Tell me about your stealth street shooting technique

[Arjay]

I live in Munich, Germany, where the Oktoberfest (which is on right now) provides phantastic occasions for street shooting.

The problem: Its CROWDED and everybody is constantly in motion (possible even myself as the photographer).

Therefore, I am looking for tips and tricks on how to shoot candids, and I'd like to know how you do it.
Do you shoot "from the hip" (even if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?
How do you hold your camera (if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?
How do you make sure you have a good camera-to-eye coordination if you're not using the viewfinder?
What are your recommendation for a rule for the longest viable shutter speed (considering how you hold your camera)?
What camera do you use (RF or SLR)?
Do you have any specific tips for using SLRs - specifically how you're focusing?
Zone focus or autofocus?
If you're using autofocus: Do you use single or servo focus?
What are your settings for AF focus point selection (single-point, multipoint, nearest posstible object etc.)?

[Sparrow]

I just stand there and take photos, it's a festival they will expect a photographer

[Renzsu]

1. Yes, if I'm stuck in a place and I REALLY don't want to get noticed.. on the street though I usually just shoot regularly even up close. People usually don't mind.
2. Neckstrap wrapped around my arm two times, I can just leave the camera hanging on my fingers without having to grip it, but when needed I have it in the right position almost instantly.
3. I don't, I don't really mind if my horizon is not straight or if the subject is slightly out of frame. You get better after a while with the guessing though, especially if you stick with 1 lens.
4. I move around a lot so I don't really want to go any slower than 1/125 or 1/250.
5. RF (M6/M8)
6. Center weight / center metering and MF if you can swing it
7. zone focus
8. single
9. single point (center weight)

[ndnik]

Hey, I'm in Munich myself! I've done some street in Munich, and generally had no problems. Oktoberfest seems like a great opportunity.

I preset exposure, light is usually quite predictable and stable when shooting at any given location. I preset focus to about 2-3m, depending on the lens I'm using (closer for 28mm, a bit further for the 35mm). I use my M6 or M4.

The most important tip, I think, is to not try to hide what you are doing. Do what you want to do, but do it openly. Frame through the viewfinder. You project your attitude and people will notice if you feel uncomfortable. If you feel what you are doing is voyeurism, your subjects will feel the same about it. If you feel comfortable, your subjects will feel that you're doing your thing and that it is natural. Good luck!

[Arjay]

Thank you folks for your quick answers!

To get this discussion going, and to also get offbeat answers, I want to tell you what I tried out yesterday:

I used my Nikon D300 in order to get fast "chimping" feedback, and here's what I tried:
I shot without looking through the viewfinder.
I held the camera in landscape orientation, with my right hand, and pressed the bottom left corner of the camera onto my chest, just below my chin. the camera looks left at 45 degrees to my chest.
Holding the camera that close to my eyes, and using it at a FOV equivalent to 28mm and 35mm on a full frame 35mm camera, it seems fairly easy to estimate what the camera effectively is going to "see".
From looking at my first pictures (which I am going to present later today), it seems I need to have a minimum shutter speed that is 3EV faster than what I would normally use for an equivalent 35mm camera FOV (example: 24mm on my D300 corresponds to 35mm for full frame, resulting speed is 3 EVs faster than 1/30s - > 1/250s). This takes into account that I myself might also be moving as I shoot.
I used a DSLR for fast feedback. Once I have confirmed and refined my method, I'll also use it with my RF.
That's where it is going to get really interesting - I think there's a way to even use AF in my DSLR, but I'm not yet done with testing.
Zone focus, if my tests won't work out. Right now, I'm testing AF.
Continuous AF. There's no focus confirmation on my D300 in Continuous, so I'll have to learn to trust the system...
I am testing multipoint - my D300 seems to have a bias to focussing on the nearest available object, as long as that object is near the image center.ndnik - your photo blog is awesome ...

[surfer dude]

Whatever works for you, Arjay, but I think the three previous answers are spot on. Just exude an air of confidence, that you have a right to be there and do what you are doing, and people won't even think twice.

The beauty of that approach is that you will get the photos you want, rather than the pictures the camera happens to get. And you will have a better time as you will be able to project yourself more "in the moment" than by hoping the camera is pointed somewhere interesting.

I have not many memories of the 1980 Oktoberfest :o, but the few that remain are good!

[Bill58]

I use a Canon 25 on my Model P or L1 with a big/ bright VC accessory finder set at F5.6/ 12 or 250 speed (hyperfocal distance) and "shoot and scoot" (get away fast) from eye level. The locals here are pretty camera shy and if you stay around long, they're gonna get pissed off or they put up that silly "V" sign with their fingers. I usually shoot at about 1-2 meters distance.

[btgc]

Most of times I pretend to be dorky tourist looking around for photo opportunities, raising and lowering camera so I can approach people with wide angle lens closely. When using AF camera, I aim camera at ground, lock focus and recompose on move. Being busy with camera and myself seems to be best stealth mode. I believe many employ this technique.

[anbe]

I've never visited the Oktoberfest, but I like very much to shoot in crowded situations, like open markets or crowded streets.
Normally I shoot with 400 iso BW film (mainly Fomapan 400), 35mm lens, and at a distance of 2-3 meters.

I've tried the standard approach (I mean camera to eye) but without good results because people is aware of me (I'm not pretty stealthy: 190cm and 110kg), and this awareness changes their expression.
For this reason I prefer the belly approach. 400 iso film, f from 5.6 to 8, time at least 1/250 and fixed focus at 2.5 - 3 meters. The training of how to handle the camera took a while, but now the results are pretty consistens and satisfying (at least for me). With this approach I'm able to capture the real face and body expressions and the perspective is really amazing.
I shoot both with motor SLR (Eos 3) and with manual SLR (OM-2), the latter being stealthier (less noisier) but slower (manual winding).

Another solution that I'm now testing (and training myself) is the Oly XA "from the hip", but the results are not still good enough.

[Lilserenity]

Here's my answers, maybe they will be useful?


Not much (except with the TLR!) as I find I end up with more duff photos that way and I don't overly like the perspective with 35mm, it looks a bit, well, bit too discrete and impersonal.
If I am street shooting in my hand with the strap wrapped around my hand (in case someone decides to have a go of grabbing it out of my hand) - less distracting to people that way than when around you neck. When doing landscapes or walking, always around my neck
n/a
With a TLR I can get very good 1/15th sec shutter speed most of the time, with my M2 and OM2 I really try to stay at or above 1/60th with wide and standard lenses, 1/125th with 100mm lenses. I will use the M2 at slower speeds and try to brace the camera by pushing my elbows into my body so they a have some ballast if that makes sense.
RF, SLR and TLR -- at the moment mostly SLR and TLR
Well, I preset a DOF when street shooting, usually f/5.6+ on the TLR or with my OM Zuiko 100mm lens if I can, or with 50mm around f/2.8 or f/4. Then when focussing, well I work bloody quick and focus but with a decent amount of DOF I have a little margin of error.
Well, I don't zone focus really, I actually work to focus the image manually, takes a fair bit of practice to get the results. Sometimes I'll set my 28mm to f/5.6 at infinity or 50mm to infinity at f/8 and shoot but I am never as happy with the results.
n/a
n/aVicky

[xxloverxx]

Do you shoot "from the hip" (even if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?
Rarely
How do you hold your camera (if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?
Just like normal, with the strap wrapped around my arm
How do you make sure you have a good camera-to-eye coordination if you're not using the viewfinder?
If you mean "how do you aim properly without looking through the viewfinder?", I only use a 50 so it becomes pretty easy after a while
What are your recommendation for a rule for the longest viable shutter speed (considering how you hold your camera)?
1/100 for most shooting
What camera do you use (RF or SLR)?
RF — Zorki C & 4
Do you have any specific tips for using SLRs - specifically how you're focusing?
Don't use them for street anymore
Zone focus or autofocus?
Zone, it being my only choice
If you're using autofocus: Do you use single or servo focus?
N/A
What are your settings for AF focus point selection (single-point, multipoint, nearest posstible object etc.)?
N/A

[thomob]

what works for one might not work for the other. street photography is not so much from the way you shoot it, but what you see and how you go about capturing it. so no one approach will work for every situation.

go out there and shoot, thats all i can suggest. learn from your mistakes, even if one of those mistakes gets you an angry approach or even a punch in the face..

