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cny3123
09-21-2010, 14:40
Sooo… about that X100… I want it :p

tapesonthefloor
09-21-2010, 14:41
Sooo… about that X100… I want it :p

I think I might want it, too. :D

See... this is nice.

doolittle
09-21-2010, 14:43
Wow! ... an interesting news transformed in just 2 days in such a boring thread ... :D :D :D

:) was thinking the same.
Woody Allen's Second Law of Thermodynamics springs to mind.

Anyway, it's just a camera, which won't be available for 6 months or so. Move along folks, move along. Nothing to see here :D

tapesonthefloor
09-21-2010, 14:47
Since this is a camera that is valiantly attempting to bring the viewfinder back into the photographic mainstream, I have a quick aside: does anyone here actually like composing at arm's length using a screen? I mean, is there anybody here who prefers it to a viewfinder?

Ezzie
09-21-2010, 14:49
No, hate it. Can't stand VF-less cameras.

dazedgonebye
09-21-2010, 14:51
Since this is a camera that is valiantly attempting to bring the viewfinder back into the photographic mainstream, I have a quick aside: does anyone here actually like composing at arm's length using a screen? I mean, is there anybody here who prefers it to a viewfinder?

HATE using the screen in the back...just hate it.

Ezzie
09-21-2010, 14:53
6 months is ample time, I hope, to convince the wife she wants one to evolve her knowledge of the art of photography. Sounds like a good strategy to me.

v_roma
09-21-2010, 14:53
Same here. VF is key.

I really just logged on to say that this seems to be the digital camera I've been waiting for. It's like they asked me what I wanted in a camera and then went to work making it happen :D I'm going to try not to get too excited until more information comes out (maybe too late about the whole getting excited thing). The shutter lag could be atrocious, I guess, which is one of the few things that would turn me off this camera but it's also not very likely. Anyway, 6 months away is not such a bad thing. Gives me time to save up.

Paul T.
09-21-2010, 14:56
It's intirguing in a way that this has taken so long - the G9/10/11 gained a lot of sales on the basis of a (by traditional standards, lousy) optical viewfinder. I don't quite see why no one has done this before - altho I'm glad to see that Fuji have reworked this old concept. The Hexar's shrinking and parallax-corrected framelines were terrific, but to augment those with digital information is a terrific idea.

coelacanth
09-21-2010, 14:56
Another huge preference on eye-level VF. The reason why I finally parted with E-PL1 was the lack viewfinder without using that gigantic external EVF.

I really hope this E/OVF thing takes off. I'd love to see VF in more large sensor compacts.

jsrockit
09-21-2010, 14:59
Since this is a camera that is valiantly attempting to bring the viewfinder back into the photographic mainstream, I have a quick aside: does anyone here actually like composing at arm's length using a screen? I mean, is there anybody here who prefers it to a viewfinder?

I prefer it to an SLR, but not to a rangefinder. That said, I don't use the LCD at arm's length like a zombie... I use it about 5-7 inches from my face.

andersju
09-21-2010, 14:59
Since this is a camera that is valiantly attempting to bring the viewfinder back into the photographic mainstream, I have a quick aside: does anyone here actually like composing at arm's length using a screen? I mean, is there anybody here who prefers it to a viewfinder?
Some do. Mitch Alland comes to mind. He's been using Ricoh GRD cameras for a long time; see this thread (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81612) and scroll down to "LCD versus viewfinder" for his take on it.

ferider
09-21-2010, 15:02
It's intirguing in a way that this has taken so long - the G9/10/11 gained a lot of sales on the basis of a (by traditional standards, lousy) optical viewfinder. I don't quite see why no one has done this before - altho I'm glad to see that Fuji have reworked this old concept. The Hexar's shrinking and parallax-corrected framelines were terrific, but to augment those with digital information is a terrific idea.

Agree, Paul; the Fuji's new viewfinder is the biggest deal. Already in early 2008 we were discussing the possibility, in connection to rumours about a new Nikon camera (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55178, posts 253/254).

It's about time. Hopefully it will lead the way to the development of other cameras with similar finder, full frame sensor, etc.

Brian Sweeney
09-21-2010, 15:06
This camera strikes me as being useful at a Wedding or other engagements that a Fast 35mm lens would go. The Nikkor 35/2 was fixed on the Nikons of a lot of Pro Photographers doing Weddings when the Nikon F and F2 were new. A number of Pro's that I knew "back in the Day" would keep a fixed-lens 35 for low-light work. Konica S2 comes to mind.

So, I'm thinking of this camera as a Konica S2. The Fuji 35ML was not as popular.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=1062

Are those sunglasses back in style...

cny3123
09-21-2010, 15:19
I personally much prefer a viewfinder to using a screen. When I was working at a camera store, every time I picked up either the NEX's or µ4/3 cameras without viewfinders, without fail I would bring it up to eye level and try and take a picture.

Paul T.
09-21-2010, 15:27
Wow, the S2 had shrinking, parallax-corrected frames? Hilarious, really, when you look at current digital rangefinders...

Jani_from_Finland
09-21-2010, 15:30
Are there any hints of the possible price tag for the x100?

Brian Sweeney
09-21-2010, 15:30
The Konica and my Polaroid 180 with the Zeiss viewfinder had compensating lines.

That Zeiss finder on the high end Polaroids was nice.

According to some sources, the camera is aimed at the $1000 mark. I find that amazing, considering what a Nikon 35Ti and Leica Minilux sold for a few years ago. This lens looks like it will be tack sharp, and is an F2.

Paul T.
09-21-2010, 15:31
Are there any hints of the possible price tag for the x100?
$1000, or circa €1000 if you're subject to the dreaded VAT.

benlees
09-21-2010, 15:36
The ep-2 with the 17mm and EVF is $1149 where I live so if this new Fuji is about the same price it will definitely muddy the waters.

I definitely prefer the viewfinder in the camera but being left eyed I find my slightly large, and occasionally greasy, nose smears the screen...

such is the way it goes!

jsrockit
09-21-2010, 15:37
http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=1062

Are those sunglasses back in style...

No Pro would be caught dead wearing those sunglasses...

Frank Petronio
09-21-2010, 15:40
No pro would be caught dead.

Most have to keep working through retirement and eventual death.

malland
09-21-2010, 15:41
Some do. Mitch Alland comes to mind. He's been using Ricoh GRD cameras for a long time; see this thread (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81612) and scroll down to "LCD versus viewfinder" for his take on it.Hej, Anders!

The key aspect for me of using the LCD is, as I wrote in the thread you linked:

Indeed, I have Zeiss 28mm and 21mm optical finders that probably are the best ones around and don't use them with the GRD3 because, for street photography, I prefer the "looser" and more fluid style that using the LCD encourages: what I do is to establish the edges of the frame by looking at the LCD and then look directly at the subject when pressing the shutter. Another advantage for street photography is that subjects often are not aware whether you're taking a picture or simply looking at the LCD. Many people like the "directness" of a viewfinder in a rangefinder camera, but looking directly at the subject, once having framed roughly with the LCD, in my feeling, is still more direct. I understand that many prefer using a viewfinder. All I can say is that this way of shooting transformed my street photography when, four years ago, I shifted from using the M6 to small-sensor cameras without viewfinders.

I should also state that framing with the excellent high resolution LCDs, that can be used even in bright sunlight, on cameras like the Ricoh GRD3 and the GXR/A13 allows, with experience, to judge exposure without having to look at the histogram. For this purpose I use manual (spot) exposure on these cameras, which on the latter cameras is implemented well: you press a button to "center the needle" to the the recommended exposure and then move the ADJ lever on the back of the camera to the left or right to decrease or increase the shutter speed until you have the look, that is, the exposure, that you want.

As for the X100 hybrid viewfinder, if well implemented, it could be a great step forward. If I had the X100, I might use it occasionaly particularly because of all the exposure data can be shown, but, for me, it would be a trade-off with the size of the camera — I might one that would be smaller than the X100, like the GXR with the forthcoming 28mm-e lens/sensor module. Also, I might miss judging the actual look of the exposure unless that would be visible as accurately as on the LCD by swtching to the EVF view.

I think that people who simply assume that framing with a viewfinder is better and, and don't try seriously to frame with the LCD are missing something.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Hysteria Book Project (http://www.flickr.com/photos/malland/sets/72157613189560804/show/)

Brian Sweeney
09-21-2010, 15:43
So next you are going to tell me the white shoes are out too.

And agree that the $1000 mark is going to sell a number of these cameras.

From the "inflation Calculator"

What cost $150 in 1970 would cost $819.59 in 2009.

So that $1000 mark is close to that Konica S2.

Jani_from_Finland
09-21-2010, 15:48
Is this camera really to get released in 2011 as Fuji says (maybe in the end of the year?) or to the xmas period 2010?

coelacanth
09-21-2010, 15:49
I don't know other people, but at $1000 mark and given specs, I can see BUNCH of RFF members falling for this like abandoning Titanic. I'll be one of them.

jsrockit
09-21-2010, 15:49
March 2011... I believe.

Jani_from_Finland
09-21-2010, 15:54
I think we'll see a different world of cameras during end of Dec 2010, the others will try to follow, i guess their qality and price wont match the x100.

ferider
09-21-2010, 16:00
I don't know other people, but at $1000 mark and given specs, I can see BUNCH of RFF members falling for this like abandoning Titanic. I'll be one of them.

Your kidding, Sug. All you need is some additional room in your back-pack, to carry it together with M2, Mamiya & OM1 (did I forget something ?). :)

PKR
09-21-2010, 16:01
The Konica and my Polaroid 180 with the Zeiss viewfinder had compensating lines.

That Zeiss finder on the high end Polaroids was nice.

According to some sources, the camera is aimed at the $1000 mark. I find that amazing, considering what a Nikon 35Ti and Leica Minilux sold for a few years ago. This lens looks like it will be tack sharp, and is an F2.

My Fuji GA series cameras had moving frame lines to compensate for parallax..
p.

mackigator
09-21-2010, 16:04
At the $1000 level or below, I'm on this one like white on rice.

coelacanth
09-21-2010, 16:05
Your kidding, Sug. All you need is some additional room in your back-pack, to carry it together with M2, Mamiya & OM1 (did I forget something ?). :)

Hehe, that's pretty much it. Well, IIIf & Elmar 50 would make a great combo with this cam. :D

febreeze-showered
09-21-2010, 16:12
Lol . . . I'm sorry, but at $1000, unless if the thing is DOA, you must be borderline ... or sucking too much you-know-what from someone that works at Leica to buy a X1 over this.

jsrockit
09-21-2010, 16:21
Lol . . . I'm sorry, but at $1000, unless if the thing is DOA, you must be borderline retarded or sucking too much you-know-what from someone that works at Leica to buy a X1 over this.

Even as a user and lover of the Leica X1, I still have to agree with you. I love the X1, but I have a feeling I'm going to love having one of these around as well.

jrv
09-21-2010, 16:23
Anyway, the consumer sensors are closing in on what is physically possible faster than many realise.
Another area where cheap consumer cameras are reaching limits is pixel density. I rarely see it mentioned, but pixels are already only a couple of times larger than the wavelength of deep red.

It will be a big deal when someone figures out how to replace the Bayer filter array with some other prism arrangement or such. Nikon's patent on a Bayer prism matrix isn't it (the patent is absurdly un-manufacturable but maybe someone will find a reasonable *compact* solution that can actually be fabricated).

Brian Sweeney
09-21-2010, 16:23
My Fuji GA series cameras had moving frame lines to compensate for parallax..
p.

Did it also compensate for Field-of-View at close distance? The Konica framelines moved to compensate for parallax, and changed size to compensate for distance. This is the "infamous" M8 frameline issue, the framelines are set for close-distance and do not show the entire frame as captured at distance. The 90mm framelines on my M8 are perfect for my Nikkor 105. So "I'm Okay" with it.

The Konica style framelines would have solved the problem.

Brian Sweeney
09-21-2010, 16:25
Hey Brian, thanks for posting the ad for the S2. It was my first pro camera. I was 14. :)


I went with the Minolta Hi-Matic 9, when I was 11. The lens on the HM-9 is as good as the S2. The meter is still accurate on my HM-9, bought 42 years ago.

bensyverson
09-21-2010, 16:49
Since the VF is hybrid, I would imagine that the framelines would both move for parallax and change size. It's just a software tweak at that point.

Japan---Exposures
09-21-2010, 17:15
It's a good camera for sure, but part why it is so "good" is because the industry spent 10 or more years destroying everything that's good about a non SLR type camera. The bar hangs pretty low by now and as we can see a good VF (concept) and a lens that's not f4.5 can get a lot of attention.

