M9 Titanium so there you have it!

[kmallick]

Priced at 22K Euros, I wonder how many will be used to take actual street photographs. We have to wait and see how the new innovation of framelines lit with LEDs fair.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/165264629.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1285017377&Signature=XwuXeQTbGk7jEiZ7xq2o9nbLMpE%3D

http://web4.twitpic.com/img/165264629-36fac324321d085439636f9044326ff3.4c97bd40-scaled.jpg

[Wcarpenter]

It's damn sexy, but I sincerely hope this isn't Leica's only contribution to Photokina... Reasonably or not, I am hoping for something more mainstream.

[Ron (Netherlands)]

A different camera altogether? MUST BE A JOKE: apart from the quirky body, at least they seem to have changed the top right corner, does it have a film counter like the M8(2)? and....A STRANGE RED DOT TOOK THE PLACE OF THE BRIGHT LINE WINDOW, so it has changed to a a ....a..... Zorki..???. they were always built like a tank.

UPDATE...

............just read that it seems to have electronic bright lines.....

http://web4.twitpic.com/img/165289929-9fbef87d44ba313c38aaf0e5960c4801.4c97cb50-scaled.jpg

[Pherdinand]

hehe.
Any more comments that new leica's are not for collectors only?

[tom.w.bn]

Fits nicely in a display cabinet.

[dogberryjr]

I thought the days of wretched excess were gone.

[Wcarpenter]

You would think think the latest economic meltdown would at least make a company think twice about asking $22k euros for a remodeled camera.

[wilonstott]

It doesn't have a frame-line illumiation window. Why?

Different rangefinder mechanism?


edit--oh, LEDs--got it. So, no flare?

[maggieo]

Ugly, waaaay too expensive and you have to use it with a holster, because it won't come with strap lugs? Did Hermes buy Leica back?

[Wcarpenter]

I can't think of a more awkward way to carry a camera with the size and weight of the Leica. Does one really have to use the holster? Those seem impractical even for blackberries.

[Viktor Sebastian]

Wow. They redefined ugly.

[RichC]

This is so not funny ... Local photographic meeting tomorrow - guess I'm going to be for a bit of stick being a Leica M8 owner. And I can't blame them...

:eek: :( :mad: :bang:

[RichC]

I can't think of a more awkward way to carry a camera

Do you honestly think anyone will actually unpack it let alone *use* it!!! :bang:

[Honus]

Cool, the lens shade doubles as a drill bit.:rolleyes:

[Archlich]

Photos of the rebranded Pany LX5 and FZ100 are showing up as well.

Talks about "ground-breaking innovations in camera design"...yes...

[vincentbenoit]

Leica should be ashamed of themselves.
This is a disgrace.

[Viktor Sebastian]

Leica should be ashamed of themselves.
This is a disgrace.

I absolutely agree with you. My only hope is that the profit margin for this monstrosity is so high that it will fund R&D for a better future. But I am not holding my breath.

:mad:

[amateriat]

(Sound of one person clapping...very slowly.)

Let's see: titanium-clad? finger-grip strap on the side?

That sounds almost like...well, this:

http://mysite.verizon.net/bwbenton/HRFSLING.jpg

'Course, this ain't diigital (oh, for shame!), but it's got plenty of everything else, and you know the rest of the song.

After looking at Leica's latest ATAQNA, all I can say is: bring on the X100! (Which is looking better by the minute.)


- Barrett

[Florian1234]

So my thoughts alternate between "yawn" and "choke":rolleyes:

But this again fits into their philosophy stated two years ago in the big Kaufmann interview to introduce the new tech-stuff in the highest class first.

Apart from this, it is quite lame, right. Wouldn't wonder if the next big step is one of this design in white. :D

[starless]

Leica should be ashamed of themselves.
This is a disgrace.

it all went downhill after the M6/MP ...

[ederek]

Seriously? This isn't a joke? Sooo glad I scraped off the M9 logo and taped over the dot - don't want to be associated with this!! Only thing they missed was leather from an endangered animal...

[LeicaTom]

Hmmm........looks like another Leica "Turkey" like the M5 was......if the M10 looks this bad, I'm going back to real film full-time once my M8 is worn out :/

What was Leica thinking? If they want a 22k Euro camera, just make a FULL FRAME DIGITAL M3 lookalike in Black Paint and or Real Satin Chrome, with a painted or chrome special edition Non Asph Summilux f1.4/50mm at 22k Euro they WILL sell ;) LOL!!!!!

This crazy thing they can throw in the trashcan, it's sooooo ugly!!!! Who the hell designs cameras for Leica? They certainly dropped the ball with this one....

Tom

[tom.w.bn]

it all went downhill after the M6/MP ...

Perhaps for a film user. But the company was almost dead at the time they offered the MP if my memory is correct. Now after M8 and M9 they seem to be on track again.

[hteasley]

Perhaps for a film user. But the company was almost dead at the time they offered the MP if my memory is correct. Now after M8 and M9 they seem to be on track again.

Yes, they are. I don't know how many times I've gone through the RFF gallery, and bemoaned the obvious fact that all of those photos were clearly produced without enough titanium in the camera.

[Michael Markey]

Now after M8 and M9 they seem to be on track again.

But to where :)

[totifoto]

Not Leica´s best work........

[DougFord]

Leica defectors will be the norm in 2011.
High-end mirrorless camera designs will continue to erode leica’s niche. Loyalty to the mechanical RF assembly, currently a profitable bridge technology in 2010 turns into an albatross overnight, come 2011.
It’s going to be very interesting to see what Leica announces at Photokina.
IMO, just upgrading the sensor in an M10 offering will only reap a small fraction of the sales enjoyed by the M9.
With the entire ‘weight’ of the camera industry innovating the mirrorless camera design niche, somebody’s gonna get hurt.
Leica can’t keep up, so we are about to enter the ‘theater of the absurd’ like we’ve never experienced from Leica before. They have no other options left.
22k titanium M9s are just the tip of the iceberg.
Ironically, Leica was ‘there’ all the while, with their short register camera design, while others were happy with pentaprism mirrors. Oh well, life goes on.
Needless to say, but IMO Leica’s brand loyalty will be sorely tested in 2011.
Fewer leica loyalists will be asked to shoulder extreme price increases and internet forum ridicule from here on out.
As Get Smart said “…and loving it”. :rolleyes:

[flyalf]

Great looking camera, no doubt.

[hteasley]

Oh, and they have a black X1, too. Whee (http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/20/leica-quietly-showcases-d-lux-5-redesigned-x1-and-rebranded-dmc/).

I don't think this signals a death spiral. It seems Leica is in better shape than it has been in a long time. They made the X1, which is a step in the right direction. They just need to have more confidence in the thinking that produced that, and emphasize that more, and let go of the collectible camera mentality they were mired in for so long.

[starless]

I always thought Leica nearly went out of business because their cameras were so well-made. Once you bought one you could use it forever. There was nothing to improve on them really.

And of course there was no way for Leica to survive in the dawn of digital photography when companies churn out a few models a year.

Now they are in the digital market where cameras become obsolete fast. So they just need to come up with a new model every year to stay in business, nevermind if it looks half decent.

[swoop]

Wow, that thing is ugly. The LED brightlines are a good idea though. It ruins the classic appearance of the camera but will probably be fantastic in use. Likely addition to the M10.

I think Leica was smart to make this a limited edition.

