View Full Version : Images Produced By Fujifilm X100
Does this camera produces a decent file/image? So much excitement over the form/ergonomics and so little information regarding end product.
I suspect that the camera has yet to reach the stage of development where Fujifilm feels comfortable with releasing pre-production samples of the camera for testing... duhhh.
Please post links here to actually images produced by the X100.
I fear we need to wait a bit longer. My understanding is that this camera is "being developed" and there are no working cameras yet, at least no "official" preproduction ones to my knowledge.
I fear we need to wait a bit longer. My understanding is that this camera is "being developed" and there are no working cameras yet, at least no "official" preproduction ones to my knowledge.
Correct, the announcement is a development announcement, not one of a new product.
I just read on Mike Johnston's site, The Online Photographer, that the models on display have a working viewfinder, but no sensor or any other worker parts.
That was my impression. The point being that all of this excitement is like a politician running for the first time with an unknown past. Everyone reads what they want and confuse their hopes and wishes for the real thing. Form certainly trumps the X1, but offerings from Ricoh, Samsung and by the time it is introduced, Sony must be considered in the mix. Also, Leica has plenty of time to come up with a counter. They don't need to introduce an attractive alternative prior to the Fujifilm being introduced. They just need to make an announcement and they can blunt the introduction of this camera, or force a reduction in price in the same way that the X100 will stall X1 sales. Things are looking up and competition should give us some large sensor compact alternatives to the DSLR, or the point and shoot.
willie_901
09-21-2010, 08:16
When we have no data (actual X100 images) our only recourse for making an estimate is our prior experience.
So, what is the probability that the X100's image quality will be competitive? Well the published MTF plots look good. So, based on Fuji's past performance with APS-C sensors, I would say the probability is quite high. A more pessimistic outlook is equally valid as long as long there is prior information to infer a mediocre IQ.
I am not convinced (based on Fuji's past performance) that X100 will ship as early as promised.
At any rate, my G1 and Lumix 20/1.7 will likely not be in my bag this time next year.
So, what is the probability that the X100's image quality will be competitive? Well the published MTF plots look good. So, based on Fuji's past performance with APS-C sensors, I would say the probability is quite high. A more pessimistic outlook is equally valid as long as long there is prior information to infer a mediocre IQ.
At this point, I don't think that there's a bad APS-C sensor on the market. And as you say, the MTFs that Fuji is showing are spectacular. We have every reason to think that IQ should be superb.
Certainly on par with, say, a D300 and 35/2 Nikkor. Significantly better, actually, if the MTFs are not hot air -- they indicate a substantially better optic than the Nikkor 35/2. Closer, in fact, to the new 35/1.4.
And that, really, is all I could want or require from a camera like this.
Coming early 2011 they say.
shadowfox
09-21-2010, 10:26
OT but relevant:
Why don't Fuji use this camera to launch an open sensor platform.
Sort of like Ricoh GXR system, but with a fixed lens.
This camera is good candidate because the styling and controls are classic, and the lens is excellent (Hasselblad ain't stupid when they choose Fuji to make lenses for them).
All that is missing is the sensor ... or is it sensors? :)
OT but relevant:
Why don't Fuji use this camera to launch an open sensor platform.
Sort of like Ricoh GXR system, but with a fixed lens.
This camera is good candidate because the styling and controls are classic, and the lens is excellent (Hasselblad ain't stupid when they choose Fuji to make lenses for them).
All that is missing is the sensor ... or is it sensors? :)
This is a wish that we see on the web quite frequently. Frankly, I don't understand the motivation, not a bit.
Santtu Määttänen
09-21-2010, 10:54
This is a wish that we see on the web quite frequently. Frankly, I don't understand the motivation, not a bit.
How about mechanically superb construction that wouldn't become obsolete the second sensors brakes down, specially after global shutter technology becomes available at affordable prices and there wouldn't be mechanical shutter to brake down.
Let's face it, those two things keep the milage on digital cameras rather low, shutters that brake and sensors that go bust. When talking about seriously well build cameras that is.
See a working x100 at Photokina
http://www.flickr.com/photos/koelnmesse/5011219262/
Looks pretty real to me...there are some more pics from Photokina and some more of the x100. Also there is one shot where you can see the ext. flash, a nice brown carry bag...here it is...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/koelnmesse/5011219262/
price....