Perhaps in five years we will see someone "innovating" with manual focus?

As for timing, the Japanese release says spring 2011. Not Q1 or Q2. Often spring lasts until May, could be almost a year away depending where you are.

dazedgonebye
09-21-2010, 17:21
It's a good camera for sure, but part why it is so "good" is because the industry spent 10 or more years destroying everything that's good about a non SLR type camera. The bar hangs pretty low by now and as we can see a good VF (concept) and a lens that's not f4.5 can get a lot of attention.

Perhaps in five years we will see someone "innovating" with manual focus?

As for timing, the Japanese release says spring 2011. Not Q1 or Q2. Often spring lasts until May, could be almost a year away depending where you are.

It is strange that it has taken so long for someone to build a camera pretty much anyone here could have asked for so long ago.

Japan---Exposures
09-21-2010, 17:25
It is strange that it has taken so long for someone to build a camera pretty much anyone here could have asked for so long ago.

Do you really think RFF is a fair representation of the consumer digital compact camera market?

Most people don't care, but now that the market gets saturated of course they are looking at niches.

remegius
09-21-2010, 17:31
Do you really think RFF is a fair representation of the consumer digital compact camera market?

Most people don't care, but now that the market gets saturated of course they are looking at niches.

Good point. I wonder when we will begin to hear from the other players?

Cheers...

Rem

Frankie
09-21-2010, 17:36
So, back to the X100:

MSRP: $1000, announced at Fuji press conference [Source: BJP video]

Features :

Favorite functions assignable (?): to Fn button [left of shutter release]
Manual aperture selection: f2~16 + A
Manual shutter speed selection: B~1/4000 + A
Manual MF, AF-S, AF-C selection [body left edge]
Manual AFL/AEL [back/right]
Manual exposure compensation: +/- 2-stops in 1/3 stop
E/OVF [0.5X]: 90% frameline coverage projected in OVF and 100% in EVF mode
Displayable dataset: so far seen include WB, exp#, L/F (?), ISO, Shutter speed, f-stop, histogram, exposure compensation, DoF/distance scale (also displayable in LCD) [No doubt user selectable.]
DISP/BACK button toggles dataset display/none in OVF
DoF range coupled with aperture selected
23mm f2.0 lens for APSC [=35mm; if digitally cropped to 6Mp = 46mm]
ISO 200 to 6400 [+/-1 stop boost to ISO 100~12,800 possible]
AF + manual focusing [via lens focusing ring]
Standard tripod socket in bottom centre
HDMI and mini USB port access door [body right]; battery/SD card hatch [bottom/right]
Magnesium body
"Convenient command lever" [function unknown] at right thumb position
Buttons for direct WB and RAW access
Standard threaded cable release in shutter button
Filter size: 46mm [measured, to be confirmed]
Flange to sensor distance: 26mm [measured, to be confirmed]$1000 is cheap, perhaps too cheap... Journalists had described the camera as [I]not light, and solid as a stone.

Had this camera been available when I purchased the ZI+CV40/1.4 a couple of years ago, Fuji wins...my one camera/lens travel outfit.

Being digital, it would have fully fulfilled my shoot freely desire, no film/processing recurring costs and airport worries...and thus no incentive for looking into retrofitting the M.

The dM-retrofit project is hereby pronounced dead...and goodbye to all my critics.

My M2, M6, R-D1, ZI will soon be on eBay; as would the CV 25/4, 40/1.4, 50/2.5 and M-Rokkor 90/4...also most of my Nikon family members [5 of the 8 cameras and 11 of the 14 lenses].

gavinlg
09-21-2010, 17:43
If it truly does end up being $1000 I'll eat my hat... And I will definitely buy one.

dazedgonebye
09-21-2010, 17:43
Do you really think RFF is a fair representation of the consumer digital compact camera market?

Most people don't care, but now that the market gets saturated of course they are looking at niches.

I think that's partially it, but also, I think they just kinda went where the technology and competition took them.
m4/3rds gave rise to EVIL cameras and they started garnering market share. The idea of a small camera that dispensed with the big hump and mirror has its appeal (as all of us here already knew). The someone realized, "hey wouldn't it be cool if we could do without that expensive and less than satisfactory EVF? What the heck, how about an OVF?"
And so it's all evolved around to where we have all been sitting for years.

ywenz
09-21-2010, 17:45
Lol . . . I'm sorry, but at $1000, unless if the thing is DOA, you must be borderline ... or sucking too much you-know-what from someone that works at Leica to buy a X1 over this.

Ah but you've forgotten the brand cache that comes with that little red dot. That's worth some dough right there

aizan
09-21-2010, 18:09
http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=119&pictureid=1062

Are those sunglasses back in style...

wayfarers? actually, yes! google it up and be amazed.

BillBingham2
09-21-2010, 18:14
Fuji has bucked many trends and brought out some very good cameras that often fly smack in the face of what CanonNikonSony does. Some really really good cameras that sell well enough for more interesting niche cameras to come out. This one I believe will hit multiple niches and even at $1K USD will sell pretty well. (Translation add me to the list of folks who are saving up for one)

I like to have the LCD as well as a good bright line finder and the hybrid approach sounds very interesting. I cut my digital teeth on Nikon 900 and 950 which had both. It was very handy to have the LCD part of the body to pivot so I could shoot like it was a TLR at waste level or over my head.

When doing macro shots there is nothing that I have ever used or seen that beats an LCD. Street stuff I like the LCD though I often shoot with it off to have "Plausible Deniability that the camera is on at all".

I’m hoping that it will accept AA or AAA batteries as an emergency alternative to NiMH that she comes with. Wonder what size filter she takes? 52mm perhaps?

B2 (;->

Japan---Exposures
09-21-2010, 18:16
For every RF diehard on RFF, there are many, many more that aren't.

You mean the diehards falling for what isn't even an RF (but looks like one)? :angel:

PKR
09-21-2010, 18:25
Did it also compensate for Field-of-View at close distance? The Konica framelines moved to compensate for parallax, and changed size to compensate for distance. This is the "infamous" M8 frameline issue, the framelines are set for close-distance and do not show the entire frame as captured at distance. The 90mm framelines on my M8 are perfect for my Nikkor 105. So "I'm Okay" with it.

The Konica style framelines would have solved the problem.

It was a a GA 690?

I'm trying to remember.. it was a 6x4.5 and had a 60mm lens. The frame lines would move as the focus moved. I can't remember the closest fp, maybe a meter. so from a meter to infinity.. you could see the frame lines adjust in the finder.

alien8
09-21-2010, 19:23
One thing this thread is...even without all the off-topic stuff....much, much longer than the M9 announcement threads.
It may have already been said, but I suspect that the reason for that is that this camera might actually be within the reach of far more of the members here. When the M9 came out I thought it was somewhat interesting, but I never seriously thought about owning own. This camera is another matter.

amateriat
09-21-2010, 19:57
Taking a real, close look at this very nice Fuji makes me wonder: whatever became of Konica's top-notch tech people...?

If this outfit got hold of any of them, I'd advise y'all to buckle up, because this might indicate the beginning of a wild and wonderful ride.

Companies may come and go, but good ideas sometimes still rise to the surface. (In this case, sometimes more than once.)


- Barrett

semilog
09-21-2010, 19:58
if you still insist that the x100 is not a retro styled camera, i don't have much else to say!

That "retro" look is also a highly-refined and mature set of interfaces that in many respects have never been improved on. Many of us are excted not because it recalls the past in general, but because it implements specific excellent design themes that may have been supplanted but perhaps have not really been improved on.

Think of a Gibson Les Paul, a Fender Stratocaster, a Martin D18, or for that matter a Yamaha concert grand piano.

There are newer designs for guitars and keyboard instuments, and they are certainly different, but they are not for all purposes better.

Ah. here's the article I was looking for (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.01/eno.html).

aizan
09-21-2010, 20:12
the dials are great (though it'll take a while to get used to the direction they turn) and the viewfinder is unbelievably awesome. i'm not talking about the interface (though i'm keeping an eye on whether you can cycle through preset "snap" focusing distances like ricoh).

CameraQuest
09-21-2010, 20:17
Wow.
I don't think any other RFF thread has made it to 900 posts so quickly

Stephen

semilog
09-21-2010, 20:23
the dials are great (though it'll take a while to get used to the direction they turn) and the viewfinder is unbelievably awesome. i'm not talking about the interface (though i'm keeping an eye on whether you can cycle through preset "snap" focusing distances like ricoh).

The knobs ARE the interface. The menu system is also part of the interface, but on a camera like this you should be able to set it up and then largely stay out of the menus. That is the WHOLE POINT of the knobs.

tlitody
09-21-2010, 20:39
Wow.
I don't think any other RFF thread has made it to 900 posts so quickly

Stephen

Fuji are going to set the price based on how many posts there are in this thread. Since everyone is going nuts for it, the price will be higher. You better stop posting before a 1000. Its a viral auction:D

amateriat
09-21-2010, 20:47
Wow.
I don't think any other RFF thread has made it to 900 posts so quickly

Stephen
Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we've given Fuji our answer.

Bring on the X100!


- Barrett

Al Patterson
09-21-2010, 20:53
For comparison, go look at www.dpreview.com to see all the folks who just don't GET a tool like this.

Now, I'm not sure I'd buy one myself, but I get why street shooters who can't or won't pony up the bucks for an M9 would go for it.

I'd love to borrow one for a weekend at some future date though.

semilog
09-21-2010, 21:01
Bingo...I wouldn't discuss the M9 because it is completely out of my reach.

If I *really* wanted an M9 I'd find a way to afford it. But I simply can't imagine a situation where a camera body for pictorial photography would be worth a lot more than $5k to me. And I say that as someone who willingly has repeatedly carved $30k+ out of a very tight research lab budget to purchase scientific CCD cameras.

But $1k for this camera, if it's remotely as capable as promised -- that, I'll do in a heartbeat. When I was in high school I paid for my first Nikon and lenses with a paper route. Maybe I'll have to do that again...

Ezzie
09-21-2010, 21:26
Oh, I'll find a way to pay for it. However, justifying the need for it vs the wife will take some doing. She's not overly interested in the art. But where there's a will, there's a way.

What I think this thread demonstrates is that we indeed prefer the RF experience, and many have not yet found the ideal digital supplement to their beloved film RF camera. Admittedly this is not an RF camera as such, but looks like it will handle like one, it seems to be the first real option for many. The digtial M's being too expensive for many, and not without their faults. The R-D1 being too quirky for most.

semilog
09-21-2010, 21:30
For comparison, go look at www.dpreview.com to see all the folks who just don't GET a tool like this.

It's the Internet Disease: "What's good for me is good for thee."

Well, it's not, and you (the DP Review commentors, not you, Al) are imbeciles.

Ezzie
09-21-2010, 21:39
The DpReview crew are quite good IMO. However the forum is populated by another breed altogether.

semilog
09-21-2010, 21:41
So how many posts would the thread have if it were actually a 12mp fixed lens digital with a true rangefinder for $1k? :)

I don't actually care even slightly if it's a "true" rangefinder. That is not the end-all and be-all. What I am interested in is good cameras that are well-suited for the kind of pictures that I want to take. The Leica M is one. The Nikon FE2 is another, and the Mamiya 6 is yet another.

This little Fuji apparently reflects design choices that might put it in that group. On the other hand, in its actual implementation it might have limitations that preclude that. But I can certainly understand why people are excited. It's not like any digital that's been made before, and it incorporates at least some of the properties that I really care for, which other digitals have lacked.

That is cause for hope, and perhaps for celebration.

semilog
09-21-2010, 21:44
The DpReview crew are quite good IMO. However the forum is populated by another breed altogether.

Some call them trolls.

I think that that is too kind.

JonasYip
09-21-2010, 21:49
Since this is a camera that is valiantly attempting to bring the viewfinder back into the photographic mainstream, I have a quick aside: does anyone here actually like composing at arm's length using a screen? I mean, is there anybody here who prefers it to a viewfinder?

I don't mind using the LCD, much as I never minded looking down into a TLR or Hassy or RZ or at the back of a view camera. That said, if there's a viewfinder I'll use that over the LCD.

Plus there are times when using the screen is great, like holding the camera up high, or down low, or when shooting discreetly.

I do get confused sometimes though, and I'll pick up my FM2n and stare at the back for a bit, or stick my EP1 up to my face and see nothing...

Ezzie
09-21-2010, 21:57
........

