View Full Version : Uncle Earl took them..check it out!
Pfreddee
07-31-2010, 06:19
Drop by The Online Photographer site, and read the article on the latest about who really took the Ansel Adams plates. I'll be it was Uncle Earl!:D
With best regards.
Pfreddee(Stephen)
emraphoto
07-31-2010, 06:42
another fine job by the mass media.
'Lost Adam's negatives worth 200 million' on every MSN, Yahoo, news site for 3-4 days straight. Not a single one calling any of it into question. folks should lose their job for it, instead they'll be typing the next headline... "Lost Adam's negatives a fake"!
Sensationalism sells, unfortunately.
Al Patterson
07-31-2010, 07:13
As I posted in the other thread, it is all just a sad story about a guy who just refuses to take the word of those who know Adams' work. He is just one of those individuals who just cannot be wrong.
He dismissed the opinion of Rondal Partridge http://newdeal.feri.org/ron/index.htm, son of Imogen Cunningham, apprentice to Dorothea Lange, and lab assistant to Adams.
This kind of populist thinking, "my opinion is as good as yours, no matter who you are," is perhaps a product of the internet and bloggers?
Who knows? But it will pass, hopefully the Adams heirs will have nothing more to do with it, and just let it die a natural death.
I doubt it is a product of the internet or bloggers. It is more likely that bloggers suffer from this type of delusion, and this stuff spreads faster over the internet.
But, these type of arrogant delusional people certainly pre-date the creation of the internet.
(Note to self: take some B&W stuff of 425 at Strasburg, and claim I found some "lost" O. Winston Link negs...) ;)
kossi008
07-31-2010, 09:42
'Lost Adam's negatives worth 200 million' on every MSN, Yahoo, news site for 3-4 days straight. Not a single one calling any of it into question. folks should lose their job for it, instead they'll be typing the next headline... "Lost Adam's negatives a fake"!
It's called productivity: why generate zero headlines when it can be two (or more)? :D
Roger Hicks
07-31-2010, 12:20
another fine job by the mass media.
'Lost Adam's negatives worth 200 million' on every MSN, Yahoo, news site for 3-4 days straight. Not a single one calling any of it into question. folks should lose their job for it, instead they'll be typing the next headline... "Lost Adam's negatives a fake"!
It's celebrity news, not news news. It doesn't have to have any substance: it's pure entertainment. Did anyone actually read it under the assumption that it was of any importance whatsoever? At least it's more interesting than another Hollywood marriage or divorce. Why should anyone lose their job?
Cheers,
R.
Sure Roger, be rational about it why don't you!
;)
Roger Hicks
07-31-2010, 12:39
Well sadly, yes Matthew Adams for one. http://theanseladamsgallery.blogspot.com/
Dear Fred,
There's certainly some pompous pseudo-legalism in there. I love this idea:
It is my opinion that with an artist of the stature of Ansel Adams, the burden of proof is on Mr. Norsigian and his team, and that the level of proof should be at a minimum “certainty”.
Certainty as a minimum. What is beyond certainty? People are convicted of crimes on the basis of their guilt being 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Then again, I've always said that for some people, the Zone System is a religion, which the religious sometimes say is beyond certainty. This is in defiance of logic, but hey, so's religion. BELIEF is all you need.
On the other had, put yourself in M. Adams's shoes. How else could he have attempted to refute Norsigian's arguments, save by answering them point by point? It is however a pity that he is not better at putting his thoughts into English. Or even Californian.
Cheers,
R.
35mmdelux
07-31-2010, 13:02
Repeat: The only piece of art worth $200MM is a Rembrandt or Van Gogh. Maybe the Greek Parthenon so we can rebuild it in Las Vegas.
mathomas
07-31-2010, 13:50
I'm not taking any sides in this. I will say that it reminds me somewhat of the movie "Who the #$&% is Jackson Pollock?". It's a pretty interesting documentary about a possible Pollock original that the art world just can't/won't accept as such, apparently because it wasn't found by the "right person".
I'm not saying at all that the situations are identical (or even similar), only that I was reminded of the flick. Check it out.
In America, bloggers are the only media that exists, the rest is corporate propaganda.
Are you consumer, or are you a citizen?
In America, bloggers are the only media that exists, the rest is corporate propaganda.