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Leica_style_Fuji_Finepix_X100_price_1000_News_and_ picture_gallery_news_302063.html
+ I totally believe that the images will be top notch.
Vince Lupo
09-21-2010, 11:21
Alright, you guys wore me down -- I want one now!
chris00nj
09-21-2010, 11:23
This may be the best photo of the X100 so far:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/5011219344_499194445e.jpg
Perhaps, it doesn't really matter in the long run how this camera works out. What is really positive is the overwhelming response and not just on this board. The other companies will not let this go unanswered.
Based upon this price of 1000euro
roughly
1400 CND
1300 USD
850 GBP
1000 euro more then i have at the moment.
Time to save up :)
price....
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Leica_style_Fuji_Finepix_X100_price_1000_News_and_ picture_gallery_news_302063.html
i can't understand why leica didn't include an integrated optical viewfinder with the x1
Based upon this price of 1000euro
roughly
1400 CND
1300 USD
850 GBP
1000 euro more then i have at the moment.
Time to save up :)
I'm wondering if the estimated quoted price of 1000 euro's is with or without VAT plus other taxes? If its with VAT that would make the USD price much lower then 1300 due to the fact that most states have a much lower sales taxes (added to sale price at time of purchase) then the VAT rates of most EU countries. And of course some states don't even have a sales tax.
i can't understand why leica didn't include an integrated optical viewfinder with the x1
My impression is that X1 is quite a bit smaller (especially height-wise). I would guess the idea was to make it significantly smaller than M9 and closer to P&S camera (what X1 is).
wgerrard
09-21-2010, 12:28
How about mechanically superb construction that wouldn't become obsolete the second sensors brakes down...
Do sensors break?
No more incentive exists for camera companies to build cameras with replaceable sensors than exists for personal computer makers to build computers with replaceable chips.
That you can replace a CPU in a PC has every thing to do with design issues and nothing to do with the manufacturer's good will. In addition, they don't have to worry about optics.
For an insight into how corporate marketers think, consider this: Intel wants to introduce a CPU chip that is "upgradeable". That does not mean replacing the chip. It means buying a magic card of sorts that, when deployed, bumps up the CPU's speed and enables additional capabilities previously locked out. A moment's consideration will lead to the realization that Intel wants to market a chip with many of its capabilities disabled, and to charge its customers to get at those capabilities.
Do sensors break?
No more incentive exists for camera companies to build cameras with replaceable sensors than exists for personal computer makers to build computers with replaceable chips.
That you can replace a CPU in a PC has every thing to do with design issues and nothing to do with the manufacturer's good will. In addition, they don't have to worry about optics.
For an insight into how corporate marketers think, consider this: Intel wants to introduce a CPU chip that is "upgradeable". That does not mean replacing the chip. It means buying a magic card of sorts that, when deployed, bumps up the CPU's speed and enables additional capabilities previously locked out. A moment's consideration will lead to the realization that Intel wants to market a chip with many of its capabilities disabled, and to charge its customers to get at those capabilities.
IBM has been doing this for some time in high-end servers, you get processors and memory in the box, and then you can pay IBM to enable them. You can even pay just a week or a month of use, basically rent hardware already in your computer.
wgerrard
09-21-2010, 14:34
IBM has been doing this for some time in high-end servers, you get processors and memory in the box, and then you can pay IBM to enable them. You can even pay just a week or a month of use, basically rent hardware already in your computer.
P.T. Barnum was right.
jsrockit
09-21-2010, 14:37
Does this camera produces a decent file/image? So much excitement over the form/ergonomics and so little information regarding end product.
Well, I think most of us just assume the X100 will great image quality based on Fuji's offerings in the past.
dazedgonebye
09-21-2010, 14:43
Well, I think most of us just assume the X100 will great image quality based on Fuji's offerings in the past.
Basically, there's no reason to assume it won't be capable.
They make good lenses. There pretty much aren't any sensors out there you might call "bad." So unless the drop the ball in a serious way and are stupid enough to release the camera that way...
Will it match the latest and greatest FF sensors for resolution and low light capability? I think we can assume a no on that.
So, somewhere between competent and awesome seems an easy prediction.
