View Full Version : Post processing and editing are killing my enjoyment of photography
(the PP blues)
I have two onerous files staring at me daily on my desktop that need to be completed, burned to disc and handed to those who are expecting them.
One was shot in black and white film (nine rolls) and has been scanned and all the images selected for final editing (approx 120) have been post processed and the last task is to edit that quantity down to around fifty final images and attempt to place them in some type of sequence
then burned to disc of course.
There is another folder staring at me that contains around 120 raw files from my D700 of a gallery opening I shot a week and a half ago
they need to be post processed and edited down to a final thirty or so
then burned to disc also! I received an email yesterday from someone wanting to know how much longer this particular completed file will be.
These two examples are no big deal I admit but Im really struggling with this side of photography and find that its getting harder instead of easier
the more I have to do it the less I enjoy it! In fact I actually find it stressful to the point where I seriously procrastinate when there is PP and editing to be done and will find something else to do that I tell myself is far more important
yesterday it was spending almost the entire day brush cutting the top part of my property. :o
How the hell do wedding photographers etc who go out week after week returning often with thousands of digital files that need to go through this painful process cope
Im seriously beginning to wonder? Maybe I just dont have mental discipline for this sort of thing and would be better off hiding in a darkroom somewhere learning to wet print
but of course no one is going to pay me to do that!
This is really starting to cramp me and Im finding it progressively harder to actually pick up a camera and go out and take photographs for myself and often when I do Im really not happy with the end result. Is there some pain barrier here that once you pass through it all becomes a little easier or should I just give up while I still have my sanity
mostly! :p
monochromejrnl
10-28-2010, 16:01
If I'm doing something for someone else, I better be getting paid, otherwise it'll take a while before it gets done. Collecting money is a great motivator! Either you're not getting paid or you're not getting paid enough! ;P
Pickett Wilson
10-28-2010, 16:04
Keith, imagine you had to print all of those in the darkroom! That would be even less fun.
You can do a "Winogrand" and let the exposed rolls age - like a fine wine :D
How the hell do wedding photographers etc who go out week after week returning often with thousands of digital files that need to go through this painful process cope
One local tog I know of employs three monkeys to do the post chimping for her. Not sure how long they stick it for.
Keith
Hire someone to do the Post on Paid jobs.
Many Wedding photographers do just that.
Or, take on no more work for a week or two, catch up on current stuff, and take a holiday.
I'm having trouble going through 60 years of Slides, Negatives and prints that my dad kept from Marriage on!.....(14 double sized file boxes. :eek::eek::eek:) and two large gym bags.
It can get overwhelming....
Bob Michaels
10-28-2010, 17:01
Keith: Your post led me to believe you were doing these two jobs as a commercial endeavor. Now you certainly do not have to dislike your job, but this is a job is it not? Maybe I am not catching on. I just cannot imagine anyone loving photography so much that they would enjoy shooting and editing events in a manner to please someone else.
Vince Lupo
10-28-2010, 17:07
I just shot about 5,000 pictures last week between 3 clients, so I can definitely appreciate your sentiments. But, if you charge for your time going through everything, then it can be a good motivator.
Keith: Your post led me to believe you were doing these two jobs as a commercial endeavor. Now you certainly do not have to dislike your job, but this is a job is it not? Maybe I am not catching on. I just cannot imagine anyone loving photography so much that they would enjoy shooting and editing events in a manner to please someone else.
Yes sorry Bob I should have been clearer ... they are both paid jobs but not what I would call great money. The institution I do these for has a photography budget for each event they hold and it's my choice to accept the fee they offer ... or not!
The film project I did for them was great fun to shoot and a real challenge but the scanning, post processing etc has really done my head in.
Best thing I've found for cutting down the time for Nikon files is Nikon's ViewNX, it's free, it crawls agonizingly when editing multiple files because it re converts every file every time you do an edit, instead of generating a 'preview' and showing you that. The time saver is that the color is good, so you're not screwing around with that for an eon.