I do get confused sometimes though, and I'll pick up my FM2n and stare at the back for a bit, or stick my EP1 up to my face and see nothing...

Funny, and from what I've seen not uncommon.

akptc
09-21-2010, 21:59
... or stick my EP1 up to my face and see nothing... :o:D that happens to me often :D:o

amateriat
09-21-2010, 22:14
You mean the diehards falling for what isn't even an RF (but looks like one)? :angel:
The Hexar Autofocus wasn't a "true" rangefinder either. I didn't care: I owned one for five years, took tons of pictures with it, and only (reluctantly) gave it up for help finance one of two Hexar RFs (yes, a "proper" RF, if you will).

Indeed, I'll welcome the X100 with open arms, provided the production product lives up to at least most of the hype generated by the example Fuji is showing to us right now. I doubt many here are "falling" for some kind of ruse. I daresay most of us know what we're being offered here, and like it enough to make our opinions known. We may be a tad crazy, but we're not stupid.


- Barrett

Paul T.
09-21-2010, 22:15
Did anyone else notice they have a level in the finder?

Perhaps it's just me, but I seem to take more slightly wonky shots with the GF1 than with any other camera.

aizan
09-21-2010, 22:21
The knobs ARE the interface. The menu system is also part of the interface, but on a camera like this you should be able to set it up and then largely stay out of the menus. That is the WHOLE POINT of the knobs.

didn't i just say that i was not talking about the interface, i.e. the knobs, the viewfinder, or whatever?

semilog
09-21-2010, 22:26
didn't i just say that i was not talking about the interface, i.e. the knobs, the viewfinder, or whatever?

Apologies if I misread.

Paul T.
09-21-2010, 22:30
The Hexar Autofocus wasn't a "true" rangefinder either. I didn't care: I owned one for five years, took tons of pictures with it, and only (reluctantly) gave it up for help finance one of two Hexar RFs (yes, a "proper" RF, if you will).

Indeed, I'll welcome the X100 with open arms, provided the production product lives up to at least most of the hype

The Hexar AF - which was very much a boutique product rather than mass market - was launched into a crowded field; there were plenty of autofocus cameras with optical finders; the Hexar was arguably the first to combine this with a truly high quality, fast lens and fast autofocus (and silent mode), but it was up against products from Contax, Nikon, Olympus, and others.

The intriguing aspect of the X100 is that Fuji are launching into what is not a crowded market. There's no one else there. It might be a niche product, but they will have all of that niche, and going by the example of EVIL cameras, no-one else will launch into that niche for a year or so.

Frank Petronio
09-21-2010, 22:34
It's still baffling that none of the manufacturers didn't do something like this years ago? It's not like thousands of avid photographers weren't talking about their desire for such a camera online, right in plain sight.

Instead you get that Nikon copy of a Canon G9 or whatever that was... or another DSLR w high quality video (but unsuitable focusing, viewing, sound, etc.)

How deaf can they be that they wouldn't produce a professional digital video camera that used the DSLR sensors and lenses? Instead people are taking their still cameras and grafting viewfinders and other video refinements onto them in a home-brew, Duct taped fashion. And they been doing it like that for over two years now!

Look at the Panasonic G1... Camera of the Year and all that.... yet they actually made the follow-up models worse!

amateriat
09-21-2010, 23:18
It's still baffling that none of the manufacturers didn't do something like this years ago? It's not like thousands of avid photographers weren't talking about their desire for such a camera online, right in plain sight.

Instead you get that Nikon copy of a Canon G9 or whatever that was... or another DSLR w high quality video (but unsuitable focusing, viewing, sound, etc.)

How deaf can they be that they wouldn't produce a professional digital video camera that used the DSLR sensors and lenses? Instead people are taking their still cameras and grafting viewfinders and other video refinements onto them in a home-brew, Duct taped fashion. And they been doing it like that for over two years now!

Look at the Panasonic G1... Camera of the Year and all that.... yet they actually made the follow-up models worse!
Won't argue with you there...


The intriguing aspect of the X100 is that Fuji are launching into what is not a crowded market. There's no one else there. It might be a niche product, but they will have all of that niche, and going by the example of EVIL cameras, no-one else will launch into that niche for a year or so.
This is what will be fascinating to watch: I looked at Nikon's P7000 with a degree of interest, but also got a big dose of "Canon Gx wannabe" from its design. Better than the P6000? Maybe. What I really wanted? Hardly, but what choice was I given?

Now, there's a real choice. Fuji has long had a similar mojo to Konica in regard to ignoring what the "majors" were doing in the market, and going their own way, concentrating on MF where so many were catering to systems-based 35mm gear, then creating MF rangefinders when everyone else was doing nothing but SLRs (although they did eventually blow everyone's socks off in that arena as well). You might call it an asymmetrical approach to the market. The X100 appears to continue in that vein, and i predict Fuji will reap considerable rewards with it if they get things reasonably right. My finances are rather up in the air at the moment, but if I think I can swing it, this is the digital camera I'd like in my bag alongside my film burners (which I'm keeping).

Bring it, Fuji.


- Barrett

semilog
09-21-2010, 23:24
You might call it an asymmetrical approach to the market. The X100 appears to continue in that vein, and i predict Fuji will reap considerable rewards with it if they get things reasonably right. ...if I think I can swing it, this is the digital camera I'd like in my bag alongside my film burners (which I'm keeping).

+1 in a big way. Solid post.

Japan---Exposures
09-21-2010, 23:44
If if if… yes, the camera looks good as mockup and on spec sheet, but that's all we know up to now - still a thousand ways to screw it up on the way...

tom.w.bn
09-21-2010, 23:47
If if if… yes, the camera looks good as mockup and on spec sheet, but that's all we know up to now - still a thousand ways to screw it up on the way...

If it goes wrong then you are to blame because you spoke it out loud ;)

semilog
09-21-2010, 23:52
Hahaha. Asshats (http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10092126leicavlux2.asp).

noimmunity
09-21-2010, 23:54
Posts on this thread should be locked at 1000, in order to appease the price gods deliberating over the final price of this camera (credit card in hand waiting for pre-order).

tom.w.bn
09-21-2010, 23:59
Posts on this thread should be locked at 1000, in order to appease the price gods deliberating over the final price of this camera (credit card in hand waiting for pre-order).

When the price depends on the post count then let's stop now. 899 sounds even better.

Edit: Hey. Please don't delete posts. I have to adjust the number above every time :)

noimmunity
09-22-2010, 00:03
but it is hard to stop, isn't it?! :D

noimmunity
09-22-2010, 00:08
But seriously back OT, I think the sales could be unexpectedly brisk, as they were for the GRD series. I know lots of people in this part of the world who don't give a hoot about photographic gear, yet love to be seen carrying a small enthusiast's camera. The X100 has potential to tap into the market concerned about the image, including the image of the gear as well as the composition and the final IQ. Judging by the number of young people wearing fashionable T shirts with photos of classic film cameras on their shirts, this could well leave the niche status and make it into pop cult.

amateriat
09-22-2010, 00:08
If if if… yes, the camera looks good as mockup and on spec sheet, but that's all we know up to now - still a thousand ways to screw it up on the way...
Don't I know it! But, as a far more famous person than I'll ever be said: I've got this feeling...

Posts on this thread should be locked at 1000, in order to appease the price gods deliberating over the final price of this camera (credit card in hand waiting for pre-order).
I sort-of grok your paranoia here, Jon. But you have to think volume, man! What if we pushed this thing to 2000 posts?

Think big: this could be hipper than an M-whatever. Look at the cachet the Contax Gs have gotten from being included in fashion photo shoots for the likes of GQ and such. All we need is someone here who knows someone who knows someone who knows a fashion shooter or AD with Vogue or Glamour and thinks the model du jour would look really cool holding this jewel of a camera on the cover or in a feature spread or maybe a L'oreal ad campaign, and we're off to the races, understand?

Never mind. I just want the damn camera. Destiny can wait. ;)


- Barrett

Naumoski
09-22-2010, 00:14
The announced price on Photokina for x100 was 1000 dollars (tough not officialy confirmed and yet not final price), have someone already ordered the camera, or will order really quite soon?

noimmunity
09-22-2010, 00:21
Barrett, we must have been having the same thought at the same time, marvel of the net :cool:



Don't I know it! But, as a far more famous person than I'll ever be said: I've got this feeling...


I sort-of grok your paranoia here, Jon. But you have to think volume, man! What if we pushed this thing to 2000 posts?

Think big: this could be hipper than an M-whatever. Look at the cachet the Contax Gs have gotten from being included in fashion photo shoots for the likes of GQ and such. All we need is someone here who knows someone who knows someone who knows a fashion shooter or AD with Vogue or Glamour and thinks the model du jour would look really cool holding this jewel of a camera on the cover or in a feature spread or maybe a L'oreal ad campaign, and we're off to the races, understand?

Never mind. I just want the damn camera. Destiny can wait. ;)


- Barrett

amateriat
09-22-2010, 00:28
The announced price on Photokina for x100 was 1000 dollars (tough not officialy confirmed and yet not final price), have someone already ordered for the camera?
Highly doubt that any orders have been placed just yet, although I'm betting Fuji have had a ton of inquiries to that end. By this time, they must know they've got something akin to a tiger by the tail. I'm assuming the production status of the camera has now been greenlighted.

This is exactly the process Chevrolet went through when they presented the new Camaro as a show car: not everyone wanted one, but enough people went gaga over it that GM greenlighted production of a version that, for once, wasn't watered-down, and they're selling briskly enough to declare it a success. It didn't have to outsell Impalas or Malibus, just enough to make the process worthwhile. (Luckily for Fuji, they don't have the digicam equivalent of the Ford Mustang or Dodge Challenger to contend with...yet.)


- Barrett

Ronald_H
09-22-2010, 00:37
I want one. I think it's great and it LOOKS great. For 1000$ I'd buy one.

But, dare I day it, could Fuji go the extra mile and make this into a system camera, maybe in the next generation? It might be all the camera I'll ever need!

jrv
09-22-2010, 00:40
It's still baffling that none of the manufacturers didn't do something like this years ago?
Marketing managers are very risk adverse, just like most people.

They know that if they bring out an unusual product that fails they'll be fired. If they bring out a product just like the other successful products on the market they'll have something that people will buy, and often only a few minor improvements and a lot of advertising are needed to make the product a "success" and get the marketing manager a raise. This is a safe, low risk approach; stick to what someone else showed works and you'll be OK.

It's rare to find someone willing to stick his neck out and risk failure on a new product. One of the challenges of management is figuring out how to let people fail (but not too often!). Apple is a good example of a company that has figured this out (it helps that the CEO is heavily involved since he's not going to fire himself).

Fuji has been willing to do things differently in the past and not follow Canikon's endless me-too-ism. Even if this does turn to be flawed hopefully it will force some new thinking into the industry.

Ezzie
09-22-2010, 00:51
Look at it this way. Think of all the boring posts we will not be having as a result of it being fixed focus.
- which version of the summicron/lux is best?
- if I was to have only one Leica lens, which would that be?
- how to code this and that lens?
- which focal length is for me?
- show us your pre-asph pics
- etc etc

j j
09-22-2010, 00:51
It's still baffling that none of the manufacturers didn't do something like this years ago? It's not like thousands of avid photographers weren't talking about their desire for such a camera online, right in plain sight.

Instead you get that Nikon copy of a Canon G9 or whatever that was... or another DSLR w high quality video (but unsuitable focusing, viewing, sound, etc.)

How deaf can they be that they wouldn't produce a professional digital video camera that used the DSLR sensors and lenses? Instead people are taking their still cameras and grafting viewfinders and other video refinements onto them in a home-brew, Duct taped fashion. And they been doing it like that for over two years now!

Look at the Panasonic G1... Camera of the Year and all that.... yet they actually made the follow-up models worse!

I don't think they were deaf, but just couldn't hear for all the noise: there are more people who would buy a camera than there are photographers and our voice was drowned out. And previous attempts at a more refined approach (Contax, Digilux2, DP-1 & 2) failed to make a major impact with what is a very fussy group, so the success of micro4/3 surprised a few manufacturers.

Hopefully, more makers will realise that good sales for an unusual camera can approach, equal or even exceed those for yet another like-me compact or SLR. I would love to go into a shop and choose between digital equivalents to a Contax T3 and G2, Hexar, C/V RMs etc like we could with film cameras a few years ago. Similar niches must still exist and a maturing technology that enables a longer-lasting product may yet deliver the cameras for a more mature selection.