Are you consumer, or are you a citizen?
I am a skeptic.
moderator edit required
I do truly believe that, it's evident. Journalistic ass kissing of corporate interest is nearly universal, particularly regarding politics, finance and entertainment. Nearly all news organizations, movie studios, and magazine publishers are owned by large multinationals who also own financial, energy, medical, pharma, and war materiel companies. Nearly every editorial in a 'paper of record' relies on misrepresentations to serve these interests.
Lol, thanks. Have some pie.
:D
moderator edit: refers to previous edited post
Perhaps this will help some.
"People spill a lot of ink on complex explanations for the profound flaws of the establishment media, but often, the proximate cause is simply the pure denseness of media stars (though they are chosen to be media stars by the corporations that own them because of, not despite, this denseness, which leads back to the more complex questions about what establishment media outlets are and the functions they intend to fulfill)."
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/07/24/anonymity/index.html
Al Patterson
07-31-2010, 18:51
I do truly believe that, it's evident. Journalistic ass kissing of corporate interest is nearly universal, particularly regarding politics, finance and entertainment. Nearly all news organizations, movie studios, and magazine publishers are owned by large multinationals who also own financial, energy, medical, pharma, and war materiel companies. Nearly every editorial in a 'paper of record' relies on misrepresentations to serve these interests.
And this is on topic how?
You can play, I'm going to sleep until the mods show up with your meds....
emraphoto
07-31-2010, 19:27
It's celebrity news, not news news. It doesn't have to have any substance: it's pure entertainment. Did anyone actually read it under the assumption that it was of any importance whatsoever? At least it's more interesting than another Hollywood marriage or divorce. Why should anyone lose their job?
Cheers,
R.
well Roger, i naively assume that one can't just ring up MSNBC and feed them some nonsense about finding John Voight's car on craigslist and have it presented as breaking news 30 minutes later.
i suppose you are right, entertainment it is. sort of like the whole 'Victory' thing on the the Abraham Lincoln.
(insert best breaking news sound here) 'this just in, the whole zombie craze is over'!
reply to photomoof: That is a good article, very absorbing. I wish they would have shown “La Bella Principessa” though, I would have liked to have seen it...
antiquark
07-31-2010, 20:52
All over the web.
http://www.dogonews.com/2009/10/26/new-da-vinci-painting-pops-out-of-wood-works Hoax! Looks nothing like any of Lenny's other paintings or drawings.
Reply to photomoof: Wow thanks! It's crazy, that doesn't look anything like Da Vinci to me, the hair is too detailed, the whole thing very stiff and pedantic. Of course I already know if it is or not, but antiquark and the lady in the article are exactly right, it just doesn't look like a Leonardo. Thanks again, I might have gone through the rest of my life wondering what it looked like!
Roger Hicks
08-01-2010, 04:17
Old saying: "A lie can run around the world before the truth has gots its boots on."
In a celebrity-obsessed culture, the lie (in the gutter media) may have to be refuted or it will become the accepted truth. Generally, the serious media (such as Private Eye in the UK, but also the BBC, Torygraph and Guradian) will only mention the fluff in passing, and will likewise mention the debunking of it later.
Some bloggers, on the other hand, will cheerfully go on supporting anything, long after it has been discredited. Holocaust denial? Faked moon landings? No problem. Same here. It's clearly an Anselite Zonie conspiracy to suppress the TRUTH about these pictures. Probably the Jews, Freemasons, Catholics, Commies and (latest hate figure for the brain-dead) BP are in on the conspiracy too! Oh: and let's not forget the Tea Party, who blame it all on the Democrats.
Some people, it seems, read only the celebrity pages or the tinfoil-helmet pages. At least the latter are sometimes entertaining. ELVIS SHOT KENNEDY. Or was it KENNEDY POISONED ELVIS? Ah, who cares. Print 'em both, along with the 'evidence'.
Cheers,
R.
Brian Sweeney
08-01-2010, 04:22
I saw Elvis.
And he saw my Vivitar 283.
John Lawrence
08-01-2010, 06:47
As I posted in the other thread, it is all just a sad story about a guy who just refuses to take the word of those who know Adams' work. He is just one of those individuals who just cannot be wrong.