You'll have the learning curve with ViewNX, but in the end I think it'll save you time..
:)
tomalophicon
10-28-2010, 17:30
Why wouldn't people pay you to wet print?
You may get more excitement from it.
Just scan the outcome and you won't have to spend much time on the computer at all.
Keep your processing simple mate, make a photoshop action or preferably a lightroom preset for your digital files, rotate, crop, maybe correct levels/curves if needs be and thats about it, batch export and you're finished. With your film scans unfortunately there's no way around spot-healing the dust spots, so maybe you should reconsider using film for this type of project?
noimmunity
10-28-2010, 17:41
I love the process, and always have some moments during the day or week when I can't focus enough to do anything demanding...that's where PP fits in.
My complaint is that I just can't get the results that I see others here putting up.
Bob Michaels
10-28-2010, 17:46
<snip> when I can't focus enough to do anything demanding...that's where PP fits in.
My complaint is that I just can't get the results that I see others here putting up.
Your first sentence contains the answer to the problem posed in the second.
oftheherd
10-28-2010, 17:50
Photo Shop or other PP software does digitally what is done manually in the wet darkroom. I don't know that you will find relief in going wet. I prefer it but it isn't any less work than digital PP. The work is manual rather than digital. In the case of the 75 year old photos, you are probably ahead of the game with digital. Not so many wasted attempts to throw in the trash can. When you are taking the photos, you can cut down on the PP, whether in the darkroom or computer. But with those, you didn't.
With your other job, were you just shooting away, or taking meaningful photos? That will cut down on the decision making.
It sounds like you have just gotten yourself overwhelmed with work conflicting with life. Probably coming down a bit from the excitement of the 75 year old photos as well. I didn't have them in my hands, and I am sorry there are no more.
Easy to say, hard to do: get hold of yourself and do it. Fun or not. Get it over with and then relax. Then don't take on more than you are ready to do in a given time. Photography can be so much fun that is sometimes hard to turn down challenges, until you realize why it sometimes gets to be less fun.
Good luck. You are in a funk similar to depression. From all your posts, I am confident you have the internal fortitude to work out of it. But you have to work at it. Right now you just want to avoid it. It's no fun. Most of us have been there and done that, to greater or lesser degrees. You will work you way out. Only you can determine how soon.
But I don't think you will be in this funk/for for long. You are too good at what you do.
Steve M.
10-28-2010, 17:50
There's a few options you might take.
A- Take less photos to begin with. Seriously.
B - Set up some actions in your PP that will do a lot of things all at once. Auto level, curve, auto color, etc.
C - Shoot only film (see A above).
Frank Petronio
10-28-2010, 17:58
I throw away most of what I shoot and I don't deliver that many finals.
Then I edit a representative file as good as possible in Adobe Camera Raw, followed by Applying the "Previous Conversion" to all the applicable files made under similar conditions.
Then, for freebies and simple stuff, I stay in Bridge and use the automatic website creation options to generate a website with the largest size .jpg files possible, 1600 pixels wide. It creates a folder for the website>Resources>Large which I open in Bridge and sort and rename the files as needed. That's what I deliver in most cases.
I can do a couple hundred snapshots, grip and grins, gallery openings, etc. in an hour of tv watching with my laptop.
For pictures I value, I spend quite a bit more on them individually.... but for a party? Facebook? Really? I'm not going to start liquifying fat people and covering bald spots unless I'm on the clock.
The problem with digital files is that they are never finished and you can do more to them. Easy to spend more than an hour on one if its for a fine print.
Best policy is to edit in the viewfinder and don't get trigger happy just becasue you can. Then assuming you are getting exposures correct, there should be minimal post processing.
I would suggest just providing untouched digital proofs for selection and then post process only those selected. Tell them that's how you work. It will save you a lot of time.
Keith,
Can you outline your post processing sequence/methodology for us? There's almost always an easier way to do things...