PKR
09-22-2010, 00:54
Taking a real, close look at this very nice Fuji makes me wonder: whatever became of Konica's top-notch tech people...?

If this outfit got hold of any of them, I'd advise y'all to buckle up, because this might indicate the beginning of a wild and wonderful ride.

Companies may come and go, but good ideas sometimes still rise to the surface. (In this case, sometimes more than once.)


- Barrett

It was Konica/Minolta at the end correct? And yes, it was a great design team. I still use a Minolta meter

Ezzie
09-22-2010, 01:04
Ninehundred

sevo
09-22-2010, 01:15
I don't think they were deaf, but just couldn't hear for all the noise: there are more people who would buy a camera than there are photographers and our voice was drowned out.

Why would they? We are not their market. It is questionable whether there are more than the two each Nikon and Canon DSLRs in the sub medium format market whose development and marketing are targeted at professionals.

PKR
09-22-2010, 01:38
Marketing managers are very risk adverse, just like most people.

They know that if they bring out an unusual product that fails they'll be fired. If they bring out a product just like the other successful products on the market they'll have something that people will buy, and often only a few minor improvements and a lot of advertising are needed to make the product a "success" and get the marketing manager a raise. This is a safe, low risk approach; stick to what someone else showed works and you'll be OK.

It's rare to find someone willing to stick his neck out and risk failure on a new product. One of the challenges of management is figuring out how to let people fail (but not too often!). Apple is a good example of a company that has figured this out (it helps that the CEO is heavily involved since he's not going to fire himself).

Fuji has been willing to do things differently in the past and not follow Canikon's endless me-too-ism. Even if this does turn to be flawed hopefully it will force some new thinking into the industry.

Also, it can be argued that Fujifilm is bigger than the other players in this business. Yes Nikon is a "Mitsubishi" company.. but still not as big as the whole of Fuji. If anyone can afford the risk, it's Fuji. And Fuji has a great track record of quality products. Fuji's large format lenses are some of the best ever. Their split sensor design, though not successful outside the pro market, was highly innovative. I think this is the beginning of a product line.. maybe a competitive one.

Ezzie
09-22-2010, 01:40
Remember that Fuji own Nikon

PKR
09-22-2010, 01:47
Remember that Fuji own Nikon

Nikon is owned by Mitsubishi. They, until several months ago had office space in the Fujifilm building. They moved to a new location. They are on friendly terms, but there is no "ownership" to my knowledge.

quote from wiki:
Founded in 25 July 1917[1] (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/#cite_note-Precise_date_founded.-0) as Nippon Kōgaku Kōgyō Kabushikigaisha (日本光学工業株式会社 "Japan Optical Industries Corporation"), the company was renamed Nikon Corporation, after its cameras, in 1988. Nikon is one of the companies of the Mitsubishi Group (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/wiki/Mitsubishi).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon

ChrisN
09-22-2010, 01:49
Since this is a camera that is valiantly attempting to bring the viewfinder back into the photographic mainstream, I have a quick aside: does anyone here actually like composing at arm's length using a screen? I mean, is there anybody here who prefers it to a viewfinder?

Yes - as long as the screen is at least 4x5 (inches) in size, the image is inverted, and the camera is mounted on a solid tripod! :D

ChrisN
09-22-2010, 01:58
Did it also compensate for Field-of-View at close distance? The Konica framelines moved to compensate for parallax, and changed size to compensate for distance. This is the "infamous" M8 frameline issue, the framelines are set for close-distance and do not show the entire frame as captured at distance. The 90mm framelines on my M8 are perfect for my Nikkor 105. So "I'm Okay" with it.

The Konica style framelines would have solved the problem.

Hi Brian - I think we're talking about the GA645 here? Just checked mine, and yes, the framelines do change size when focused at different distances. I really like the GA645 - not an everyday camera but a great one to grab when I want something easy to shoot with (or let another person shoot with) that will still return outstanding image quality. I'm hoping for the same characteristics in the X-100. :)

PKR
09-22-2010, 02:43
Hi Brian - I think we're talking about the GA645 here? Just checked mine, and yes, the framelines do change size when focused at different distances. I really like the GA645 - not an everyday camera but a great one to grab when I want something easy to shoot with (or let another person shoot with) that will still return outstanding image quality. I'm hoping for the same characteristics in the X-100. :)


Hi Brian and Chris; Yes, that sounds correct. It's been some years since I had the cameras. As I recall there were 60mm, 45mm and zoom lens models. There may have been one more in the series. They were great cameras.

Spyro
09-22-2010, 02:58
... It's an amateur camera...

Cheers,

Juan

Aaahh good, good, thats a good thing. Amateurs take good photos.

amateur "lover of", from Latin amatorem "lover"
amateurism elevates things done with self-interest or for their own intrinsic value above those done for pay.

I've seen professionals who are amateurs, they take good photos too.

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 03:49
You mean the diehards falling for what isn't even an RF (but looks like one)? :angel:

It will most likely have some sort of electronic rangefinder like the contax G I would think... and to SLR haters, that is enough.

Al Patterson
09-22-2010, 04:05
It's the Internet Disease: "What's good for me is good for thee."

Well, it's not, and you (the DP Review commentors, not you, Al) are imbeciles.

I tend to suffer a bit from that disease myself, but it is amazing just how idiotic some of those folks in their forums can be.

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 04:22
The Hexar AF - which was very much a boutique product rather than mass market - was launched into a crowded field; there were plenty of autofocus cameras with optical finders; the Hexar was arguably the first to combine this with a truly high quality, fast lens and fast autofocus (and silent mode), but it was up against products from Contax, Nikon, Olympus, and others.

The intriguing aspect of the X100 is that Fuji are launching into what is not a crowded market. There's no one else there. It might be a niche product, but they will have all of that niche, and going by the example of EVIL cameras, no-one else will launch into that niche for a year or so.

What crowded market was there for the Hexar AF? To me, it was closer to the Leica M than the boutique P&S cameras. That leaves the Contax G1 and the M6 at the time. The market seems more crowded now... with the u 4/3 cameras, the APS-C mirrorless cameras, and the M9.

Paul T.
09-22-2010, 04:34
What crowded market was there for the Hexar AF? To me, it was closer to the Leica M than the boutique P&S cameras. That leaves the Contax G1 and the M6 at the time. The market seems more crowded now... with the u 4/3 cameras, the APS-C mirrorless cameras, and the M9.

In spirit it was like the M - but it was a (reasonably) compact, autofocus camera with optical viewfinder, up against (many) Contax cameras, not just the G1, the Olympus Mjus, Nikon 35ti, various Yashicas, plus I don't doubt many others.

What large sensor compacts are there with an optical VF? Not many. I have a GF1, but the Fuji seems less of a compromise. Seems, because it has to work in practice.

Like the Hexar, this will be a boutique camera, but I would bet it will establish a bigger niche than the Samsung, RIcoh and Sigma boutique cameras, and I think it will sell more copies than did the Hexar, which I recall cost around £600 UK, more in real terms than the X100, when it launched. (Edit: That's if it works in practice, of course.)

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 04:39
In spirit it was like the M - but it was a (reasonably) compact, autofocus camera with optical viewfinder, up against (many) Contax cameras, not just the G1, the Olympus Mjus, Nikon 35ti, various Yashicas, plus I don't doubt many others. .

Man, I just can't see comparing the Hexar AF with the Mionilux, T2, 35Ti, etc... those were clearly P&S cameras and I always felt the Hexar was a step up from those manual usage wise. I've owned all of them, so this isn't just off of specs.

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 05:57
Didn't the Hexar AF have a shutter with two leafs, and 1/250th second shutter top speed? Or did that change with from the original release? Seemed a mismatch considering the fast lens on it. The Nikon 35ti and 28ti also used two-leaf shutters, but with 1/500s top shutter speed.

This new Fuji has a 1/4000th top speed, certainly a match for anything out there.

tom.w.bn
09-22-2010, 06:03
Didn't the Hexar AF have a shutter with two leafs, and 1/250th second shutter top speed?

1/250 for all models. This is an issue that's not so easy to deal with, espcially if you want to use the lens wide open in daylight. Because the Hexar has no ttl metering you have to compensate it manually if you put an ND-filter in front of the lens. The Hexar is quite challenging.

furcafe
09-22-2010, 06:09
Agreed. Also, w/all due respect to those of us on enthusiast sites like the RFF, the reality is that a few thousand avid photographers doesn't necessarily translate to a significant market for the major camera makers like Nikon & Canon (putting aside their potential concern for cannibalizing existing dSLR market), let alone the consumer electronics companies that just sell cameras on the side like Panasonic, etc. The bulk of their camera sales are point & shoots, w/products for "advanced" photographers like dSLRs & the various EVF system cameras being mostly for prestige. IIRC, photographic products aren't even the biggest source of money for Canon; they probably make more money selling office machines, printers, & industrial optics. Most people in the world are pretty happy w/the cameras in their cellphones.

Marketing managers are very risk adverse, just like most people.

They know that if they bring out an unusual product that fails they'll be fired. If they bring out a product just like the other successful products on the market they'll have something that people will buy, and often only a few minor improvements and a lot of advertising are needed to make the product a "success" and get the marketing manager a raise. This is a safe, low risk approach; stick to what someone else showed works and you'll be OK.

It's rare to find someone willing to stick his neck out and risk failure on a new product. One of the challenges of management is figuring out how to let people fail (but not too often!). Apple is a good example of a company that has figured this out (it helps that the CEO is heavily involved since he's not going to fire himself).

Fuji has been willing to do things differently in the past and not follow Canikon's endless me-too-ism. Even if this does turn to be flawed hopefully it will force some new thinking into the industry.

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 06:10
I've been trying not to talk myself in to this camera overnight...but the longer it bounces around in my head, the more I like it.
Only issue is, I'd likely have to sell off some 35mm rf gear to get it. That's a tough pill to swallow. Much as it may seem to be a Digital Hexar AF, I'm not willing to sell my actual Hexar to get it.

John Robertson
09-22-2010, 06:21
Looks like it takes a real cable release even, don't see why it shouldnt be about the price of the Sony NX5, after all it has a fixed lens.
just might make me buy an up market digithing.

Roberto V.
09-22-2010, 06:24
Since this is a camera that is valiantly attempting to bring the viewfinder back into the photographic mainstream, I have a quick aside: does anyone here actually like composing at arm's length using a screen? I mean, is there anybody here who prefers it to a viewfinder?

My friends always make fun of me because 90% of the time when I'm handed a p&s, I instinctively hold it like an larger camera, with one hand holding it from the bottom, and I put the camera to my face to looks at the non-existing VF :o. I'm so used to having a finder.

Arjay
09-22-2010, 06:32
Well, it just seems that this camera isn't only specced attractively, but it also targets a presumably rather potent consumer group - the baby boomers that have grown up with the very camera type the X100 is mimicking. Not at all a bad idea - a dedicated camera for well-to-do nostalgics. ;)

Oh, and once this camera has gained momentum in the market, I'm sure that other users might follow for the camera's nice ergonomics in a domain of dedicated, 'serious' amateur photography.

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 06:35
People are really complaining of the $1000 price tag? Used film cameras aside, what else has more potential to please a RFF member than this camera (don't even say a low end DSLR)?

DaveP
09-22-2010, 06:44
Hmmm, another version? Or is somebody playing around with PS?

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/.a/6a00df351e888f88340133f467d0eb970b-popup

StaaleS
09-22-2010, 06:46
No, there just seems to be two different prototypes/mockups floating around at present. Not surprising really, they probably haven't frozen the design yet.

kshapero
09-22-2010, 06:59
One observation: I have never seen a thread hit a 1000 pops within 2 days???!!!? So something about this camera is really BIG news.

DaveP
09-22-2010, 07:00
Heres another source for that photo with a 35mm lens on it.

http://enticingthelight.com/2010/09/19/fujifilm-finepix-x100-where-the-hell-did-this-come-from/

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 07:07
One observation: I have never seen a thread hit a 1000 pops within 2 days???!!!? So something about this camera is really BIG news.

It clearly has its lovers and haters... I'm not suprised by this thread here... it is RFF and this fits into the types of cameras many RFF members like.

Vincent.G
09-22-2010, 07:12
OMG... here is my first post after 24 pages of this thread... am I too slow or what?? :D

The camera looks tres sexy!!!:cool:

Zonan
09-22-2010, 07:14
Highly doubt that any orders have been placed just yet, although I'm betting Fuji have had a ton of inquiries to that end. By this time, they must know they've got something akin to a tiger by the tail. I'm assuming the production status of the camera has now been greenlighted.