He dismissed the opinion of Rondal Partridge http://newdeal.feri.org/ron/index.htm, son of Imogen Cunningham, apprentice to Dorothea Lange, and lab assistant to Adams.
This kind of populist thinking, "my opinion is as good as yours, no matter who you are," is perhaps a product of the internet and bloggers?
Who knows? But it will pass, hopefully the Adams heirs will have nothing more to do with it, and just let it die a natural death.
I've often thought that the greater the (perceived) value of an item, the more intractable the opinion of the owner.
John
Some bloggers, on the other hand, will cheerfully go on supporting anything, long after it has been discredited. Holocaust denial? Faked moon landings? No problem. Same here. It's clearly an Anselite Zonie conspiracy to suppress the TRUTH about these pictures. Probably the Jews, Freemasons, Catholics, Commies and (latest hate figure for the brain-dead) BP are in on the conspiracy too! Oh: and let's not forget the Tea Party, who blame it all on the Democrats.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers Roger,
I've seen a lot of blogs. Real political blogs such as Greenwald's and many others are generally kept quite honest by their readers, as those with differing views are free to post in comments where the meat of the issues gets discussed. If comments aren't allowed, as in many mainstream opinion pieces and whatnot, nobody reads them because they are not accountable to their readers. It's been a long while since I've come across the kind of conspiracy theories you describe other than, as the Salon article pointed out, in the mainstream media.
We have a situation in the US where there are many, many journalists, so the ones who get paid are the ones who have access. The ones who have access don't want to lose it.
There are also these people.
http://www.thenation.com/article/media-lobbying-complex
Which I was linked to via a blog. It's hard to describe what it's like here to someone in Europe.
Roger Hicks
08-01-2010, 13:19
It's hard to describe what it's like here to someone in Europe.
Fair enough. When I lived in California I used to listen to the BBC on short-wave radio (pre-internet days) in order to get some international news. As Frances said - and she's American - it was a bit like living in a totalitarian regime where the news was either suppressed or 'managed'.
Our all-time favourte was in the LA Times (which we took every day) at the time of the Bush-Gorbachev summit:
"In Malta, far from the crossroads of world history..."
Well, yes, if you have the attention span of a gnat and no historical knowledge prior to about 1980,
Cheers,
R.
Fair enough. When I lived in California I used to listen to the BBC on short-wave radio (pre-internet days) in order to get some international news. As Frances said - and she's American - it was a bit like living in a totalitarian regime where the news was either suppressed or 'managed'.
Cheers,
R.
The BBC is great, I listen to it on the internet sometimes. CNN used to have 'CNN International' on overnight here, which I gather is their European programming. Makes sense, as it's daytime over there so the news is truly '24 hours'. I used to watch it as it contained actual world news as opposed to simply a bunch of arguing.
They stopped doing that when we began these wars. They just replay their US daytime programming at night, now.
Unfortunate.
Cheers.
Repeat: The only piece of art worth $200MM is a Rembrandt or Van Gogh. Maybe the Greek Parthenon so we can rebuild it in Las Vegas.
I can see you're not familiar with the work of Ron Galella. A true "artist behind the lens". p.
LeicaFoReVer
08-01-2010, 16:34
whoever took those photos, they are still nice photos. Is the age correct at least?
whoever took those photos, they are still nice photos. Is the age correct at least?
I agree. Earl had a couple of nice ones in the batch I saw in the news. As for age. They were glass plates. Figuring he would have used dry plates if they were around.. have a look and tell me what you think..
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/corp/historyOfKodak/chronology.jhtml?pq-path=2217/2687/2695
p.
LeicaFoReVer
08-01-2010, 17:35
If the age is correct, those are great images for that age...Respect :)
Eastman was another great man. I visited his museum in rochester and it is the history...That guy controlled what the photography is at his time...
If the age is correct, those are great images for that age...Respect :)
Eastman was another great man. I visited his museum in rochester and it is the history...That guy controlled what the photography is at his time...