WDPictures
10-28-2010, 18:46
Heard Michael Kenna give a talk once and he said his editing/processing is usually about one year behind his shooting schedule. Doubt he takes that long for his party photos though.
Keith,
Can you outline your post processing sequence/methodology for us? There's almost always an easier way to do things...
Hi Gavin,
I've been using ACDSee Pro 3 which I really like ... I know the software inside out and went straight back to it after trying Lightroom for a while which I found quite difficult to familiarise myself with.
It has batch processing which is good but of course the variation in the images I come home with from these gallery openings makes batch processing marginally useful.
I usuallly convert my files to tiffs before working on them due to the fact that post processing them in NEF format really slows my computer down ... I need better graphic capability, more memory and more processing power in my current PC I realise but at the moment I have to live with what I have!
If I was out shooting in broad daylight with the Nikon life would be simple because the files in these conditions need little work but having to shoot to maintain the highlights (video screens) and then recovering what detail I can from the shadows seems to have to be done on an image to image basis ... each file has infuences from different light sources and it changes by the second as I'm shooting. Occasionally I'll get four or five in a row that I can apply the same values to but this the exception rather than the rule.
Someone suggested shooting less and being more selective during the process which I did actually do last time and I came home with a third of the shots that I normally do. Chimping does have it's value and I think I need to do that more ... it doesn't take long to review what I've just shot and decide whether it's going to be of any use to me when I get home.
Some great advice in this thread so far by the way ... I thank you! :)
Unless one is a pro photographer with clients to satisfy, just choose the workflow that makes you happy and gives you satisfaction. You have to decide if the mpney you are making is "worth" it.
Keith, one thing you might try is turning off the 'internet critiques' in your head (shadow detail, blown highlights, missed focus). First, does the photo work for you and your client? Then post process the hopefuls.
robklurfield
10-28-2010, 19:42
I'll second that.
Keith: Your post led me to believe you were doing these two jobs as a commercial endeavor. Now you certainly do not have to dislike your job, but this is a job is it not? Maybe I am not catching on. I just cannot imagine anyone loving photography so much that they would enjoy shooting and editing events in a manner to please someone else.
robklurfield
10-28-2010, 19:46
I need exactly that. Oh, wait. Frank meant in PP not in life. Darn.
I'm not going to start liquifying fat people and covering bald spots unless I'm on the clock.
wgerrard
10-28-2010, 19:51
Post-processing cries out for automation. Not necessarily automation that ingests a batch of files and spits out finished images, per some personalized preset preferences. (Although there's a place for that.) But, I find myself doing many of the same things over and over, in the same order. Anytime humans do the same thing over and over on a computer, that an opportunity for automation.
My normal post-processing load is so small that it seldom becomes a burden. The downside of that is I don't get enough experience to polish my chops or to settle on a standard approach.
I think the key is to reduce the number of final images. If you tell a client that you will produce fifty images from a public event they will say OK. If you say you will produce 25, they will probably still say OK.
I do wonder when I see wedding photographers that produce finished albums of 100-200 images! Less is definitely more... for you and the client.
Push on through this lot and then perhaps decide whether this is the sort of shooting you want to do in future. And perhaps take a break away from cameras altogether for a week or two?
Post-processing cries out for automation. Not necessarily automation that ingests a batch of files and spits out finished images, per some personalized preset preferences. (Although there's a place for that.) But, I find myself doing many of the same things over and over, in the same order. Anytime humans do the same thing over and over on a computer, that an opportunity for automation.
My normal post-processing load is so small that it seldom becomes a burden. The downside of that is I don't get enough experience to polish my chops or to settle on a standard approach.
Yes, and with ACDSee Pro 3, if all the or most of the files are similar in density, etc... PP one, and there is a global control to apply all the "last used" adjustments (on the "Develop" side).
@keith
the "gear" between the Develop and Edit tabs, OR you can use the "gear" to the right and under the Develop and Edit tab, OR, EACH adjustment has a "gear" that has an option to repeat the last action just for that adjustment....