[kdemas]

This is a special edition so I don't see what all the freaking is about. Yes, the price is absurd and clearly it's not something for the mainstream working photographer (or me). If you're into cars think of this as the Lanbo Reventon of Leica's, probably a better deal actually.

On the other hand I think the introduction of the LED finder illumination system is really a good thing. It's only a small hop to having a killer hybrid viewfinder (like the Fuji everyone is going apoplectic over, me included).

So, let's see where this leads. This camera is "for other people", I won't be surprised if this leads to something "for the real photographers". I think it will :)

Kent

[Phew!finder]

I don't really understand what the doom-mongery is all about, to be honest.
Leica doesn't look like it's got anything substantive to show off, so why not release a ridiculously expensive collector's item to raise funds?

Like it or not, Leica's are a fetishised, luxury plaything as well as photographic tools. The M9 Titanium may not be for RFFers, but if people are rich and tasteless enough to want these overpriced pieces of techno-jewellery, Leica might as well cash in on that.

[vincentbenoit]

I think the introduction of the LED finder illumination system is really a good thing.How so? Just curious...

[Alpacaman]

I wonder if the LED finder is cheaper, or more expensive to make than the window. Regardless, it does seem like more of a vulnerability.

[kdemas]

How so? Just curious...

Vincent,

I had some lit frame lines in my Nikon 28ti and it's a real pleasure to shoot with at night. Although I love my current Ms this would be a nice thing to have, for me. Very very nice.

Also if you use a projection system you could expand it to allow for the superimposing of data that you would like to see in the finder, according to your tastes. I might want to see the ISO setting and exposure compensation... someone else might like to have nothing appear at all. It would be up to the user, as simple or complex a view as you like.

Kent

[wgerrard]

Priced at 22K Euros...



Why???

Does a titanium shell triple the production costs?

Mr. Barnum would be smiling.

[tjh]

The pictures of this beast don't show on my Mac Safari browser (the latest).

[vincentbenoit]

Mr. Barnum would be smiling.Mr. Barnack sure isn't.

[jamato8]

Well I can't say I would buy one, even if I had the money to throw around. I don't really admire the design. The functionality would be interesting.

I would love to see a good digital body that would use the Leica glass. Maybe an optical system for the split image on the cam of the lens. A much better review screen, which should have been implemented would be much appreciated, but shelling out another 7 or 8 thousand to get what should have been, would not be.

M10? Someone said the Leica rep for the US stated that there would be no M10, but maybe they said there wouldn't be a digital Leica in the beginning of the digital age. :^)

[eleskin]

This is the kind of thing i laugh at. I guess it is ok if someone wants to blow alot of $$$. Meanwhile, Fuji has burned Leica's X-1 ass off with the X-100. The titanium seems trivial compared to a new camera with a new rangefinder/viewfinder concept. If Leica suffers, it is their fault. Every once in awhile they immerse themselves into an insanity like this camera. I think it is telling that they did when Fuji broke new ground. I use an M8 and love it, and would love an M9, but let me say something about Fuji. I have a GSW 690 and it is stellar with Velvia, etc,,,,. I am sure this thing (x-100) is a winner. They are a formidable camera and lens maker!

[eleskin]

WOW, THAT THING IS BUTT UGLY!!! I HATE IT!!!

I would NEVER shell out what I paid for a used E class Mercedes Diesel (hey, 42mpg with comfort and style) for this thing!

It really is a JOKE camera. Well done Fuji. Leica, you should go back to real camera making!!!!

It is even more insane looking at the Leica CEO's at the podium looking like they have really done something.

The joke is on them!!!

[sanmich]

I wonder when they will mass produce a model in three samples and sell each for over 100 k$.

[aizan]

it's good to know that leica is innovating new viewfinder technology like fuji, but good god, that is one ugly camera.

it was the best of times, it was the worst of times...

[Nikkor AIS]

Any word on what kind of titanium is used? Raw titanium compared to tempered tool steel is really pretty soft, whereas 6AL4V titanium as used in knife making (bolsters and liners) is harder and tougher.

As far as the design, I don't think it's "that bad." I'm sure they will sell every one they make.

[Keith]

Hmm ... trimmed with the same leather that comes in the top of the range Audi! (whoopee)

I'd like to buy all 500 examples, crush them and send the cube back to Leica suggesting they recycle and make some real cameras!

This type of excess really doesn't sit well with me sorry and they've undone a lot of good work created by the release of the basic M9!

[Frankie]

This is a camera designed for the show case. No one will run even one roll of film through it...the new design details are irrelevant.

[Keith]

This is a camera designed for the show case. No one will run even one roll of film through it...the new design details are irrelevant.


Can't argue with that! :D

[tlitody]

Photokina always signals the beginning of the silly season on web forums. Lets hope its short and the threads on it too.:bang:

[M4-I-Love]

Is there some gizmo like a led reading light which you can attach to the hot shoe and shine it through the bright lines illumination window? Would this work at night? :confused:

[sepiareverb]

At least they've finally stopped being so married to the looks of the M3. No real reason the camera has to look like it did 60 years ago except for the stick in the mud users who complain about the new cameras so much they won't buy one. I for one would love an M10 that had a built-in grip.

[hteasley]

At least they've finally stopped being so married to the looks of the M3. No real reason the camera has to look like it did 60 years ago except for the stick in the mud users who complain about the new cameras so much they won't buy one. I for one would love an M10 that had a built-in grip.

Well, I love the looks of the M3, myself, and I'm not a luddite about these things. I love the look of the X1, too, and the X100 even more. I think the M9Ti looks like a clunky fusion of modern styling cues and retro M3 configuration. Wishy-washy.

[ferider]

Is there some gizmo like a led reading light which you can attach to the hot shoe and shine it through the bright lines illumination window? Would this work at night? :confused:

Yep. Works. And much cheaper. Also allows you to look at the lens scales ...

http://ferider.smugmug.com/Technical/Other-Technicalities/Small-Stuff/shine/634452355_k89r3-L.jpg

Full frame, too :)

[antiquark]

Am I imagining things, or is the M9T godawful ugly?

http://www.imaginginsider.com/wp-content/uploads/201009201919.jpg

http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/titanium-m9.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/09/leica-m9-titanium-limited-edition-photokina.jpg

[Keith]

Yep. Works. And much cheaper. Also allows you to look at the lens scales ...

http://ferider.smugmug.com/Technical/Other-Technicalities/Small-Stuff/shine/634452355_k89r3-L.jpg

Full frame, too :)


And stealthy too! :D

[elshaneo]

Is it just me or not? I find this camera really ugly LOL :D

[Keith]

I'm sure someone who parts with the 22k Euro won't think it's ugly ... and good luck to them I say! :D

I'm waiting for the white one myself!

[aizan]

the raised titanium plates resemble armor plating, but not in a good way. they should have let herman zimmerman (the production designer for star trek since who knows when) design it.

[PatrickONeill]

its kind of like a car company making a concept car, selling it for R&D money for the next model.

While I'm sure the next M camera will have similar styling cues to this camera. It will be toned down from what you see here.

if they cut off the fat and make it lithe and whispy, the minimalism design language would look much better. But as it stands. well... she makes the M5 look elegant.

[Wcarpenter]

I think this camera makes much more sense as a design concept/ path indicator for Leica. Someone likened it to a concept car on one of the previous pages. I think that's spot on. At 500 units, it's certainly not what I'd call a production camera, but rather an indicator of the M10's future.

