requires "interpretation" of a scene by the light sensitivity of a chemical reaction. Is that any more real than a semiconductor that records lights electronically? I thought electrons were real and had mass, no?

[driver]

With all due respect for technology, good or bad, interpolation is more of an estimation using complex algorithms rather than a chemical reaction. Who would make a better photographer? A Chemist or Mathematition? Who cares? We're all geeks and should stand together !!!

[redisburning]

I started on film because of the huge expense of a decent digital system. It's inconvenient but I had a good time so I decided to purchase a 40D thinking I would get the good times without the preposterous cost of getting film scanned (ugh) but oh was I wrong.

Once the newness of the dSLR wore off I found that I didnt really enjoy using it so I pushed it off onto my parents and went back to film. The only way I could be convinced to go back to digital is if someone gave me an M8 or M9 (seeing as I cant afford them lol).

I dont really care about the trendy kids with (especially those with lomos and holgas). Their photography is almost always terrible and their cameras definitely are. I tagged along with the photography club at my university and I spent more time laughing at these kids than taking pictures. A bunch of rich kids with no taste taking pictures of stop signs and adding vignetting to the pictures in photoshop. I like to pretend Im not one of them, after all my lenses vignette because of physical limitations lol. I may hate every photo Ive ever taken because it's not good enough, but if I was doing what these kids were I would quit. They are the same as the kids who play guitar with a library of about 7 chords, or the kids who badly try to draw manga. If they have a good time doing it, then I wont begrudge them that. I will laugh at them though.

I cant argue about whether film or digital is better from a technical standpoint. I absolutely believe that digital is better if you wish to look at your pictures on a monitor (which I do almost all of the time). But I dont really care. Ill stick to my manual focus cameras and my 160NC/neopan 400, probably until kodak/fuji pries them out of my hands.

I am young, at least by the standards of this type of internet forum; being 22. Do understand though that I've got a lot of hobbies and most of them are similarly old fashioned. I use fountain pens, love pocket knives, piddle away on my mechanical keyboard and collect books from the golden age of illustration. I only do so because I am inclined towards things that are well made and mechanical. I suppose it is natural that if I was to ever find photography, it would be in the realm of chrome boxes.

[ottluuk]

I'm sorry to say, but I really don't get what's the big deal about people "turning back to film." Most people who use digital are awful photographers. Most people who use film are also awful photographers. These days, I see a lot of people talking about the superior "look" of film and yet, their composition and choice of subject matter is utter cr*p.

I used to shoot film. Now I shoot digital. To me, my digital work is much better than my film stuff, not because the mediums are so different, but because I feel that I have, with time and effort, grown as a photographer. I am now adding a medium format film camera to complement my existing setup. Will that in itself make me a better photographer? No, probably not. But experience and dedication hopefully will.

I don't really care when I see young people turn to film
I don't despair when I see old people turn to digital :D
But I'm happy when I see that people make great photographs.

[softshock]

Wait, film is cheaper than digital?! It hasn't been for me! =P

KM-25, any chance you'd want to sell some of the HIE at a more reasonable price than the eBay crowd?

[Haigh]

One of our universities here teaches both digital and darkroom printing and the professor there said the youngsters just love the darkroom.

[Haigh]

I know from my trips to Tokyo that Yodabishi in Shinjuku is a dangerous place for a photographer as a short spell in there with all those goodies, and you might not have anything left in your wallet.

[xwhatsit]

piddle away on my mechanical keyboard

Hah, now there's a poll idea! Correlation between mechanical keyboards and film users.

Buckling springs all the way. Brand new, 122 keys, courtesy of Unicomp. Feels exactly like a 1980s IBM Model M, though!

Had to buy it to save my wrists and fingers. I'm a software developer and although I haven't been doing it long (I'm still in my 20s -- is that "Young people" enough for this thread?) I was starting to feel it.

I never owned a digital camera, although obviously I grew up with them. I bought a film rangefinder simply because I loved the mechanical side of the camera. Didn't take many rolls before I loved the look and feel of what I was getting. So I thought I should give photography some respect and time and now work hard to try and capture some nice photographs too. I also fell in love with the process of analogue photography, and started printing too.

I think the real appeal to me (and those I know who choose analogue photography) is the fun. "Young people" get bored. Analogue photography is just that much more fun, to an amateur. All those emulsions; dozens of different B&W "looks", there's colour negative, slides even! (Gosh, girlfriend bought a projector recently, what fun that was!). Then there's medium format -- folding cameras -- TLRs! It never ends.

And the delayed gratification gives you such a kick when the slides arrive in the post, or you pull the negs out of the tank. Not being a professional or a serious photographer, a hobby must be fun for it to last more than a year or so.

