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amateriat
10-21-2010, 13:10
I haven't paid much more than passing attention to the whole digital-negative process, not because I didn't think it was worthwhile, but because it didn't really apply to the hybrid workflow I've used for over a decade (film on the front end, digital on the post-shoot back end). I paid even less attention when I found an inkjet-based printing system that was as reliable/repeatable as it was visually satisfying (HP Photsmart Pro 8750, which I've been using for the past five years). But when I found out about a DN system (http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/main/index.jsp?zn=gap&cp=20000-20058-20295-20457%5E321990_4041_100__&jumpid=re_r10931%7Cen-us%7Caug10%7Cga%7Cipg%7Cfeatures%7Cerwitt%7CVLPMai n) that even Elliott Erwitt has gotten on-board with I had to check it out; not necessarily for my own work (well, who knows?), but just to discover how an old dog learns new tricks. (The platinum process, that is, not Erwitt, dog lover that he is.)


- Barrett

robert blu
10-21-2010, 13:38
Some people are more young and open to new things than what their "numeric" age would let think...
robert
PS I'm getting old, but not (yet) so open...

Jamie123
10-21-2010, 14:45
I don't think it's really about not being open to new things. It's rather a question of having enough money to spend. My local pro lab charges $1'500 for an 8x10'' platinum palladium print. That's for the proof print. After that it's $200/print for a minimum of 5 prints. So an edition of 5 8x10'' prints comes in at $2'500. An edition of 5 20x24'' prints is almost $4'500.

[email protected]
02-05-2011, 22:42
I'm surprised that, at this point, anyone would be satisfied with the B&W output from the HP 8750. I knew that my B&W prints looked slightly greenish and sickly under natural light, but I was shocked when I compared them to some recently-done darkroom prints. I went back and compared all my prints done on the 8750, with a variety of papers including Gold Silk Baryta, Epson Fine Art, and HP Premium Plus. All were a sickly green, with poor blacks, and poorer whites compared to the Ilford RC silver prints. Almost all were printed in grayscale with only the 102 cartridge. As soon as I can afford it, the 8750 goes on craigslist for free.

sojournerphoto
02-05-2011, 23:26
I'm surprised that, at this point, anyone would be satisfied with the B&W output from the HP 8750. I knew that my B&W prints looked slightly greenish and sickly under natural light, but I was shocked when I compared them to some recently-done darkroom prints. I went back and compared all my prints done on the 8750, with a variety of papers including Gold Silk Baryta, Epson Fine Art, and HP Premium Plus. All were a sickly green, with poor blacks, and poorer whites compared to the Ilford RC silver prints. Almost all were printed in grayscale with only the 102 cartridge. As soon as I can afford it, the 8750 goes on craigslist for free.


The platinum process ues the z3200, which can already make good black and white, but actually uses a mixture of black and green inks to make a negative for contact printing.

Jamie Pillers
02-05-2011, 23:51
Hi Barrett,
The idea of making digital negatives has been around for many years now. Its a real boon to anyone that wants to try alternative contact printing processes. Not everyone wants to lug around a 5x7 or 8x10 camera to make large negatives conducive to contact printing. So, pretty much with the advent of inkjet printers, people figured out how to use them to make large negatives from small ones. :)

There are a number of excellent resources on the web explaining how to create beautiful digital negatives with inkjet printers. I have a book by Dan Burkholder, published in 1995 ("Making Digital Negatives for Contact Printing"). Its a nice, small, straightforward text.

The Elliot Erwitt/HP video makes the whole process look incredibly expensive. But that's if you want to make a huge final print. Making smaller, say 5x7 or 8x10, platinum/palladium prints using digital negatives created from 35mm or medium format film or from digital camera files can be relatively inexpensive.

I think you can still get Dan's book at www.danburkholder.com

MartinP
02-06-2011, 01:15
You can also use this sort of direct positive film (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/www.mahn.net/TAgenie.pdf) (that's a PDF information sheet, so you'll need a PDF reader to open it). Happily the direct-pos film is much cheaper than buying an inkjet printer and awesomely expensive inks etc. - unless you already have that sort of thing of course.

amateriat
02-06-2011, 02:29
I'm surprised that, at this point, anyone would be satisfied with the B&W output from the HP 8750. I knew that my B&W prints looked slightly greenish and sickly under natural light, but I was shocked when I compared them to some recently-done darkroom prints. I went back and compared all my prints done on the 8750, with a variety of papers including Gold Silk Baryta, Epson Fine Art, and HP Premium Plus. All were a sickly green, with poor blacks, and poorer whites compared to the Ilford RC silver prints. Almost all were printed in grayscale with only the 102 cartridge. As soon as I can afford it, the 8750 goes on craigslist for free.

Green? That's news to me: other than a slight warming I've noticed under certain incandescent light (observed with silver prints as well, albeit a bit less pronounced), I've never seen any significant color shift, let alone a green shift, in my b/w prints via the 8750, and I've made a lot of prints with the thing. (Note that I print exclusively on HP Premium/Premium Plus paper.)

Mind you, comparing any inkjet print to a good silver print, regardless of process/ink/paper/printer, is something of a fool's errand. A silver print is a silver print, period. An inkjet print can be, qualitatively speaking, the equal of a silver print, but it won't be "the same." Ditto for platinum, bichromate, and other processes now deemed "alternative." I tend to liken a really good inkjet print to the photogravure process, which itself carries its own details and visual subtleties.These days, I'm just happy to see someone's work in print form at all, rather than on a screen (or, worse, one of those retched digital picture frames, a cultural anachronism if ever I saw one).


- Barrett

Arjay
02-06-2011, 02:41
What an interesting link - thank you!

I wonder if creating DN's might also be a way to solve the archiving dilemma we are all faced as we want to preserve our pictures beyond the next five computer (and storage technology) generations.

[email protected]
02-06-2011, 18:51
Green? That's news to me: other than a slight warming I've noticed under certain incandescent light (observed with silver prints as well, albeit a bit less pronounced), I've never seen any significant color shift, let alone a green shift, in my b/w prints via the 8750, and I've made a lot of prints with the thing. (Note that I print exclusively on HP Premium/Premium Plus paper.)

Mind you, comparing any inkjet print to a good silver print, regardless of process/ink/paper/printer, is something of a fool's errand. A silver print is a silver print, period. An inkjet print can be, qualitatively speaking, the equal of a silver print, but it won't be "the same." Ditto for platinum, bichromate, and other processes now deemed "alternative." I tend to liken a really good inkjet print to the photogravure process, which itself carries its own details and visual subtleties.These days, I'm just happy to see someone's work in print form at all, rather than on a screen (or, worse, one of those retched digital picture frames, a cultural anachronism if ever I saw one).


- Barrett

Hi,
The green cast I've described is noticeable under natural light, such as near a window. It's less noticeable under artificial light. This has been true across a wide range of papers and countless OEM cartridges.

monochromejrnl
02-06-2011, 19:25
What an interesting link - thank you!

I wonder if creating DN's might also be a way to solve the archiving dilemma we are all faced as we want to preserve our pictures beyond the next five computer (and storage technology) generations.

"Digital negs" made on inkjets aren't archival, however I know of at least one lab in Toronto that is experimenting with using a lambda laser exposing device to expose roll film (Fuji and Ilford) to produce a true silver negative which can then be used for contact printing (Pt/Pl, carbon, etc.)

I'm made a few Pt/Pl prints from digital negs produced on an Epson R2880 and I've been extremely pleased with the results.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5185744520_ed820f09cc_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5185738438_23f7daed3c_b.jpg