View Full Version : Do you think Fuji will release other focal lengths?
So do you think Fuji will release second and third versions of the X100 with approx 50 and 85 mm equivalent focal lengths? Or maybe other focal lengths. What do you think?
Nope
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antiquark
09-25-2010, 11:48
28 mm-equivalent in the future. I say that because the framelines have just enough room to be expanded to a focal length of 28mm:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5018026902_3c043be3d1_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/miserere/5018026902/)
Fuji X100 - view through optical viewfinder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/miserere/5018026902/) by Miserere (http://www.flickr.com/people/miserere/), on Flickr
M4streetshooter
09-25-2010, 11:54
I'm thinking that Fuji's thinking that we're all thinking about an interchangeable lens model.
I personally would not need another focal length for 2 daze past eternity but....
I talked with every street shooter that was ever borne or ever will be and most would like to see an interchangeable model.
We doin' need no stinkin' other focal lengths...
Man ain't no man can't see 35mm....
Sheeeesh!
And, I will say longer focal length is also possible...if a threaded eyepiece magnifier is added for the OVF. The EVF will take care of itself.
back alley
09-25-2010, 11:58
i would like one with a 24/25 lens on it. what a great kit that would make...
It may well be that with this camera Fuji is testing a new concept and design. If the camera will be successful I would not be surprised if they would bring a version with exchangeable lenses.
Concerning another fixed lens "X" cameras - I am not sure. Maybe 50 mm would sell, but I doubt how many users would actually buy a fixed 28 mm lens. I think with 35 mm fuji hit the sweet spot for travel fixed lens camera. Think of all the high end film compacts from the past (Hexar AF, Contax T3, Leica CM or similar)
I would actually like to see a zoom version - maybe 25-50 f/2.8-f/4 or even faster/longer. That would make it a great travel camera. I would not mind if the zoom would only work in 4 different positions (25, 28, 35, 50). But I am obviously biased by my recently acquired Fuji Silvi f2.8 which proved to be great during my holiday in Spain (as a "side" camera to Mamiya 6, of course ;) )
Steve Bellayr
09-25-2010, 13:05
No. Maybe if technology expands then a zoom lens. I am waiting for Leica's reply to this camera.
IF the X100 is successful, it would be relatively straightforward to augment it with an interchangeable lens version. It's not unthinkable, if we look at the example of the Hexar. Looking at the Xpan, I'd guess we'd have 28, 45 and 90mm lenses to choose from.
What I hope is that they'll adapt their newly developed technology to produce digitally-augmented rangefinder focusing.
M4streetshooter
09-25-2010, 13:14
More than likely, an optional lens converter will be available. Perhaps a 28, 50 and maybe 90. Screw it on the lens and yer good to go.
I'll bet if they do that, I won't be the only one abandoning ship.
Unfortunately, it's a distinct possibility!
MRohlfing
09-25-2010, 13:19
Why not M mount?
buzzardkid
09-25-2010, 13:22
The future is as clear as muddy coffee, who knows what will happen when, if ever.
Let's just see what the real thing looks like in March 2011, right? I mean, that's six months from now!:eek:
Why not M mount?
Because it adds a huge amount of complexity: an expensive precision bayonet mount, extra room in the body for a large focal plane shutter (as opposed to a simple in-lens leaf shutter), no way to optimize the lens/shutter combination, much more complicated calibration of lenses and bodies, and no way for the camera electronics to read the set aperture from the lens.
So, no M mount.
I think, IF this is camera does very well, (all the talk at all photography forums, shows it should),Fuji may very well introduce an Interchangeable lens camera with similar specks, But, a slightly different OVF (a zoom VF, or Frame Lines for a few primes... 18/23/35/55 (28/35/50/82 fov)?
Or a they could a similar series as the 645 RF
X100, (23mm/35 fov),
X100-W (15mm/20mm fov),
X100-N (35mm/50mm fov),
X100-T (55mm/82mm fov)
Although, A high IQ set of Add on converters, would be more accepted for those that want a versatile camera. For 21mm, 28mm, and 50mm fov conversions. The 82mm or 90mm Conversion may be a bit much for keeping the size down.
I'm not sure about 50mm, not speaking about 85mm. Neither of this focal lengths have been common in digital compacts, where most users demand either wide angle or 300-400mm eq. Well, if Fuji decide to make them for film camera users....that may happen.