[Pikapig]

I uses a 400D and while waiting for the right timing(as well as saving up money) to move into a 5DMKII...i strayed....i got tempted to start one of those so called lomography camera and that was when i know that films still exist!

N from plastic cameras to SLR and then to old school rangefinder and finally embarking on the journey of rangefinders....i couldnt afford a leica and so i got myself a R2A. I do not understand why if there is a better and cheaper option to Leica why are there still lots of people waiting to own one so badly. haha

And i hope i will never know why..PLEASE!

Oh along the way i strayed to some TLR, medium format...i just love the view in the viewfinder of a TLR..

Till today, i still didnt save enough to get a 5DMKII...but i have gotten these!
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5123/5377295914_e53eb9ac1c_z.jpg

[jonmanjiro]

I uses a 400D and while waiting for the right timing(as well as saving up money) to move into a 5DMKII...i strayed....i got tempted to start one of those so called lomography camera and that was when i know that films still exist!

N from plastic cameras to SLR and then to old school rangefinder and finally embarking on the journey of rangefinders....i couldnt afford a leica and so i got myself a R2A. I do not understand why if there is a better and cheaper option to Leica why are there still lots of people waiting to own one so badly. haha

And i hope i will never know why..PLEASE!

Oh along the way i strayed to some TLR, medium format...i just love the view in the viewfinder of a TLR..

Till today, i still didnt save enough to get a 5DMKII...but i have gotten these!
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5123/5377295914_e53eb9ac1c_z.jpg

Hi Jackson, welcome to RFF. Your photographic journey is quite similar to mine. As much as I hate to admit it, the camera that started me on serious film photography was a Lomo LC-A :eek: I quickly outgrew it and upgraded to a Nikon FM3A. Then I bought lots of MF glass and took lots of photos. Then a few years later I saw a Nikon SP 2005, and it was love at first sight :bang::D

[Pikapig]

Hi Jackson, welcome to RFF. Your photographic journey is quite similar to mine. As much as I hate to admit it, the camera that started me on serious film photography was a Lomo LC-A :eek: I quickly outgrew it and upgraded to a Nikon FM3A. Then I bought lots of MF glass and took lots of photos. Then a few years later I saw a Nikon SP 2005, and it was love at first sight :bang::D
Hi Jon

Thanks for the welcome...looking forward to learn more from the hobbyist here more!

N great to have known u.:p

[tom.w.bn]

I'm sorry to say, but I really don't get what's the big deal about people "turning back to film." Most people who use digital are awful photographers. Most people who use film are also awful photographers. These days, I see a lot of people talking about the superior "look" of film and yet, their composition and choice of subject matter is utter cr*p.

I used to shoot film. Now I shoot digital. To me, my digital work is much better than my film stuff, not because the mediums are so different, but because I feel that I have, with time and effort, grown as a photographer. I am now adding a medium format film camera to complement my existing setup. Will that in itself make me a better photographer? No, probably not. But experience and dedication hopefully will.

I don't really care when I see young people turn to film
I don't despair when I see old people turn to digital :D
But I'm happy when I see that people make great photographs.

What a refreshing post in that dogmatic discussion.

[Yoricko]

I have boxes and boxes of bulk Tri-X.
I shoot 2.5 rolls a day on average.
Student budget not working well.

Anyways, I do think that more young people are shooting film because.. it is slightly unpredictable and a little more interesting than digital. Plus, a film camera is like a fashion accessory; I've seen people who just sling some random antique camera but never use it.

[MC JC86]

I'm sorry to say, but I really don't get what's the big deal about people "turning back to film." Most people who use digital are awful photographers. Most people who use film are also awful photographers. These days, I see a lot of people talking about the superior "look" of film and yet, their composition and choice of subject matter is utter cr*p.

I used to shoot film. Now I shoot digital. To me, my digital work is much better than my film stuff, not because the mediums are so different, but because I feel that I have, with time and effort, grown as a photographer. I am now adding a medium format film camera to complement my existing setup. Will that in itself make me a better photographer? No, probably not. But experience and dedication hopefully will.

I don't really care when I see young people turn to film
I don't despair when I see old people turn to digital :D
But I'm happy when I see that people make great photographs.


I count myself amongst the ranks of those whose work is "utter crap". I enjoy the process and just about everything involved with analog photography and analog photography equipment. I also get excited when I see people my age turning to film, it gives a little assurance that the medium I want to work in will stick around in it's present state for a bit longer.

[dave lackey]

I have boxes and boxes of bulk Tri-X.
I shoot 2.5 rolls a day on average.
Student budget not working well.