I, for one, dont mind the design and actually think its a solid modern interpretation of the "M" style. The price is rediculous, but maybe the concepts behind it aren't.

[Bill58]

I guess Luigi and Zhou are already getting ready to sell their own holsters. I'd like a hand-tooled one from Mexico like the old pistol holsters....if I could afford the camera.

The ugly, weird loop for the fingers looks like a cheap and poorly functioning alternative to the leicagoodies.com sling 'cause they didn't wanna pay a royalty to the the latter. I also wonder how long it will take for the loop to all off, then it's a $500 repair bill.

[robklurfield]

ick! that is one ugly camera. it is a characterless caricature of a leica M. the lego M9 is better looking. I'm unconcerned about not being able to afford this one. this what the automobile designer J Mays did with the new Beetle and the new T-Bird. He distilled all of the character out of them, aped the classic shapes and left the world with two style-less lumps of metal that were poor imitations of classics. the iPhone is better imitation of Leica style than this. did the lens shade come off the BP oil drilling platform in the gulf? wow. time to buy a IIIC barnack for me.

[Keith]

did the lens shade come off the BP oil drilling platform in the gulf?


... that was funny! :D

[robklurfield]

That's certainly true: no one will run any film through this.

This is a camera designed for the show case. No one will run even one roll of film through it...the new design details are irrelevant.

[robklurfield]

lol on the white one, Keith.:D:D:D

I'm sure someone who parts with the 22k Euro won't think it's ugly ... and good luck to them I say! :D

I'm waiting for the white one myself!

[angeloks]

I'm ashamed, but I think it's a cool looking camera...

[thomasw_]

Am I imagining things, or is the M9T godawful ugly?

http://www.imaginginsider.com/wp-content/uploads/201009201919.jpg

http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/titanium-m9.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/09/leica-m9-titanium-limited-edition-photokina.jpg

Hi,

I am here to answer your query. No, that is one butt-ugly camera, you are seeing it as it is. My first assumption was that this was just a joke...

It turns out that I was wrong.

best, TW.

[Keith]

The thing that amazes me is there's been people waiting for delivery of their 'normal' $7000.00 M9's while Solms have been messing around with this horror show!

It's obviously been on the drawing board taking up resources for a while!

[robklurfield]

this camera ought to have a nice little pop-up flash. and, image stabilization. and 1080p video. and a fixed zoom lens. and cost about $1500. and be labeled as a fuji or canon.

this is evolutionary in design in the same way that giving up our opposable thumbs would be evolutionary. honestly, if leica wants to keep making cameras that look like M2s, M3s, MPs, that's cool. If they don't want to do that, that's cool, too. if they want a fresh design, they should start with blank piece of paper (as when they moved from Barnacks to M's) and come up with something truly fresh. Give it a different name. Try new materials (any reason no one makes camera bodies using carbon fiber???). If they want to stick with M's and their classic style, this doesn't cut it. It's Bauhaus-ed to death, IMHO. Why keep the classic M style AND come out with something truly fresh? Why not do both at once? This is a poor compromise.

[Alpacaman]

That's certainly true: no one will run any film through this.

Very true - People do tend to have a hard time trying to run film through digital cameras :rolleyes:

But yes, this camera is made to be vacuum sealed, and then put back into its original packing forever.

[NaChase]

To be honest, I don't want this camera at all: I NEED IT! OR, better yet, I will take that same 22k and buy either 22 M6's or maybe 44 slightly battered M3's and fill an inflatable swimming pool with them and just sort of writhe around in them. Either that or I will lay them out on a patch of grass somewhere and make "Leica angels" in them.

[Keith]

44 slightly battered M3's and fill an inflatable swimming pool with them and just sort of writhe around in them


Ahh ... a true M3 fan! :D

[PatrickONeill]

NaChase, I like your style! :angel:

[robklurfield]

M10 spy photos released at Photokina...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/5010096347_9f423985d2_z.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/5010096347_9f423985d2_z.jpg

[NaChase]

Gentlemen, I will take take my M3, along with my harem of concubines, with me to the grave. Hopefully by then I will have been able to afford a nice 50mm Summilux. But seriously, this camera, while kinda-sorta cool looking, is ridiculous. I wish I were rich so I could buy and use it out of spite to collectors everywhere.

[Frankie]

Very true - People do tend to have a hard time trying to run film through digital cameras :rolleyes:

But yes, this camera is made to be vacuum sealed, and then put back into its original packing forever.

Ha-ha-ha...I thought no one will get my joke. :D

Regardless, there are at least 500 fools who would pay collectively some 11 million euros to Leica just not to use a camera that cost more than a car, or the annual individual income in many developed countries.

Hong Kong dealers are particularly good in vacuum sealing Leica's for selling to suckers.

[robklurfield]

have leica sold out of the white M8's yet? betcha there are dealers still sitting with them.

Frankie is probably right, though, that there's an ass for every chair.

[jmarcus]

M9T making the M5 look great!

[robklurfield]

how do you spell EDSEL?

[robklurfield]

can't wait to mount my Jupiter 8 on one of these.

[sprokitt]

e22k = nearly US$28,600. I'm betting that doesn't include the holster either.
At a 500 pc run that $14.3MM in revenues for a product most of the people who buy it will seldom, if ever use. Not a bad business if you can get it.

I think its a cool looking camera, but I don't think its breaking much new ground. Stylish -sure. Groundbreaking - not so much.

Maybe we mortals could start a petition to ask if they could spend maybe $25k of that revenue for a decent firmware update to the M8 for which we would gladly pay for anyway. Sorry...I know that horse is long dead.

[davidtth]

M10 spy photos released at Photokina...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/5010096347_9f423985d2_z.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/5010096347_9f423985d2_z.jpg


very similar design to an old Fuji F601 designed by Porsche Design

[antiquark]

My first assumption was that this was just a joke...

It turns out that I was wrong. .

Haha, me too, my first thought was "funny photoshop!"

When it gradually dawned on me that it was the real thing, I actually felt pity for Leica! Because they were once a great company which made nice cameras, now they're down to making this!

It's like they couldn't find anyone competent to design it, so they got their summer student to do it. From the looks of the camera, I assume the summer student is some 18 y.o. kid who likes The Matrix, Anime movies, and writes Transformer fanfics.

All that being said, titanium is so 1990's! If they really wanted to be cutting edge, they would have made it out of graphite or carbon composites.

(Maybe it seems worse than it really is, coming on the heels of the spectacular Fuji X100...)

[Gary Sandhu]

I like it, after looking at some gallery photos; I think it looks and feels better in person. And it has a mineral crystal LCD cover and a hard wearing unique finish.
The electronic framelines are notable.
I

[ywenz]

This camera is a POS by all definitions of a POS.

[robklurfield]

by POS, I don't think he means "point of sale"....;)

This camera is a POS by all definitions of a POS.

[Alpacaman]

If nothing else, the does show that Leica is willing to throw away a lot of the traditional elements of the RF mechanism. Mebbe we can expect the LED thingo in the M10? Or perhaps and LCD (has anyone else done that yet? :angel: )

[Keith]

I think it's definitely technlogy destined for the M10 ... strange to try it out on the market in a camera that will probably get very little use.

I wonder what there thinking was there?

