Death of a standard?

[oftheherd]

So sorry Mr. Hicks, both for the news, and that I have to be the messenger. :p

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38902171/ns/today-books/

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38627912/ns/today-books

But what's up with chimping not being added? Maybe they couldn't find the etymology?

[Rogrund]

This is the (sad) reality of lexicography. I use both versions of the OED, the online at work and the printed at home. Even if the first one is a joy to use compared to many other online dictionaries, it can't beat the feeling of the 20 thick volumes in my bookcase!

[sig]

Death of a standard? Is the OED a standard?

[Rogrund]

Death of a standard? Is the OED a standard?

Well, not a standard to follow, since the OED is a descriptive dictionary. But it is called "the definitive record of the English language".

[John Lawrence]

I'm saddened.

One of the joys of searching for a word in the printed version of the OED was finding other interesting words on the same page, or in the search for that word.

John

[1ScrewLoose]

"Remember the firemen are rarely necessary. The public stopped reading of its own accord." -- Fahrenheit 451

[oftheherd]

Does this mean that they will become collector items?

Perhaps. Check an ebay listing near you.

[greyelm]

Does this mean that they will become collector items?

I understand that they are already making copies of this from old Websters in the Ukraine, complete with military insignia :D

[dogberryjr]

Does this mean that they will become collector items?
Yes, but only if they have all their original packaging, have never been used and have a recent CLA.

[paulfish4570]

't'isn't dead; it is just on a different shelf ...

[photogdave]

I'm saddened.

One of the joys of searching for a word in the printed version of the OED was finding other interesting words on the same page, or in the search for that word.

John
Kind of like searching for a certain frame in your negatives often leads to seeing an old forgotten shot in a new way!

[John Lawrence]

Kind of like searching for a certain frame in your negatives often leads to seeing an old forgotten shot in a new way!

Exactly.

Reminds me of a comment I once read about Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, which went something like:

"You probably won't find what you're looking for amongst its pages, but you will find several far more interesting things!"

John

[chris000]

Death of a standard? Is the OED a standard?

Often copied, never bettered :)

[j j]

Isn't this a bit like film is dead and Leica is dead? The word may features heavily and that word usually translates as non story. In any case, how many people own the full set? One volume or two volumes on paper is enough for most users. The story reads more like a push for webscribers than anything.

[Steve M.]

If you want a definitive record of the English language, just buy the plays of Shakespeare and Tennessee Williams. Any word you might want to use that isn't there isn't worth using.

[oftheherd]

Well you will also need the official scrabble dictionary, especially the two letter words.
...

XU Vietnamese monetary unit
...



I never knew that. Imagine, 1/100 of a dong. When I was there, it took more than 500 dong to make a dollar. You couldn't have given a xu to a kid. That's if you could have found a xu. I never heard of it nor saw one. I wonder if that was a then North Vietnamese currency, or perhaps a pre-WWII currency?

[Al Patterson]

So a printed copy of a standard is now moving online, and that is death? PLEASE download my brain to the web so I can "die" like the OED...

[Al Patterson]

Well you will also need the official scrabble dictionary, especially the two letter words.

AA rough, cindery lava
AB abdominal muscle {OSPD3}
AD advertisement
AE one
AG pert. to agriculture

AH to exclaim in amazement
AI three-toed sloth
AL East Indian tree
AM [be-conj] (to exist)
AN indefinite article

AR letter 'r'
AS to the same degree
AT in the location of
AW intj. expressing disbelief
AX to cut with an ax

AY aye
BA eternal soul in Egyptian mythology
BE to exist
BI bisexual
BO pal

BY side issue
DE of, from
DO to execute/first tone of musical scale
ED education {OSPD3}
EF letter 'f'

EH intj. used to indicate lack of understanding
EL letter 'l'
EM printer's measurement
EN printer's measurement
ER intj. expressing hesitation

ES letter 's'
ET [eat-conj] (to consume)
EX letter 'x'
FA fourth tone of diatonic musical scale
FE Hebrew letter (feh, pe) {OSPD4}

GO to leave/Japanese board game
HA sound expressing triumph
HE male person
HI intj. used as a greeting
HM intj. expressing thought (hmm)

HO intj. used to attract attention to something
ID part of psyche related to instinctual impulses
IF possible condition
IN influence
IS [be-conj] (to exist)

IT person playing tag/indefinite pronoun
JO sweetheart
KA Egyptian spiritual self
KI vital life-sustaining energy force (qi) {OSPD4}
LA sixth tone of diatonic musical scale

LI Chinese unit of distance
LO intj. used to attract attention
MA mother
ME pronoun referring to myself
MI third tone of diatonic musical scale