[filmfan]

My stealth street shooting technique is to not attempt to be stealth, for there is nothing wrong with taking photos of people in public. People will react more openly and soon forget you if you dont try to sneak photos and be all "stealth".

[cnphoto]

My best results have been with my Super Angulon (21mm). Camera around my neck/accross my body with my right hand holding the camera ready to bring up to my eye.

F3.4 and focus set to 2.5m means that everything from 2m to 5m is in focus. If closer I rock the focus to about 1.8m.

Accessory finder in the hot shoe and I use that to frame. Shutterspeed anywhere from 1/125th to 1/30th. I find this method to be very fast for me, I mostly shoot at night so maybe that helps people not notice as much.

I'm trying to shoot more with a 50mm at the moment but it's a lot harder (for me).

[Arjay]

Here is one of my results from yesterday's shooting session on the Oktoberfest. The thing I like about this technique is that this way of holding the camera doesn't let people think I'm photographing. So, I can watch closely (even making eye contact) to get exactly what I need into the picture.

Here's an example:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/33376/U33376I1284989300.SEQ.0.jpg

More pictures from Sunday's session can be seen in my gallery.

[willie_901]

The key to achieving stealthness when street shooting is speed. This means you must know your camera/lens very well. Most people never even know they've been photographed when you're fast. The only way to be fast is to fully understand your camera and practice, practice, practice.

1. Do you shoot "from the hip" (even if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?

Rarely, my personal decision is photographs should be composed and cropped as little as possible.

2. How do you hold your camera (if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?


To my eye. When I use my Lumix G1 I occasionally use the rotating live view screen as a top view finder. But this is rare.

3. How do you make sure you have a good camera-to-eye coordination if you're not using the viewfinder?

I almost always use the view finder. Otherwise a wide-angle lens (at least 28 mm in 135 format terms) is useful if you can learn how to hold the camera level and parallel to the subject.

4. What are your recommendation for a rule for the longest viable shutter speed (considering how you hold your camera)?

This depends entirely on the lens, 1/focal length works is the standard advice. I use the shortest possible shutter speed.

5. What camera do you use (RF or SLR)?

RF (actually EVIL now) 90% of the time.

6. Do you have any specific tips for using SLRs - specifically how you're focusing?

SLR's are too difficult because of their size and loudness. I would zone focus using a lens with a focus scale. Or I would pre-focus. My D300/D700 has very fast AF and it can be set up to work very well.

7. Zone focus or autofocus?

Zone focus for me. But lots of practice learning SLR AF system would also work.

8. If you're using autofocus: Do you use single or servo focus?

I use single. I do not use the shutter release to set AF. AF is set with a button on the body and the I compose. Either lens focal length or aperture insures the DOF covers the subject(s).

9. What are your settings for AF focus point selection (single-point, multipoint, nearest posstible object etc.)?

I use single point as mentioned above Lots of practice with a competent multi-point system will work too. I have confidence in the D300/D700 multi-point AF. However, I still prefer focus and recompose. I want to decide when the shutter releases instead of the AF system.

[PatrickONeill]

Do you shoot "from the hip" (even if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?
About half of the times, I shoot from the hip. I'm not all that good at it. and I only resort to shooting from the hip with a digital camera. spray and pray. with film, I "be a man about it" and put the camera to my eye.
How do you hold your camera (if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?
I hold it vertically, close to my chest. makes for a good place to shoot from there, or to raise it to the eye with little fuss.
How do you make sure you have a good camera-to-eye coordination if you're not using the viewfinder?
Practice, practice, practice. and shoot in volume because you are relying on luck.
What are your recommendation for a rule for the longest viable shutter speed (considering how you hold your camera)?
Grabbing shots, I want to be at least 1/250. Ideally, 1/1000
What camera do you use (RF or SLR)?
both, depends on what camera looks good to me for that day.
Do you have any specific tips for using SLRs - specifically how you're focusing?
99% of the time I use the "back button" for AF functionality. center spot, and focus and recompose. you can get pretty fast if you stick to it and learn it. I wish Canon would make a DSLR with the eye control focus! What I'm having fun with now is experimenting with the A-DEP mode at ISO400.
Zone focus or autofocus?
RF: zone 90%. SLR: AF all the way
If you're using autofocus: Do you use single or servo focus?
AI focus, a hybrid of the two methods.
What are your settings for AF focus point selection (single-point, multipoint, nearest posstible object etc.)?
Centerpoint, I can not trust automatic multi-point selection. What I would give to have eye control focus again!oh, and here, a picture.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/4991667091_c1328e056d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightcapturestudio/4991667091/)
Workers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightcapturestudio/4991667091/) by lightcapturestudio (http://www.flickr.com/people/lightcapturestudio/), on Flickr


shot from the hip, minimal cropping (for rotation) at the fullframe equiv of 50mm.

[Nikkor AIS]

As of late, I refuse to be stealthy in any manner. I'm a photographer taking pictures of people and things on the street. Period. However, I will look past/beyond the person whom I just shot. Often they will look back as if saying, "What the hell is he looking at?" And when asked, "Did you just take my picture?" I'm even starting to walk towards them with a warm smile and say hello. Which is new for me.

It's a Leica thing :). I'm serious, these magnificent cameras have redefined my mind set on the street. While I still have my Nikons, I really love the intimacy and rush I get when I shoot with the Leicas "up close and personal." I think it adds something to the photo that they are aware of my presence, if only for an instant.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/91460023/1001694671_thtCY-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/13705606_DxBhb#1001694671_thtCY-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/92160020/1001725331_Aqjg5-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/13705606_DxBhb#1001725331_Aqjg5-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/92160032/1001724837_XvPPZ-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/13705606_DxBhb#1001724837_XvPPZ-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/92380021/1001735951_JazqC-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/13705606_DxBhb#1001735951_JazqC-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/92380025/1001735329_dgFE9-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/13705606_DxBhb#1001735329_dgFE9-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/92620035/1001749421_Eg3RK-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/13705606_DxBhb#1001749421_Eg3RK-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/92620012/1001750746_JYbuE-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/13705606_DxBhb#1001750746_JYbuE-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/92640010/1001754436_oVQDz-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/13705606_DxBhb#1001754436_oVQDz-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/92670004/1001758800_KQXFS-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/last-of-summer-2010/13705606_DxBhb#1001758800_KQXFS-A-LB)

[Alpacaman]

Here is my ultimate stealth shooting technique.

You will need: A Leica, a Leica motor winder, some gaffer tape, a boomerang, a ninja costume, and some throwing knives, oh, and some film.

1. Buy a Leica motor winder, and some gaffer tape.

2. Attach your motor winder to the Leica.

3.Tape your Leica to the boomerang.

4. Don your ninja outfit.

5. Sprint around the place in your ninja outfit, finding potential victims.... er.... people.

6. When a suitable target is spotted, tape the shutter button of your Leica down, so it is continuously firing, thanks to the motor.

7. Throw your Leica/Boomerang at the mark, then catch it when it comes back, all the while doing flying ninja kicks in mid air.

8. You hopefully have some nice photos from the boomerang throw.

9. Sprint away, throwing your throwing knives behind you as to avoid being chased.

10. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[jky]

The most important thing is to know you're equipment so you're not fussing with it when you should be taking photos...

if using AF, then I focus where I anticipate the subject will be and lock it there... this is pretty much the same thing as zone focusing...

Really, just go out and shoot!

Oktoberfest & crowds... you won't be the only one with a camera so why not attach a flash to your D300 and fire away? May as well go all out and be a Bruce Gilden for a day.

[israel_alanis]

Hi Arjay, I usually don't hide, the more normal side of the pass of people is easier for me to take pictures of them.