Actually ... looking at the M9t they obviously weren't really thinking on this occasion! :D

[amateriat]

I would love to see a good digital body that would use the Leica glass. Maybe an optical system for the split image on the cam of the lens. A much better review screen, which should have been implemented would be much appreciated, but shelling out another 7 or 8 thousand to get what should have been, would not be.
I'd like to think that would've been the Hexar RF-D, which apparently did exist in prototype form. I cringe to think how many light-years ahead we might've been in the dRF world if Konica (yeah, Konica-Minolta if you insist) had kept-on-keepin'-on in the photo biz. But that's mere Monday-morning-quarterbacking on my part.

I still say: bring on the X100!.


- Barrett

[amateriat]

If nothing else, the does show that Leica is willing to throw away a lot of the traditional elements of the RF mechanism. Mebbe we can expect the LED thingo in the M10? Or perhaps and LCD (has anyone else done that yet? :angel: )
Yes. Contax did it, even in my lil' Tvs. Shows you how behind the 8-ball Solms has been...


- Barrett

[naruto]

this is a cruel joke played by Leica on all it's supporters. Now, the DSLR guys will just have to show us a pic of this camera to shut us up... *sigh*
*memory erase*

I could see someone using that holster grip and using this as a battering device. repeated strokes to the designer might help cure him. btw, I think it was designed VW designer Walter de Silva (ref Steve Huff site - http://goo.gl/reDx).

[nikon_sam]

Do they work and are they reliable or does that not matter since no one will be using them...???

[CK Dexter Haven]

I don't know if it's more funny or sad. THIS is what they spend their time on? It's OFFENSIVE. Pathetic. It's a bad, bad joke. Leica treats its customer base like an ATM.

The hand strap comes in two sizes! Lens shade looks like it belongs on the end of an electric drill. Or inside a blender. A holster! Thank you, ever so much! Fargin iceholes.

The douche who actually sports one of these in public should get noogies.

[retow]

Rumors are the M9T won't have a sensor, since they will all be vacuum sealed by Leica and sold to collectors:D. Imagine the margins for L:bang::bang::bang:

[JayGannon]

I dont know why people are getting in ahuff about this, Leica has a History going back decades when they were making 'the old gooduns' of making once off limited editions of stupid extravagance, why is this any different?

[Michael Markey]

I dont know why people are getting in ahuff about this, Leica has a History going back decades when they were making 'the old gooduns' of making once off limited editions of stupid extravagance, why is this any different?

I guess because times and sensibilities have changed and they seem to have failed to notice which in itself doesn`t bode well.

Michael

[Lss]

I don't like that weird leather-loop thing. Give me a 95% discount and I'll try to live with it.

[gliderbee]

Ugly, waaaay too expensive and you have to use it with a holster, because it won't come with strap lugs? Did Hermes buy Leica back?

Of course it has to be used with a holster: that will hide more or less how ugly it is :D. As I understand, it's a limited editon (500), probably for the same reason.

I guess reactions on the M5 must have been the same, and I like that one, so maybe in 30-40 years, somebody, somewhere, while drunk, will like the M9 Titanium :D (and I hope I will not have to eat those words sooner or later :p).

[JayGannon]

I guess because times and sensibilities have changed and they seem to have failed to notice which in itself doesn`t bode well.

Michael

Not really, there were recessions before. They still produced gold plated M3, M4, M6, they produced a gold plated Barnack in times of severe poverty.

Leica has always been a company that caters to a higher end market, people seem to have forgot that all of the M series were epensive cameras when new, yes their quaity control has gone down, yes they are not as responsive as they could be, but its not terribily out of line with their general history.

I'm sure photographers who loved their M4's we're writing to each other aghast at a gold plated M4 that was going to forever live in its box and never shoot a roll. Same for the Barnac, M3, M6 etc etc.

Leica has a history of special editions, and people who pay 22k for a camera are not particularly touched by current situations to be honest, yes they have lost money, but not enough to effect their lifestyle. So I would say Leica has perfectly placed itself to raise 14 million in additions capital through the sale of 500 cameras. Makes good business sense to me.

[sanmich]

Yep. Works. And much cheaper. Also allows you to look at the lens scales ...

http://ferider.smugmug.com/Technical/Other-Technicalities/Small-Stuff/shine/634452355_k89r3-L.jpg

Full frame, too :)

Night fishing? :D

[JayGannon]

this is a cruel joke played by Leica on all it's supporters. Now, the DSLR guys will just have to show us a pic of this camera to shut us up... *sigh*
*memory erase*


Why not these:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/Leica/Leica-M6/LEICAM6_GoldSultanBrunei/index.htm

Even more ostentations than Titanium which at least has a theoretical value in hardness etc, and dont forget the M9T has some of the first innovations in the leica rangefinder design in 50 years.

[bizarrius]

I hope thats the secret camera they were talking about and they are going to give away 10 in that facebook contest.
:D:D

in a more serious note:
ugliest leica ever.

[Sparrow]

I hope thats the secret camera they were talking about and they are going to give away 10 in that facebook contest.
:D:D

in a more serious note:
ugliest leica ever.

the Sultan of Brunei begs to differ :D

[Austerby]

Seems like a clever move by Leica for a number of reasons:

a) great free marketing by association for the standard M9 and rest of the brand
b) gets its name back into the billionaire's fashion pages
c) handily funds some R&D into LED framelines
d) testbed for new design concepts / manufacturing techniques
e) will establish links with a new set of ultra-rich customers who, a la Sultan of Brunei, may not be averse to commissioning bespoke versions, as such people can with their Bentley or Bugatti

Looks like the smart people are still in charge and I don't think they've lost the plot in the slightest.

[M4-I-Love]

Yep. Works. And much cheaper. Also allows you to look at the lens scales ...

http://ferider.smugmug.com/Technical/Other-Technicalities/Small-Stuff/shine/634452355_k89r3-L.jpg

Full frame, too :)
Gonna go to Ace Hardware and buy me some a big tub of JB Weld. Led frame lines ... woohooo!!! :D

[Brian Sweeney]

The Nikon DL-1 provided a Lamp for illuminating the meter window. I replaced the burned out Lamp in mine with an LED, had to up the voltage. Lower Voltage LED's are around now.

[nobbylon]

I don't believe we, ie users, are the target market. Start reading Hello magazine in a few months and I'll bet we see one draped on some film or rock star. A fashion accessory that has no place here.
On the subject of the D-lux 5, how can they be so blatant about it being the same as the LX5, rebodied and throw in some software we've probably already got and charge ££££££ for the red logo. Total scam and exactly the same as the lx3 v dlux 4 affair. I bought an lx3 and spent the difference this week on a Billingham 445.
There are obviously still plenty of people who don't mind being ripped off! IMHO of course :)

[Olsen]

Am I imagining things, or is the M9T godawful ugly?

http://www.imaginginsider.com/wp-content/uploads/201009201919.jpg

http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/titanium-m9.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/09/leica-m9-titanium-limited-edition-photokina.jpg

I have a 'top of the line Audi' w/leather interior, but the leather is totally different to this....

[Keith]

I have a 'top of the line Audi' w/leather interior, but the leather is totally different to this....


I was intrigued by that report ... apparently VW who own Audi were involved in this camera.

Maybe they meant the leather on the strap! :p

[jsrockit]

Oh, and they have a black X1, too. Whee (http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/20/leica-quietly-showcases-d-lux-5-redesigned-x1-and-rebranded-dmc/).

That's actually quite beautiful... but I'm already an X1 fan. Thank god for fuji on the "rangefinder" front...

