View Full Version : Which to black paint: M2 or M3?
Simple question for someone really considering getting a black-painted M. If you have an M3 and an M2 in similar condition, which one do you get black-painted?
Thanks!
coelacanth
10-13-2010, 19:03
I'd go with M2. There is something special about the film counter dial on M2, at lease for me. I think it will look awesome either black painted or left silver for a Panda job.
ItsReallyDarren
10-13-2010, 20:00
I have a spare M3 top plate. I'm planning on trying my hand at painting the piece soon. I've found a silversmith and narrowed down my paint options. Hopefully sometime in the coming weeks I'll have picked up some experience painting these cameras before deciding to go through with my M3.
robklurfield
10-13-2010, 20:09
Do 'em both and sell one to me.
I see that everyone has caught the logic of why I didn't include options [C]both or [D]none. :-) This is not about whether to paint black, but which one is better in black. I figure I can afford one Shintaro job sometime in the next few months. So, this is a definite either-or for me.
coelacanth
10-13-2010, 20:19
My vote on M2 still stands.
Disc film counter is the main thing here. I think it would look real nice. I wish either my M2 was black or my BP MP had M2 style counter...
Oh and I'm sure M2 would be a bit easier to paint due to simpler top plate design, film counter/pointer.
BTMarcais
10-13-2010, 21:31
Well, I voted M3. (the only one so far!)
There's just something about the lines and the raised windows on the M3 that I love, and after handling a (original!) black paint M3, I'm not sure that there's any better looking camera out there.
-Brian
m2 is a bit easier if you are doing it yourself.
Alpacaman
10-13-2010, 23:58
Which one gets more use?
damien.murphy
10-14-2010, 01:48
If it was me, it would be the M2, as my preference for black M's lays in their greater discreetness on the street, and when I'm shooting on the street it is with a 35mm lens for which the M2 has a frameline. I kinda regret selling my M6 for this reason, as the black-bodied M6 would almost disappear when slung across my chest over a black top.
What does a repaint cost by the way ?
EDIT: AH, just checked out Shintaro's page. Quite nice, although expensive enough to rule out an impulse paint :)
Sug, Brian - I think you hit on two key issues in terms of how black paint wears.
Damien - Equally important, which one will actually become worn. (M2 is in the mail, so it is TBD over the next few months *before* I commit to a paint job.) Presently, I tend to use the M3 as my go-to night camera because I get accuracy with the 50/1.2 and 35/1.2. I don't know how my usage will change when the M2 arrives.
Damien, Fraser - I'm in Japan, as is Shintaro. The yen is strong, and he takes payment in dollars. This will be a pro job if the currency stars stay aligned. ($500 ~ Y42000 last I checked)
I have a spare M3 top plate. I'm planning on trying my hand at painting the piece soon. I've found a silversmith and narrowed down my paint options.
I may be missing something here. What does a silversmith have to do with painting a camera?
I voted for the M2, by the way. BP M2's are way cool.
check out this m3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rjagitsch/3609308079/in/set-72157619279145757/)
nobbylon
10-14-2010, 05:27
I know some like pandas but to me it always looks like half a job. If you are going to do or have it done then for me it should look like the originals as far as possible. The only parts that are a pain to do are the film reminder dial on the back door and the strap lugs.
I may be missing something here. What does a silversmith have to do with painting a camera?
Silversmith can use reverse electrolysis to strip off the chrome.
Or else maybe he's having rubies or emeralds studded in the camera. Gold-plated? A Sultan of Brunei model??
I would not want to mess with the Queen of all Leica cameras.
The M2 can be painted black ...
aperture64
10-14-2010, 14:56
Who does this and how much does it cost?
illumiquest
10-14-2010, 15:07
The Shintaro guy's site says 500$ for a body. For that price I'd rather just buy another body, a bit of black tape and 40 cases of beer.
coelacanth
10-14-2010, 15:19
Robert's site rangefinderrestorations.com is gone. Last time I heard, I thought he was working on a redesign of the site. Does anyone know if he's still in business??