Anyways, I do think that more young people are shooting film because.. it is slightly unpredictable and a little more interesting than digital. Plus, a film camera is like a fashion accessory; I've seen people who just sling some random antique camera but never use it.


Love it!:):):)

[berlincontemporary]

I've seen people who just sling some random antique camera but never use it.

Hard to believe...

[dave lackey]

I have boxes and boxes of bulk Tri-X.
I shoot 2.5 rolls a day on average.
Student budget not working well.

Anyways, I do think that more young people are shooting film because.. it is slightly unpredictable and a little more interesting than digital. Plus, a film camera is like a fashion accessory; I've seen people who just sling some random antique camera but never use it.

Actually, this is no different than people who own antique/collector cars and never drive them. Besides, a camera can function quite well as jewelry.:D

[Field]

Well this "trend" has made it pretty much impossible for me to get an M body. I wonder if I will ever get an eye-level standard black prism for my F body (for less than $1,3k).

I think it is much like vintage clothing. People wanted it because they could afford it originally, now everyone wants to charge them as much as they can because they buy it.

Digital is better for most of "work" since you can carry one camera that does it all instead of a bag of lenses and cameras that only take 36 shots. The ability in low light situations to push ISO into outer-space has got film's ass kicked. It has its place.

[Neare]

Digital is better for most of "work" since you can carry one camera that does it all instead of a bag of lenses and cameras that only take 36 shots. The ability in low light situations to push ISO into outer-space has got film's ass kicked. It has its place.


'Better' and 'Convenience' need to be separated. What is 'better' is simply subjective.
Saying one or the other is 'better' is how silly arguments start. :angel:

[Field]

Right I am looking at it objectively. Most jobs benefit from time efficiency except for people lucky enough to have photo jobs based on quality. Anyways I want to say cool-beans about young people (not that I am old yet) being interested but... The world is almost to the brim with mediocre media in all art forms already. I am not interested in everyone pretending to be more of a photographer than just enjoying being amateurish. Most of them would be better off with a P&S. We all know we could lie and tell people our P&S photos came from a $8,000 setup, and most would believe us. Besides even a lot of them that like to own old gear often just use digital anyways.

[segedi]

cameras that only take 36 shotsI prefer cameras that take only 10 or 12 shots...
My 35mm rangefinders hold onto 36 frames for days!

[dave lackey]

I prefer cameras that take only 10 or 12 shots...
My 35mm rangefinders hold onto 36 frames for days!


Heh, heh...yep. Takes me awhile to get 30 or so keepers on a single roll. Takes me a lot longer to get 30 from the digital spray and pray machine.:p Plus the editing and archiving...

[meanstreetshooter]

Anyways, I do think that more young people are shooting film because.. it is slightly unpredictable and a little more interesting than digital. Plus, a film camera is like a fashion accessory; I've seen people who just sling some random antique camera but never use it.


I have never observed this. I usually see young people with their small digital cameras. Their version of our old "Instamatic" snapshot cameras. I still have mine, sitting inside the original hinged box, resting on a wooden camera center my Dad built. Also there is his Speed Graphic (ca. 1948).

Some young people never give me a second glance when I am using a Sunset Unittic (model 65) hand meter (ca. 1972) with my Leica M4 and Mamiya C330f (ca. 1972).

Am I at the wrong place at the wrong time?

[MC JC86]

I have never observed this. I usually see young people with their small digital cameras. Their version of our old "Instamatic" snapshot cameras.

Some young people never give me a second glance when I am using a Unittic Sunset hand meter (ca. 1972) with my Leica M4 and Mamiya C330f (ca. 1972).

Am I at the wrong place at the wrong time?

I think the number of "young people" who use film rather than digital and wouldn't list "photography" or some visual art as a hobby is close to 0.

The number of "young people" who use both film and digital, people who are dedicated to photography, seems to be growing.

Every 20-30 year old amateur photographer I know personally uses at least some film some of the time, even if their first camera was a DSLR.

[Chris101]

I have never observed this. I usually see young people with their small digital cameras. Their version of our old "Instamatic" snapshot cameras.

Some young people never give me a second glance when I am using a Unittic Sunset hand meter (ca. 1972) with my Leica M4 and Mamiya C330f (ca. 1972).

Am I at the wrong place at the wrong time?

Actually I saw this last year for the first time. A young woman at the Flagstaff Music Festival was walking around with a Rolleiflex attached to her belt.. She was snapping away with a largish Canon DSLR. The Rollei looked like it was firmly attached to her outfit, and could not be used as a camera.

I think I got a shot of her - I'll look for it tonight.