I kinda got the idea that "Uncle Earl's" photos might predate the work of AA. I worked for a company that Mr. Adams did business with. He would show up in his Ford sedan with his personal California "A A" license plates. Pretty funny. I some how don't think Ansel used a lot of glass plates. I think Earl may have been around before Ansel..ya never know.. I can see it now, Earl to Ansel: Kid be sure to level the bed and square the standards on that camera before ya start fooling around with the back..or you're gonna have to start all over again..and you'll miss the good light..p.
charjohncarter
08-02-2010, 10:15
John Sexton's (I think he was a master printer for Ansel Adams) latest newsletter has his views on these glass negatives. He hasn't archived it to his website yet but it is an interesting read. I don't feel right posting it here without his permission. But basically in says there is not one 'photographic historian or scholar' on the panel of experts that examined these negatives, and that there are always holder scratches on old glass negatives which he or anyones else that knows anything about Ansel Adams' negatives could detect.
AND back to the thread, he does mention 'Uncle Earl' in his newsletter.
In this digital age where everything electronically published is up for grabs, nothing surprises me. I fight this battle constantly. The Kinder-Digi have grown up thinking that everything is free. And that a photo is worth $0.75, because that's what they cost on Flicker. Years ago I watched, over the period of a couple of years, a guy make glass plate copies of Edward Curtis photos. I didn't know what was going on until I had a conversation with him at the end of his production. His most popular image was Chief Joseph. He made many of these . I think they must have been 11 x14 glass plates. He sold this stuff. He made a lot of money and had no problem cheating the public. The world is so full of phony software, phony PhD degrees, I could go on. I listened to an interview with an "author" the other day.. only to find, (the interviewee divulged the info) that she was not the author.. "I'm not the author - I blog about the author" the blogger had become the author via a leveraged blog output. The interview went on with this women, who had never spoken to the author of said book, speaking for him. Too crazy for any more words. It's about money and fame. If you can't create it, steal it. And stealing it has become "acceptable" in today's new-age world.
I read the piece. The first thing that comes to mind is MIT. At MIT students entering a class room or hall for an exam enter with no calculator, no pencil, no paper.. They are provided with a formulary, paper and a pencil. They have what they need to pass the exam. Little chance of storing answers in a calculator or sending an answer across the room to another student's calculator via IR. The Kinder-Digi have actually scolded me for not having images on the web they want to use. I had one kid take me to task for not "blogging" my knowledge of the behavior of popular sensors used in high end cameras. I was told I had an unfair advantage. I told this kid to do some reading and get up to speed.. he said why should I do that when I can get it from you. i have to be careful not to treat them like the little sociopathic robots they are. It's a shame. These kids are all in their 30s and in business. It's funny, the younger ones, the ones in their early 20s are fairly normal. They have the same experience with this batch of 25-35 year olds. These kids are spoiled, demanding, impolite, and want money and fame ASAP.
charjohncarter
08-02-2010, 17:23
I read the piece. no calculator, no pencil, no paper.. They are provided with a formulary, paper and a pencil. They have what they need to pass the exam.
That's the way I took exams, and I don't understand why profs do not do it more. The exams are so much more easy to write that way. But to get back to the thread, I had a patient (a Greek immigrant) once whose daughter (half Greek) complained to me that her father wouldn't let her watch TV, he said in heavily accented English, 'Read a Book.' The point is use a light meter.
I think the problem with a lot of these kids is television, schools that can't keep good teachers and parents that are too busy making $$ to deal with their kids. I guess a lot of the parents are as bad as the kids. A pal of mine, another photographer complained that with the newer digital cameras it was hard to take a bad picture. I don't agree, but i told him the camera still had to be pointed in an interesting place to produce a good photo. The processor in the camera won't do that for you. I think that is one of the barriers some of these kids have.. talent.
charjohncarter
08-02-2010, 19:22
A pal of mine, another photographer complained that with the newer digital cameras it was hard to take a bad picture.
Maybe yes on the exposure side, but really all it does is make it easy overall to take a less than mediocre picture. (no DOF control, no shutter speed adjustment for effect, no EI for back light, etc.) And if you don't learn these disciplines you will never became an accomplished photographer. So when you are 50 years old and have basically been shooting P&S (and/or doing the latest PS trick) with an SLR or a DSLR and nobody wants your services any more because you are no longer hip. Well, you will go to work somewhere else and hope you can make it to retirement in a secure job.