Curse the super weak USD. I have no JPY bank account... :(
SHintaro is worth it - in that if he paints your camera, you'll likely get your money back. I did.
But as for getting your camera back... did jaapv ever get his?
ItsReallyDarren
10-14-2010, 15:37
Robert's site rangefinderrestorations.com is gone. Last time I heard, I thought he was working on a redesign of the site. Does anyone know if he's still in business??
Curse the super weak USD. I have no JPY bank account... :(
The site was moved over to http://restoration35.com/
last time I spoke with Robert he was not accepting new cameras to paint. I'm still waiting on a part from him.
CCR Luton offers to repaint cameras. I've seen a few around here that he's worked on.
sepiareverb
10-14-2010, 16:09
M2. The film counter on my MP3 is really a nice touch.
This (http://www.luxecase.com/front/php/product.php?product_no=233&main_cate_no=26&display_group=2) isn't mine, but gives a good look at one.
coelacanth
10-14-2010, 16:11
The site was moved over to http://restoration35.com/
last time I spoke with Robert he was not accepting new cameras to paint. I'm still waiting on a part from him.
CCR Luton offers to repaint cameras. I've seen a few around here that he's worked on.
Thanks Darren. Maybe he's not accepting new orders now, but I'm glad he's still in business. I've been thinking of BP M2 for a long time...
Mister E
10-14-2010, 17:45
Well which camera can you do without for 3 years while Shintaro paints it? I've not seen his actual paint jobs, but they look VERY nice, but still not as good as an original would look. I had crackhead Masa paint two cameras for me and they both came out looking bad enough that I wished I never had them painted. I know Shintaro is awesome, but as much as I love black cameras I'd rather just keep my cameras chrome than deal with all that stress again.
Maddoc has a Shintaro painted SP, how's it look compared to the authentic 2005 SP Jon has?
I would not want to mess with the Queen of all Leica cameras. The M2 can be painted black ...
Bingo. And the frame counter dial will look badass.
I've got a pal who shoots bike frames (http://radfinishes.com/radfinishes/HOME.html) professionally, and I've thought from time to time of having him do an M2 for me in Imron. Maybe midnight blue with black Griptac...?
jonmanjiro
10-14-2010, 19:56
Well which camera can you do without for 3 years while Shintaro paints it? I've not seen his actual paint jobs, but they look VERY nice, but still not as good as an original would look. I had crackhead Masa paint two cameras for me and they both came out looking bad enough that I wished I never had them painted. I know Shintaro is awesome, but as much as I love black cameras I'd rather just keep my cameras chrome than deal with all that stress again.
Maddoc has a Shintaro painted SP, how's it look compared to the authentic 2005 SP Jon has?
Gabor's repainted SP is a little more glossy than my SP 2005. It's pretty close to an original black paint SP, and looks waaaaaaay better than that S2 Masa painted for you. Chalk and cheese.
I think Shintaro works best under pressure. Just tell him you're dropping by to pick the camera up on (insert date) and he'll get it done by then.
Mister E
10-14-2010, 20:32
Gabor's repainted SP is a little more glossy than my SP 2005. It's pretty close to an original black paint SP, and looks waaaaaaay better than that S2 Masa painted for you. Chalk and cheese.
I think Shintaro works best under pressure. Just tell him you're dropping by to pick the camera up on (insert date) and he'll get it done by then.
I have an S2 and an SP that I'd love to have painted but only if they come out looking as good as when they went in.
Re: cost. I enter the process knowing that anything I invest in the job will not be a lost cost. Shintaro jobs - be it because of the reputation of quality or waiting period - tend to fetch a pretty penny, especially in Japan. I don't plan to sell it, but it's always good to have an eye on the door. After all, I didn't expect to part with my P, but with the M2 en route, P's days may be numbered -- if only to keep me from envying how good Tom's looks in black.