[rogerzilla]

Digital is far superior in low light situations even if you don't have high ISO, because it laughs in the face of reciprocity failure. But you can't get real b/w, nor can you get an entirely different look just by trying a new film. And digital noise is far nastier than grain, because it doesn't line up with the image in the way that film grain does.

[MC JC86]

Digital is far superior in low light situations even if you don't have high ISO, because it laughs in the face of reciprocity failure. But you can't get real b/w, nor can you get an entirely different look just by trying a new film. And digital noise is far nastier than grain, because it doesn't line up with the image in the way that film grain does.

Digital may 'laugh in the face of reciprocity failure" until one needs to actually do a very long exposure, then a couple hundred dollar SLR with a roll of provia and a filter will be able to do things that no comparable (in price) digital could. Some image sensors can actually have their pixel failure rate increased by doing long exposures. Also, as you said digital noise usually blows when compared to grain of the same severity.

Now that digital SLRs can have decent results at 25000 though there ARE lots of situations where they CAN do things that film cameras never will. For now I'll still he happy with microphen and fast lenses though.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

[Dwayneb9584]

Now that's Organic!


I feel much the same way. I spent a small fortune on my first and only DSLR back around 2004 (Canon 1D MkII). I have used a few before then including the Canon D30 (?), the 10D, and the original 1D. I embraced Digital pretty heavily and learned how to shoot with those cameras, edit in Photoshop, and make very nice Epson prints. Shortly before that I bought a used 4x5 filed camera and an old Kodak lens. I dabbled with that a little, but the newness of digital still had me seduced and that's what I mainly concentrated on.

After a while, this started to be less of a challenge and I found myself wanting to go back to shooting film. I have several film cameras, but wanted a rangefinder. I bought a couple of used Canonnets on Ebay. Then I purchased a couple of Diana cameras, and a modified Holga, then some pinhole cameras. Then 2 years ago I found a great deal on an M6 on Ebay, and then purchased a used Summicron 50 at KEH.

A friend of mine (my retired photo professor) gave me a freezer full of film recently, as well as two top notch enlargers - a Bessler that does 4x5, and a Leica Focomat with auto focus as well as enough paper and chemistry to last me quite a while (even Ilfochrome chemicals and paper).

So needless to say I have a lot of film, plenty of film cameras, some nice darkroom equipment and no excuses.

My goal is to get this set up in the new year and make some traditional darkroom prints. I used to do this in college and it was a pure joy for me.

Some snaps of my freezer - incidentally shot with a digital P&S...

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer2.jpg

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer3.jpg

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer4.jpg

http://www.dragma.com/gnuyork/watch/filmfreezer5.jpg

[Finnegan]

I'm 29 and got into photography about a year ago. I use both film and digital.
2 reasons why I like film: It limits me and I look/work harder resulting in learning faster. Also no delete function. You have to live with your failures.
2nd reason, and thats not a very important one. The looks. It's organic and imperfect (35mm) and I grew up with that look.

I work in audio engineering and it's the same digital vs. analog thing there. In music some people still record on magnetic tape and will still do so in 50 years. For much of the same reasons. It's more organic, imperfect and people are used to that sound.

[bobby_novatron]

Finnegan -- very astute observation. There are parallels between audio and photography, as you mentioned. I own a couple albums (recorded in the 2000's) that use expensive Neumann microphones, but were recorded direct to 8-track analog tape. The artist & producer intentionally wanted that particular sound ... even if the eventual product was going to be mastered down to CD or squashed into an MP3.

Analog film + a decent scanner is a similar workflow. I do it all the time, and I love the results I get from film. Sure, film can be frustrating. Each film has its own 'personality', its own strengths and weaknesses. And maybe it's some kind of mis-placed nostalgia that makes me reach for my film camera far more often than my Canon dSLR. But I feel I have to work harder to get a good photo from a film camera ... the results are more satisfying to me.

Regarding the original thread ('young people turning to film') -- I don't have any hard figures, but anecdotal evidence seems to say it's definitely been a growing force in photography in the past while.

I was at a giant shopping mall in my city last month. In the giant shopping mall, there is a large 'hipster' store where all the cool kids shop. They carry things like Japanese import toys, fashionable T-shirts, coffee table art books, etc. Imagine my surprise when I stumbled upon a table loaded with Lomography products, Lomo-branded film, and Fuji Instax cameras.

I'm not saying that every teenager with a smartphone is rushing out to buy a rangefinder or anything like that -- but I think for the latest generation (Gen Y? Gen Z?) analog photography is quirky and retro and cool ... basically the same reasons why this 40-something father of two still salivates when he sees a clean Minolta Himatic 7 in an antique store window! ;)