1 .- I shot even I don't hold camera at hip.
2 .- usually hold the camera with my right hand with finger ready, a pre-focus 3.4 meters with a range of 2-7 meters with f8, or pre focus of 2.5 meters and 1.6 -4.5 meters of range.
3 .- I'm not sure I have a good coordination with the camera, but I usually use a 40mm allowing me a good range of accuracy, when using 75mm I turn to see in a discreet and fast way the person I want to photograph, I locate where it is and after I look my camera trying to direct it to where I remember is my subject. Sometimes the pictures taken of 1 to 3 meters many times already as placing the camera. Some time if I detect good mood I shot in front just putting my camera in front of them.:s
4 .- I live in Mexico City, and here people do not walk slow, so usually use 100 or 250 speed, when slow places such as parks, trucks, shopping malls, etc, I can shoot up to 50 speed.
5 .- I use my beautiful Robot Royal and canonet. SLR D90,D300.
6 .- Many of the economic lens of the SLR's do not have specified in focus ring distances in meters or feet to make pre focus. in this case I have to trust the camera's autofocus is ideal, but in my experience even with a D90 to D300 autofocus sometimes fails for light conditions and you can lose a good photograph. If your lens is marked distances, the ideal is to make a pre-focus in combination with an f to have a good range of focus without problems.
7 .- Zone focus forever.
8 .- If you use Canon or Nikon will use long servo autofocus focus, is a good tool to follow your subject.
9 .- The truth I do not why, but I always use a single AF point.

Arjay Greetings.

[Renzsu]

Just as a note, shooting from the hip has its merits besides being less conspicuous. I'm a pretty tall guy, so whenever I shoot regularly I have to think about lowering myself a bit, otherwise it may look a bit like a top down photo. Shooting from the hip can be a nice reminder for me to keep this in the back of my head and to see the benefit of changing your own perspective on things.

regular:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4743131792_83eeb9fd3e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/renzsu/4743131792/)

vs from the hip:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4757335630_359d3112ed.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/renzsu/4757335630/)

[furcafe]

Ditto. Big events & festivals, especially those involving drinking large quantities of alcohol, are some of the places where being super discreet/stealthy/sneaky is hardly necessary.

I just stand there and take photos, it's a festival they will expect a photographer

[Arjay]

Alpacaman, your message made me chuckle! Indeed, even if I take pictures stealthily, I maintain a smile on my face, because there's no guarantee that I will not be uncovered. Actually, yesterday this happened to me twice:

'Did you just shoot me?'
'Yeah , because you look great'
'Oh really? Well, then that's ok. have a nice evening!'
'And you too.'

Oktoberfest & crowds... you won't be the only one with a camera so why not attach a flash to your D300 and fire away? May as well go all out and be a Bruce Gilden for a day.
Hm. Last night I saw someone using his Leica R SLR with a flash Gilden-style. Actually, I found his way of shooting quite disruptive with the flash and all.

Israel, after doing a series of stealth pictures, the sun had set and there wasn't enough light to go on using my technique. Interestingly, the experience of shooting that way was so reassuring, that I continued into the night, taking my pictures the normal way, and I still had fun. However, I didn't dare to get as close as I did when I photographed stealthily (1 to 1.8 meters for stealth shooting).

Renzsu - I love your pictures, especially the second one. I often look into yourt Flicke because I can learn from the way you take your pictures.

[PatrickONeill]

[...] so why not attach a flash to your D300 and fire away? May as well go all out and be a Bruce Gilden for a day.

I got to try that sometime, the state fair is coming up.. hmmm. :angel:

[Paul Luscher]

Not much to add to the above, except to say that this is where a manual focus camera works best--I usually zone focus and use a fairly small aperture which gives me enough depth of field to ensure a sharp photo. Usually use a wide angle or 50mm lens.

[jky]

I got to try that sometime, the state fair is coming up.. hmmm. :angel:

A friend whom I occasionally shoot with uses a flash quite effectively in his street photography. It adds another dimension to the photo I believe and I've become quite a fan of it lately...
A fair would be a good place to start I'm thinking as there will be plenty of people with cameras around.
Stick a 28mm lens + flash + focus at 4-6 ft & fire away!

[maddoc]

Judging from your first photo you found your way ! :)

[jbielikowski]

f/8 and you have it! only problem is what Renzsu mentioned, with wide angle everybody look smallish.

[furcafe]

Yes, but in crowded environments, you'll be very close to other people, so they won't be small (unless you're using a superwide).

f/8 and you have it! only problem is what Renzsu mentioned, with wide angle everybody look smallish.

[Cron]

when using my RF - normally not stealthy or from the hip;
when using my CLux, I usually carry it inside my right hand (!) and shoot in this way during walking without using the screen or change the holding! This tiny little thing gave me some nice pics this way!

Have fun on the Oktoberfest!

[ampguy]

If I were older, and lived in the part of the world where you do Arjay, and saw you shooting 45 deg away from where you were looking, I'd likely think you were a Gestapo agent.

But then after realizing it's 2010, probably just calling the police on you for spying or being a perv :p

Hi Arjay, I usually don't hide, the more normal side of the pass of people is easier for me to take pictures of them.

1 .- I shot even I don't hold camera at hip.
2 .- usually hold the camera with my right hand with finger ready, a pre-focus 3.4 meters with a range of 2-7 meters with f8, or pre focus of 2.5 meters and 1.6 -4.5 meters of range.
3 .- I'm not sure I have a good coordination with the camera, but I usually use a 40mm allowing me a good range of accuracy, when using 75mm I turn to see in a discreet and fast way the person I want to photograph, I locate where it is and after I look my camera trying to direct it to where I remember is my subject. Sometimes the pictures taken of 1 to 3 meters many times already as placing the camera. Some time if I detect good mood I shot in front just putting my camera in front of them.:s
4 .- I live in Mexico City, and here people do not walk slow, so usually use 100 or 250 speed, when slow places such as parks, trucks, shopping malls, etc, I can shoot up to 50 speed.
5 .- I use my beautiful Robot Royal and canonet. SLR D90,D300.
6 .- Many of the economic lens of the SLR's do not have specified in focus ring distances in meters or feet to make pre focus. in this case I have to trust the camera's autofocus is ideal, but in my experience even with a D90 to D300 autofocus sometimes fails for light conditions and you can lose a good photograph. If your lens is marked distances, the ideal is to make a pre-focus in combination with an f to have a good range of focus without problems.
7 .- Zone focus forever.
8 .- If you use Canon or Nikon will use long servo autofocus focus, is a good tool to follow your subject.
9 .- The truth I do not why, but I always use a single AF point.

Arjay Greetings.

[Arjay]

Ah yes ampguy - I had already been waiting for your comment. Oh yeah, we Germans, ve haf our vays ...

[russelljtdyer]

Arjay,

I took the crappy photograph below of a church in Amsterdam about six years ago before I bought my first decent camera. To take the shot, I had to walk about 100 meters to the right, cross a small bridge over a canal that runs in front of the church (but it's not in the shot), and then back 100 meters to get lined up with the church again. A guy who is in the shot--I'm not sure which--saw me taking the picture and yelled at me. I didn't realize he was talking to me at first. So he jumped on his bike and raced across the bridge and caught up with me as I walked off. He threw down his bike and demanded to know why I took his picture. I told him that I didn't take his picture, intentionally. He was pretty angry and ready to belt me. I showed him the shot on the LCD of the church and offered to delete it if he'd like. He said reluctantly that it was okay since his image was discernible, but that he didn't like people taking his picture. So, sometimes people get very upset. I'm glad it wasn't a film camera: I don't know what I would have done otherwise.

http://russell.dyerhouse.com/images/photographs/church.jpeg

[Arjay]

Ampguy, if you take pictures of anything else on the street than cats, you will sometimes have to resort to working inconspicuously. If you were informed, and had done some reading about street photography, you would know that working stealthily isn't something that's reserved for secret services or perverts.

I suggest you do some reading before you display your national prejudices:

Street photography for the purist (the classic by Chris Weeks. PDF file) (http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs11/f/2006/227/e/2/street_photography_for_the_purist.pdf)
Michael David Murphy's 'Ways of Working' (http://2point8.whileseated.org/wow-footer/)
Will Gunadi: Street Photography Deciphered (http://zuikography.com/?p=465)
Markus Hartel: Street Photography Q&A (http://www.markushartel.com/blog/learn-from-markus/street-photography-qa)
Jean-Pierre Bucciol: Concise Handbook of Street Photography (http://www.vide.memoire.free.fr/photo/textes/street/streeten.php)
Petteri Sulonen: Telephoto is for Cowards (http://www.prime-junta.net/pont/Pontification/n_Telephoto_Is_For_Wimps/a_Telephoto_Is_For_Cowards.html)

[ampguy]

I posted quite a few links to my street photo galleries in another thread, did you miss them? I'm sure they are not as good as your stuff, but I certainly do like shooting out on the street, but not hiding it, nor annoying people in any way.