Phil_F_NM
09-25-2010, 14:22
No, they won't. My $.02 USD
Phil Forrest
Ken Ford
09-25-2010, 14:37
I'd like it if they came out with a short tele version (75-85mm equivalent), but I seriously doubt it would happen. Looking at their past history of fixed lens MF RFs, you see them doing normal, wide and wider - no teles.
I'm not sure about 50mm, not speaking about 85mm. Neither of this focal lengths have been common in digital compacts, where most users demand either wide angle or 300-400mm eq. Well, if Fuji decide to make them for film camera users....that may happen.
But its targetted at pros. That means portrait.
Because it adds a huge amount of complexity: an expensive precision bayonet mount, extra room in the body for a large focal plane shutter (as opposed to a simple in-lens leaf shutter), no way to optimize the lens/shutter combination, much more complicated calibration of lenses and bodies, and no way for the camera electronics to read the set aperture from the lens.
So, no M mount.
I do not know about the M mount feasibility, but I would seriously doubt that Fuji would bring a multi-lens camera with each lens having a leaf shutter. Not that it limits the top speed to about 1/500, but it would raise the cost significantly as well. Also the light metering implementation would become more difficult I guess ...
wgerrard
09-25-2010, 14:50
Much depends, I think, on who Fuji decides is buying the X100. If that's typical P&S users who just want the panache of a retro-looking camera, I don't think they'd find much incentive to change anything.
If they decide that folks like us are buying the camera, then they have a real incentive to bring out different focal lengths and/or interchangeable lenses. The stereotypical snapshot shooter can't be bothered with such things.
who needs anything more for what this camera is?
35 is perfect!
a few steps back and you get wider, a few steps closer and you get longer....
there are great manual dials for a reason -- use them! and, as stated above, the legs can get a little action as well ;)
Much depends, I think, on who Fuji decides is buying the X100. If that's typical P&S users who just want the panache of a retro-looking camera, I don't think they'd find much incentive to change anything.
If they decide that folks like us are buying the camera, then they have a real incentive to bring out different focal lengths and/or interchangeable lenses. The stereotypical snapshot shooter can't be bothered with such things.
Well the point is that you can buy a handful of these things for the less than the price of a single M9. I'd happily buy 3 or 4 different focal length versions rather than pay for one M9. Just imagine, each viewfinder would be optimised for its focal length so you get a full(ish) frame viewing. No incy wincy patch for short tele lenses so you can see what you are doing.
I do not know about the M mount feasibility, but I would seriously doubt that Fuji would bring a multi-lens camera with each lens having a leaf shutter. Not that it limits the top speed to about 1/500, but it would raise the cost significantly as well. Also the light metering implementation would become more difficult I guess ...
I guess it works like just about any digital compact camera, with a relatively primitive in-lens leaf shutter that is open most of the time. I think it's called a semi-electronic shutter; all the leaf shutter does is close at the end of exposure, the rest is done electronically.
Metering is quite easy - if you look at a digital compact, you can see how the shutter is open most of the time.
Yeah the camera is perfect at 35mm. Any longer and it becomes too long as an only camera, any shorter and it can't be used for certain things. 35mm is the greatest allrounder. It's all about simplicity.
If they were to make an interchangeable lens model, it would HAVE to be a full frame. They tuned the sensor to the lens with the x100, to just chuck an interchangeable mount on it wouldn't work - they'd have to somehow tune the microlenses to the lens each time a new one is mounted, or just try and do a 'coverall' sort of thing. It wouldn't be as good.
I'm happy with the 35mm thanks. If I want interchangeable lenses or wider/longer lengths I'll use it with my already significantly more versatile DSLR - which is how it was designed to be used.
HoodedOne
09-25-2010, 15:12
I don't think fuji is gonna bring out the x100 with different focal lenghts. Like Cam said 35 is perfect, and sneaker-zoom never fails ( unless you're at the edge of a cliff).
But I really hope that (if the x100 proves succesfull), fuji will bring out a camera with intechangeable lenses.
If this camera is a hit then they will certainly bring out a new model.