I use those all the time after I have scanned a roll of film... Very good at cutting the time down.
You may use this already though.
Just a thought.
ray*j*gun
10-29-2010, 10:12
Keith: Your post led me to believe you were doing these two jobs as a commercial endeavor. Now you certainly do not have to dislike your job, but this is a job is it not? Maybe I am not catching on. I just cannot imagine anyone loving photography so much that they would enjoy shooting and editing events in a manner to please someone else.
Amen......work is work...... to some degree at least. I ride Harleys and at one point I thought about getting into the motorcycle business and was warned against it because often when your passion becomes your business you can lose both in the process.
wgerrard
10-29-2010, 10:20
Yes, and with ACDSee Pro 3, if all the or most of the files are similar in density, etc... PP one, and there is a global control to apply all the "last used" adjustments (on the "Develop" side).
Thanks. I didn't know that. Suppose I ought to check out ACDSee Pro 3.
eddie1960
10-29-2010, 10:36
I think the key is to reduce the number of final images. If you tell a client that you will produce fifty images from a public event they will say OK. If you say you will produce 25, they will probably still say OK.
I do wonder when I see wedding photographers that produce finished albums of 100-200 images! Less is definitely more... for you and the client.
As mentioned before Wedding photographers employ someone else for chimping and build it in to the fee same with having a second shooter to do all the guest party shots so they can focus on the art. I've done the second shooter thing a couple of times and just handed back the cards he supplied. Nice to walk away at the end of the day. On the other hand I'm shooting one for a friend Sunday and to keep costs down I'm doing the whole thing myself. Fortunately it's a Halloween wedding and will be fun to shoot to make up for the other side. And they want it all done with Film so straight to the pro lab hand in the 25-30 rolls pick up the proofs review, then go back to the lab and do some imacon scans to make a book - if they could all be this way i'd shoot weddings all the time instead of turning them down.
Limit the promised shots as well it simplifies things - i usually go through find enough good shots to meet the commitment then leave the rest for a later time that never seems to come
Several posters have mentioned it but you need automation; a template of saved actions that you can batch apply. I use Photoshop and it's particularly easy to save and run actions in that product. I also bought a dSLR that was a favorite of event photographers so I could use OOC jpeg files so no RAW. I also hate PP work as my "real" work is computer based and the last thing I want in my hobby is more time at the screen. So far it's worked for me...
Why do you think Gary Winogrand died with a couple of thousand undeveloped rolls laying around? I hate editing and post processing too but until you can afford an assistant you're stuck with it. Put on some good music, maybe a finger of good scotch and muddle through!
Pickett Wilson
10-30-2010, 01:21
Wedding photographers get really good with Lightroom. If you learn the program, you can go through 100's, even thousands, of photos really quickly narrowing down your selection, then process them quickly. It's not as much fun learning software as shooting photos, but in the case of Lightroom (or Photoshop for that matter), taking the time to learn the software is time well spent.
Wedding photographers get really good with Lightroom. If you learn the program, you can go through 100's, even thousands, of photos really quickly narrowing down your selection, then process them quickly. It's not as much fun learning software as shooting photos, but in the case of Lightroom (or Photoshop for that matter), taking the time to learn the software is time well spent.
100% agreed. I'd cry myself to sleep if I didn't have lightroom.
Wedding photographers get really good with Lightroom.
x3. I watched a friend I shoot with do in an hour what takes me (it seems) an entire weekend. I think it's true that achieving some fluency with computer PP is the key to keeping your sanity. :p
MatthewThompson
10-30-2010, 02:49
Same, but Aperture here.
Keith, I'd seriously look at a couple things:
Shutter discipline: especially on film. Shooting an event can be fun, but in the end you have a lot of similar shots. As you do more of this sort of work, you'll be able to pick out the key moments and let the others slide. Your nine rolls might have been four, depending on the event. Last event I shot was six hours and over a thousand people, I delivered just over 100 shots with minimal post due to constant light and camera settings.