- Barrett



Saw yesterday that Precision Camera in Texas was taking orders with $100 deposit, for expected delivery approximately January 11 :)

tom.w.bn
09-22-2010, 07:18
Heres another source for that photo with a 35mm lens on it.

http://enticingthelight.com/2010/09/19/fujifilm-finepix-x100-where-the-hell-did-this-come-from/

Someone already found this out somewhere between page 1 and 37 :)
If I see this tomorrow at photokina I will ask for it.

meillana
09-22-2010, 07:26
This was a very bad move by Fujifilm, this camera if it is good as it seems will cannibalize their film sales (as people start abandoning their film fixed lens rangefinders):D:D

I wish it had selectable Fuji film-like settings....
Velvia
Astia/Provia
Reala
Neopan.....
that would be a blast!
(and a film sales killer as you pointed out!) :o

Mcary
09-22-2010, 07:32
By the rather unlikely chance that its hasn't already been posted here the URL for the X100 websitehttp://www.finepix-x100.com/

kshapero
09-22-2010, 07:42
I wish it had selectable Fuji film-like settings....
Velvia
Astia/Provia
Reala
Neopan.....
that would be a blast!
(and a film sales killer as you pointed out!) :oYes that would be cool. Of course there is DXO Filmpack.

sepiareverb
09-22-2010, 07:51
http://cdn.static.viddler.com/flash/publisher.swf?ref&key=353ed48c


the promo video

gavinlg
09-22-2010, 07:55
It's the same lens, just 2 different cameras. The one has a 23mm marked (true focal length) lens, and the other has a 35mm marked (equivalent focal length after sensor crop) lens + different strap lugs and an external AF/MF switch on the side.

noimmunity
09-22-2010, 08:02
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced the announcement of the X100 presages the eventual release of an enthusiast friendly-priced M mount dRF from some Cosina cooperation with either Zeiss or Fuji.

btgc
09-22-2010, 08:09
I wish it had selectable Fuji film-like settings....

I had similar thought...just including all emulsions made by Fujifilm :) With smart navigations to not get lost.

Sure, no one needs them all.

drew.saunders
09-22-2010, 08:17
Dpreview says ~$1000, available March 2011.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/photokina2010/Fujifilm/

There goes a whole lot of tax refunds!

Frankie
09-22-2010, 08:23
So, back to the X100:

MSRP: $1000, announced at Fuji press conference [Source: BJP video]

Features :

Favorite functions assignable (?): to Fn button [left of shutter release]
Manual aperture selection: f2~16 + A
Manual shutter speed selection: B~1/4000 + A
Manual AF, AF-S, AF-C selection [body left edge]
Manual AFL/AEL [back/right]
Manual exposure compensation: +/- 2-stops in 1/3 stop
E/OVF [0.5X]: 90% coverage frameline projected in OVF and 100% in EVF mode
Displayable dataset: so far seen include WB, exp#, L/F (?), ISO, Shutter speed, f-stop, histogram, exposure compensation, horizon, DoF/distance scale (also displayable in LCD) [No doubt user selectable.]
DISP/BACK button toggles dataset display/none in OVF
DoF range coupled with aperture selected
23mm f2.0 lens for APSC [=35mm; if digitally cropped to 6Mp = 46mm]
ISO 200 to 6400 [+/-1 stop boost to ISO 100~12,800 possible]
AF + manual focusing [via lens focusing ring]
Standard tripod socket in bottom centre
HDMI and mini USB port access door [body right]; battery/SD card hatch [bottom/right]
Magnesium body
"Convenient command lever" [function unknown] at right thumb position
Buttons for direct WB and RAW access
Standard threaded cable release in shutter button
Filter size: 46mm [measured, to be confirmed]
Flange to sensor distance: 26mm [measured, to be confirmed]
Accessories: two-piece camera case; electronic flash, vented lens hood, [filter] thread adapter$1000 is cheap, perhaps too cheap... Journalists had described the camera as [I]not light, and solid as a stone.

Had this camera been available when I purchased the ZI+CV40/1.4 a couple of years ago, Fuji wins...my one camera/lens travel outfit.

Being digital, it would have fully fulfilled my shoot freely desire, no film/processing recurring costs and airport worries...and thus no incentive for looking into retrofitting the M.

The dM-retrofit project is hereby pronounced dead...and goodbye to all my critics.

My M2, M6, R-D1, ZI will soon be on eBay; as would the CV 25/4, 40/1.4, 50/2.5 and M-Rokkor 90/4...also most of my Nikon family members [5 of the 8 cameras and 11 of the 14 lenses].

Confirmed late last night that the VF can show the horizon (blue line) and frame level (white line). When the two lines match by rotating the camera, the white line disappears.

capitalK
09-22-2010, 08:23
I wish it had selectable Fuji film-like settings....
Velvia
Astia/Provia
Reala
Neopan.....
that would be a blast!
(and a film sales killer as you pointed out!) :o

I remember reading that it does have those settings. Fuji point and shoots have had settings for Velvia and other film types for a little while now.

elshaneo
09-22-2010, 08:34
Latest news from DPreview.com, Fujifilm has confirmed that the Fuji Finepix X100 will be sold around 1000 USD, which seems to be a real bargain LOL :D

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 08:45
$1000 is totally fair as long as everything Fuji says about it is true. For those who expect this to be $500, keep dreaming. They could have charged more.

doolittle
09-22-2010, 08:46
So its a fixed focal length, non-interchangeable 35mm equivalent point and shoot with a APS-C sensor, with a novel viewfinder for $1000, available some time next year, possibly March.

:o yeah, I want one. Fuji better make it fast before I sober up and change my mind though

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 08:47
So its a fixed focal length, non-interchangeable 35mm equivalent point and shoot with a APS-C sensor, with a novel viewfinder for $1000, available some time next year, possibly March.

How is it a Point and Shoot?

Atom
09-22-2010, 08:52
Woops: My browser wasn't refreshed, this is old news (but good news none the less)

Fuji has said they are releasing in March 2011 and the price will be "in the region of $1000" according to dpreview. Wonder if everyone at Photokina is asking what the price will be or if certain web forums have got the Fuji folks answering that kid of info. :)

ampguy
09-22-2010, 08:52
I think it's too early to put a price on this yet, without having reviews of the lens and a working pre-production model.

One thing I don't like is that there is no ISO dial so the button will still take you to menus, same with WB. Dedicated controls would have been nice.

doolittle
09-22-2010, 08:55
How is it a Point and Shoot?

My mistake, it's Point-N-Shoot :D

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 09:03
My mistake, it's Point-N-Shoot :D

Ok, you win... My M8.2 is a P&S as well. :angel:

doolittle
09-22-2010, 09:07
Ok, you win... My M8.2 is a P&S as well. :angel:

Only in snapshot mode ;)
Just going by the RFF sections, the M8 and M9 are apparently Digital Rangefinders :p

Frankie
09-22-2010, 09:07
59 more posts to 1000...

If one ignores all but X100 product related discussions, posts are less than half the entry count.

Atom
09-22-2010, 09:17
If this new hybrid viewing system thingy works out it would be neat to see a camera like this without a rear LCD screen. Then you could put an ISO dial on the back panel like a Leica. I mean if the EVF allows you to review images with a very high resolution then I would be fine with forgoing a rear screen. Just a wacky thought.

btgc
09-22-2010, 09:22
How is it a Point and Shoot?

No lens swap, no zoom action, no swiveling LCD to proper angle. Simply point at scene and have a picture. That's how I see this kind of camera...PnS isn't a bad word.

skibeerr
09-22-2010, 09:36
Oh, wow. It's a frikken' digital Hexar!!! (A boy can hope...)

Edited to add: unless there are deal-breaking flaws, this is — at long last —*the* camera that might get me to put down my M6 (or at least, join the M6 in my bag). In terms of form factor, it is immensely more appealing than any digital RF or equivalent that I've ever seen.



I am going to get this one, it's my dream come true, not long ago I mentioned I would love a Digital Hexar af and I think now it is here :):):)

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 09:44
No lens swap, no zoom action, no swiveling LCD to proper angle. Simply point at scene and have a picture. That's how I see this kind of camera...PnS isn't a bad word.

Most of things you mention, besides the no lens swap are attributes of point and shoots, generally speaking.

When I think of a point and shoot... I think of a camera that you just have to worry about pressing one button...the shutter release. This is clearly looking to bring manual mode back into the spotlight... i.e. shutter speed dials, aperture ring, manual focus ring, etc.

Thank god for no zoom and no swiveling LCD on this thing... that would ruin it.

P&S is not a bad word, but I feel it dismisses this camera as a serious tool (which if Fuji pulls it off, it can be).

Digital Dude
09-22-2010, 09:45
Get yours ordered today!! ;)
http://www.precision-camera.com/main/fuji-finepix-x100-pre-order-deposit.html

I was VERY tempted to place my deposit but I did a search of their store 'reviews' and they are rated luke-warm at best. Still, they're only place accepting modest deposits right now, so it's a mixed bag.
Regards,
Dan

Frankie
09-22-2010, 09:55
No lens swap, no zoom action, no swiveling LCD to proper angle. Simply point at scene and have a picture. That's how I see this kind of camera...PnS isn't a bad word.

All cameras are Point & Shoot, the question is: how do you point and how well does it shoot.

From the early days of the photographer covering his head with a dark cloth studying the ground glass, to front/back gun-sight wire frames, to inversed telescope, to image reflected through prism[s], to EVF and now O/EVF...all we want is better aiming; AND ideally also see exactly what the sensor sees.

In this respect, there is no better device than EVF. [Before we get into a debate about viewing acuity, a good EVF is no worse than ground glass and far better than loosely framed OVF.]

How well does it shoot boils down firstly to convenience in aiming, lenses FoV choices...every person has favourites.

To call a 22,000e Leica M9T a P&S is indeed correct but seems demeaning. The X100 deserves far better.

CorreCaminos
09-22-2010, 09:57
I was VERY tempted to place my deposit but I did a search of their store 'reviews' and they are rated luke-warm at best. Still, they're only place accepting modest deposits right now, so it's a mixed bag.
Regards,
Dan

Precision Camera is a legitimate photographic store and their customer service is very good.

msbel
09-22-2010, 09:58
I was VERY tempted to place my deposit but I did a search of their store 'reviews' and they are rated luke-warm at best. Still, they're only place accepting modest deposits right now, so it's a mixed bag.
Regards,
Dan

Tempted as well, and I own an X1. Go figure.

What reviews did you see? On the camera itself already?

Pherdinand
09-22-2010, 09:58
why would you run to pay them up front "deposit" for something that might come in march 2011??? Do you really think it will be that difficult to buy one? Or do you really really want to be the first one to get it?

rover
09-22-2010, 09:58
59 more posts to 1000...

I wish to formally announce that there will be no prize of the member how makes the 1000th post.

jtm
09-22-2010, 09:59
I was VERY tempted to place my deposit but I did a search of their store 'reviews' and they are rated luke-warm at best. Still, they're only place accepting modest deposits right now, so it's a mixed bag.


I wouldn't be too surprised about lukewarm ratings as a mail-order (internet) camera store. They're pretty new at that game.

They do have a fine reputation as a physical camera store, though, and the owner/founder has a strong appreciation for Leicas (he has serviced mine). So I wouldn't doubt that if you put your name on the list, they'll reliably sell the first ones they get to the people on that list, and that the price won't be much different from B&H's.

Pherdinand
09-22-2010, 10:00
swiveling lcd is not that bad. Think TLR, or MF SLR...

msbel
09-22-2010, 10:01
If this new hybrid viewing system thingy works out it would be neat to see a camera like this without a rear LCD screen. Then you could put an ISO dial on the back panel like a Leica. I mean if the EVF allows you to review images with a very high resolution then I would be fine with forgoing a rear screen. Just a wacky thought.

This is not a whacky thought at all! I was thinking the same thing last night. If you can shoot, auto-preview and the rest via an EVF, ditch the LCD.

One, avoids the hassle of trying to protect it. Two, you could do a great layout and reinvent the space, especially using manual controls.

semilog
09-22-2010, 10:04
How is it a Point and Shoot?

In roughly the same sense as a Barnack.

Frankie
09-22-2010, 10:28
If this new hybrid viewing system thingy works out it would be neat to see a camera like this without a rear LCD screen. Then you could put an ISO dial on the back panel like a Leica. I mean if the EVF allows you to review images with a very high resolution then I would be fine with forgoing a rear screen. Just a wacky thought.