If they can keep the quality high and cost below $1000, I would like to see all fixed lens cameras optimized for their sensor. Remember, this also means an optimized viewfinder and no sensor cleaning. That said, I would, as I do now, mostly use the 35mm on full frame. For marketing reasons, they would also do well with a 50mm equivalent camera. Most polls on this board show that 50mm is very popular. Longer and shorter lens/camera combination would probably not be as economically viable on the market. There might be room for a very fast 50mm mated to a future high ISO sensor at a premium price. First, they need to get the X100 off the ground.
wider maybe but certainly not longer.
I asked for 50 and 85 as well because that gives full height portrait and head and shoulders portrait as well as wider shots with the 35 equivalent. To me that would make a fantastic system for weddings. You have three bodies with you so you always have two backups and all three for around the price of $3000. That would be incredible value for money compared to any other system. No extra costs on lenses. And the really big plus is that all lenses can be fast. Maybe an 85 would only get to 2.8 as an f2 would be a bit big on such a small camera. Pros would snap them all up at that price point.
I wouldn't expect street people to snap them all up, but fuji say they are targetted at pros.
I wouldn't expect street people to snap them all up, but fuji say they are targetted at pros.
so street aren't pros?
so street aren't pros?
I think you know what I mean. Street don't usually use mid to short tele lenses. A lot of Pros do portrait work using mid to short tele.
Since these are not full frame sensors and given the need to keep the size down, a telephoto in the 75mm range just might work.
No. Maybe if technology expands then a zoom lens. I am waiting for Leica's reply to this camera.
i'm somehow very skeptical that Leica has what it takes to make such a camera........ Even the successor to the X1 is probably too short of a time for Leica to catch to other company's technology.
As an owner of M9 and a former owner of R-D1, for me, aside from the fullframe sensor, there is nothing in M9 that hasn't already been done by R-D1. Which is essentially only retrofitting digital into a film RF body.
I have no idea but, does leica even develop their own electronics and software? I thought jenoptics is doing it for them?
So as for the poll, i vote for wider focal length, if there are going to be any other focal length. That's how Fuji has been doing things it seems ;-)
dazedgonebye
09-25-2010, 17:05
They'll go with interchangeable.
They'll go with interchangeable.
If they do,
A body for under $1K, and lenses for $500, maybe a 25/28/35/50/90 fov with f/2,8 for the 25mm. f/2 for 28/35/50, and f/2.5 for the 90 fov.
but, what kind of VF? Frame lines?
Hybrid OVF with a built in magnifier from .5x for 25/28/35. and .72x or 1x for 50/90 lenses? , Plus EVF option if you want it live?
Best of both worlds......
Think Fuji is reading this thread?
I 'd say so :)
They'd be out of touch not to, IMO
M4streetshooter
09-25-2010, 17:40
Cam,
Any word on our 2 previous post....
Just wondering...
bensyverson
09-25-2010, 17:40
I really hope they DON'T go interchangeable. I wouldn't buy it. First of all, there are complications related to the OVF, as DNG mentioned above.
The potentially great thing about the X100 is that the sensor and lens are perfectly mated and optimized for each other. And of course you don't need to worry about sensor dust. An interchangeable system means a more general, compromised sensor.
But if this camera is a big success, I can imagine them doing a 17mm f/2.8 (28mm equivalent) or perhaps 15mm (24mm equivalent). Think of Ricoh's GR series.
Why not M mount?
Because SM mount sounds edgy, even for Sony.:p
There are several threads addressing the X100 on Rangefinderforum. In one of them (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1426447&postcount=1176) tom.w.bn, who has apparently seen the mockups, wrote that "there was another aspect the nice Fuji representative told me. The lens bayonet is designed to add converters in front of the lens." Nettar
We doin' need no stinkin' other focal lengths...
Man ain't no man can't see 35mm....
Sheeeesh!
That's about right. ;) ...but there's need, and there's want. And the second one I'd want is either 21 or 24mm.
28 and 50 I can do without, thanks. And teles belong on SLRs, anyway.
I believe they'll come up with either a 21 or a 25mm (equivalent) version. Probably 25mm, because that's a little 'safer'.
jsrockit
09-26-2010, 06:20
It'll be 28mm before any other focal length... if they ever make another one of these at all.
I think that a 21mm equivalent and an 85/90mm equivalent will be mandatory. If not, at least a couple of very high quality focal length converters to the tele and wide sides.