Outsource: this is going to sound funny, but outsource the PP to a place that's highly skilled and cheap. India is a great example. You can FTP it and have the work done for a few bucks an hour, mark up the time several hundred percent and pass along the total to your client. Check into personal assistant services and narrow it down to imaging/graphics people from there.
Keith, I know the feeling, I shoot weddings from time to time (and I take along a second shooter) and struggled with the PP until I mastered Lightroom, with the help of Martin Evening's excellent book. It now only takes hours to PP what previously took days or weeks. Definitely worth revisiting and persisting with the learning curve IMHO. It's designed as a workflow tool from the ground up. LR relegates Photoshop to a pixel touchup role.
My workflow is to import all images (LR does this to 2 drives simultaneously - one is backup), delete rejects, delete superfluous files, rename/renumber files, process files by lighting condition groups so develop settings can be copied, crop, export to JPG and burn to disk. With practice the time spent on each file is seconds, not minutes - has to be when there may be 800-1600 initial files.
Album selects get additional pixel work in Photoshop, usually minor touchup on skin and removing unwanted background.
Scanning negs is more time consuming with dust removal - I scan as TIFFs, do global adjustments in LR and then use CS4's healing brush.
Shooting film and then sending it off to a pro lab definitely had its advantages!
Matthew's suggestion of outsourcing sounds like it's worth investigating.
Regards,
This is why I'll never work professionally (not that I'm that good, but never do paid work).
I do photography for myself, if somebody wants to buy or use an image off mine its fine with me but I'll never take money to shoot x, y or z as I've found it totally kills my enjoyment.
...forgot to mention, another big time saver is a Wacom Intuos graphics tablet, more so for Photoshop than for LR. I just love mine.
Frontman
10-30-2010, 04:01
Just do it. I learned in the Army (and later in other places) that the best way to get difficult tasks completed is to do them without wasting time thinking about how you feel about doing them. Close the door on your lazy body's complaints and let your mind work without interference.
I disagree with the notion of shooting less, you don't have to edit the pics you don't like, so taking them in the first place doesn't really waste that much time. Quality is of course better than quantity, but when one is lacking the other must take it's place. If things work out well, you can get both quality and quantity at the same time.
When you write all the images selected for final editing (approx 120) have been post processed" I can't help to think that you may be overworking yourself. Why not choose first, then edit?
photogdave
10-30-2010, 08:56
I share your frustrations Keith. This is one of the big reasons I prefer to shoot film. Maybe it's the way I'm wired, but I just find it much easier and straightforward to shoot my film, have the lab develop it at a measly $5 per roll and get it on the light table to pick out the frames I like. Then I can scan those frames, process and I'm done.
EVERY TIME I shoot digital I end up with a file folder full of shots that I just don't want to deal with and I end up putting it off and sometimes completely forgetting about it. Maybe I don't like looking at thumbnails on a computer screen.
I've shot my fair share of weddings over the years but never done it full time. I shot a wedding digitally once and was totally put off by the workflow. (No problems with the image quality though!)
For my next wedding I shot everything on film, had the lab develop and print, chose the best shots from the proof prints, scanned those and made an Apple iPhoto book for the clients. Saved me tonnes of time, and the clients got a completed book, digital backups and the original negs.
What I hear: man shoots film at weddings (Pickett Wilson, hi there!) and drops film at local lab for proofs. Selected frames go back for printing in needed size with remarks for printer, though they are good at printing for faces if they are present in shot. Bride gets 20-30 prints, which have chance to be viewed instead of 1000 digifiles on disc.
shadowfox
10-31-2010, 19:18
Maybe I just dont have mental discipline for this sort of thing and would be better off hiding in a darkroom somewhere learning to wet print
but of course no one is going to pay me to do that!
Keith,
I know you didn't mean it.
But thinking that achieving darkroom printing expertise is just a matter of "hiding" and somehow is easier to achieve than herding hundreds of digital files, that is quite far off the mark.