We were talking about professional photographers. Kinder-Digi with $20K in camera gear. These are generally somewhat computer savvy people who have become photographers. They are the product of the local art schools. Most have never used a film camera professionally if at all.. maybe when they were in high school. They have also, never worked in any format but 35mm digital. If faced with a Phase One they couldn't play. I've been through this bit before: for the most part they are lazy. There is a lot of "move over - this is our turf now" attitude going on. They usually rent their lighting equipment as they can't afford it. They don't understand large flash generators well, so they higher assistants who have some experience with the equipment. Many famous photographers have made it working this way. These kids aren't in that category yet. Mom and dad likely paid for the digital gear. The ones who have earned the money for their gear are usually a better group. Don't get me wrong, there are some younger photographers doing really good work. Look at Brad Trent's stuff; mostly if not all, digital.
My knowledge is old and confined to Dept. 6, 8 & 18, so got me.
This is a link to a PDF
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CCcQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmit.dspace.org%2Fbitstream%2Fhand le%2F1721.1%2F36380%2F1-264JFall-2002%2FNR%2Frdonlyres%2FCivil-and-Environmental-Engineering%2F1-264JDatabase--Internet--and-Systems-Integration-TechnologiesFall2002%2FDA9CD438-A06A-41B7-90F6-906364EE0C35%2F0%2FFinal_exam_F2001v2.pdf&rct=j&q=mit%20exam%20guidelines&ei=e0xYTPfWBZH6sAPy8KiDCw&usg=AFQjCNEIyS9Bbd3R5H0JtZJBqEic5uvvcg
antiquark
08-03-2010, 10:13
A few years ago, some engineering courses at the U of Manitoba were "open book." You could bring all your textbooks, all your notes, whatever you want.
Still, some people failed the tests. If you don't know the material, there's no way you'll learn in the couple of hours you're given to write the test.
The great thing about "open book" tests is that it solves the problem of cheating. Let 'em cheat, if you don't know the stuff it won't help!
To make it real-world-like, they should allow internet access too. I'd want my doctor to be checking facts and procedures in books and on-line, rather than relying only on memory in order to arrive at a diagnosis.
jan normandale
08-03-2010, 11:25
amazing thread... the entire waterfront is covered.
A few years ago, some engineering courses at the U of Manitoba were "open book." You could bring all your textbooks, all your notes, whatever you want.
Still, some people failed the tests. If you don't know the material, there's no way you'll learn in the couple of hours you're given to write the test.
The great thing about "open book" tests is that it solves the problem of cheating. Let 'em cheat, if you don't know the stuff it won't help!
I agree anti Hadron. The idea is to produce a grad with skills. Cheating doesn't impart the course work. I didn't know about the IR calculator communication until a couple of years ago. I guess both HP and TI will link.
Back to the photos.. I hope we see a site selling Uncle Earl's pictures at a reasonable price. I would buy one if the cost was reasonable. The Valley doesn't look like that any longer.
Well professors get lazy (or just bored), and want simple exams, fast to grade -- even at the best schools. Just proof of attendance.
When I had lectures with 100+ students I admit scrumming to it myself, wading though exams is tiring if they are just memory exercises.
Years ago I had two lectures with 400+ students. The Prof. was there, but better seen on a monitor. The arm rests had a 10 key pad for taking exams. They weren't used during my time.
I wonder if all this fuss is complementary to that Uncle Earl... I mean, the first time I read about the news it said that the photos were like trial runs of Ansel Adams or something like that.
nevermind... I'm just thinking out aloud... "my photo's are like Ansel Adams' trial photos, what are yours like?":D
oh and about that side topic you were talking about:
I don't think the younger generations are really that lacking "up there" compared to the older generations. I do agree that there's an intellectual decadence but it's not really that much. It's just that the saturation of everything is blowing it out of proportions.
For example, the DSLR camera market is saturated. What do you get? A whole lot of people who don't have deep understanding of what they have and what they're doing! And because there's so many of them, they shape culture!
From the point of view of photography, saturate the SLR market of 1960's. Sell a whole lot of people Nikon F's... I bet you'd see the same proportional number of craps taken.;)
Let me add a couple of varibles.. My observations: They have almost no mechanical skills, no understanding of electronics (didn't take physics in HS, or math), throw money at a reoccuring problem, rather than look for understanding and a lasting solution. They resent someone who is not in there generation, understanding computers, PS, as well or better than they do. When I was a kid, I had jobs all summer long and on weekends when in school. These kids, not all, but most that I delt with, never worked at anything before going into business. Some, the bright ones, assist for a decent photographer. Most think the current pros are on the way out, so it's not worth the time. Then when you see one of these kids land a big account (one, a year or so ago got $30K for a one day shoot for Visa), they think they all can do it. Throw that into the equation and grind it out. I have hope, as I said, one of the young ones really was on top of the game. And he was 23 or so. p.