[hteasley]

That's actually quite beautiful... but I'm already an X1 fan. Thank god for fuji on the "rangefinder" front...

Oh, it's nice. But it's not interesting. An X2 similar to the X100, that's interesting.

[SimonSawSunlight]

I want the "hello kitty" edition back.

[gavinlg]

I'm not going to lie, I don't dig that m9t at all. It's rather unharmonious looking to my eyes. Also that it costs £19,000 probably has something to do with it..

[sirius]

Special edition Leicas have always been scorned. Remember the king of Thailand gold edition? They are not about functionality, they are purely about profit for the company, which is a GOOD thing isn't it? We all want Leica to survive.

[robklurfield]

Good point. Aren't some of the reasons that many of us are so loyal to our Leicas the combination of ...

quick, sure handling ... extreme reliability in extreme conditions .... ? will this camera have those traits?

Do they work and are they reliable or does that not matter since no one will be using them...???

[ederek]

This is a camera designed for the show case. No one will run even one roll of film through it...the new design details are irrelevant.

hahaha. :D Heard it comes with an 8gig roll that can hold all the pictures you'll ever shoot with the camera!

Hmmm, so what's the point of introducing the lit framelines now, if they won't be used? So much for 'field tested' improvements. :bang:

Why not make a limited run of M9's with the LED illumination and finger strap, and see if these things hold up in the real world? :confused:

[Michael Markey]

Not really, there were recessions before. They still produced gold plated M3, M4, M6, they produced a gold plated Barnack in times of severe poverty.

Leica has always been a company that caters to a higher end market, people seem to have forgot that all of the M series were epensive cameras when new, yes their quaity control has gone down, yes they are not as responsive as they could be, but its not terribily out of line with their general history.

I'm sure photographers who loved their M4's we're writing to each other aghast at a gold plated M4 that was going to forever live in its box and never shoot a roll. Same for the Barnac, M3, M6 etc etc.

Leica has a history of special editions, and people who pay 22k for a camera are not particularly touched by current situations to be honest, yes they have lost money, but not enough to effect their lifestyle. So I would say Leica has perfectly placed itself to raise 14 million in additions capital through the sale of 500 cameras. Makes good business sense to me.

Oh well ,put like that it is ,as you say, very much in context with their previous products.
Lets hope that it works out for them.

Michael

[hteasley]

Special edition Leicas have always been scorned. Remember the king of Thailand gold edition? They are not about functionality, they are purely about profit for the company, which is a GOOD thing isn't it? We all want Leica to survive.

Innovation can lead to profit, I hear.

[JayGannon]

Innovation can lead to profit, I hear.

We're talking about the Leica M series here, a camera whohc has only had slight variations over the last 60 years, Leica ain't an innovator, nor do I persoanlly want them to be, I want simple uncomplicated reliable gear, not innovation.

[nksyoon]

Found this image on the official M9T page - wonder if those models on the right were rejected M9T design models or ideas for the M10?

http://en.leica-camera.com/assets/media/img17964.jpg

[Neare]

http://en.leica-camera.com/assets/media/img17964.jpg


£19,800 and they couldn't even give it a body cap.

[jsrockit]

Well, I wouldn't diss it if someone gave me one to use ... or sell. However, the price tag is disgusting.

[hteasley]

We're talking about the Leica M series here, a camera whohc has only had slight variations over the last 60 years, Leica ain't an innovator, nor do I persoanlly want them to be, I want simple uncomplicated reliable gear, not innovation.

They've evolved M cameras over those 60 years. The M9 is a great technological innovation. They can do it.

[sepiareverb]

I think it's definitely technlogy destined for the M10 ... strange to try it out on the market in a camera that will probably get very little use.

I wonder what there thinking was there?

Well, read this thread for starters. Anything that Leica does seems to ruffle feathers, as messing with the M is sacrilege to many. Can you imagine the outcry from all those people who won't buy an M9 anyway if the M9 had electronic framelines? Seems logical to me to make some inroads on innovation with a camera that will certainly pay for itself quickly. The special editions help keep Leica afloat today just as they did years ago. They're not asking us to buy it, they've obviously got enough people to buy the edition they set.

[ferider]

I wonder if student discount applies to the M9T. :)

[urban_alchemist]

I think it looks fantastic, and will probably work a treat.

If I had €20,000+ Euros to spare, I'd buy one and use the sh!t out of it...

[sanmich]

ok, the look is a question of taste.
The tech innovation...could be interesting, and there is a logic at trying the market before releasing the M10.
The price has been discussed, and let's assume they know what they are doing.
But how, HOW, can they justify this ridiculous holster contraption??:confused: :confused: :eek: :eek:

[popeye]

6 pages of 'Ugly, wretched excess, Leica is gone downhill again, etc, etc...". Heck, I only posted here to boost my post count...

[Pavel+]

Does it come with a titanium display case?

[ederek]

Found this image on the official M9T page - wonder if those models on the right were rejected M9T design models or ideas for the M10?

http://en.leica-camera.com/assets/media/img17964.jpg

Ooh ooh <jumping up and down> - do I see a WHITE one there??? Quick, let me grab it before Keith gets it! :p

I admit there's plenty of bashing going on, but next to some other announcements out there right now, this is a bit underwhelming..

[sper]

I think the camera looks pretty cool actually. I like it.

But...

Leica should be ashamed of themselves for charging so much for it, along with the rest of their products.

[nonot]

Reminds me more of a DeLorean than an Audi. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they did a collaboration with Christian Audiger.

[ywenz]

Found this image on the official M9T page - wonder if those models on the right were rejected M9T design models or ideas for the M10?

http://en.leica-camera.com/assets/media/img17964.jpg

What a shame.. the M series' body design needs no evolution. Any new model should retain the M's classic look, with the leatherette cover running the whole width of the body. Instead, this body looks like a prop from the set of Battlestar Galactica.

YOu know it's poor design when compared to that timeless looking Omega Speedmaster on the guy's wrist, this M looks like garbage.

[antiquark]

I understand the titanium lenshood can also be thrown like a ninja star, with deadly effect.

[ederek]

I understand the titanium lenshood can also be thrown like a ninja star, with deadly effect.

Soooo much now makes sense!!

Steve Jobs was reported by Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-14/steve-jobs-stopped-at-japan-airport-over-ninja-stars-spa-says.html?cmpid=yhoo) to have been stopped coming back from Japan with Ninja Throwing Stars.

This was refuted by Apple.

It would seem perhaps Leica had provided Steve with a new Titanium M, complete with throwing star lens hood?!?

Perhaps to thank him for the free Leica brand pump during the iPhone 4 launch??

Will there really be a Leica lens element in the iPhone 5??? :rolleyes:

[J J Kapsberger]

I applaud Leica. It's a step in the right direction in terms of styling. They've given the M9 a very modern look. Now, the next step is to move further away from building genuine imitation M6s. Let the later M9s and M10 be totally designed around the latest technology Leica has in its grasp.

(Just don't let them build only titanium cameras at that price.)

[tim_c]

Some art student has given a Leica a reskin. Whoop-e-do.

[igi]

Even cabinets get gifts from the rich people!?