Jon - will keep that advice in mind.
jonmanjiro
10-15-2010, 06:28
I have an S2 and an SP that I'd love to have painted but only if they come out looking as good as when they went in.
Nate, FYI earlier tonight I compared my SP 2005 with Shintaro's repainted SP and S. The paint on his SP (same as Gabor's SP) is not as glossy as I remember and looks almost identical to my SP 2005, but his S is a little more glossy (intentionally so because it suits the earlier camera better).
I don't think you can compare Shintaro and any of the other people mentioned. Even Peter at CRR, who is a genius, doesn't get as close to a period feel - altho I admittedly haven't seen his repaints from the last couple of years. SHintaro's just looks glossier, but not too glossy, and harder.
I had him do my M4, then when I got a tax bill and downsized to a ratty M3, I got back all the money I put into it, here on RFF; I still get people occasionally email me regretting they didn't buy it. That said, I didn't use the camera as much as I should have, partly because such a nice-looking machine is a bit inhibiting.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/greenwichpaul/ptm4.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/greenwichpaul/ptm4.jpg
(Is anyone sle having a problem with photobucket??? All img tags are present and correct...)
umcelinho
10-15-2010, 07:53
M3, the details around the windows make it look more interesting imho.
Sorry, I don't understand. What is the sense of painting a Leica?
Wish I had an M2....
80% M2. 19% M3. !% confused.
dacookieman
10-16-2010, 23:48
Definitely a M2, all you'll ever need. :)
LeicaTom
10-17-2010, 01:39
After the IIIC K Grey..........................the BP 1956/7 MP and the M3 BP (Swedish Army/Black Film Counter) cameras are the BEST looking painted Leica's ever made :)
*Note I didn't mention the Black painted IIIC ~ while with less than 200 Leitz Eigenturm BP cameras made, they don't count, while there's maybe 40 or less still around.....but the 1946/7 "Flat Top" IIIC looks really good when painted Black too :D*
Tom
Kim Coxon
10-17-2010, 14:31
M2 or M3? I will leave that up to you.
As to CRR, this is one of Roberts
Kim
Kim Coxon
10-17-2010, 14:33
Roberts paint finish on mine was slightly matt rather than high gloss but that was to match the M6.
Kim
JayGannon
10-17-2010, 14:46
Would I be terrible to ask how much the M3 painting cost you? And what was the turnaround like?
Kim Coxon
10-17-2010, 16:26
The full story is here. It was a while ago. ;)
Kim
Would I be terrible to ask how much the M3 painting cost you? And what was the turnaround like?
Received the M2 last night. Looks nice. given the lenses that would go on it more often are black, I think my mind may be made-up. Thanks! First things first - zip some fomapan 200 through it and see what it can do!
How about Black, Powder Coating a M body? I would do this for a "working" body, as the surface is very strong and fairly scratch-proof. A friend builds telescopes professionally and uses White and Black Powder Coating on the tubes. They look great. Anyone tried this?
p.
M3 repainted German army green by Shintaro a few years ago. His work is beautiful, but you'll need to be patient.
Here is a M2 swapped all the chrome with original Leica black paint / black chrome parts...:)
johannielscom
12-02-2010, 12:19
Here is a M2 swapped all the chrome with original Leica black paint / black chrome parts...:)
where did you find those parts? I have a black M3 DS made up from (mostly original) spare parts and in the future would like an M2 to go with it. Write me off the board at johan@portretteur.nl about it if you like!
where did you find those parts? I have a black M3 DS made up from (mostly original) spare parts and in the future would like an M2 to go with it. Write me off the board at johan@portretteur.nl about it if you like!
Hello buzzardkid, I suggest not to go to that route since it'll cost you much more than repaint. Cheers.
johannielscom
11-17-2011, 14:08
I'm not going to say anything.
In fact, I was going to post a picture only, but this thread apparently does not allow posting pictures? :eek:
Here's the link: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/5102525785_d9372b2411_o.jpg
Not by intention. Beginner's mistake?