Just do it. I learned in the Army (and later in other places) that the best way to get difficult tasks completed is to do them without wasting time thinking about how you feel about doing them. Close the door on your lazy body's complaints and let your mind work without interference.
I disagree with the notion of shooting less, you don't have to edit the pics you don't like, so taking them in the first place doesn't really waste that much time. Quality is of course better than quantity, but when one is lacking the other must take it's place. If things work out well, you can get both quality and quantity at the same time.
You don't happen to work for Nike do you? :D
You're right of course ... less complaining and more work would help my problem. :o
:p
Keith,
I know you didn't mean it.
But thinking that achieving darkroom printing expertise is just a matter of "hiding" and somehow is easier to achieve than herding hundreds of digital files, that is quite far off the mark.
I was thinking more in terms of personal rewards Wil. These paid jobs tie me in knots partially due to the perfectionist in me and partially due to not quite having total confidence in my output. I remember the first gallery opening I photographed for these people with my M8 ... I spent untold hours fiddling, editing, re-fiddling, re-editing etc etc before finally burning to disc. I delivered the disc personally to the curator of the gallery who asked me to hang around while she popped the disc into her laptob to have a gander ... I think that was one of the most anxious few seconds of my life! Talk about performance anxiety! LOL
In a perfect world I'd be creating beautiful black and white prints in my own darkroom and having people pay me two or three hundred dollars for them as I complete them ... and not have to deal with all this photography on demand digital angst! :p
I can dream! :D
Keith, I don't really know how ACDsee works - I've never tried it, so I'm not sure how it compares to lightroom, but it sounds as if your computer is struggling a little with the workload as well. Might I suggest a basic upgrade to speed it up a little bit? I know when I have to work with a slow computer it makes me want to tear my hair out.
If you're on a windows PC, you should be able to upgrade the RAM very easily. For maybe $100-$200 you could double or triple the ram, and speed it up considerably. That way you mightn't have to convert the RAW files to TIFFs in the first place.
Gray Fox
10-31-2010, 20:04
Keith, I think I've been where you are at least a couple of times over the last 35 years, trying to make a few bucks and gather some approval from people you respect via your photography. One quickly arrives at the chicken or the egg situation regarding how much time and money you think you need to invest in order to do more business--hopefully it is available--so you can get the gear (and now the software) you think you need to do the business better and make more money to pay for more gear or temporary help. It's easy to meet yourself coming and going. Then, as has been mentioned, it's not too hard for your passion to become your personally concocted poison. I've had periods where I haven't made a single image in almost a year.
It's hard to reconcile the feeling of discovery and adventure that you found in restoring the old negs and graciously sharing them with all of us here and the great feedback the rolls generated, with the funk you now find yourself in. You cut brush, I split firewood. I guess you may just need to muck through this set of tasks, take a break, and then try to resolve for yourself whether you want to subject your mind to this again. Have a serious talk with the guy in the shaving mirror in the morning and see what you come up with. GF
Keith, I don't really know how ACDsee works - I've never tried it, so I'm not sure how it compares to lightroom, but it sounds as if your computer is struggling a little with the workload as well. Might I suggest a basic upgrade to speed it up a little bit? I know when I have to work with a slow computer it makes me want to tear my hair out.
If you're on a windows PC, you should be able to upgrade the RAM very easily. For maybe $100-$200 you could double or triple the ram, and speed it up considerably. That way you mightn't have to convert the RAW files to TIFFs in the first place.
Hi Gav,
ACDSee Pro pretty well does all of what Lightroom does but with an interface that I'm totally familiar with and when I tried Lightroom I soon realised that there was no real advantage for me.
My computer by todays standards is crap and I do have a complete new system planned in the next few months. There's a great place in Milton called U-Mart where I recently bought a hard drive, they have an enormous range and are very cheap. My son is very good with these things and can put something together for me for well under a grand that will blow the doors off what I have.