The looks is a match for a carbon-fibre clad Japanese rice rocket:D

[heatherselkie]

Wow, really? On one hand an interesting modern design that yes reminds me of a Battlestar Gallactica prop(yes in our world we had leicas too), but not fitting with the Leica M. I don't like it at all. What is that silly holster thing? It very much looks like an item for the very very rich. Sometimes I go into the fancy schmanzy fairmont castle to use their lovely washrooms and walk past the luxury stores and this M9T is the kind of thing you see in the display windows. Kind of disgusting. I know Leica has a history of appalling special editions, but I thought the latest ownership put a stop to that?
The promo I read mentioned nothing about the technical specs-just how stylish it is. The language again was very much for a certain clientel-very very rich.
So, if there are any technical advances, hopefully they will put it into a normal body for the mere mortal M10. Way to appeal to your fan base Leica!

[jsrockit]

Hmmm, why are there black, silver and white M9's in that pic? Is this going to be the M9.2 eventually?

[dogberryjr]

6 pages of 'Ugly, wretched excess, Leica is gone downhill again, etc, etc...". Heck, I only posted here to boost my post count...
Hi, Mr. Wretched Excess Commenter here. My point is that while I appreciate both technical and aesthetic advances (or even attempts), I don't understand the need for a titanium camera. Hasn't everyone agreed already that just about any body will outlast the usefulness of digital guts?

[amateriat]

I understand the titanium lenshood can also be thrown like a ninja star, with deadly effect.
Really? I was thinking of using it to shape ground beef on a butcher block to make perfectly-sized sliders. Mmmm...Leica sliders...!


- Barrett

[amateriat]

Why???

Does a titanium shell triple the production costs?

Mr. Barnum would be smiling.
My first Konica Hexar RF body, brand-new, set me back about a grand. The Kit that my second body came with, was just a bit more than that. Titanium top, bottom, front and side plates, finished in a fairly tough, warm-to-the-touch, semi-matte black epoxy. Anything Leica has built with more than a lick of ti in it has been pricier by at least a factor of five. Even Konica's Millenium Edition of the Hex, with that wild 50 f/1.2 lens, sold at a less-than-slap-happy price.

That said, I don't think the M9T is ugly. In a way, I sort of like it, and, as special-edition jobs go, this one's relatively restrained. It'll be interesting to see where Solms goes with the new VF tech. It is not, however, a dance-in-the-streets development on the level of Fuji's X100, which may likely retail at a bit under 1/20 the "Teica's" asking price. (Of course, Fuji, in their preemptive announcement, effectively peed in everybody's punch-bowl, not just Leica's.)


- Barrett

[Nikkor AIS]

oo double tap

[Nikkor AIS]

Has anyone heard what grade of titanium Leica is using for their M9T?

[BillBlackwell]

I agree with those who had responses along the lines of "What was Leica thinking?" It's M9 ala M5 Titanium...

... But I also think they'll sell-out very quickly.

[robklurfield]

Of those of us who said the M9t is ugly, I wonder how many would have a more charitable opinion if the price were around $2,995? or $2,295??? Maybe that extra digit to the left of the decimal point is decisive. I'd probably have had fewer nasty things to say in my posts if the darned thing weren't so expensive.

[robklurfield]

Porsche didn't get it right either... a new 2011 Speedster... only 356 of them to be produced at $263,000. I also won't be buying one of those too soon.

Looks okay, but the original Speedster concept was take the tub from a Cabriolet and strip it down to its bare essence to make it lighter and cheaper. Mission not accomplished when the new one costs twice what a Carrera cab does.

Maybe Leica should partner with Porsche on these limited editions, selling a car and camera together. If one our very well-to-do RFF pals buys one of each, I'll gladly use their M9t to take pix from the passenger seat of the Speedster.

http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/09/21/2010-paris-preview-2011-porsche-911-speedster-only-356-will-be-made/

[Tony Rose]

Unfortunately I will sell everyone we can have delivered from Leica USA. Probably only a very few kits will ever be bought within the USA.

[Japan---Exposures]

No retro look here then, bravo.

[amateriat]

No retro look here then, bravo.
Well, look at it this way: to someone taking a pic of their kids at the museum with an iPhone*, ALL these other cameras are "retro", or, perhaps, "antique."

Meanwhile, here are today's scores:

Fuji X100 thread: 900

Leica M9T thread: 152 (okay, 153 including my missive)

Again: bring on the X100!

(*Spent a rare, and long, Sunday at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Lots of people taking pics with iPhones, the rest lugging big-ass dSLRs for no particularly good reason, IMO.)


- Barrett

[Ken Shipman]

You've heard of a concept car? This is like a concept camera. Disregard the Titan Limited Edition facade. They're testing the waters for future mass production design. The end product might take a piece here, a piece there, a piece over there, and throw away the rest. It's what modern marketing is all about.

[CK Dexter Haven]

Special edition Leicas have always been scorned. Remember the king of Thailand gold edition? They are not about functionality, they are purely about profit for the company, which is a GOOD thing isn't it? We all want Leica to survive.

They would be more profitable if they focused their attentions to developing real-world products that more consumers would both want and afford. If they're bound and determined to remain an elitist, niche brand, they're going to continue to struggle and have to release offensive tripe like this.

What happened to their vow to put out a system for R-users? BS distractions like this aren't helping them reach that objective. They give us a limited edition collector's mishmash that will never see actual use by an actual photographer, and re-releases of Panasonic products. What happened to serving PHOTOGRAPHERS? They owe their reputation to the street and the trench, not the showcase.

[Lss]

Of those of us who said the M9t is ugly, I wonder how many would have a more charitable opinion if the price were around $2,995? or $2,295??? Maybe that extra digit to the left of the decimal point is decisive.
At $3k, I would say the weird leather-loop thing is ugly, sell my M8, and buy this baby. At $2.3k, I would do the same but probably keep my M8.

[Paul Luscher]

I guess I see it this way: Having one of these would be like owning a gold-plated Porsche.I'm not mad or offended that Leica did this--just doesn't interest me. It just not very practical--I'll take a humble black M, thank you.

I AM interested in the LED framelines, though. I 've had problems with the framelines going very dim or disappearing when shooting in low light. So this MIGHT tempt me into buying an M10 (if I can afford it), if it came with this feature.

And, Amateriat, when I saw "titanium," I thought the same thing: Hexar RF. A camera that disappeared too son. A nice and VERY AFFORDABLE use of titanium. Now why can't Leica think of that?

[jaapv]

Maybe Leica should partner with Porsche on these limited editions, selling a car and camera together. If one our very well-to-do RFF pals buys one of each, I'll gladly use their M9t to take pix from the passenger seat of the Speedster.

http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/09/21/2010-paris-preview-2011-porsche-911-speedster-only-356-will-be-made/

They do. R8-R9 was Porsche design, Summarit production line was by Porsche, M9Ti was by Volkswagen aka Porsche.

[ywenz]

Of those of us who said the M9t is ugly, I wonder how many would have a more charitable opinion if the price were around $2,995? or $2,295??? Maybe that extra digit to the left of the decimal point is decisive. I'd probably have had fewer nasty things to say in my posts if the darned thing weren't so expensive.

No, at that price I would purchase a normal M9.. even if both were the same $.

There's a visceral appeal to that wrap-around leatherette and the prism window that the M9T is lacking. And knowing that money went towards purchasing a machine with classic design appeals rather than a flavor of the month edition.

[JayGannon]

They would be more profitable if they focused their attentions to developing real-world products that more consumers would both want and afford. If they're bound and determined to remain an elitist, niche brand, they're going to continue to struggle and have to release offensive tripe like this.