Peace, brother.

http://matsumura.smugmug.com/Street-Scenes/20071025-m4p-fuji400-35mm-v4/62960004/212668503_z2v3P-L.jpg

M6, cron 35 v4:

http://matsumura.smugmug.com/Street-Scenes/20071103-m4p-fuji400-summicron/78240006/216873675_aEDog-L.jpg

I asked this guy if I could please take his photo, he readily agreed:

http://matsumura.smugmug.com/Street-Scenes/20071103-m4p-fuji400-summicron/78240020/216874301_W6oJ2-L.jpg

I noticed he was smiling above, not the way I had previsualized the image for the decisive moment, and requested politely if he could stand and not smile for a brief second, he complied, and I got the photo I wanted:

http://matsumura.smugmug.com/Street-Scenes/20071103-m4p-fuji400-summicron/78240021/216873189_FwHCK-L.jpg

and that's just one example of a win-win situation, everybody's happy, no stress, no sneakiness, no paranoia, no hard feelings, no drama, no violence.

"Don't stop believin' hold on to that feeeliiing .... "http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3JNB9ik85M8/SNnPuSeMgJI/AAAAAAAADFc/CuZXMLEIWr0/s1600/DSCF0885.JPG



Ampguy, if you take pictures of anything else on the street than cats, you will sometimes have to resort to working inconspicuously. If you were informed, and had done some reading about street photography, you would know that working stealthily isn't something that's reserved for secret services or perverts.

I suggest you do some reading before you display your national prejudices:

Street photography for the purist (the classic by Chris Weeks. PDF file) (http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs11/f/2006/227/e/2/street_photography_for_the_purist.pdf)
Michael David Murphy's 'Ways of Working' (http://2point8.whileseated.org/wow-footer/)
Will Gunadi: Street Photography Deciphered (http://zuikography.com/?p=465)
Markus Hartel: Street Photography Q&A (http://www.markushartel.com/blog/learn-from-markus/street-photography-qa)
Jean-Pierre Bucciol: Concise Handbook of Street Photography (http://www.vide.memoire.free.fr/photo/textes/street/streeten.php)
Petteri Sulonen: Telephoto is for Cowards (http://www.prime-junta.net/pont/Pontification/n_Telephoto_Is_For_Wimps/a_Telephoto_Is_For_Cowards.html)

[Nikkor AIS]

I was shooting on the street and a couple was watching me work and we started talking. They were laughing about how I handled the situation.
Some guy riding his bike across the street whom I had just captured with the 35 Summilux and the Leica M7 and motor was kind of
bitching and nodding "no" to me not to take his picture after the fact. I'm so used to it, I just ignore them.
Unless they get close enough to touch me. Or as I was telling this couple, I act confused. It's not that hard for me.

But lately I'm trying to be more connected and less confrontational. I still shoot without asking but now I spend the time to talk
to the people if "they" want to. When they get past the surprise of being photographed and see I'm such a good guy,
there is no conflict whatsoever.

And I photograph some really interesting folks. It's funny, when you get past first impressions, even the rough-looking types are okay.

You've got to treat everyone with respect.



http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/DSC01162/1014777933_JKJYd-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#1014777933_JKJYd-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/DSC01122/1014778441_NQPLs-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#1014778441_NQPLs-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/DSC1278/1018632404_JNDqU-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#1018632404_JNDqU-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/DSC3406/970618228_VqXG3-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#970618228_VqXG3-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/AAC4198/895588137_k3o62-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#895588137_k3o62-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/AAC4255/895476350_Z4VR4-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#895476350_Z4VR4-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/AAC42142/895474179_JqEtE-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#895474179_JqEtE-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/AAC42562/895476850_uPkZU-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#895476850_uPkZU-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/DSC4272/890447896_ZbL2s-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#890447896_ZbL2s-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/F1000002/793756303_CiT8d-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#793756303_CiT8d-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/AAC7578/821101553_DSdnp-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-28-14-D-AF/10927449_wfzxW#821101553_DSdnp-A-LB)


All taken with Nikkor 28 1.4 @ 1.4 on D3

I really think the most important thing is being confident, knowing your gear and not fiddling with controls on the camera.
Pre-visualize and have the camera set before it's pointed. Don't hesitate. Anticipate the moment and it's yours.
A warm smile and a little nod go a long way in avoiding conflict and keeping street shooting fun.

[Arjay]

Gregory, thank you for giving a positive twist to this thread! :cool:

[Nikkor AIS]

Thanks Arjay.

I'm kind of going through some heavy **** in my life right now, so I'm trying my best to keep it positive in "all" aspects of my life. For a couple of years, I really struggled with the negativity of street shooting from some people. Now I barely notice when I'm given some grief. It sounds cliché but I just keep moving forward, and in the short time I had to shoot today, I really think I got some killer shots. It's so cool shooting film and not knowing:p.

On a personal note, I really think the sneaky stuff is counter-productive to the big picture of "street shooting." As of late, I'm working this one corner and I'm starting to see some of the same faces. Before, they were rather standoffish. Now, I'm getting nods and smiles. Very cool.

While I'm not above shooting from the hip, I think there is an honesty to working in close and being up front when shooting. Don't get me wrong, I want spontaneous unstaged photos. I'm just more "open" and far more approachable than I used to be.

When I started shooting street, I was fearless. I really feel like I'm getting that feeling back. In fact, I'm there.

"Better days ahead'

I've said it more than once. It takes guts to be a street photographer.

Here are a couple from my archives.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/DSC0135/1009366189_R6Xsq-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#1009366189_R6Xsq-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/DSC93402/999991019_S68eH-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#999991019_S68eH-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/DSC93302/999710364_TwFRs-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#999710364_TwFRs-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/Young-Despite-the-Years-1/841635625_4qit4-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#841635625_4qit4-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/DSC7553/990655645_ycpLM-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#990655645_ycpLM-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/Woman-Pleading-with-Policeman/839784505_NzZWz-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#839784505_NzZWz-A-LB)

[silverbullet]

The solution is easy:

Just shoot people who can't see you....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36573929@N00/sets/72157625031362422/

Second tip: I look like a tourist. Minimum 3 cameras hanging around my neck, Bahama shirt and Birkenstock sandals are a must plus chewing gum...

[ashrafazlan]

Mine involves being really really fast, so that means I have to anticipate what might happen before I even lift the camera up to my face. Focus and metering is usually pre-set and tweaked if needed so all that's left is releasing the shutter. The downside to this is sometimes my composition can be slightly wonky but after a while it gets better.

[Arjay]

...
On a personal note, I really think the sneaky stuff is counter-productive to the big picture of "street shooting." As of late, I'm working this one corner and I'm starting to see some of the same faces. Before, they were rather standoffish. Now, I'm getting nods and smiles. Very cool.

While I'm not above shooting from the hip, I think there is an honesty to working in close and being up front when shooting. Don't get me wrong, I want spontaneous unstaged photos. I'm just more "open" and far more approachable than I used to be.

After three afternoons/evenings of photographing on the Oktoberfest, I concur with you.

It appears the subject of getting close and achieving completely unstaged pictures is indeed also a psychological problem.

After several hundred shots in my stealth method, I am realizing that most people are so preoccupied with themselves that most of them won't notice me anyway. Thus, an important factor is the intensity of distraction in the location where I am watching people (fairs a easy!).

As for the rest, you're right, If I just shoot my pictures without making any fuss about it nor wathing for others who might object, photographing is just cool. OTOH, I realize that getting close to other people (as required for really dynamic shots) isn't very easy if I'm not hiding what I do - because I feel that I am intruding onto others' 'zone of comfort'.

Incidentally, this zone of comfort is a culture-related phenomenon: In Germany, that zone normally has a diameter of 5 to 9 feet, in some mediterranean countries, this diameter is a lot smaller, right down to 4 feet.

I'm still learning ...


BTW, your second and third shots are gorgeous. Congratulations!

[KenR]

In some locations (Grand Central Terminal or streetfairs for example) everyone is too busy doing their own thing to notice me, and so I just shoot. But recently I've found that someone who is oddly dressed is really just crying out for attention. I engage them in conversation for a minute and then politely ask if I can take their picture. Most are more than willing and will even take gentle direction. Seems better than my older stealth method which led to several confrontations over the years.

[ebino]

Personal space is determined by density of people in certain a place. For example in an elevator personal space is inches, in a park its many yards or more. So, whether its Germany or China, people will relax their personal space rules if its crowded and especially if its a festive atmosphere.