Nice M3 there.
I sent my M2 to Shintaro at the start of February. Much anticipation on this end.
nobbylon
11-18-2011, 00:45
Nearly 10 months gone by. Any word on it?
adamjohari
11-18-2011, 00:57
Could someone explain to me as to why it takes so long to repaint a Leica M? I've heard it may take up to a year. :eek:
Confused
nobbylon
11-18-2011, 01:27
Because he's a working photographer and does it in his spare time. I think there is also an eliment of perfectionism to Shintaro and because he has the reputation he does has the attitude 'if you don't like waiting get it done somewhere else'.
He obviously doesn't need the money!
It always makes me smile reading stories about how long it takes with him. I'd like to see how one of his stands up to use.
The problem now is that a cheap M2 rarely turns up and due to all the stories around waiting time it's a bit of a punt to just send him a body in the hope it will turn up 1-3 yrs down the line!
His and Lumiere's are definately the most period finish.
Nearly 10 months gone by. Any word on it?
Initially, I was quoted 2 months. I had a vacation coming, so I inquired on how it was going. He sent it directly to me with the caveat that he was not satisfied with the finish, so please see how it wears and return for a repaint if dissatisfied. However, the levers (preview, timer) fell out immediately. Not being a mechanic and realizing it would not be suitable to take on a trip, i sent it back and emailed him. I have since heard nothing. I mailed after a few more months, but no replies. So, I am patiently accepting my spot in line and hoping that camera rustlers didn't interdict the package. To be fair, i did tell him to take the time needed to get things to a point where he was comfortable with the work he had done.
I do miss having it, though.
adamjohari
11-18-2011, 07:26
I recently sent my Leica M3 to Malcolm Taylor to fix my light leaks. Haven't really tested the camera to see whether the light leaks have been fixed :( cause I've been busy lately.
Anyways, when I was on the phone with him I asked if he could repaint my Leica M3 to black. Apparently he used to do it, but not anymore. He said he had some clients that were dissatisfied with getting their cameras back after a few months, as it took awhile for him to do it. I tried a few times to convince him but he wouldn't budge. Haha.
Adam
elmer3.5
11-18-2011, 11:01
Hi, i would paint the m2 because of the frame counter, itīs far easier to paint this type than the one with glass/plastic window.
When you take it apart by unscrewing it many times the thread goes bye bye, setting it again can be problematic.
Besides that painting the rest of the camera is basically the same.
Of course it depends a lot on condition stripping chrome can produce damage even if done with extreme precaution thereīs always hazard of ruining threads and other stuff, leicas are extremely precise machines and all matching parts are calculated to fit including chrome thickness.
Painting it alters radically thickness and tolerances between parts, for instance painting a lens is just hell, chrome, painted and anodized thincknesses and material behaviour are soooo different...
If the camera is not ugly donīt paint it.
Bye!
jonmanjiro
02-19-2013, 01:57
M2 is coming home soon!:angel:
Did you get your M2 back already, flip?
Jon,
It just arrived and it's gorgeous. The paint looks much better than the first go. The cameraleather covering looks better than when I put it on (I suspect Shintaro adjusted it). Finder is pristine. All the parts seem to be tight and working. I'm going to slap a roll through it quickly in advance of my Thai / Cambodia trip!
You two are friends. He mention anything about the way he resolve the issue with the finder de-cementing?
For the record, I hated to be a burr in his @$$ for the last 2 years; I hope he knows this.
Already have the A&A black silk strap on it. I'll post a picture soon.
P
jonmanjiro
02-19-2013, 15:46
Good news indeed Phil! I helped Shintaro move to his new place last March, and saw your M2 box and a dozen or so other boxes from around the world lined up neatly against a wall at his new place a safe distance from the chaos. But he's been insanely busy since then, so I haven't heard anything about how he fixed your M2. Will ask him the next time we catch up.
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