I tkink converters may be possible but can they reduce focal length from standard lens?
Also what about frame lines? Can that be done with firmware on this camera? The reason we don't have longer tele lenses on rangefinders is because of the miniscule frame lines. i.e. you can't see to frame and focus accurately. I think separate models with viewfinder designed for lens focal length would be better.
Ronald_H
09-26-2010, 07:58
No. Maybe if technology expands then a zoom lens. I am waiting for Leica's reply to this camera.
I hope you are a patient guy.
The current 35mm is nice (a 40 would be even better) but to lure me away from (mostly) film, it should have interchangeable lenses. Or maybe, just maybe a 28-90 f-fast, if it is exceptionally good.
I dont think they will, but then again I hope they do come out with a 50 f1.8 or something like that, my wife would jump on that, she is already really interested in this camera, more so then I have ever seen her for a camera, but she is a 50 fan not a 35.
narsuitus
09-26-2010, 08:24
I shot many events with two 35mm bodies and a 35mm f/2 or f/1.4 on one body and an 85mm f/1.8 on the other body.
If I had an X100 with an f/2 35mm equiv lens and an X100 with an f/2 85mm equiv lens, I would not need interchangeable lenses because these are the only two focal lengths I really need. Anything wider, longer, closer (macro), or fishier, I would shot with my SLR.
If, however, Fuji insists on producing a wider wide-angle version of the X100, I hope it will be in the 18 to 21mm equivalent focal length range.
M4streetshooter
09-26-2010, 08:26
Fuji is good but their not nuts.
I can see a zoomie version coming out.
That would draw the non serious RF shooters.
To make different bodies with different focal lengths is to good to be true.
A zoomie from 28 - 90 gets it done, easier and cheaper.
I don't want that one at all....
With so many different opinions, do we ever get what we want?
......The current 35mm is nice (a 40 would be even better)......
If one accepts digital zoom to no smaller than 6Mp [like the R-D1], the X100 is equipped with a 35~46mm zoom. If one adopts the couple of steps back/forth method on top of that, the lens is a 25~65 zoom...
That cannot be such a hardship...can it?
With so many different opinions, do we ever get what we want?
Yes, if they come through with what they have shown at Photokina.
jsrockit
09-27-2010, 04:58
With so many different opinions, do we ever get what we want?
Nope... despite hundreds of cameras being on the market at the same time, I never feel anyone gets it exactly right... :D
buzzkill58
09-27-2010, 10:42
Why not M mount?
I second that thought!
I second that thought!
There is already the Epson R-D1 with 1.5 multiplier. But yea, why not an other one, if Fuji can do it even better. The best would be FF then of course. I wouldn't be against a X100 with 28mm prime either.
Mephiloco
09-28-2010, 08:59
If the X100 does well I think Fuji would continue to do as they have done in the past with their Pro line of cameras. If they determine it'll be profitable, I'm sure they'll make a few models of different focal lengths, and maybe a ZI model with a zoom.
I think interchangeable lens is out of the question for the time being, it'd likely be a couple years down the road unless they'd already decided to create one regardless of how the X100 does.
Anyways, If they were to make an interchangeable body, what mount would it take? u4/3 is too small to cover the sensor, and pretty much everything else would be unnecessarily large and wouldn't balance well on the body. M-mount is an obvious no-no because they wouldn't stand to make money on the lenses, and by making it M mount you'd be dooming the camera to being a 'Leica alternative', thus alienating prospective buyers who dont already own Leica lenses or don't care for manual focus
If the X100 does well I think Fuji would continue to do as they have done in the past with their Pro line of cameras. If they determine it'll be profitable, I'm sure they'll make a few models of different focal lengths, and maybe a ZI model with a zoom.
I think interchangeable lens is out of the question for the time being, it'd likely be a couple years down the road unless they'd already decided to create one regardless of how the X100 does.
Anyways, If they were to make an interchangeable body, what mount would it take? u4/3 is too small to cover the sensor, and pretty much everything else would be unnecessarily large and wouldn't balance well on the body. M-mount is an obvious no-no because they wouldn't stand to make money on the lenses, and by making it M mount you'd be dooming the camera to being a 'Leica alternative', thus alienating prospective buyers who dont already own Leica lenses or don't care for manual focus
Designing or manufacturing a lens mount is not magic...despite fan clubs in each type. [I have even seen a 42mm screw mount home-made converted to bayonet by hand filing away alternate segments of thread [in body and lens]...just insert lens and twist a quarter turn.]