Maybe its your own idea of what should be personal space and how close a photograph could get that is stopping you from getting close. most of the time its our own hang ups that becomes a limitation to our photography and we project it on people, gear or something else... in my case i can never bring myself to ask someone if i can take their photo. I just feel it makes them an accomplice and if they refuse, i have lost the shot. While there is another amateur who i know and he would never take a photo unless he has taken permission from people or has made it clear from a distance that his taking their picture so they better pose for him.

I know this did not answer your question, but our personality decides our street photography technique, thats what i think.

[Nikkor AIS]

Thanks Jay.


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/93900008/1026031962_3w9Aj-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1026031962_3w9Aj-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/93900029/1026031025_KKEVR-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1026031025_KKEVR-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/93910027/1026034830_3nYED-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1026034830_3nYED-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/93940036/1027530952_MKCcZ-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1027530952_MKCcZ-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/93910028/1026035475_CnWf9-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1026035475_CnWf9-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/93910019/1026037979_UDy6z-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1026037979_UDy6z-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/93910034/1026032749_b4qhy-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1026032749_b4qhy-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/93960012/1027550818_hWkCX-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1027550818_hWkCX-A-LB)


35 Summilux 1.4 Leica M7 with Motor-Drive.

I really love these types of threads as they challenge my mind set. I always try to stay open to infinite possibilities™.
Right now I'm on an anti-stealth fixation. I have actually been waiting for my subjects to look at me.

[ebino]

here is Mark Cohen with his technique, of course later on copied by Bruce Gilden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOr5MHlJQUA&feature=related

[Bingley]

The advice to take photos of people when they're not looking at you, while sounding obvious, is on point. Other than that, here's what I do:

1) Shoot at f.8 or smaller if I can

2) Use zone focusing or hyperfocal focusing

3) Use a camera with a quiet shutter (see comment below)

4) Work fast

5) Avoid eye contact with the subject (unless you get busted, in which case smile)

If you're successful, you can take a photo like this w/out getting punched in the chops:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2084/2061413014_a68a55dd00_z.jpg?zz=1

I'm serious about the quiet shutter thing. I was doing some "street photography" at a local baseball game last month, using my Leica IIIc (which does not have a seriously quiet shutter). A guy heard the sound of the shutter, and confronted me about taking his picture. The situation got fairly ugly. He called security, I was detained, and it wasn't until some police officers explained that it was not illegal to take pictures of people in California that he relented and I was allowed to go. I wonder if this confrontation would have been avoided if I'd been using an M2 or Canon P, which are very quiet.

[Steve M.]

A small, black camera like a Leica CL is wonderful for the street. No one even notices it. The other thing that helps is to have a camera w/ a WLF. That will get you great shots because, again, no one notices it. A camera that isn't held up to your eye may as well be invisible.

[ampguy]

but I haven't found this the case, with a Nikon F3, and DW3 WLF. Looking intently down, with both hands holding a gadget of some type draws peoples eyes down to the camera, and then where it is aimed.

A small, black camera like a Leica CL is wonderful for the street. No one even notices it. The other thing that helps is to have a camera w/ a WLF. That will get you great shots because, again, no one notices it. A camera that isn't held up to your eye may as well be invisible.

[Spyro]

Wow good stuff Nikkor, got more?

[israel_alanis]

Arjay, Do you remember WNYC? with Bruce Gliden, Jamel Shabazz, Joe Wigfall, and many more... there are many kind of street photography techniques, all techniques are valid and each one work for one and do not for others.

I think this threat is very nice because we can read about techniques of street photography and learn about it, but I test one and I think it does not work for me... so let go for other one. and Street photography for purist is great Arjay.

Gregory your street photography is awesome, congratz.

And ampguy you show us some pics of your street photography, and they are fine, but about your comment maybe the goal is that no one talk to the police to arrest you and the most you can get is a piss bath on you, the goal is take that picture and everybody out think it is awesome or real.

Greetings.

[israel_alanis]

here is Mark Cohen with his technique, of course later on copied by Bruce Gilden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOr5MHlJQUA&feature=related

I had forgotten Mark Cohen, thanks Elbin.

[ironhorse]

I must say that I find the techniques of Mark Cohen and Bruce Gilden highly objectionable. They show a blatant disrespect for their subjects (or perhaps better described as objects) and wind up with uninteresting photos. I just don't get the point of it.

[atlcruiser]

I have some basic issues to deal with.....

I am 6' 2" and weigh about 260. Short hair, goatee, earings and big tattoos on the backs of my hands. I stand out in the crowd! Think tattooed yeti! I stand out dressed in a suit or with a few M bodies slung around my neck.

I do not go for the stealth approach much at all and the more I shoot the more comfortable I am. I am out there just doing my thing; as are the people I photograph.

I will look over some situations and not shoot if I dont feel right about it or if there is some sort of drama going on that i dont want to be a part of....does not happen too often.

When I see a static person or small group not moving/walking i do hesitate to just "jump in" and invade their space. Often, I make eye contact prior to shooting to judge the situation or to at least convey that i see them as people and not as subjects. Has worked well.

No idea why but when I am moving and the other people are moving as well I have no difficulty in jsut taking pictures of them...the static aspect changes things for me.

[BillBingham2]

David,

Yes stealth may not be a word used to describe you too often but it sounds like you have an approach that works. Using an XPan hung around the neck with a remote release (not sure if she takes a cable or not) is an approach that you might try. You need to develop a feeling of where your frame is, but with the large negative it might work well. I've done this sort of thing in places where I could not take pictures and it's worked well (with a Bessa L rather than an XPan, never had the pleasure of owning or using one of those beauties).

Everyone has their own approach, I have several depending upon where I am and what I am shooting with.

B2 (;->

[atlcruiser]

For some reason I feel guilty if I "hide" the fact i am taking the picture. That, to me, seems unfair. Almost as if I am robbing the subject .....

[dogberryjr]

I must say that I find the techniques of Mark Cohen and Bruce Gilden highly objectionable. They show a blatant disrespect for their subjects (or perhaps better described as objects) and wind up with uninteresting photos. I just don't get the point of it.


Amen to that.

[glenerrolrd]

Not sure if this already in the thread. One of the best techniques I ve seen is setting up the photograph by "setting the stage". I look for the background first...then I look at the flow through the light ...then I prefocus on likely spot and wait until the action comes to me. I can shot at any height from my foot to over my head (useful for crowd depth) but I also find if I hold the camera close to my eye and wait ..I can make a small movement to frame and shoot.

When people are walking they pick up on movement .. most think I am waiting to get a clear photograph of say a building.

But setting the stage really works to help create layers and depth in the image.

I find working with a RF much easier than a DSLR and I ve tried both on alternatives days. A DSLR and you can t take a wide angle shot without someone assuming you are zooming in on them.

[JohnnyT]

In SLR or Rangefinder, I put my focus to about 5 meter to prepare...

A. In RF, when I'm ready I quickly take the camera to my eye, look throught the VF finish the focus and this is it... I usually try to have a mininum of 1/60... But this is not that important, you just need enought speed for what you want. I the subject is moving, maybe a bigger F-Stop would help.

I also look at my camera of somewhere else after the shot just to be more "invisible"...

B. In SLR, I do something similar with DSLR, still with manual focus lens. I put the focus to about 5 meter, take a look at what I want and quickly bring the camera to my eye and finish the focus. I usually put my camera in single shooting and aperture priority. More easy with the SLR, so I can go at the F-Stop I want... And, I really don't care about stealth with that kind of camera, I'm more intruisive... which is not very polite, but is really fun :)

[raytoei@gmail.com]

been reading this thread and practicing some of the tips mentioned here.

in the first picture, i sort of guesstimated the distance.
in the second picture, i pre-focused on the glass and the subjects were somewhat not sharp.

I find that the choice of camera to be important, especially the size and shutter-sound. I am currently practicing scale and zone focusing on the XA and Rollei 35.

cheers!

raytoei

[dfoo]

Gregory, those are some outstanding shots.