These kids are all from the local art schools. Very expensive.. one is the same cost as Stanford Univ. And, no Art History. Only knowledge of current, living photographers, in their age group...
Well you kids have fun arguing about CNN, Salon, and the National Enquirer, vs. bloggers.
Here is an interesting article on art experts from one of the older bless-fully [bliss-fully] biased old tabloids.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/07/12/100712fa_fact_grann?currentPage=all
Here's an update on Biro and Co.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-07-13/biggest-art-forgeries-ever/
Roger Hicks
08-04-2010, 08:11
Let me add a couple of varibles.. My observations: They have almost no mechanical skills, no understanding of electronics (didn't take physics in HS, or math), throw money at a reoccuring problem, rather than look for understanding and a lasting solution. They resent someone who is not in there generation, understanding computers, PS, as well or better than they do. When I was a kid, I had jobs all summer long and on weekends when in school. These kids, not all, but most that I delt with, never worked at anything before going into business. Some, the bright ones, assist for a decent photographer. Most think the current pros are on the way out, so it's not worth the time. Then when you see one of these kids land a big account (one, a year or so ago got $30K for a one day shoot for Visa), they think they all can do it. Throw that into the equation and grind it out. I have hope, as I said, one of the young ones really was on top of the game. And he was 23 or so. p.
These kids are all from the local art schools. Very expensive.. one is the same cost as Stanford Univ. And, no Art History. Only knowledge of current, living photographers, in their age group...
This isn't 'stupid 2010 kids'. This is 'stupid, arrogant rich kids'. They've been around a VERY long time.
Cheers,
R.
This isn't 'stupid 2010 kids'. This is 'stupid, arrogant rich kids'. They've been around a VERY long time.
Cheers,
R.
Hi Roger; You may be correct. I don't know what's going on outside this community. I've just never seen this before in the photo business. In the past all rich kids became bankers or brokers (family connections) or invested in land. Maybe this group couldn't cut business school, and were sent off to "art school" so mom and dad could tell the neighbors they were in school.
p.
John Lawrence
08-04-2010, 10:37
I've just never seen this before in the photo business.
You should see what's happening where I live in the UK. All the rich kids, of which there seem to be an abundance, are undertaking commercial work gratis, and in some cases getting mommy or daddy to pay the company to let them do the job.
John
Roger Hicks
08-04-2010, 11:34
Hi Roger; You may be correct. I don't know what's going on outside this community. I've just never seen this before in the photo business. In the past all rich kids became bankers or brokers (family connections) or invested in land. Maybe this group couldn't cut business school, and were sent off to "art school" so mom and dad could tell the neighbors they were in school.
p.
I'm not sure it's easier to get into art school than business school. REALLY rich kids don't go to either: they read something "int'resting" at university, but the main reason for going there is to make contacts for later life, or to keep up with the kids you were at school with. They always choose good 'social' universities, such as Bristol in the UK or USC in the USA, if they can't get into Oxford, Cambridge or the Ivy League, but they seldom choose the more intellectually demanding courses at any of those excellent institutions.
Overall, I've met more intelligent, interesting art school graduates than business school graduates. Of course a lot depends on your definitions of 'intelligent' and 'interesting'. And of 'rich', come to that: there's a difference between 'never having to work for a living' and 'expecting mummy and daddy to look after you until you're in your 30s.'
Cheers,
R.
jan normandale
08-06-2010, 06:43
This isn't 'stupid 2010 kids'. This is 'stupid, arrogant rich kids'. They've been around a VERY long time.
Cheers,
R.
Roger, every once in a while.... LMAO... touche'
Hi Ian; Thought you might enjoy this. It's from a current Rff thread
I'm of that new breed of photographer who's only ever used digital - never used film in my life, never will. I can't see a single advantage to film - it's expensive, slow, inconvenient and smelly. To me, using film would be like using, say, old wax cylinders to listen to music!
RichC RFF 8-5-10
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