The issue is one of flange-to-sensor distance and business strategy:
Flange-to-sensor distance: SLR mounts are too far away...requiring thick body without a mirror box. The M-mount is 28mm, the u4/3 mount is 20mm and the NEX mount is 18mm. A shallower mount can be adapted to deeper mounts...essentially adding a metal shim ring. So, add 10mm for NEX and 8mm for u4/3 and the M-lenses will focus correctly.
I had carefully measured images of the X100 and had determined the flange-to-sensor distance to be 26mm.
Business strategy: If Fuji decides to make a new mount with diameter just smaller than the M...then an M-adapter is impossible, forcing new sales of Fujinon lenses. On the other hand, Fuji could easily made the mount diameter large enough so that a 2mm shim-ring adapter could be made...and Leica glass owners would be secretly very happy...but still denounce the camera.
Regardless, all in-camera automation would no longer function...and another round of M-fan criticisms.
If I were Fuji, I would simply make a new mount...and ignore the M-noises.
Roger Hicks
09-28-2010, 11:04
The usual RFF fantasies: that they are going to sell a million of these cameras, and that a new line of telecentric lenses can be developed at no significant expense.
While I'd not be surprised to see a couple of variants -- ultrawide and short tele, 18 equivalent and 75 equivalent -- I'd be even less surprised if they don't appear. As for a 28 equivalent when there's already a 35 equivalent, well, dream on.
Purely commercially, imagine the expense to a dealer of stocking three slow-selling, expensive cameras instead of one. Why do you think Leica dropped the viewfinder magnification options, except à la carte?
Cheers,
R.
Roger's telling us we're a very small tent. The cheek of it!
Careful measurement indicates the OVF could accommodate a 25mm equivalent FoV @ 90%. Wider yet if we accept 85% coverage...Leica style.
If longer focal lengths are offered, a screw-in eyepiece magnifier can be used. Adding a thread in the deep eyepiece well is simple enough...even Hong Kong suppliers offer Leica M-compatible 1.25X and 1.4X.
[I have not yet found a well-lit picture on the Internet showing the thread.]
In all cases, the EVF can take care of itself.
The usual RFF fantasies: that they are going to sell a million of these cameras (...)
I bet they will. The uneducated masses, plagued by little boxes with tiny TV screens that marketing departments and press call cameras, will discover a revolutionary new technology: the viewfinder. And they'll buy. A lot. Of these cameras.
Call me a fantasist. I don't mind. :)
(I almost bought one of those boxen, too, a Samsung NX100 with a prime lens that I would have used with an optical viewfinder. As reported, Fuji's X100 -- notice the similarity of the names? -- will be less expensive than such a setup is. So I'll wait for the real thing.)
MRohlfing
09-28-2010, 12:07
I own the 50 version of the X100 already :angel:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/10398/U10398I1285704714.SEQ.0.jpg
The usual RFF fantasies: that they are going to sell a million of these cameras, and that a new line of telecentric lenses can be developed at no significant expense.
While I'd not be surprised to see a couple of variants -- ultrawide and short tele, 18 equivalent and 75 equivalent -- I'd be even less surprised if they don't appear. As for a 28 equivalent when there's already a 35 equivalent, well, dream on.
Purely commercially, imagine the expense to a dealer of stocking three slow-selling, expensive cameras instead of one. Why do you think Leica dropped the viewfinder magnification options, except à la carte?
Cheers,
R.
Oh come on, these days delivery is so fast from importer to online retailer that online retailers don't need to stock. And since everyone is looking for a bargain they all buy online. They only use shops to look which is why they are all going bust except in major towns and cities. Pro cameras which are low volume items have always managed to sell in the past. And Canons and Nikons at twice or three the price are stocked and they aren't exactly fast selling items.
There are camera maker[s] opening boutiques in places like West Palm Beach...and staffed with suck-up artists. The whole purchase experience is just ego-indulgence.
Then there are retailers who stock everything with demo models tethered on benches and let customers play with them...Tokyo mega-mart style.