What happened to their vow to put out a system for R-users? BS distractions like this aren't helping them reach that objective. They give us a limited edition collector's mishmash that will never see actual use by an actual photographer, and re-releases of Panasonic products. What happened to serving PHOTOGRAPHERS? They owe their reputation to the street and the trench, not the showcase.

I'm sorry but your incredibily wrong here.

Leica will make massive profit on each of these and that money will go into developing those systems for you and I.

As for it being offensive, stop being angry at someone just because they pay more than you for something. They owe their reputation for limited editions to their limite editions not their 'trenches' models. Their entirely different things and Leica has done special editions right back into the 1930's.

[antiquark]

M9Ti was by Volkswagen

I can believe it, maybe it was inspired by an old VW design...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/3116767999_f62430aeab_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kura-grill/3116767999/)
VW Thing, 1974 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kura-grill/3116767999/) by kura-grill (http://www.flickr.com/people/kura-grill/), on Flickr

[Paddy C]

You would think Leica killed some people's family members here. Sheesh.

I think it's a neat looking design and I also think Leica must innovate on that front if it wishes to continue. Just releasing an M10 that is a slight spec upgrade from the M9 wouldn't do much for them. This leads the way to something bolder.

But forget about this special edition. What is more problematic, if you are a Leica fan, is the rest of the program.

The usual re-badged Panasonics at twice the price. And a black X1 that is already history because Fuji just beat it into the ground with the X100. And I mean six feet into the ground.

Then you have the S system that appears (I'm absolutely not and never will be in this market sector) to be beat handily by the Pentax 645D (or whatever it's called).

[tom.w.bn]

Today I received the new LFI Magazine and the new "beauty" is on the front cover. The way it's photographed it doesn't even look so bad.

[Peter Wijninga]

Not a very good attempt. Ugly.

[LeicaFoReVer]

I believe the new fuji is much much more sexier than this new generation space age looking M9 :)

[robklurfield]

Jaap, I know they've partnered on design/engineering, etc. I meant, maybe Porsche should include an M9t as an accessory with each Speedster.

Or, perhaps, a specially badged camera as IWC did way back when they were Porsche Design's OEM or as Ferrari and Girard Perregaux did. Or, the current Bentley/Breitling partnership. Maybe an Porsche crest on the top plate? (Will cloisonne enamel even work with titanium??? probably not?) Not my personal taste, but people who buy trailer queen cars also buy showcase-bound cameras at premium prices.

Not in my budget anyway, so my opinion is of little import here.

If Porsche's strength is in engineering and design where price is not the primary objective AND Volkswagen's is doing the same thing to a limited price point, maybe VW engineers could show Leica how to ramp up production and lower the cost of making of M9's so that poor little old me could afford one without having to sell a kidney. In the meantime, I love my M8 and M2.

They do. R8-R9 was Porsche design, Summarit production line was by Porsche, M9Ti was by Volkswagen aka Porsche.

[CK Dexter Haven]

I'm sorry but your incredibily wrong here.

Leica will make massive profit on each of these and that money will go into developing those systems for you and I.

As for it being offensive, stop being angry at someone just because they pay more than you for something. They owe their reputation for limited editions to their limite editions not their 'trenches' models. Their entirely different things and Leica has done special editions right back into the 1930's.

Jay, no one slapped your child here.

I retain the right to be offended. I remain offended.

And, however "incredibly wrong" i may be about the finances, the fact is, IF Leica has relied upon special editions since the 1930s, it has not been sufficient to keep them out of financial difficulties. Taking another course might be wise. Of course, to the fanboys and apologists, whatever they do is proper/correct/right/godly. You're entitled to your devotion. Doesn't bother me.

I do disagree with your assertion, though. Leica's customer base was NOT built and maintained because of special editions. It's built on the reputations and images of HC-B, Koudelka, Erwitt, et al. No one here is a Leica devotee because they admire the Sultan of Brunei or the anonymous retired gentleman in Tokyo with a full display case. If you buy Leica because it's unattainable for the masses, you're a pretentious poser. None of the photographers responsible for the books in my library would ever shoot this camera. The 'legend' was built by working, published, and exhibited photographers.

Regarding your (erroneous) pop psychology analysis that i'm "angry that other people can spend more money" than i can.... Well, that's just a typical response, i suppose. 'If you can't afford it, you don't understand it.' Right? Ridiculous. As if it mattered, i've owned Leica in the past. Four different bodies, i believe. And, myriad lenses, including three of the new ASPHs. The money isn't the issue. I don't disparage the S2. Nor Hasselblad H. Or whatever. But, the money, IN CONTEXT, is a part of this discussion. It's relevant. But, whatever. Buy this camera. PLEASE. Support the company so that they can work on my R-solution. I will thank you in advance. But, if i see you on the street with this thing, i will act the child and mock you.

[JayGannon]

Jay, no one slapped your child here.
I retain the right to be offended. I remain offended.

And, however "incredibly wrong" i may be about the finances, the fact is, IF Leica has relied upon special editions since the 1930s, it has not been sufficient to keep them out of financial difficulties. Taking another course might be wise. Of course, to the fanboys and apologists, whatever they do is proper/correct/right/godly. You're entitled to your devotion. Doesn't bother me.

I do disagree with your assertion, though. Leica's customer base was NOT built and maintained because of special editions. It's built on the reputations and images of HC-B, Koudelka, Erwitt, et al. No one here is a Leica devotee because they admire the Sultan of Brunei or the anonymous retired gentleman in Tokyo with a full display case. None of the photographers responsible for the books in my library would ever shoot this camera. The 'legend' was built by working, published, and exhibited photographers.

Ok I retain my right to find your offense crazy and very immature for someone to be offended by a company producing a product that has no effect on your life.

I am not a Leica fanatic, the majority of my cameras are Nikons actually, I was debating a point of business not a point of fanaticism. If Leica was bad business it wouldnt be here, it has been mismanaged but people have seen business potential in it otherwise it would be here, Business 101.

At no point did I say they rely on special editions, I said they have produced special editions since the 19030's.What you and others seem to think is that this edition has somehow taken away from development of other models, it hasn't, development on others models will have plodded along as usual while this is going on, its like saying that the Gold plated M4 took away from the development of the M5.. its not logical in a businessplace.

And again you fail to understand that special editions have nothing to do with user camera development, Leica makes limited editions for collectors and VIP's not users, and yes their reputation as quality limited edition manufacturers has built their limited edition marketplace. And these people buy their 22k dollar M9T's exactly because of the Sultan of Brunei and gold plated Barnacks.

Quite seperate from their user development and userbase who have no interest in special editions, they are a userbase built on the works of actual photographers and people who use Leica cameras everyday. They are two seperate and distinct markets with very very little overlap other than people who complain about things in some misguided knowledge that special editions has somehow detracted from the development of a quality user camera.

Regarding your (erroneous) pop psychology analysis that i'm "angry that other people can spend more money" than i can.... Well, that's just a typical response, i suppose. 'If you can't afford it, you don't understand it.' Right? Ridiculous. As if it mattered, i've owned Leica in the past. Four different bodies, i believe. And, myriad lenses, including three of the new ASPHs. The money isn't the issue. I don't disparage the S2. Nor Hasselblad H. Or whatever. But, the money, IN CONTEXT, is a part of this discussion. It's relevant. But, whatever. Buy this camera. PLEASE. Support the company so that they can work on my R-solution. I will thank you in advance. But, if i see you on the street with this thing, i will act the child and mock you.I use cameras not collect them so why would I buy a camera that is not pitched at me in any way. Its pitched at collectors. And if you think money is a factor is buying a collectors item your way off the market, investment percentages and prestige are what win in that game.