I really noticed how dated my computing power was when I went from the M8 to the D700. 10 megapixels ~ just OK ... 12 ~ really struggling!
Keith, I think I've been where you are at least a couple of times over the last 35 years, trying to make a few bucks and gather some approval from people you respect via your photography. One quickly arrives at the chicken or the egg situation regarding how much time and money you think you need to invest in order to do more business--hopefully it is available--so you can get the gear (and now the software) you think you need to do the business better and make more money to pay for more gear or temporary help. It's easy to meet yourself coming and going. Then, as has been mentioned, it's not too hard for your passion to become your personally concocted poison. I've had periods where I haven't made a single image in almost a year.
It's hard to reconcile the feeling of discovery and adventure that you found in restoring the old negs and graciously sharing them with all of us here and the great feedback the rolls generated, with the funk you now find yourself in. You cut brush, I split firewood. I guess you may just need to muck through this set of tasks, take a break, and then try to resolve for yourself whether you want to subject your mind to this again. Have a serious talk with the guy in the shaving mirror in the morning and see what you come up with. GF
You write some awsome truths ... would you like to be my councellor? :D
Seriously ... thanks. :)
Gray Fox
11-01-2010, 07:33
Keith: Glad you found the thoughts appropriate. Got to have that discussion with the guy in the mirror myself. Physician heal thyself, I guess. Best of luck from half way 'round the globe. GF
After I spend a night updating editing or scanner software, I want to yell, "This isn't what I signed up for!!!"
- Charlie
Keith - just saw this thread and I can certainly relate! Hope you've knocked these two jobs off now, but if not, just remember "there's nothin' to it, but to do it". A motto I struggle to live by...
I was thinking more in terms of personal rewards Wil. These paid jobs tie me in knots partially due to the perfectionist in me and partially due to not quite having total confidence in my output.<snip>
It is unlikely you really have a camera gear / shooting style / software / workflow / computer / publishing issue. It's likely more of orientation and personal expectations.
I once read the book "Too Perfect: When being in control gets out of control".
http://www.amazon.com/Too-Perfect-When-Being-Control/dp/0449908003
Perhaps that would help with a few ideas to get unstuck and move things along. The following suggestion resonates:
Keith, one thing you might try is turning off the 'internet critiques' in your head (shadow detail, blown highlights, missed focus). First, does the photo work for you and your client? Then post process the hopefuls.
Brilliant. I'm reminded of your Images / Photos / Snapshots thread. There's your A-game where you create images that are the best you can do. Then there is commercial work for a client, and the difference between delivering an A or a B-level product may not even be noticeable to the client.
The client typically wants the images as soon after the event as possible (sometimes during the event!). That's when the buzz is happening and the social conversation is still alive. Content rules at this time, and the details are rarely noticed.
Perhaps you could adopt a hybrid approach. Immediately after the event, review the digital images and select only the best. Widdle this down to 5 or so images that you can provide to the client almost immediately. Then, provide the remaining deliverable in a reasonable timeframe. This way, they have several images that represent the event that they can use for promotion, website use and other news-type functions. Plus, these will be your best images, so it increases the chance of the client circulating an image you really like. People will probably never even see the other 80% of images you deliver later, which you completed without so much pressure and post-processed knowing it was part B.
Now, to the gear / workflow / etc: these things don't hurt either, once you're ready to tackle the job and put out an appropriate product.
<snip>Might I suggest a basic upgrade to speed it up a little bit? I know when I have to work with a slow computer it makes me want to tear my hair out.
If you're on a windows PC, you should be able to upgrade the RAM very easily. For maybe $100-$200 you could double or triple the ram, and speed it up considerably. That way you mightn't have to convert the RAW files to TIFFs in the first place.
+1. A RAM upgrade is one of the best bangs for the buck. You mentioned a new computer will be put together for you in the next month or two. It might be worth looking at the planned system, and then buy just the memory now if it will work in your current computer. Use it for the next couple months, then move it over to the new computer when that arrives. You can put the current memory back in the existing computer and save that as a dedicated scan unit so scanning can run while you post process on another machine.