Then there are Internet retailers who really are virtual store fronts drop-shipping goods when ordered.
Profit margins are different and old business models don't apply anymore.
The issue is one of flange-to-sensor distance and business strategy
Flange distance is relevant only if they want to be able to adapt M-mount lenses. Speculating about flange distances is pointless, there is really no good business case M-mount - a lot of added complexity and cost, for the satisfaction of a very small group of customers, who also happen to be some of the most picky and easily-turned-off customers on the planet :rolleyes:
Models with different focal lengths might be a possibility (Sigma did that), but as a number of people have pointed out the odds aren't good.
Live with it guys, in all probability it's not going to happen. Use sneaker zoom instead.
damien.murphy
10-24-2010, 04:29
My personal preference would be for a 50mm equivalent, and/ or a Tri-Elmar type effort of 28-35-50. I don't see the next Fuji variation (if there is one) of the x100 being an interchangeable model, as too much on the x100 has been tailored to the 35mm-equivalent lens, and most users would not be happy to see an APS-sensor model given that used M8's can be had for $2k.
I do think the profits from the x100 will make this a very buoyant segment for Fuji, and will provide a good baseline and warchest to pursue an interchangeable model, but given Fuji's preference in the past to shy away from interchangeable models I can't see them going down such a route with the x100.
Personally, I don't see why an interchangeable model is needed should Fuji produce fixed lens models to cater to most peoples needs. I know 35mm, 50mm, 90mm and/ or a tri-elmar wide model would not cater to ALL the market, but it would probably satisfy a good 80% of the market.
Frankly though, this is all presuming a lot, and who is to say Fuji will produce anything other than the x100, and my personal suspicion is that Fuji probably have not looked beyond the 35mm-equivalent x100 which will satisfy a decent chunk of the RF userbase.
Naumoski
10-24-2010, 04:39
If the x100 concept is to be a fixed lens camera, than producing cameras with different focal lengths, for example - 24/35/50 etc, would mean producing 3 same bodies + 3 different lens. And would be less expensive for Fuji to produce 1 body with interchangeable lens mount, and it's less expensive to buy 1 camera + 3 lens, than 3 cameras + 3 lens, obviously.
We don't know their plans yet, or to which direction they want to focus - advanced P&S or cameras with interchangeable lens etc..?
J F Bland_Zeiss Ikon
10-24-2010, 05:25
Personal opinion - Fuji is kind of a fickle company. While they say they support film, they've used going green to cull the product line. While they manufacture film, their website no longer has film cameras, to the dismay of many. It feels like they've lost their way, or like many companies, they cater to their home market and pay lip service to their offshore satellites. The internal talk at Fuji is to press digital cameras, and they've been innovative with 3D models. As film sales have somewhat stabilized, they need digital to grow.
The EVF in the x100 looks like the heads up display in a fighter cockpit. This camera has a lot of innovations in it. The 35mm equiv. focal length makes a lot of sense, whether it's 40mm or 28mm can't make that much difference, but optimizing the system for image quality and utility does. With good optics, cropping and enlarging for the composition is a possibility.
Maybe we should look at this from Fuji's point of view. Filling a gap in the pro-sumer, pro line up. Charging a little more for convenience, nice features that cover a lot ground, light ,compact, dirt simple but almost a manual system and an aspirational price point. The early buzz is good. They know they were going to be compared to 4/3 and M mounts and opted to "perfect" the image chain to the majority of what they perceive as their target customers. Nobody really likes a Swiss knife approach, where everything works, but it's not optimal for anything. Here they said "x" marks and spot.
I say the x100 will evolve, but think that as others have stated, it may be individual focal lengths. There may be a lean way of doing the mfg. .
It's fun to watch.
Frank Petronio
10-24-2010, 05:45
Once they prove the concept, they'll probably use a similar viewfinder on a series of lower end zoom cameras that are more consumer friendly and profitable.
I've been off on this camera so far -- I called the price out at $2000 -- but my instinct is that these companies use their high-end cameras as beta test programs that guys like us will pay for, but what they are really aiming for is to sell 100x $500 cameras at Best Buy.
They probably figure that if they introduce the concept of a EVF rangefinder style to the consumer market, nobody will notice. By aiming at the more serious prosumer market they get proof of concept and lots of beta testers.