MM intj. expressing satisfaction
MO moment
MU Greek letter
MY possessive prounoun
NA no

NE born with the name of (nee)
NO negative reply
NU Greek letter
OD hypothetical force of natural power
OE Faroean wind

OF coming from
OH to exclaim "oh"
OI intj. expressing dismay (oy) {OSPD4}
OM mantra used in meditation
ON side of wicket where cricket batsman stands

OP style of abstract art
OR heraldic color gold
OS orifice/bone/ridge of sand (esker)
OW intj. expressing sudden pain
OX hoofed mammal/clumsy person

OY intj. expressing dismay
PA father
PE Hebrew letter
PI Greek letter/to jumble
QI vital life-sustaining energy force {OSPD4}

RE second tone of diatonic musical scale
SH intj. used to urge silence (shh)
SI seventh tone of diatonic musical scale (ti)
SO fifth tone of diatonic musical scale
TA thanks

TI seventh tone of diatonic musical scale
TO toward
UH intj. expressing hesitation
UM intj. expressing hesitation
UN one

UP to raise
US objective pronoun for "we"
UT musical tone in French solmization system
WE plural pronoun
WO woe

XI Greek letter
XU Vietnamese monetary unit
YA you
YE you
YO intj. used to call attention {OSPD3}

ZA pizza {OSPD4}

Exactly. From what I remember when playing Scrabble with my family, that is not a complete sample of the valid two letter words...

But then again, I'm sure one can use Google to find a larger list.

[jmcd]

I have the compact version with tiny print, a real treat, and read with the magnifying dome. I enjoy a book on the physical printed page.

[PKR]

I thought the "real' OED was (I don't remember the correct number) 11 volumes?

[rxmd]

"Remember the firemen are rarely necessary. The public stopped reading of its own accord." -- Fahrenheit 451


Note that people nowadays people read more than ever before, it's just that they do much of it online.

And they're not phasing out the OED, they're phasing out the printed edition.

And I wonder if the idea would be all that final anyway, because there is a sizeable target demographic that likes things old, traditional and tangible - possibly not a lot of people, but many of them quite wealthy. Producing printed "snapshot" editions every few years might be well worth it.

[Rogrund]

I thought the "real' OED was (I don't remember the correct number) 11 volumes?

The first edition of the OED, called A New English Dictionary on Historical Principles, was published in 1928 in ten volumes. In 1933, there was a one-volume supplement, and at this time the original dictionary was reprinted in twelve volumes and re-named the Oxford English Dictionary. A four-volume supplement was published between 1972 and 1986, and in 1989 there was an integrated Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition in twenty volumes. This is the current printed version of the OED.

[Sparrow]

Was it Plato who complained that books were ruining peoples memories?

[rxmd]

Was it Plato who complained that books were ruining peoples memories?

"And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." - Plato, Phaidros, 275.

On a related note, cultural pessimism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_pessimism#Traditional_versions) isn't what it used to be, either.

[photogdave]

"And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." - Plato, Phaidros, 275.

On a related note, cultural pessimism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_pessimism#Traditional_versions) isn't what it used to be, either.
Great quote - Plato was surely prescient. What he is describing is how people read DPReview and buy their camera gear accordingly!

[Sparrow]

"And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." - Plato, Phaidros, 275.

On a related note, cultural pessimism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_pessimism#Traditional_versions) isn't what it used to be, either.

Yep, that's the bit, it must have made an impression it's 30 years since I read it last.

There's some graffiti in Pompeii or Herculaneum that bemoans the "state of todays youths" ... well a bit more profane than that actually

[oftheherd]

Yep, that's the bit, it must have made an impression it's 30 years since I read it last.

There's some graffiti in Pompeii or Herculaneum that bemoans the "state of todays youths" ... well a bit more profane than that actually

Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?

[Gumby]

Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?

Didn't he say, "... those young wippersnappers just aren't as submissive as we were when I was a lad..."?

[Sparrow]

Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?

Probably, they went to the same school :D

[bigeye]

Although a bit suburban, the writing in the older editions of Encyclopaedia Britannica's is fantastic. I'm not sure of the year the wheels fell off (mine is a 1953 set), but if you can find an old set they are wonderful. They sell for pennies and are priceless... like old negatives.

We call my farmer friend's battered dictionary, "Cooper's Google".

-Charlie

[Rogrund]

Besides, a few volumes of the printed OED is perfect for flattening negatives. Couldn't do that with the online version! :)

[oftheherd]

Besides, a few volumes of the printed OED is perfect for flattening negatives. Couldn't do that with the online version! :)

Why didn't I think of that with my old Webster?

[JohnTF]

Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?

Not sure, he did not write it down. ;-)

Regards, John