As for myself, I don't hide. Just point and click. If someone doesn't like that I took their picture, I smile and apologize. No need to get confrontational or angry. If they kept it up, I'd just walk away; of course, that is theoretical since its never happened to me.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5036193272_99695bdb28.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mnewhook/5036193272/)
L1001329 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mnewhook/5036193272/) by mjnewhook (http://www.flickr.com/people/mnewhook/), on Flickr

Sometimes I shoot from the hip too, but its more for the perspective than to hide myself.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4105/5036195036_db2e97c1ee.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mnewhook/5036195036/)
L1001659 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mnewhook/5036195036/) by mjnewhook (http://www.flickr.com/people/mnewhook/), on Flickr

[ebino]

the idea of subject object is interesting, because HCB used people like neat objects for perfect composition of a decisive moment, but people like Cohen and Gilden give full attention and dedicate the full canvas to a single individual.

[israel_alanis]

I think stealth tech is been interpreting like hide yourself and I think it's going to be more cautious not to be seen to hide behind a bush, when I take pictures of someone in front of me, I do not get behind a tree, I took the picture in front but I have caution of they do not feel that I'm raising my camera to not change their stance, if they do not detect me and the time does not change, I have not troubled her life and I have a healthier picture.

And I think it is not necessary to invade the space of a person to take a picture, I have a photographer friend who uses a SLR and 300mm for street shot, and his photos are very good and by far not getting into trouble.

I think no one is hiding to take a picture, do you think??
Greetings.

[Arjay]

Thank you ebino for the link to the Mark Cohen video.

Interesting, in the video, Cohen also talks about the personal comfort zone (sometimes, its advantageous to understand German ;) ). Sure, this zone is somewhat dependent upon the situation (think elevator or crowded metro), and what one perceives as one's personal comfort zone is important in feeling at ease as a photographer.

What I personally am interested however is in other people's perception of that zone. To me, there is absolutely no doubt, that there's also a cultural component to it: I have talked to many people about this topic, and they all agree - even without any consideration of a photographer's influence - that there are indeed cultural differences.

I have experienced this when travelling from Germany to Italy or Spain. If you talk to people on the street, people in these countries are much more likely to grab your arm or to touch you in a discussion than e.g. in France or Germany. This effect was even more drastic in India - I recall, that their comfort zone is even tighter than in southern Europe.

The thing about this comfort zone is something very peculiar: If you as a photographer are caught photographing while outside this zone, you might get a strange look, but mostly without further consequences. OTOH, if you're inside that zone, people might feel offended. But then - pictures from inside the comfort zone are much more dramatic or telling in terms of expression than if you had been outside.

To someone who doesn't know Cohen's photography, this kind of picture-taking could appear voyeuristic, while I don't feel that when I look at his pictures.

Gilden, however appears to be very offensive in the videos I've seen of him, but I love the emotional bluntness of his pictures. Yet, I think he can only practice this type of photography in NYC - I guess he would have gotten himself into serious trouble, if he'd do that in the streets of any German city.

[israel_alanis]

You are right Arjay, Cohen is a very fine technique of photography, while Gilden is very aggressive, and I agree with you about culture place, here in Mexico if you met some people and talk with, they hugh you, smile etc, then you can photograph them every you want, If you try it in Colombia that could be a big problem in some zones.

Culture is a determinant of technique you can use or even take or not photos.

Regards.

[Nikkor AIS]

Thank guys.

I agree that there are many different ways to work on the street.

There is no right or wrong. It's interesting that some feel that there is a moral aspect to getting a picture one way or another. Over the last 20 years or so, I've used just about every tech described at one time or another.

So I'm certainly not going to point a finger and take the high moral ground. I'm better because ... :rolleyes:.

I will say that people have a sixth sense when it comes to being watched/noticed. And you can have the longest lens and shoot from a position of concealment. People can sense they are being observed.

I don't think it's a bad thing; it's a thing. And noticing the "thing" in a small way changes the thing.

I've even gone so far as to use wide lenses without looking at what I'm shooting.

There is so much to see in this world, and people are very interesting subjects to me. I never tire of people watching. The fact that I have a camera is incidental rather than essential for me.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/DSC2908/1028541617_GtEU3-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/13927125_eEvNY#1028541617_GtEU3-A-LB)

Some of my older work.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/DSC2835/1028545379_VU3UG-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/13927125_eEvNY#1028545379_VU3UG-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/DSC2751/1028542124_9zVss-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/13927125_eEvNY#1028542124_9zVss-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/DSC2884/1028547830_qeriU-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/13927125_eEvNY#1028547830_qeriU-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/DSC2765/1028543302_5bZss-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Policemans-other-ball/13927125_eEvNY#1028543302_5bZss-A-LB)

A few from yesterday.

Nikkor 80-200 2.8 ED AIS on D3

[zenlibra]

My street technique is to have the camera around my neck and holding it in my hand up under my chin/against my chest. I feel it is best to be open about what you're doing. I prefocus 3 metres and a minimum of f/8, adjusting shutter speed if necessary. I much prefer to have an external viewfinder on my camera so framing is super quick.

[buzzardkid]

Can't stress this enough (and I did before): have a look at Garry winogrand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl4f-QFCUek). In the YouTube clip, he is shown shooting street from 3:00 minutes onwards.

The man was a great street shooter, but he looks like a dork, test driving a camera. People passing by are not sure on taking him seriously or not.

Lotsa things have changed, but still nobody takes a weird acting guy with an old and obsolete camera serious. It's a great way to start and build confidence, and you might even keep on doing it!

[ebino]

Arjay:

There are so many reasons, most of them completely rational, not to take photos on the street. You could also limit yourself by saying, well, I only shoot film or I shoot medium format, digital, wide angle, telephoto, respect people's personal space and privacy etc... Theoretically there is no reason to do street photography, but something else forces one to risk it and go out in the world and take pictures. To me this contradictory nature of photography reaffirms the suspicion that photography is a purely emotional and irrational activity and hence anytime you begin to think rationally about it, you lose your way.

Its not so much the culture and people of where you wish to photograph, but how badly you want to photograph that eventually leads you to success or failure... New York during 50s was a pretty tough and violent place, but it did not stop any of the photographers from going out and risking it. All those photographers badly wanted to say something and they went out and did it. Robert frank took his family all around US and photographed, not only risking himself but his family. But the result was well worth it.


It seems you have an idea of taking close and dramatic shots. From a technical perspective that means using a wideangle lens, probably 21-24mm. With that wide focal length you can get really close and still photograph while most of the time people will think you're taking pictures of something else while they're in the frame. People don't know about focal lengths. if the camera is not pointed at them, they think you're not interested. Watch the video of Winogrand linked below carefully. Watch how he shoots people right opposite them but since his movement is so fast and strange people are confused... when a guy is looking at him, he keeps looking at the guy and shooting, because he knows if he turned back the guy might think he got afraid. His using an axillary viewfinder to make framing move very fast. he peeks, shoots and reloads so fast it looks like his fiddling with the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eitfGxc6vbw

By the way, I'm not saying that i have a technique or i do very well on the street. its just that i have been through that phase where i over-thought the whole thing and it was only when I let go of my own preconceived ideas and notions that i felt comfortable on the street. now i look forward to go and shoot while before it was a feeling of anxiety and insecurity.

[israel_alanis]

There are many expressions too, Im addicted to them and as Gregory said there are much to see in world.

regards.

[Arjay]

It seems you have an idea of taking close and dramatic shots. From a technical perspective that means using a wideangle lens, probably 21-24mm. With that wide focal length you can get really close and still photograph while most of the time people will think you're taking pictures of something else while they're in the frame.

That's pretty much my idea. However, I prefer slightly longer focal lengths for less distortions and a more natural perspective. Focal lengths of 21 to 24mm would actually mean I'd virtually have to touch the people I want to photograph. That may indeed be a challenge, but IMHO also a recipe of how to get yourself in trouble. ;)

I am using (35mm film equivalent) focal lengths of 28mm and 35mm. See my gallery (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=33376) for examples.

[atlcruiser]

One thin I did was to move down in lenses or wider....depends on how you look at it :)

I started to really shoot street shots with a 50. It worked pretty well and I had a "distance" I could work with. As I got more comfortable interacting with people I dropped to a 40 or 35. I would get closer to them as I was used to the framing on the 50 and more comfortable around the prople. Not too long after that I moved into 28/21 and found I got even closer :)

Reciently I have been using 2 m bodies both ith 35s on them or 1 m with a 28. I have yet to try a 28/21 2 body combo but i will soon.