And sure, they know there is a pent-up demand for a camera like this, they'll sell out max production for the first six months unless the reviews are horrid.
Roger Hicks
10-24-2010, 05:57
Once they prove the concept, they'll probably use a similar viewfinder on a series of lower end zoom cameras that are more consumer friendly and profitable.
I've been off on this camera so far -- I called the price out at $2000 -- but my instinct is that these companies use their high-end cameras as beta test programs that guys like us will pay for, but what they are really aiming for is to sell 100x $500 cameras at Best Buy.
They probably figure that if they introduce the concept of a EVF rangefinder style to the consumer market, nobody will notice. By aiming at the more serious prosumer market they get proof of concept and lots of beta testers.
And sure, they know there is a pent-up demand for a camera like this, they'll sell out max production for the first six months unless the reviews are horrid.
Dear Frank,
They do? Where from? A few hundred people in places like RFF may say they'd buy one, of whom maybe 10% will find the money. Even if it's a few thousand with 10% sell-through, that's not many cameras by Fuji's standards.
I'm not saying the X100 is a bad idea. I'm hoping to get one for review. All I'm saying is that the excitement in some quarters may lead some people to hope for some things that are unlikely to happen.
Cheers,
R.
wgerrard
10-24-2010, 16:25
The obvious answer to the question is that if initial X100 sales are high enough, Fuji might entertain the idea of releasing variant models. I'd guess that sales will reach that point only if Fuji can get mass market stores to carry the thing. I don't think they will because people will look at the camera and think "retro operation" as well as "retro look".
Many of the attributes most of us around here look for in a camera are precisely the attributes that turn off most consumers. That's why you won't see the X100 in very many of the big box stores. And that means the X100 will be invisible to the great mass of potential buyers.
Frank Petronio
10-24-2010, 16:56
Why wouldn't the sales be at least as good as, say, a Canon G12? or a Leica X1?
My gut tells me that with 300,000 graduates of college photography programs in the USA alone, there is a large market of serious amateurs who would understand the advantages of this camera.
Flange distance is relevant only if they want to be able to adapt M-mount lenses. Speculating about flange distances is pointless, there is really no good business case M-mount - a lot of added complexity and cost, for the satisfaction of a very small group of customers, who also happen to be some of the most picky and easily-turned-off customers on the planet :rolleyes:
Models with different focal lengths might be a possibility (Sigma did that), but as a number of people have pointed out the odds aren't good.
Live with it guys, in all probability it's not going to happen. Use sneaker zoom instead.
Why isn't it going to happen? They just released the GF670 and have announced the GF670W. Both will be lower volume sales than the X100 so why not the X100W or X100Tele ?
eddie1960
10-25-2010, 04:35
I don't think we'll see alternate models it fragments their market too much. Ultimately if it does well enough and the evil market continues to grow i could see it as a base for interchangeable lenses. I think this is just testing the waters myself. I do however imagine either fuji or an aftermarket chinese supplier will come up with converters to address the wide/tele market. I'm still interested as i think this could be a good walkabout camera if they get it right though i would have preferred a wider lens the 35 isn't bad (on my k10 i have an m 28 almost glued to it lately)
Why isn't it going to happen? They just released the GF670 and have announced the GF670W. Both will be lower volume sales than the X100 so why not the X100W or X100Tele ?
Yours is about the only argument why it might happen, but my money is on accessory wide/tele converters. I wouldn't mind being wrong though.
Let them bring the thing to market first and then see how it actually sells.
jsrockit
10-28-2010, 08:50
28mm version... :)
Flange distance is relevant only if they want to be able to adapt M-mount lenses. Speculating about flange distances is pointless, there is really no good business case M-mount - a lot of added complexity and cost, for the satisfaction of a very small group of customers, who also happen to be some of the most picky and easily-turned-off customers on the planet :rolleyes:
.
Agreed...I was not rooting for the true Leica'philes, rather common folks who might own CV and other lenses.
In any case, extra flange distance can be gained by making the body mount protruding somewhat from the body surface...3mm was gained this way in the R-D1 to accommodate the electronics and LCD behind the sensor.
But flange distance is not easily reduced without elbow room to use a recess mount...like some enlargers.
Hmmmm....