How about mechanically superb construction that wouldn't become obsolete the second sensors brakes down, specially after global shutter technology becomes available at affordable prices and there wouldn't be mechanical shutter to brake down.
Let's face it, those two things keep the milage on digital cameras rather low, shutters that brake and sensors that go bust. When talking about seriously well build cameras that is.
1. The alignment and positioning of the image sensor plane are *extremely* critical. Much more so than most realise. Setting up a system where users can routinely remove and replace sensors without screwing up this extremely critical adjustment would be, at best, notrivial.
Such systems would also add mechanical complexity and weight.
2. Sensor storage, cleanliness, and damage would be major issues.
3. The hardware portion of imaging pipelines is for the foreseeable future progressing faster than sensor tech. A new sensor with an old imaging pipeline would be stupid. Maintaining interface compatibility with the camera's computational systems (storage, AF, UI, exposure, etc.) would be limiting (since these systems would not be modular, presumably) and, again, would impose major design and manufacturing penalties over time.
4. At the prices that would likely have to be charged for such a modular system, the market would be small, further increasing costs due to a lack of economies of scale.
IMO, modular sensors would create many more serious problems than they would solve.
You watch. If someone is dumb enough to introduce a system like this in anything but high-end medium format, they will take a bath.
And if the modular system is (as rumored) from Olympus, it will be the third major system camera that they abandon in less than two decades (OM, 4/3 (http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/09/olympus-to-end-43rds-lenses.html), modular). I do love Olympus optics (especially their microscopes), but this is an error that they cannot afford to make.
Canon could afford to make such an error, but they are not stupid enough to do so.
IBM has been doing this for some time in high-end servers, you get processors and memory in the box, and then you can pay IBM to enable them. You can even pay just a week or a month of use, basically rent hardware already in your computer.
Intel has started:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/18/intel-wants-to-charge-50-to-unlock-stuff-your-cpu-can-already-d/
i can't understand why leica didn't include an integrated optical viewfinder with the x1
Fear that it would cannibalise sales of the m8/9. A completely justified fear, too.
Good tactics, but a lousy and arrogant strategy. Leica deserve to suffer a bit for it, and I hope the X100 is good enough to do that.
Santtu Määttänen
09-21-2010, 23:28
1. The alignment and positioning of the image sensor plane are *extremely* critical. Much more so than most realise. Setting up a system where users can routinely remove and replace sensors without screwing up this extremely critical adjustment would be, at best, notrivial.
Such systems would also add mechanical complexity and weight.
I didn't say anything about user replacable sensor :) Just make it modular enough (as well as all the circuits and other non-mechanical electronics) to be replaced at service with ease. Then offer upgrades periodically for a price lower then new camera. For this to work the mechanical parts should be top notch and worth the effort and all knobs, buttons and other parts should be able to withstands decades of abuse.
Maybe a standard sized sensor circuity which could be replaced with improved version with ease (as in no soldering involved and relatively solid and thick golden contacts or optical contacts).
But all this is speculation and I'm sure no camera company is stupid enough to offer this kind of system at any affordable price since it would seriously hurt future sales of full systems. In medium to large format systems, for sure. But for anything below that it would sound like a bad business strategy. Then again I would love to see a company to work more towards sustainability then towards profits. My company does it since we don't aim at profits only to make a living to all involved. But we don't build cameras or other electronics..
shadowfox
09-24-2010, 07:23
This is a wish that we see on the web quite frequently. Frankly, I don't understand the motivation, not a bit.
Well, since you acknowledged that there are more than just myself wishing for this, that indicates that you need to figure out how to understand the motivation, *if* you're curious at all.
Or just ignore us, that works for me too. :)
Ernst Dinkla
09-26-2010, 07:08
I fear we need to wait a bit longer. My understanding is that this camera is "being developed" and there are no working cameras yet, at least no "official" preproduction ones to my knowledge.
It is at least more than a painted piece of wood. I have looked throught the optical viewer on the Photokina and switched the lever that gives live view but the EVF image was a fixed one in that state. Manual or any focusing not possible either for that display model. A lady guarding it and a queue of 6 men behind you isn't the environment to discover its features. Hard to tell what camera it will become. Fuji did give it a lot of promotion there.
Ernst Dinkla
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