Alternatively, publish the firmware architecture and encourage development of Apple-style APPs. Interested parties may develop any wacky thing they want or complained about...make it a cult.

jsrockit
09-22-2010, 10:41
why would you run to pay them up front "deposit" for something that might come in march 2011??? Do you really think it will be that difficult to buy one? Or do you really really want to be the first one to get it?

It may be difficult to get... certain cameras are initially... Leica, Panasonic GF1, etc.

btgc
09-22-2010, 11:02
When I think of a point and shoot... I think of a camera that you just have to worry about pressing one button...the shutter release. This is clearly looking to bring manual mode back into the spotlight... i.e. shutter speed dials, aperture ring, manual focus ring, etc.

I feel that camera with dedicated controls is more P&S (in good sense, that is) than similar device, adjusted through menus. One can adjust on move, barely looking at controls, just by feel. OK, this is fine touch, even if good pictures can be taken with menu-driven camera. But there's something pure in this thing, X100 I mean, even if dials don't move mechanical linkages under hood.

macmx
09-22-2010, 11:04
On www.finepix-x100.com you can sign up for email updates. I suggest anyone who is interested in the camera to do this, as it will allow Fuji to get an idea of the potential size of the market and make the camera available in your geographic area.

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 11:06
On www.finepix-x100.com you can sign up for email updates. I suggest anyone who is interested in the camera to do this, as it will allow Fuji to get an idea of the potential size of the market and make the camera available in your geographic area.

You can also give them your input on their design.
I suggested an iso dial on top.

macmx
09-22-2010, 11:13
Yeah and get rid of all the buttons on the back. Most users of this camera will shoot with their preferred settings 99% of the time. You don't need a RAW or flash button on the back IMO.

macmx
09-22-2010, 11:14
According to the site (http://www.finepix-x100.com/), it's for professionals. ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist.


It's at least good that Fuji is taking this camera seriously and don't consider it an expensive compact for people who think rangefinders are a cool fashion accessory.

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 11:20
Yeah and get rid of all the buttons on the back. Most users of this camera will shoot with their preferred settings 99% of the time. You don't need a RAW or flash button on the back IMO.

The RAW button is something I never understood. Do people switch in and out of RAW so often that it becomes necessary? Seems extra silly in preference to a dedicated iso function.

BillBingham2
09-22-2010, 11:21
I wish to formally announce that there will be no prize of the member how makes the 1000th post.

So the rumors over on P-Net about a free Bessa III to the 3000th poster were wrong, dang.......

B2 (;->

doolittle
09-22-2010, 11:22
If the X100 has a manual focus mode utilising the view from the viewfinder, superimposed with the electronic viewfinder projection of the view from the lens, it would be using a form rangefinder triangulation I guess. Time will tell.

To me in the 70s and 80s P&S cameras were the ones with a fixed focus lens, with a view finder to frame the shot. In the digital age it's any compact digital camera, usually without a viewfinder nowadays. Hopefully this means the viewfinder is making a come back.

This does look like a new category. Any suggestions for a name? The best I could think up was H.O.F.F. (Hybrid Optical Fixed Focal), but I don't think it does the Fuji any favours!

macmx
09-22-2010, 11:28
I think manual focus will be using the EVF only.

Paul T.
09-22-2010, 11:29
According to the site (http://www.finepix-x100.com/), it's for professionals. ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Shame they didn't write "PRO" on the body, then we could have saved half an hour of our lives reading irrelevant, repetitive posts.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Re triangulation rangefinding - great idea, considering we have a viewfinder and a sensor, I'd be certain it's not designed in, as that would have been tricky to do and they would have mentioned it. My bet would be manual focusing is done entirely via the EVF.

Anyway, my "professional" (where's the 'TM" key?) friend who I'm going out shooting with tomorrow is threatening to race me (the "amateur") to the shop for this. He'll be using it alongside his MF with Sinar back. He reckons he'll be able to smuggle it into gigs and security won't take it seriously.

Tompas
09-22-2010, 11:49
(...) judging by the excitement in this thread it almost seems like a lot of people are not satisfied with their current digital gear. :D

I have no digital gear.

I've been wisely waiting for this, I guess. :)

AJShepherd
09-22-2010, 11:50
Maybe the manual focus could use a central 'focus spot' where the EVF is overlaid on the OVF, and some kind of indicator when the subject in the focus spot is in focus.
Added to a distance/d.o.f. indicator in the 'head up display' that would be great for manual focus in the OVF.

As far as the $1000 price goes, I hope they don't do the usual trick of rubbing out the '$' and replacing it with a '£' or '€'. There are these things called 'exchange rates', and they're not 1:1!

BillBingham2
09-22-2010, 11:54
I think manual focus will be using the EVF only.

That would sub optimal (read suck).

B2 (;->

tom.w.bn
09-22-2010, 12:06
As far as the $1000 price goes, I hope they don't do the usual trick of rubbing out the '$' and replacing it with a '£' or '€'. There are these things called 'exchange rates', and they're not 1:1!

Of course they will.

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 12:08
That would sub optimal (read suck).

B2 (;->


Not the end of the world. Using the Hexar AF, you have only center focus and you have to sort of have faith that you are focusing where you want. This system is much improved over that (surprisingly workable) system.

tapesonthefloor
09-22-2010, 12:17
If the X100 has a manual focus mode utilising the view from the viewfinder, superimposed with the electronic viewfinder projection of the view from the lens, it would be using a form rangefinder triangulation I guess. Time will tell.

As I mention here (http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1423951#post1423951), traditional rangefinding using triangulation will be possible, but probably not really necessary.

I also ramble on about manual focus possibilities here (http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1423939#post1423939), and since the conversation has turned back in that direction I'll link to it instead of reiterating.

I'll state, though, that we seem to be coming to a consensus that a central EVF focus patch overlaid onto the OVF is ideal, as it will allow us to perform our own quick "contrast autofocus". This discussion is all software. Since the software development end of any camera is far more fluid than the hardware, don't expect to hear anything concrete about this system for months yet. They can't even fall back on development for past cameras because the hybrid viewfinder is such a new concept. The good news, though, is that even if they don't master manual focus in time for version 1 of the firmware, somebody eventually will, and that somebody may not be Fujifilm. After a month or two of fiddling with CHDK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIGIC#CHDK) on a little PowerShot I'm convinced that anything is possible, and I can't say I'll be all that bothered or surprised if Fuji's first software version doesn't live up to expectations. The X100 is a camera worth being patient about.

tonyjuliano
09-22-2010, 12:26
Shame they didn't write "PRO" on the body, then we could have saved half an hour of our lives reading irrelevant, repetitive posts.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Re triangulation rangefinding - great idea, considering we have a viewfinder and a sensor, I'd be certain it's not designed in, as that would have been tricky to do and they would have mentioned it. My bet would be manual focusing is done entirely via the EVF.

Anyway, my "professional" (where's the 'TM" key?) friend who I'm going out shooting with tomorrow is threatening to race me (the "amateur") to the shop for this. He'll be using it alongside his MF with Sinar back. He reckons he'll be able to smuggle it into gigs and security won't take it seriously.

No mechanical triangulation is necessary if Fuji incorporates their new Phase Detect sensors.

Read all about it here...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10080505fujifilmpd.asp

Utilizing this technology, they could easily give visual feedback to the EVF in order to confirm focus.

It's a wonderful time we are living in, I've been waiting for this camera for ages.

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 12:31
So a small CMOS sensor in an RF window with an optical wedge in front of it is a non-starter...

Electronicly superimposed on the electronic frameline using EVF technology, just optically superimposed with the viewfinder using a beamsplitter...Framelines electronically compensate for parallax and field-of-view...

DougFord
09-22-2010, 12:41
If manual focus is available in OVF mode, it would be nice to have a horizontally projected indicator below the frame lines that would represent the focus throw of the lens.
The center patch, (if using Fuji’s newly design PDAF system) or preselected movable projected focus patch (using traditional CDAF) in the OVF would represent the focus point being measured. The horizontal indicator would have the DOF, for the specific aperture selected, represented by the color yellow for example, as you adjusted the manual focus a red vertical indicator would move along the horizontal plane of the DOF indicator, until focus was obtained where upon the indicator would change from red to green. This way you can see front and rear DOF for a given aperture. Fastest AF and the most accurate manual focus will be obtained relying on the PDAF pixels which would presumably be located near the center ‘patch’ of the sensor.

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 12:44
Wait...I just understood the Hybrid Finder. I thought it was just referring to the exposure info superimposed.
Duh!
That's pretty cool...not more attractive to me...but pretty cool.

aizan
09-22-2010, 12:59
ooh, look at the mirror sliding down! :)

at 19s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbAtc13O-lI&feature=player_embedded

at 28s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW0J2Lp8gxQ&feature=player_embedded

BillBingham2
09-22-2010, 13:05
You guys should check out the site: http://www.finepix-x100.com/x100/hybrid-viewfinder

The second image (from the top) changes to show the different functions (it's a bit slow on my computer/connection).

A movable focus point!

I've seen it and my only concern is that it's not on the EVF it MUST be on the Optical Finder TOO. Which is how I am reading it and hoping.

I love the hybrid approach and like what I see, just wondering how manual focus assistance will be implemented. I like what you have on the Nikon D40, a little green light when you hit it would be fine.

I LOVE the metering option and display of where you focus are down at the bottom. I hope that the size of the gray overlay on the focusing scale will increase and shrink as you adjust the f-Stop. Depth of field in the viewfinder would ROCK!! For that I would pay $1000.

Fingers crossed.

B2 (;->

Warren T.
09-22-2010, 13:14
I haven't been this excited about a new camera announcement in a looooong time :).

The hybrid vf is a real innovative approach, and the styling is gorgeous. If Fuji actually delivers all the goods that they promised, and at the $1000 price-point, I'll buy one for sure.

--Warren

reiki_
09-22-2010, 13:19
ooh, look at the mirror sliding down! :)

at 19s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbAtc13O-lI&feature=player_embedded

at 28s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW0J2Lp8gxQ&feature=player_embedded

This is the coolest thing i have seen since I've been like 5 years old.

tom.w.bn
09-22-2010, 13:21
At the moment I'm thinking about what I would do with this camera. Taking photos? Of course, but the question is when and what impact will it have on my current equipment?
Next week I will go on a 8 day vacation to southern france. I will take most of my equipment with me. Thats the Zeiss Ikon with 35mm Biogon + bw film and the 5DII with 2.8/24mm and 1.4/50mm. The rest of my equipment (elmar-m 50 and a 85mm for the 5D and the hexar AF) stays at home.
Where does the X100 fit in? Not sure right now.

Yashi
09-22-2010, 13:25
.............996

Yashi
09-22-2010, 13:25
.............997

Yashi
09-22-2010, 13:26
..............998

Yashi
09-22-2010, 13:26
.........999

Yashi
09-22-2010, 13:27
.........1000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

damn, got me:)

Ok..1001

tom.w.bn
09-22-2010, 13:27
.............997

If someone is happy that she has the 1000 then you delete one of those posts. clever idea. :rolleyes:

aizan
09-22-2010, 13:27
just putting this out there, but do you really need an EVF for a 35/2 lens? macros...really?

BobYIL
09-22-2010, 13:29
Hoping the X101 would come up with a 33mm f1.4 lens.. So together with the X100 my favorite FL's would be covered...

BillBingham2
09-22-2010, 13:33
Forget the 33, give me a 50/2 and I'd be REALLY happy to buy both.

B2 (;->

BillBingham2
09-22-2010, 13:35
X100T on the 50/2 and then a X100W with a 16/2.5 (though I would love a 16/2).

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 13:37
X100T on the 50/2 and then a X100W with a 16/2.5 (though I would love a 16/2).

Make that a 13mm, as slow as you like...or an interchangeable with those lens options.

semilog
09-22-2010, 13:38
just putting this out there, but do you really need an EVF for a 35/2 lens? macros...really?

Yes, really.

If the ONLY reason was that you could project framelines with different aspect ratio crops (2:1, 1.7:1, 3:2, 4:3, 5:4, 1:1) and deliver JPEGs at those aspect ratios, it would be worth it.

I LOVE the idea of shooting square-format street with a small digital VF camera.

But add perfect parallax correction when shooting close, dynamic pre-exposure histogram, dynamic through-the-finder DOF scale AND DOF preview, all in a VF camera... etc.?

That's not a good idea. It is a truly a GREAT idea -- one of the best I've EVER seen in camera development.