[ebino]

That's pretty much my idea. However, I prefer slightly longer focal lengths for less distortions and a more natural perspective. Focal lengths of 21 to 24mm would actually mean I'd virtually have to touch the people I want to photograph. That may indeed be a challenge, but IMHO also a recipe of how to get yourself in trouble. ;)

I am using (35mm film equivalent) focal lengths of 28mm and 35mm. See my gallery (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=33376) for examples.

great photos and 28/35mm are the classic lenses to work with but since you want dramatic close shots then its actually the inherent distortion of the wideangel lenses that can generate that feeling of drama. you have nothing to lose by trying many types of lenses and focal lengths. also it helps to separate the photos which you like and want more of that way you really begin to see what you want and focus on that type of shots. edit as you shoot and try to work in a project sort of setup, that way your focus will be much better.

you can practice with a really wideangle with family or friends or people you know to see how you like it.

[ebino]

One thin I did was to move down in lenses or wider....depends on how you look at it :)

I started to really shoot street shots with a 50. It worked pretty well and I had a "distance" I could work with. As I got more comfortable interacting with people I dropped to a 40 or 35. I would get closer to them as I was used to the framing on the 50 and more comfortable around the prople. Not too long after that I moved into 28/21 and found I got even closer :)

Reciently I have been using 2 m bodies both ith 35s on them or 1 m with a 28. I have yet to try a 28/21 2 body combo but i will soon.

the wider you go the more focus leeway you have, so you can set to zone or hyperfocal focus and really work the situation still maintaining high shutter speed.

[ebino]

speaking of wideangle dramatic shots. there is a great example in today NY picture of the day segment. the first picture, i assume its shot somewhere between 18 and 24mm, you could see the distortion on the fence at the right, but the picture is great.

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/pictures-of-the-day-ecuador-and-elsewhere/?hp

[israel_alanis]

if only exist 28 or 24mm for my Robot Royal III :s

[andredossantos]

Here are a couple techniques I use here in NYC:

-With a 35mm or similar camera that you have to bring to your eye I act like a tourist. Point it up at the buildings right before bringing it down to press the shutter. Or, looked dazed and pretend you're shooting behind people. If confronted I simply say that how on earth can one take photos of NYC and not get people in the frame. You can also quickly frame then bring the camera slightly away from the eye when you click the shutter. People assume you are waiting for a shot, or something.

-Second method is use my TLR's in which case no special technique is needed since everyone assumes you are some sap fiddling with a dumb old antique.

[Nikkor AIS]

This has been a great thread. I have so much respect for many of the contributors to this thread. There is really some excellent information to glean.
Taking a different approach today, I went a-walking with the my Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AIS and my D3. Of course I also had my Leica MP around my neck, ready to go. I only got a couple that were worth showing.

The thing about using telephotos for street shooting is you have to look ahead and be aware that swinging a large lens up from your side can draw unwanted attention from your subject. So I try to make my motions smooth and measured. Which is also a must when toting a 20-pound lens and 5-pound camera hand held ;). I really can't heft it very long so I time my lift and focus pull to as short a time as possible.

While it would be easier on the left wrist to use a monopod, the stealth of the long pole (monopod) makes it unacceptable for me to use on the street.

Saying that, I'm not opposed to using natural and manmade supports whenever possible. And if they happen to shield me from sight, all the better.

Many animals use cover and camouflage and street shooters with telephotos are no different.

I don't consider it cheating to use long lenses as it's not so much about the sneakiness of using a long lens at a distance as the "look" and spontaneity you get when you use a long, fast lens.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/DSC3254/1035705741_Uwee5-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/10930112_QtzwA#1035705741_Uwee5-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/DSC30132/1035649030_mxsqS-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/10930112_QtzwA#1035649030_mxsqS-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/DSC3259/1035706306_Kzepw-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/10930112_QtzwA#1035706306_Kzepw-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/DSC3526/769005927_aAWbn-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/10930112_QtzwA#769005927_aAWbn-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/DSC3542/769006051_64GMf-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/10930112_QtzwA#769006051_64GMf-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/DSC3634/769006000_yrt3G-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-300-20-IF-ED-AIS/10930112_QtzwA#769006000_yrt3G-A-LB)

Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AIS

Photos of me shooting by Kat.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-800-56-IF-ED-AIS/AAC4035/785925711_DbXyK-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Nikkor-800-56-IF-ED-AIS/10910243_QRJnE#785925711_DbXyK-A-LB)

Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS on D3

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/Backlit-Smoke-Gack-1989/839851396_gt2hH-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#839851396_gt2hH-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/DSC93302/999710364_TwFRs-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#999710364_TwFRs-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/Young-Man-with-Baggage/841670660_Tr7fB-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#841670660_Tr7fB-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/Take-Our-Time-Take-Our-Fortune/839719821_3s8uj-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#839719821_3s8uj-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/Old-Man-with-Crutches-3/839566199_cpnR2-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#839566199_cpnR2-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/Hunters-Moon-photoshop/840912917_AVRRX-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#840912917_AVRRX-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/Native-Woman-Through-Branches/841430329_HFb3W-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Work/11862178_etGoA#841430329_HFb3W-A-LB)

Some of my early work with the Nikkor 300 2.8 IF-ED AIS and F2AS

There are moments that can only be captured with a telephoto.

[intense]

I use my telephoto lens (80-300mm equivalent) for street shooting also. It is priceless for portraits, because when shooting you can be far away from your subjects and you are not bothering them.

[Thebes]

I normally don't shoot stealth but I have a couple techniques for when I do.

If I am not otherwise shooting I will normally use my Dslr and a manual focus lens. I like my old manual Nikon lenses for this, they have distance markings and so are pretty easy to zone focus at the hip. I then shoot from the hip with the camera on my strap- it looks like I am fiddling with a camera I am not shooting. About 1/4 of the shots turn out well, presuming I am using a fairly wide aperture (f2 to f5.6). I can check results and it still looks like I am fiddling with my gizmo and not shooting. I hold it like its a box, I think of it that way, the plane of the film and the bottom edge and their orientation to the horizon. With a dslr I can take a lot of exposures so this works out great. I commonly use this technique if I am shooting at a gallery opening or something like that, which I am sometimes asked to do.

The other time I shoot "stealth" is if I have a small rf and my "real" camera at a photoshoot. I shoot a lot of fetish stuff for my wife and the company she works with and I like to get candids. I find that no one pays jack - attention to a small chrome and leather rangefinder most of the time. They instantly pose for a slr or even a pocket digicam, but they pretty much ignore the rangefinder- it probably helps that I use a 7sii for this and its really really quiet. I can get a true candid, without the subject noticing, most of the time. Sometimes I shoot from the hip with this one too, mostly in bars and such though where I use tables and such for stealth support in low light.

Speeds- I can shoot my aps-c dslr from the hip at 1/30th with a 50mm prime and 1/15th with a 35mm. It pulling on the strap and being held in both hands helps vs having it up to my face. The 7sii I have some nice hip shots on the strap at 1/15th and I've used bulb with it resting on tables and such for exposures over a second.

[Neare]

The 300mm f2 looks ... :D

[israel_alanis]

I found Cartier Bresson video, these are the links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqsOYsZlPX4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjjGiBUaf4s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnunLXYTzyQ&feature=related

Regards.

[tanel]

What camera you use and when and how you pull out the camera doesn't matter as much as what happens just moments before and moments after the shot.
People around here are not that used to street photographers and I can't really say I know many people who do shoot street that much.
So, observing when it's right to make eye contact and how to act after the shot makes all the difference.

[Lilserenity]

-Second method is use my TLR's in which case no special technique is needed since everyone assumes you are some sap fiddling with a dumb old antique.

That sounds about right, you can do all sorts with a TLR...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4491236592_deba60a615_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilserenity/4491236592/)Bile Air (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilserenity/4491236592/) by Vicky Lamburn (http://www.flickr.com/people/lilserenity/), on Flickr

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1414/4730520977_f9baced580_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilserenity/4730520977/)I'll fetch the suitcase from the van (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilserenity/4730520977/) by Vicky Lamburn (http://www.flickr.com/people/lilserenity/), on Flickr

It's surprisingly a good discrete way to take pics is a TLR!

Vicky

[Arjay]

Great photos Gregory!

The thing about using telephoto's for street shooting is you have to be looking ahead and be aware that swinging a large lens up from your side can draw unwanted attention from your subject. So I try to make my motions smooth and measured.