Let's assume the camera works fine and gets people's favour and attention.
On one hand, you have a camera which is perfectly integrated with its own lens (and WHAT a lens, for sure) this means excellent picture quality but low versatility.
About the "few steps back and forth" I don't agree, because perspectives changes a lot, it's not only a matter of "filling the frame", thus some more lenses would be nice, always with the benefit of an automatically magnified viewfinder. I'd say that whatever FL from 21 to 135 would be possible, but, if I'd have to name three which could come first they would be
1) 85/90 mm aov ( = 60 mm effective lens ) - it would come first, to give a certain "balance" to the offer. 2) Then it would come a 24/25 mm (16 mm lens) to satisfy wider shooters for a while. Third, would come a 50mm (35 mm lens). Then all the rest. The real plus would be a F/4 walkaround zoom, whose fl might vary depending on one's tastes, keeping as close as possible at 1:3 ration it might be 25-75 or 28-90 (my eventual choice, which could be also corrected better than a wider lens)
p.s.: I missed how fast is synchro-flash: 1/125? 1/250? or what ?
jsrockit
12-06-2010, 05:07
Get over it all... the camera is fixed lens. It will never have a zoom and that the lord for that.
I don't think they would. It's more probable that they will release an interchangeable lens version in the future to rival the young and growing market of M4/3 and NEX.
I don't think they would. It's more probable that they will release an interchangeable lens version in the future to rival the young and growing market of M4/3 and NEX.
They have a long history of fixed focal length cameras.
They have a long history of fixed focal length cameras.
If there would be EBC zoom lens like 24-50 on Zoom Date F2.8/Silvi F2.8 or 28-56 on DL Super Mini Zoom/Tiara Zoom, I wouldn't cry for fixed 35mm lens.
It's a nice camera, but fits only one of the tiniest of niches. "Niche" is something Fuji does well, but I predict a very small base of buyers for the X100. so like the two folders, Fuji better get their money on each one they sell. Look for high prices. This camera is not going to sell in great numbers. I don't expect it to be reasonably priced for what it proposes to deliver. And it is cute for the retro buyers. Unfortunately that's not a market that supports great numbers of product.
Still, I would never give up my big Fujica-Fuji Rangefinders and those wonderful EBC coated lenses (shooting huge rolls of film that is).
It's quite surprising to follow the discussions on the X100.
I'm still waiting for the current folder to break under $1000 on the used market (Yeah, I know... not likely). In addition, I will be watching for the X100 to break $500 used. That's what it's worth in my book.
I'll likely be pushing up daisies before an interchangeable variant of this camera arrives for purchace on US shores.
No. Maybe if technology expands then a zoom lens. I am waiting for Leica's reply to this camera.
I thought the X100 to be Fuji's response to the X1 Likea??
No?
Poll should have an interchangeable lens option. That will be the pressure point when I believe Fuji will eventually relent. Too much extra cash in selling multiple lenses.
jsrockit
09-08-2011, 05:00
I thought the X100 to be Fuji's response to the X1 Likea?? No?
Probably not. I would imagine the X100 was thought up before the X1. It takes time to develop these things.
Phil_F_NM
09-08-2011, 13:27
Right now the X100 is cool but I really would just like some Fujinon EBC lenses in M mount.
If the company follows their past builds though, they will probably do another focal length. Maybe a ~75mm since 35/75 is a popular and very versatile combo for the rangefinder die hards.
Mere conjecture...
Phil Forrest
back alley
09-08-2011, 13:42
i would buy one with a 75 equiv. in a heartbeat.
2 little cams that could do 90% of what i want...
willie_901
09-08-2011, 20:07
i would buy one with a 75 equiv. in a heartbeat.
2 little cams that could do 90% of what i want...
I feel the same way. The trouble is I am torn between a 50 mm and 75-90 mm.
back alley
09-08-2011, 20:13
i think 75 would be perfect...90 is too long for many applications, 50 too close to 35 if there will only be 2 cameras.
jsrockit
09-21-2011, 15:26
I'll take a 50mm version. I'm of the opinion that 50mm and 35mm are very different. No company, which is looking to make money, is going to make a 75mm fixed lens camera.
back alley
09-21-2011, 15:32
i would like a 35, a 50 and a 75 version...
then i would really be done!
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