I am not claiming that it's necessarily well-implemented -- we won't really know until some months after the camera is released -- but the idea is truly innovative, and simply wonderful.

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 13:42
Yes, really.

If the ONLY reason was that you could project framelines with different aspect ratio crops (2:1, 1.7:1, 3:2, 4:3, 5:4, 1:1) and deliver JPEGs at those aspect ratios, it would be worth it.

I LOVE the idea of shooting square-format street with a small digital VF camera.

But add perfect parallax correction when shooting close, dynamic pre-exposure histogram, dynamic through-the-finder DOF scale AND DOF preview, all in a VF camera... etc.?

That's not a good idea. It's a GREAT idea.

Amen...

Not the most important feature to me, but certainly a welcome one.

ferider
09-22-2010, 13:43
Let me add to what semilog wrote: the viewfinder in connection to AF is invaluable to focus and re-compose. That's how I used my Hexar AFs all the time.

Yashi
09-22-2010, 13:45
What I do not understand is that they will bring this camera into shops somewhere in 2011. First of all, the specs of this camera are almost perfect, apart from the fixed lens. Almost a revolution. Most of us here would have been happy with a full frame, decent lens, and a ergonomic design as presented in many RF 40,50,60 years ago. If they would have come up with sale starts in November 2010 they would have sell more as any item of Apple, ever. Also the price is way to low. You start here with 1699$ and than go slightly down and introduce the X200. Now the industry has time to think about this.(I do hope the Olympus, Panasonic, Nikon, Canon and especially Leica designers are doing night shifts now. And if the right people would have looked into this forum 3 years ago they would already have known what our desire is, anyway...) Let´s see what we have in 15 month....

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 13:53
Just doing an inventory of gear. What would I be willing to part with to have this camera?
Hexar AF? No. Even though it would get little use, I just can't bear to see it go.
R3A kit? No. It's just too good/solid a little kit for me to part with.
Mamiya 7? No way in hell.
Bronica SQA? Again...nope.

So, gonna have to sell something non-photographic...like a kid maybe...or a dog...a kidney...

tapesonthefloor
09-22-2010, 13:56
ooh, look at the mirror sliding down! :)

at 19s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbAtc13O-lI&feature=player_embedded

at 28s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW0J2Lp8gxQ&feature=player_embedded

What you're actually seeing there is the OVF version of a lens cap sliding into place. By blocking all light passing through the OVF, the EVF is able to provide its full range of colour and brightness with no visual competition.

Yashi
09-22-2010, 13:57
Just doing an inventory of gear. What would I be willing to part with to have this camera?
Hexar AF? No. Even though it would get little use, I just can't bear to see it go.
R3A kit? No. It's just too good/solid a little kit for me to part with.
Mamiya 7? No way in hell.
Bronica SQA? Again...nope.

So, gonna have to sell something non-photographic...like a kid maybe...or a dog...a kidney...


Had my Contax G2 on ebay for two days.... But can not sell it... auction stopped....
Will give away some other stuff...

tlitody
09-22-2010, 14:02
What I do not understand is that they will bring this camera into shops somewhere in 2011. First of all, the specs of this camera are almost perfect, apart from the fixed lens. Almost a revolution. Most of us here would have been happy with a full frame, decent lens, and a ergonomic design as presented in many RF 40,50,60 years ago. If they would have come up with sale starts in November 2010 they would have sell more as any item of Apple, ever. Also the price is way to low. You start here with 1699$ and than go slightly down and introduce the X200. Now the industry has time to think about this.(I do hope the Olympus, Panasonic, Nikon, Canon and especially Leica designers are doing night shifts now. And if the right people would have looked into this forum 3 years ago they would already have known what our desire is, anyway...) Let´s see what we have in 15 month....

Thats why they are making cameras and money and why you are hanging out on web forums like the rest of us:rolleyes:

If they've done their homework, and they will have, they'll know exactly what the other manufacturers are going to release in the next twelve months just like all the other major manufacturers will know what fuji were going to do.
The price point will reflect that. It a cmos sensor which is cheaper than ccd sensors to make. It hasn't got the absolute best components money can buy. It is a compromise, like all cameras, and designed to sell in volume and not be an elitist status symbol like a leica. Comments like it should have cost a lot more are just plain gaga.

alexnotalex
09-22-2010, 14:06
So, now, keep my M3 money to buy a FujiX100, or stick with the original M3+'cron plan?
Oooohhhhh...

Yashi
09-22-2010, 14:15
Thats why they are making cameras and money and why you are hanging out on web forums like the rest of us:rolleyes:

If they've done their homework, and they will have, they'll know exactly what the other manufacturers are going to release in the next twelve months just like all the other major manufacturers will know what fuji were going to do.
The price point will reflect that. It a cmos sensor which is cheaper than ccd sensors to make. It hasn't got the absolute best components money can buy. It is a compromise, like all cameras, and designed to sell in volume and not be an elitist status symbol like a leica. Comments like it should have cost a lot more are just plain gaga.

Yes, you are absolutly right........

semilog
09-22-2010, 14:28
So, now, keep my M3 money to buy a FujiX100, or stick with the original M3+'cron plan?
Oooohhhhh...

Do you want to shoot film or not?

The Fuji looks like a neat camera (I'm *very* excited), but make no mistake: using it will *not* be the same experience as using an M.

If you want a "digital M," a used RD-1 might be a better choice.

I am not saying the Fuji will be worse, just different.

What are your goals?

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 14:48
So, now, keep my M3 money to buy a FujiX100, or stick with the original M3+'cron plan?
Oooohhhhh...

Would you get a fixed-lens RF such as a Konica S2 instead of the M3 and Summicron? It would cost less, has a great lens, and a great viewfinder. I still think of this new camera as a Fixed-Lens RF in the Digital Age. I like using Fixed-Lens RF's, but go back to the M-Mount and S-Mount cameras most of the time. But I've kept the Hi-Matic 9, "Panda" Canonet QL17l, and Waltz Envoy 35.

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 14:56
I can only think of one other thing that I'd really like to see implemented in the hybrid viewfinder.

http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=81479&stc=1&d=1285196147

"This is a Simulation, This is only a Simulation" Put a CMOS Sensor where an RF patch would go, put an optical wedge in front of it, couple with a cam on the lens. Display the CMOS image on the EVF, optically overlaid with the OVF. It would make setting the horizontal alignment and vertical alignment easier...

Frankie
09-22-2010, 15:00
Would you get a fixed-lens RF such as a Konica S2 instead of the M3 and Summicron? It would cost less, has a great lens, and a great viewfinder. I still think of this new camera as a Fixed-Lens RF in the Digital Age. I like using Fixed-Lens RF's, but go back to the M-Mount and S-Mount cameras most of the time. But I've kept the Hi-Matic 9, "Panda" Canonet QL17l, and Waltz Envoy 35.

Brian, your are correct. The X100 is a fixed lens RF [of the 3rd kind] in the digital age.

To many, dare I say most, the M is also a fixed-lens RF. They could not afford another lens, the one they bought the camera with is therefore fixed.

Worse, the M is only a P&S...because they could not really see the frameline...so point and shoot.

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 15:03
They may only have one lens because a couple of us have the rest of them...

60? LTM+M-Mount... I forget...

In fact, it might be an advantage that the 23/2 is built in. People will wait a while before taking it off and mounting on something else.

akremer
09-22-2010, 15:05
I'd pay up to $1200 without thinking. Any more and I'd have to think about it.

Yep.

Digital G2!

Frankie
09-22-2010, 15:06
I can only think of one other thing that I'd really like to see implemented in the hybrid viewfinder.

http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=81479&stc=1&d=1285196147

"This is a Simulation, This is only a Simulation" Put a CMOS Sensor where an RF patch would go, put an optical wedge in front of it, couple with a cam on the lens. Display the CMOS image on the EVF, optically overlaid with the OVF. It would make setting the horizontal alignment and vertical alignment easier...

How about simply projecting a centre patch of the electronic view into the OVF and see actual focusing...no cam, no wedge, no hardware.

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 15:08
I had the EP2 out today with the Nikkor 28/2 today. Sun has set. Yesterday, had the EP2 out with the Konica 28/1.8. Quick-look "Pixel-Peeping", the Nikkor is better wide-open but the Konica focuses to ~7". By F4, both are tack-sharp. At F2, the Nikkor is tack-sharp. I can use LTM, M-Mount, Nikon S-Mount, Contax RF Mount, M42, Nikon F-Mount, Canon, Olympus, and Konica with it. I did not buy a Retina mount. 200+ lenses...

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 15:11
How about simply projecting a centre patch of the electronic view into the OVF and see actual focusing...no cam, no wedge, no hardware.

The RF is more accurate for fast lenses up to about 2x magnification.

So when using with a 100mm focal length or longer, we'll switch over to the actual view from the CMOS Sensor overlaid on the OVF. We can magnify the image as well, like on the EP2. At 10x magnification, focusing is easy. In fact- Olympus should magnify just the center patch, and not the entire image as they do now. That way, get precise focus for the chosen spot, and use the rest of the image for framing. New take on SLR style focus aids.

Just Software.

Frankie
09-22-2010, 15:21
The RF is more accurate for fast lenses up to about 2x magnification.

So when using with a 100mm focal length or longer, we'll switch over to the actual view from the CMOS Sensor overlaid on the OVF. We can magnify the image as well, like on the EP2. At 10x magnification, focusing is easy. In fact- Olympus should magnify just the center patch, and not the entire image as they do now. That way, get precise focus for the chosen spot, and use the rest of the image for framing. New take on SLR style focus aids.

Just Software.

The X100 EVF panel is 800 x 600 x RGB @ 12u pixel size. 0.5X VF magnification makes the effective EVF pixel size 6u.

The APS-C sensor used is ~4000 x 3000. A 5~10X zoom centre patch is possible without interpolating the EVF pixels.

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 15:27
Several questions to ponder.

Will Kobayashi san (Cosina) maintain his commitment to not going digital?

When will we see the first X100 for sale in the classifieds?

Will it look really cool with a little brassing ... like an MP?

At 1000 posts for this thread do RFFers prefer talking about cameras to actually taking photographs?

How many times do I have to sell my Canon A620 on eBay to get the funds for one of these?

:D

No
24 days
No
Yes
About 14

Frankie
09-22-2010, 15:32
Several questions to ponder.

Will Kobayashi san (Cosina) maintain his commitment to not going digital?
:D

Kabayashi-San had never committed not going to digital. He was only said to dislike digital. I interpret that as the Japanese face-saving way of not saying he cannot because no doubt CV is still under a Non-compete clause for sub-contract building the R-D1.

I have been to Japan 22 times, and in 3 weeks the 23rd time. I worked closely with a number of Japanese for more than a decade...I am beginning to be able to understand what they are really saying or not saying.

I would expect the Head Bartender mentioning to K-San just about now that the X100 is burning up RFF...and K-San might just simply say ah-so.

BillBingham2
09-22-2010, 15:48
What about the idea of making the bright bar in the focusing range grow or shrink based upon the DOF provided by the aperture you are using?

That to me would be VERY handy.

Thoughts?

B2

BillBingham2
09-22-2010, 15:49
Pres K. might have a hand in this somewhere. Who knows perhaps he will be able to sell them in the rest of the world under the Voigtlander name?

B2 (;->

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 15:53
What about the idea of making the bright bar in the focusing range grow or shrink based upon the DOF provided by the aperture you are using?

That to me would be VERY handy.

Thoughts?

B2

That should be easy- just a look up table based on F-Stop, translate to a graphic on the screen.

Or we'll put little moving tabs on the Electronic RF Spot...

noimmunity
09-22-2010, 15:56
I think it's for sure that there will be from Cosina a digital body taking M lenses, Keith.

Cosina has been involved with other makers aiming to deliver cameras that appeal to the passion of photography, such as the Bessa III and the Zeiss Ikon.

Fuji's commitment to bring this passion into the digital realm surely opens up the field. Cosina, in tandem with either Zeiss or Fuji, will step up.




Several questions to ponder.

Will Kobayashi san (Cosina) maintain his commitment to not going digital?

When will we see the first X100 for sale in the classifieds?

Will it look really cool with a little brassing ... like an MP?

At 1000 posts for this thread do RFFers prefer talking about cameras to actually taking photographs?

How many times do I have to sell my Canon A620 on eBay to get the funds for one of these?

:D

Frankie
09-22-2010, 15:58
What about the idea of making the bright bar in the focusing range grow or shrink based upon the DOF provided by the aperture you are using?

That to me would be VERY handy.