I think this also applies to shorter senses. It occured to me in the recent days while shooting on the Oktoberfest that any sudden movement I make is actually drawing my subjects' attention.

When I watched Gary Winogrand taking street pictures (great video & link btw), I saw he is constantly keeping his camera near to his face, so he can pull it up to his eyes covering just a small distance in a clearly unhurried move, definitely not jerking it up all of a sudden.

I'll have to explore that point some more ...

[surfer dude]

Israel, thank you very much for the links to the HCB documentaries - they are very instructive!

[Nikkor AIS]

Thanks Arjay. I really appreciate it.

[ederek]

on Pre-Focusing for static subjects (relative to shooter):
1) Imagine a sphere, with the camera at the center and the subject distance determining the radius.
2) Identify another object that sits on the imaginary sphere surface (the same distance away as the subject).
3) Bring rangefinder (or other camera having focus-lock) to eye and focus on the alternate object
4) Bring rangefinder to eye, compose with final subject and press shutter (<1 second). OR, can also point camera and frame without using viewfinder for the shot. Self timer can also be used instead of directly pressing shutter.

This allows fairly accurate pre-focusing without pointing the camera in the subjects' direction until the final moment the shot is taken.

When determining exposure, use a similar method but point to an area with similar lighting as subject, versus distance.

Done in the fiddling style of GW, it can be very effective without being 'stealthy' and hiding.

[maenju]

thanks for the thread -- as a newbie RF guy interested in shooting on the streets more often, it has been very informative indeed.

the first and so far only time I used my RF for street shooting I was following the "being stealthy by not being stealthy approach" -- since being stealthy as a tall white guy in Manila is impossible anyway ;) so of course I was being noticed, and I actually made a lot of eye contact, smiling and saying Hi occasionally, and I found that no one really objected to my photo taking...
I found zone focusing to be very effective and easy to learn, though I still need to get a grip for the right distances, f-stops and exposure times. anyway, a few first attempts...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5047553653_675f85e395.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/manueld/5047553653/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5048167002_b3eb2399d9.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/manueld/5048167002/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/5047568945_036f48de53.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/manueld/5047568945/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/5047489857_67d0864569.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/manueld/5047489857/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/5047472295_1f72e739a6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/manueld/5047472295/)

[yanidel]

Shooting from the hip is giving up the balance between content and composition. It just leads to plain bad pictures in my opinion, unless you get very lucky.

[dansanphoto]

Well, I have sometimes shot 'from the hip' or a bit above after calculating aperture, lens, etc. I have come up with very interesting shots, although is always not as precise as if I am looking through the viewfinder.

Here is a photo I keep among my favorites. Shot with my FM2 and 20mm. (I'm even holding a bag on the left and you can see the lens).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dansanphoto/5012624956/in/set-72157624881420655/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dansanphoto/5012624956/in/set-72157624881420655/

Shooting from the hip is giving up the balance between content and composition. It just leads to plain bad pictures in my opinion, unless you get very lucky.

[Nikkor AIS]

Very nice shots, Vicky. I've really been missing my Rollei twins quite a lot these days. I agree that looking down into the Rollei really disarms subjects on the street.

Maenju, excellent first efforts. You really nailed the focus and composition with your interesting subjects. You're going to be great with the rangefinder -- keep going.

Dansan, I really like that shot. Looking forward to seeing more of your work.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/95200022/1039559140_s4dvA-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1039559140_s4dvA-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/93710012/1039613039_HuFFw-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1039613039_HuFFw-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/95250023/1039587345_KY4FC-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1039587345_KY4FC-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/95250005/1039595127_pvUFV-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1039595127_pvUFV-A-LB)


http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/95250012/1039550651_ibDhN-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Fall-2010/13962306_BTtz3#1039550651_ibDhN-A-LB)


Summilux 35 1.4/50 1.0 Noctilux on Leica MP/M7 on 160 ASA film.

[dansanphoto]

Thanks Nikkor AIS! I wiil be soon shooting with a new M9.

[Arjay]

Shooting from the hip is giving up the balance between content and composition. It just leads to plain bad pictures in my opinion, unless you get very lucky.
I agree with you that it's very difficult to visualize camera FOV if you're literally holding the camera at the hip. However, the closer the camera is to your face, the easier it gets.

I found using the method I described (holding the camera just below my chin, looking sideways), it's fairly easy after just a little practice. Of course it helps to get really close, because the difference between what you see and what your camera will be capturing is not that great.

[dmr]

Do you shoot "from the hip" (even if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?

More like waist height, arm at about a 90 degree angle, that's more comfortable for me.

How do you hold your camera (if you don't hold your camera at hip height)?

When I don't want it to be obvious that I'm taking a photo, I'll hold the camera with one hand, usually the right, and guess on angle and level. See example below.

How do you make sure you have a good camera-to-eye coordination if you're not using the viewfinder?

I don't. :) It's a guess. :)

What are your recommendation for a rule for the longest viable shutter speed (considering how you hold your camera)?

I'm sure I shot the below example at 1/30 or 1/60. It depends. I would use a faster shutter speed in the day.

What camera do you use (RF or SLR)?

RF or P&S. I would never use a SLR for discreet shooting. (>>>KA-WACK!<<<)

Zone focus or autofocus?

Zone focus (guess focus) on the RF, auto on the P&S as there's really no choice.

On the example below I saw an officer questioning the driver of a car with the front end jacked up high, and I thought it might be an interesting shot. (Actually so-so, but it's when I did not want to be obvious.)

I guessed on the focus, held the camera at waist height, turned sideways and pretended to be paying attention to something else, and took the shot.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=81922&stc=1&d=1286977551

[israel_alanis]

Here is a photo I keep among my favorites. Shot with my FM2 and 20mm. (I'm even holding a bag on the left and you can see the lens).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dansanphoto/5012624956/in/set-72157624881420655/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dansanphoto/5012624956/in/set-72157624881420655/

It is a great shot indeed Dan.

About hip I hold my camera up to my stomach or my shoulder to move a little up, left or right my hand (no hip style indeed), with zone focus and with wide lens is rare you loose your shot, but of course, nothing as view trough viewfinder.

I have luck to hip some shots for example.
This shot was side
http://www.aalanis.com/01pic.jpg
this one over the shoulder to my back
http://www.aalanis.com/02pic.jpg
and this was over head to back
http://www.aalanis.com/03pic.jpg

These are how I hold my camera for each one respectively.
http://www.aalanis.com/styles.jpg

I do not trying to say these are the best shots, just to show how it can gives centered, focus and nice composition.

Regards.

[dantes]

I found Cartier Bresson video, these are the links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqsOYsZlPX4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjjGiBUaf4s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnunLXYTzyQ&feature=related

Regards.

This video is amazing. Though I wish there was an English subtitle version somewhere.

The glimpses of HCG taking street photos with a 35mm were great. Seems he is great at composing the image without the camera - and then quickly looks through the viewfinder and snaps a photo within seconds.

[ebino]

In that Video you never see his face properly. That's how serious he was about his privacy and anonymity.

[rbsinto]

When I'm out on the street, I'm schlepping three cameras when I'm going SLR or four when I'm in a rangefinder frame of mind. I'm always wearing a vest so there is really nothing stealthy about me. I'm big as life and ugly as sin.
I shoot from eyelevel looking through the view finder, or from the chest, or the waist, at arms length with the camera down low or above my head, all depending on the circumstances and whether I need not to appear to be taking a shot or not.
Using hyper focus, and wide lenses of course works best for the "shooting from the hip".
From the chest:

http://www.photochimps.com/pp/data/orig/500/The_puppeteer-Kensington_2008-600.jpg

http://www.photochimps.com/pp/data/orig/500/The_beggar_on_Spadina-600.jpg

http://www.photochimps.com/pp/data/orig/500/Keeping_in_touch_on_Queen-800.jpg

from down low at arms length:

http://www.photochimps.com/pp/data/orig/500/Mark_the_Musician_on_Spadina_modified-800.jpg

http://www.photochimps.com/pp/data/orig/500/The_Red_Mitten-700.jpg

from above my head at arms length:

http://www.photochimps.com/pp/data/orig/500/Saturday_shopping_on_Spadina-700.jpg

[Nikkor AIS]

Nice shooting, Rbisnto.

Like me, you're too big to hide ;). Thanks for showing some excellent examples of your work.