If I erred in my pop psych I apologise but you ahve to admit that is the root of 90% of peoples issues with Leica new and old.

[hteasley]

I use cameras not collect them so why would I buy a camera that is not pitched at me in any way. Its pitched at collectors. And if you think money is a factor is buying a collectors item your way off the market, investment percentages and prestige are what win in that game.

I think folks are remembering last year and the M9, where Leica clearly jumped up a notch in innovation and tech. And this year, Leica appears to have gone back to their old formula of trading on past glory for collectors. One year of backsliding does not a pattern make, but one year of digital success doesn't, either. I think folks want to see signs that Leica is not going to stop upping their game and remaining relevant. This year did not deliver that message.

[jsrockit]

According to their profitability, they are again relevant. :)

[furcafe]

Well @ least they did introduce/test a new tech feature (LED framelines) in this special edition, unlike the others that simply had different cosmetics/styling (the only exception I can think of being the M6J, which had the high mag. VF).

I think folks are remembering last year and the M9, where Leica clearly jumped up a notch in innovation and tech. And this year, Leica appears to have gone back to their old formula of trading on past glory for collectors. One year of backsliding does not a pattern make, but one year of digital success doesn't, either. I think folks want to see signs that Leica is not going to stop upping their game and remaining relevant. This year did not deliver that message.

[JayGannon]

I think folks are remembering last year and the M9, where Leica clearly jumped up a notch in innovation and tech. And this year, Leica appears to have gone back to their old formula of trading on past glory for collectors. One year of backsliding does not a pattern make, but one year of digital success doesn't, either. I think folks want to see signs that Leica is not going to stop upping their game and remaining relevant. This year did not deliver that message.

Dont they kinda want to have their cake and eat it then...
Peopl are saying they want the old Leica back, but;

8 Leica M Film cameras in 56 years (old leica) = 1 camera every 7 years

Or including digital:

10 Leica M cameras in 56 years = 1 camera every 5.6 years.

And now people want a new camera every year? Which is it?

[semilog]

The M9 titanum, like this (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/photography/7935165/Private-jets-to-go-on-show-at-Brighton-Photography-Biennial.html) set of photographs, reminds me of the old wish that one day people with taste would have money, and people with money would have taste.

[semilog]

Ok I retain my right to find your offense crazy and very immature...

Fine, Jay, but what do you really think?

[aizan]

so...is the x2 going to have an optical viewfinder with LED framelines? cuz that would kick ass.

[semilog]

I can believe it, maybe it was inspired by an old VW design...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/3116767999_f62430aeab_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kura-grill/3116767999/)
VW Thing, 1974 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kura-grill/3116767999/) by kura-grill (http://www.flickr.com/people/kura-grill/), on Flickr

That's an insult to the Thing.

[JayGannon]

Fine, Jay, but what do you really think?

I think its a collectors camera, I hope that Leica put the 10 million or so dollars profit into developing even better cameras, film or digital or ideally both! Then I think I might buy one, probably second hand as I am like that, and go out and shoot photos with it so I can pay my bills and hopefull eat something nicer than ramen in the forseeable future...

[flyalf]

Really a great looking camera. Hope this is the outlook for the M10.

I find the negative reception in this and other fora hard to understand :bang:. I was under the impression that I am a broing old f*rt, so what does this tell about those faulting the new look?

[Jack Conrad]

The pictures of this beast don't show on my Mac Safari browser (the latest).

It probably doesn't show up in a mirror either.

But hey, it's finger print resistant. Thieves, bankers and politicians aught to love it. :rolleyes:

[Doug]

I think the M9T is very good looking, but important to keep in mind it's primarily a design exercise. They brought in an experienced designer, Walter de'Silva, from Audi in Ingolstadt, a VW subsidiary. So design is the main effort, not technology; a showcase. This to me is the disappointing part.

Mr De'Silva had a tough job here, don't you think, trying to apply some kind of design elements to the exterior of the elegant, simple M body without being able to change the basic "package". So the design is like icing on a cake, slathered onto the exterior.

The exception to that is the Leica logo. Liking car badges, Mr De'Silva thought it important to display the Leica logo prominently... and in particular in geometric alignment with the lens centerline. But the frameline illumination window was in the way... He asked the engineers if there could be a solution to this problem. They came up with the internal illumination LED for this reason.

Well @ least they did introduce/test a new tech feature (LED framelines) in this special edition, unlike the others that simply had different cosmetics/styling (the only exception I can think of being the M6J, which had the high mag. VF).
Well, unfortunately, there are no LED framelines, just LED illuminated standard frameline mask. A missed opportunity for technical advancement, perhaps, but then this is after all just a design exercise. In that photo with the M9T boxed, the other cameras at right are other concept candidates for the exercise.

[jaapv]

I think folks are remembering last year and the M9, where Leica clearly jumped up a notch in innovation and tech. And this year, Leica appears to have gone back to their old formula of trading on past glory for collectors. One year of backsliding does not a pattern make, but one year of digital success doesn't, either. I think folks want to see signs that Leica is not going to stop upping their game and remaining relevant. This year did not deliver that message.

Actually, the M9 should have been presented this Photokina, but Leica gave it to us as as soon as they could. This is like you have been given a cookie warm from the oven and are complaining you didn't get a second one soon enough, instead of munching it.

[skibeerr]

Actually, the M9 should have been presented this Photokina, but Leica gave it to us as as soon as they could. This is like you have been given a cookie warm from the oven and are complaining you didn't get a second one soon enough, instead of munching it.

Bugger them for forgetting to give one to me.

Wim

[Eddie90723]

So, when the traveling Leica M9 class / show comes to town.... Do you think they will be willing to discuss this work of art / abomination with the students?

[robklurfield]

mmm! the smell of fresh baked cookies. can't leica hand out some betriebsk (sp??) versions of the M9t or M10 to some RFF'rs for testing?;)

[jaapv]

Bugger them for forgetting to give one to me.

WimI usually don't shout ;)

[Viktor Sebastian]

Not sure if this has been posted but here is a PDF (http://us.leica-camera.com/assets/file/download.php?filename=file_5080.pdf) explaining the idea process behind this camera. Also included are images of the other 5 concepts.

[skibeerr]

@ jaapv,

yes I should use the preview thingy :angel:


Krijg ik nu mijn M9 ?

Wim

[Ron (Netherlands)]

@ jaapv,

yes I should use the preview thingy :angel:


Krijg ik nu mijn M9 ?

Wim

Giving....as though it came from Heaven....:angel:

[hteasley]

Actually, the M9 should have been presented this Photokina, but Leica gave it to us as as soon as they could. This is like you have been given a cookie warm from the oven and are complaining you didn't get a second one soon enough, instead of munching it.

I'm not really complaining: I don't have an M9 yet, so it's still new to me. In fact, I'm happy, as the M9 permitted the price drop on M8s such that I could afford one. So yay me.

But I think I'm seeing the frustration accurately. Leica has not been a relevant innovator in photography for a while. Last year, the M9, and to a lesser extent the X1, changed that. Suddenly, Leica is at the forefront again. But you don't stay there without continually showing some progress. This year, they didn't keep it up, they played it safe and quiet, and Fuji stole the show.