ACDSee Pro pretty well does all of what Lightroom does but with an interface that I'm totally familiar with and when I tried Lightroom I soon realised that there was no real advantage for me.
<snip>
Maybe so. I will say the additional publishing features in LR 3 are a great addition. Presets are super as well. The catalog feature can be very handy in narrowing down the images and arriving at a final set for processing. This post hits right on this:
x3. I watched a friend I shoot with do in an hour what takes me (it seems) an entire weekend. I think it's true that achieving some fluency with computer PP is the key to keeping your sanity. :p
Also, as someone mentioned, don't waste time processing any images that may not be included in the final product.
Wish you the best with this Keith, it can certainly be difficult when the post-processing piles up. Unfortunately, there is not easy answer..
jan normandale
11-01-2010, 10:21
@Keith. This thread is curiously close to my present circumstances. I'm scanning and editing images from about 20 years of graffiti in Toronto. I'm now at a point where the whole process has become a chore. I don't think I'll do a project of this nature again now I understand all of the implications. Much of the process is like the proverbial iceberg, it's only 10 percent visible the other 90 percent is hidden from view.
I think you have to be narrow minded and driven to finish. Drop all outside communication that's not in line with your project. Set a daily maximum time for online recreation and socializing. Set and work a daily minimum for the work. It's grunt work but no one knows it better than you do. Finally accessing the various software and using it where it provides a time savings should be used where ever possible.
I'm closing now because my daily allotment of time for online recreation is just about used up.
Good luck!
Ronald M
11-01-2010, 11:23
Farm ot out like the old days. Proof prints and get a CD burned.
That means making JPEGS.
If you mist make raw files, I oepn them all in raw, do a stock curve and generic sharpening and select all, then synchronise these common settings. Then open individually and customise exposure, contrast, and whatever. Then reselect all and open in PS for last twaaking.
Write some action to downsize and do generic sharpening. Automate. You can not obsess over every individual pic unless it is for a publication.
LR does this perhaps more simply, but with less control.
jsrockit
11-01-2010, 11:47
I think I may be one of the few that actually prefers post production on a computer to working in a darkroom. I can edit while the TVs on, sit in a comfy chair, even eat while doing PP these days... and I can do it at all hours of the day (well, can't print at night with an inkjet though).
That said, there are time when I don't feel like rushing... and pics take awhile to get done. If it's a job, then you just have to do what you have to do. If it's for your own pics, let it sit until you feel like dealing with them. I find it better for editing as well when you let them sit.
charjohncarter
11-01-2010, 12:09
The wedding photographers around here are going crazy too. Those brides have way to many choices now.
jan normandale
11-01-2010, 22:17
The wedding photographers around here are going crazy too. Those brides have way to many choices now.
LaL.. you're breaking me up!! You're too close to the mark :- )
One pro told me that once he used to just send his work all to a colour lab but now clients expect a quick turn around and many many images from one session and he ends up working in front of a computer for hours on at a time. He does not enjoy it.
I, on the other hand am an amateur so I am under no pressure to spend hours on my digital colour shots.
As a working pro myself not weddings just news so I don't shoot that much I find that once the job is done I have to immediately start editing etc or I will find the job tedious.
If I'm on a tight deadline I set my cameras drive to slow (Canon Mk3s) or use my 5ds so I don't shoot too much.
Good luck, I know you want to do the best job you can but sometimes pay=your time/effort.
Soothsayerman
11-10-2010, 12:11
I don't like doing it either. For some reason, if it's work someone is paying me for, it's just not as fun and I have to sit down and force myself to do it. I used to put it off, but now I do it as quickly as possible to get it over with and out of my sight.
Keith,
William Eggleston once wrote that he only ever takes one shot of a motif. That way he doesn't have to choose which is the best.
The digital age has has led to a massive increase in the number pictures we take and have to deal with. But are we producing better pictures?
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