Thoughts?

B2

Bet on that happening...and easy to do. I had already posted a message in the Fujifilm web site.

In the software world, it is called a LUT [Look Up Table]. The GUI [the bright bar] simply represents the data.

This is why I smiled when many had complained that the lens had no DoF scale...why look anywhere when it is right in the VF?

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 16:02
Looking at the image of the viewfinder, they already have a DOF scale for the chosen F-Stop. It's the white portion of the bar. Red line in center is the Distance set on the lens, white portion surrounding it is the DOF.

(from last page, without my added RF Spot)

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=81471&d=1285190425

You know, if they changed it to little red arrows, it would look just like a Kodak Retina lens on my IIIS.

aad
09-22-2010, 16:04
I wonder how many pages this topic would get if the thing looked like an Instamatic.

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 16:07
If it looked like the Instamatic 500, I'd go for it.

http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Kodak_Instamatic_500

Selenium Cell for automatic battery recharging.

Nah- do away with the selenium cell, and use the space for the hybrid viewfinder. Focus, F-Stop, and Shutter speed around the lens.

Frankie
09-22-2010, 16:08
Looking at the image of the viewfinder, they already have a DOF scale for the chosen F-Stop. It's the white portion of the bar. Red line in center is the Distance set on the lens, white portion surrounding it is the DOF.

Right...Brian.

Now note the numbers and check against a DoF table for that focusing distance.

Much of the noise in this thread came from not looking carefully. I took much time compiling specifications from multiple sources first before my first posting. I dare say I have collected more data from images on the net that most...if not all.

semilog
09-22-2010, 16:15
If it looked like the Instamatic 500, I'd go for it.

pwnt.

Beautiful, Brian.

Brian Sweeney
09-22-2010, 16:16
I suspect that we are still in the "Engineering Concepts" phase for this camera, being 6 months off. It will be interesting to see what Rel 1.0 of the firmware looks like compared to the images being shown. I get the feel that they are more images than actual displays generated from data. Anyway- would not be a bad way to show DOF, and I have not checked the numbers for F5.6 and a 23mm lens.

semilog
09-22-2010, 16:17
I dare say I have collected more data from images on the net that most...if not all.

And you're modest, too. :rolleyes:

semilog
09-22-2010, 16:19
Anyway- would not be a bad way to show DOF, and I have not checked the numbers for F5.6 and a 23mm lens.

In any case it is not a given that Fuji's engineers are using a DOF function with the same size circle of confusion as on any given generic DOF table.

Frankie
09-22-2010, 16:19
The best X100 hands-on report is this:

http://www.quesabesde.com/noticias/fuji-finepix-x100-analisis-video,1_6801

Study the VF portion near the end.

Frankie
09-22-2010, 16:23
And you're modest, too. :rolleyes:

In my professional world, they don't call me frank, i.e. for nothing. ;)

malland
09-22-2010, 16:27
I've just seen that the 2.8 inch LCD on the X100 is 460,000 dots. This compares to 3-inch 920,000-dot LCDs on the Ricoh GRD3 and GXR cameras that I currently use.

While the I have no problem in framing with the high resolution GRD3 and GXR LCDs in the brightest light in Thailand, I'm concerned that the 460,000-dot LCD on the X100 is likely to be less usable in this type of light. To me this is important because, for street photography, I prefer to frame with the LCD (as I wrote in post #827 above), and would expect to use the LCD of the X100 for framing more than I would the hybrid viewfinder.

On the other hand, for people who plan mostly to use the viewfinder will be happy that the EVF on the X100 has 1.44 million pixels.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Hysteria Book Project (http://www.flickr.com/photos/malland/sets/72157613189560804/show/)

narsuitus
09-22-2010, 16:29
If the Fuji X100 lives up to its specs, I will probably buy one instead of the second Canon G11 body I had planned on buying. The X100 will give me three important features that my G11 does not have -- improved manual focus, manufacturing quality to withstand the wear and tear of daily usage, and an f/2 aperture at the 35mm equivalent focal length (the G11 only gives me f/3.2 at 35mm).

The X100 cannot, however, replace my G11 because it lacks two important features that I need -- a swing/tilt LCD and a black body.

As good as they are, the G11 and the X100 lack two important features I need -- a rangefinder focusing system and interchangeable lenses. I look forward to the day when someone manufactures a digital rangefinder with all the features I need and is able to sell it at a reasonable price.

st3ph3nm
09-22-2010, 16:49
To me, this is the camera that the Ricoh GRs should have been if they'd wanted sales. I thought the 28mm focal length too wide to be anything but a niche product. 35mm, on the otherhand, is very commonly used. I've seen people both here and on SLR forums mention their favourite 35mm (or equivalent on a DSLR) lens to be practically "glued" to their cameras. Very nicely, done, this X100. I think it'll become an instant classic. Would I buy one? Money permitting, I daresay it'd replace my Canon A95 very nicely! Many here are comparing it to the Leica, but I wonder what it'll do to the G11 sales? I believe that many G11 users bought them to do exactly what the Fuji promises to do.

semilog
09-22-2010, 16:51
I've just seen that the 2.8 inch LCD on the X100 is 460,000 dots... I prefer to frame with the LCD (as I wrote in post #827 above), and would expect to use the LCD of the X100 for framing more than I would the hybrid viewfinder.

Seems to me the whole appeal of this camera is the viewing system, and with your preferences you'd be much better off with a GF-1 or E-PL1 and the Panasonic pancake lens. Is it the manual control knobs that appeal, or something else?

tapesonthefloor
09-22-2010, 17:33
Seems to me the whole appeal of this camera is the viewing system, and with your preferences you'd be much better off with a GF-1 or E-PL1 and the Panasonic pancake lens. Is it the manual control knobs that appeal, or something else?

I came here to say exactly this. Those who enjoy composing at arm's length already have an army of small digicams to choose from. Leave this one alone. This one's mine. :angel:

Ken Ford
09-22-2010, 17:38
Forget the 33, give me a 50/2 and I'd be REALLY happy to buy both.

B2 (;->

Hear hear!

aizan
09-22-2010, 17:41
wouldn't it be nice if ricoh eventually made a gxr body with an optical viewfinder and LCD projected framelines and whatnot? no EVF necessary! i'd rather buy that instead of the x100.

malland
09-22-2010, 17:47
Seems to me the whole appeal of this camera is the viewing system, and with your preferences you'd be much better off with a GF-1 or E-PL1 and the Panasonic pancake lens. Is it the manual control knobs that appeal, or something else?Let's say that I'm "greedy" in that I like the choice of using the either viewfinder or the LCD — nothing is perfect for all situations. No matter how much I like framing with the LCD there is the fact that I need reading glasses, which means that, when framing with the LCD, I can only just about read the aperture or shutter speed. When not wanting to shoot in a very "loose" or fluid way, or when not needing to appear not taking a picture (stealth), the option of using a good viewfinder is attractive. Also, I like the manual controls. And, when using a camera with sensor large than that of the GRD3, I prefer APS-C to MFT.

At the end of the day, however, I would have to see how good the 440,000-dot LCD on the X100 actually is. The ones on the GRD3 and the GXR are good enough not only to frame — at least roughly — in bright sunlit and also, with practice, to judge exposure fairly well.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Wild Beasts of Botswana (http://www.flickr.com/photos/malland/3528728552/in/set-72157618035393355/lightbox/)

bwcolor
09-22-2010, 18:01
By the time this comes out there will be many interchangeable lens cameras available. Already, the Samsung NX100 and new GXR module look good and who knows what Canon and Nikon have in store. Sony's NEX-7 should be out by March. That ignores any offering, or promise to produce an offering that might come from Leica. We are about to have many options. Digital is finally starting to compete with the old film rangefinders. Now, let's find out about image quality, autofocus speed, shutter lag, viewfinder characteristics and all the things that have to be right to make a camera work. I'm going to look at all of them. I don't have to have a camera that looks like my rangefinders. Come on Leica/Zeiss/CV... how about a full frame camera for under 4K. You can do it. I can wait.. but not much longer. Zeiss now owns the rights to the name Contax... got any ideas what they can do with that name? I have a few.

dazedgonebye
09-22-2010, 18:05
By the time this comes out there will be many interchangeable lens cameras available. Already, the Samsung NX100 and new GXR module look good and who knows what Canon and Nikon have in store. Sony's NEX-7 should be out by March. That ignores any offering, or promise to produce an offering that might come from Leica. We are about to have many options. Digital is finally starting to compete with the old film rangefinders. Now, let's find out about image quality, autofocus speed, shutter lag, viewfinder characteristics and all the things that have to be right to make a camera work. I'm going to look at all of them. I don't have to have a camera that looks like my rangefinders. Come on Leica/Zeiss/CV... how about a full frame camera for under 4K. You can do it. I can wait.. but not much longer. Zeiss now owns the rights to the name Contax... got any ideas what they can do with that name? I have a few.

Zeiss could make the X100 with interchangeable lenses and call it...the G2D.

DaveP
09-22-2010, 18:32
Has anyone seen a clear enough pic to tell if the lens has filter threads? I cant see them and the depth of the rim of the lens doesnt look deep enough.

tonyjuliano
09-22-2010, 18:53
Has anyone seen a clear enough pic to tell if the lens has filter threads? I cant see them and the depth of the rim of the lens doesnt look deep enough.

It definitely has filter threads, 46mm to be exact...

Can anyone say "1.5X teleconverter"?

tonyjuliano
09-22-2010, 19:04
Indeed.

Whoever heard of a single lens non-reflex semi-rangefinder?

I WANT ONE!

malland
09-22-2010, 19:16
...Can anyone say "1.5X teleconverter"?No, but I can say "0.8x and 0.6x wide-converters", either of which would be less bulky for an f/2 lens and would probably involve less issues of flare because the glass surface would be smaller.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Scratching the Surface (http://www.flickr.com/photos/malland/3288123582/in/set-72157621142420186/lightbox/)

julianphotoart
09-22-2010, 19:31
This thread began 3 days ago, and now over 1000 posts. Is that a record?

The X100 appears, at least visually, so elegant and well-balanced. It is a singularly fine looking camera whether film or digital. We all wonder, wonder, wonder if it will behave as well as it looks. Do you think Fuji reads discussions like these?

Pablito
09-22-2010, 21:20
I cannot read thru all the posts to see if this has already been posted but the price according to dpreview will be around $1,000 and it will be available in March 2011 roughly.

Frankie
09-23-2010, 01:17
It definitely has filter threads, 46mm to be exact...

Can anyone say "1.5X teleconverter"?

About a hundred posts ago, I posted my compilation of available specifications. The data was either observable from hands-on pictures or [photogrammetric] measurements...photogrammetry being my professional field.

See: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1425014&postcount=938

I had determined the filter thread size to be 46mm within minutes of the Fuji announcement from pictures published...using the top view picture size to published camera width dimension of 127mm as a scale factor (0.5226).

That same scale factor also indicate flange to sensor distance [symbol] to be 26mm. [Important that the distance be under 28mm if a future mount be adaptable to M-mount.]

Elsewhere, I had also seen a post with a picture of a Fuji poster showing the accessories: a leather case; a flash, a vented [but not tilted] hood and a [filter?] thread adapter...still tracking down that actual page.

The thread adapter got me thinking: why not a front threaded wide or tele converter [Canon G7~11 style.]? If Fuji had optimized the 23mm lens to the sensor, then a front-threaded converter would not have disturbed that set-up...right?

Thoughts???

Frankie
09-23-2010, 01:45
Indeed.

Whoever heard of a single lens non-reflex semi-rangefinder?

I have been musing for a new name for the X100-type since Fuji's announcement.

To begin with, all cameras except zone-focus guessing type find the range. RF is therefore common to all cameras. BUT, it is auto-focus...AF.

The VF can be, and has been called hybrid...HVF; or optical and electronic...OVF EVF.

It is definitely single lens or solo lens...SL or sL. :)

It is digital...D or d.

And, hopefully, one day it will become interchangeable lens...IL.

So......how about O/EVF for now and O'EVIL one day soon. :D

cam
09-23-2010, 02:03
i took a pic (cropped) of the camera being "used" at Photokina, cropped to better show the size.

they only had two beta models that were battened down... i just wanted to show that it was truly not that large, though there was no way to gauge weight...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/5016727463_ba8bcefa6c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/glanceorgaze/5016727463/)
a fuji in the hand (http://www.flickr.com/photos/glanceorgaze/5016727463/) by je ne suis pas (http://www.flickr.com/people/glanceorgaze/), on Flickr