View Full Version : Quick Chemical Question
It's almost alliteration huh.. :D
I can't, for the life of me, remember; is it wash; hypo; wash; photoflo or wash; photoflo; hypo; wash ?
I'm going to dev some Tmax 3200 (@1600) this evening and I haven't dev'd anything in about a year and change so I'm just looking for a quick refresher on the tail end of the process.
gracias,
Dave :)
back alley
07-22-2005, 05:45
dev
rinse
stop
fix
rinse
orbit (optional)
wash
photoflo
Hi Dave - I go like this:
Dev
Stop
Fix
Rinse once
Hypo Wash
Rinse
Photoflo
I must be odd but I never stop before fixing. My fixer is acidic and it is so cheap anyway.
Hi Dave - I go like this:
Dev
Stop
Fix
Rinse once
Hypo Wash
Rinse
Photoflo
Bingo.. that's how I remember doing it.
Thanks :)
Dave
dev
rinse
stop
fix
rinse
orbit (optional)
wash
photoflo
Just out of curiousity, why rinse after the dev?
Ever since I've been dev'ing (and this goes back 28 years ago.. :D ) I've never been told to rinse after the dev. Just curious as to what this does to the process other than to "help" wash any residual dev off of the emulsion?
curious, :confused:
Dave
It seems to me, if you're going to use an actual stop bath (rather than water), it's actually counter-productive to use a water rinse first.
A stop bath is usually used to immediately stop development. An alternative to that is water, which doesn't stop as fast and can lead to a bit more development still going on until all the dev has been washed out (which can be a good thing, in some cases). So using the water rinse first makes the point of stop moot.
Unless you just want to be absolutely certain there isn't any active developer left on the film before fixing, to preserve fixer life.
allan
Honu-Hugger
07-22-2005, 06:19
It seems to me, if you're going to use an actual stop bath (rather than water), it's actually counter-productive to use a water rinse first.
A stop bath is usually used to immediately stop development. An alternative to that is water, which doesn't stop as fast and can lead to a bit more development still going on until all the dev has been washed out (which can be a good thing, in some cases). So using the water rinse first makes the point of stop moot.
Unless you just want to be absolutely certain there isn't any active developer left on the film before fixing, to preserve fixer life.
allan
This has been my understanding as well, but regardless of method consistency is most important for repeatable results. The few people I know that water rinse as stop do not also use a stop bath. Between Hypo clear and final rinse I use a 1:30 selenium soak for six minutes -- we seem to have our peculiarities when it comes to development.
Another reason why some people use water instead of stop-bath is that with certain very active developers, stop bath can lead to pinholes in the emulsion (from bubbling carbonate).
BTW, I've never used any kind of hypo clearing agent with film (an neither with RC paper) - this is really overkill, it is only necessary with FB paper.
Oh, and I don't use photoflo either, demineralized water is my choice - won't leave water marks, and neither photoflo marks (from using too much - and with wetting agents, already very little is too much).
Roman
Well, HCA can help get rid of the anti-halation layer, if it's survived the fix and all the rinses prior. I've had HCA come out pink before, espcially with Delta 100. Considering the cost and the added 1-3 minutes (including rinses), it's a cheap bit of insurance.
allan
titrisol
07-22-2005, 07:16
Sulfite bath (HCA) can help reducing the wash time if you do a long wash.
If you use the GEVAERT/AGFA/ILFORD method of 5 changes of water in the tank it is not necesary.
The reason kayien points out is true, if your film is coming out pink (TMAX/DELTA) or blue (EFKE/FOMA) a sulfite bath helps clearing this out.
I prefer to stop with water as well, specially with eastern wuropean films that have a softer emulsion. 3 quick changes of water and done.
back alley
07-22-2005, 07:20
actually, i don't use stop bath. i just rinse and then fix.
not sure why i put stop in there...
joe
Dev
quick rinse
fix
wash (10 minutes or more in plastic container with holes in the bottom (fixer is heavier than water).
photo flo
In developing several thousand rolls of film I've never used stop or hypo clear. I have negatives 40 years old that show no signs of deterioation.
You should at least rinse in water before going to fixed because the fixer is going to get contaminated a lot faster if you don't--plus the dev hitting the fix might do strange thins to the emulsion.
BTW: keep all chemicals close to each other temperature-wise. If you develop at 68 degrees then dump the film into water or fix a lot hotter of colder, it's gonna do bad things to the negs.
i always do a 1 minute rinse before development with both tank and tray developing.
my procedure :
rinse 1:00
develop ~varies
stop
fix
rinse 1:00
rinse 2:00
Hypo 2:00
water rinse 5:00
photoflo 1:00
hang dry.
i just found the forum after a quick web search to find information about a yashica mg-1 i found at the local thrift for $1.99! Of course the battery cost me $10!
-tp
back alley
07-22-2005, 09:10
i like hypo clear for the shorter wash times.
Little Prince
07-22-2005, 09:35
I use very little rinse steps compared to most of the above. What I do is:
Dev
Stop
Fix
Hypo
Rinse (long)
Photoflo
Seems to work, but I could be missing something and not know it. Anyway this was the way I was taught to do it.
Little Prince
07-22-2005, 09:38
Of course, the rinse is 5 min mostly, but when I have time and patience, I let it go on for 10. That can't hurt can it?
titrisol
07-22-2005, 10:05
JFYI Hypo is the same as Fixer. (hyposulfite = thiuosulfate)
Hypo-Clearing is a completely different substance and we need to find a better way to express what it is.
Hypo-clearing is sulfite solution.
JFYI Hypo is the same as Fixer. (hyposulfite = thiuosulfate)
Hypo-Clearing is a completely different substance and we need to find a better way to express what it is.
Hypo-clearing is sulfite solution.
ya.. my bad :)
I meant hypo-clearing.. I just get so used to seeing hypo.. now I'm going to have to check the package at home before I do anything this evening.. :D
Cheers
Dave
I once accidentally substituted hypo clear with mouthwash. My negs came out okay and they were minty fresh!
On some films I like to use a water bath rather than a stop bath. I had instances where the suden change from alkalin to acid can cause gas bubles to form in the gelatin of the emulsion and cause little pin hole eruptions. I've particularly seen this on thin neopan. Generally I shoot ilford films now and use a mild 3% acetic acid bath for about thirty seconds to a minute. This helps stop developement immediately and extends the fixer life. For printing I always use a stop. I don't use indicator but always mix a 3-5% solution form glacial acetic acid. Be careful it produces extremely strom vapor in the concentrated form. Stains can happen going from developer to fix without a stop.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045
FS: Like new Imacon 343 with 2 custom flex frames and Epson 1680 pro scanner.
www.x-rayarts.com
I once accidentally substituted hypo clear with mouthwash. My negs came out okay and they were minty fresh!
Yeah, but how did your breath smell?
oftheherd
07-27-2005, 07:16
I never did it more than once or twice for experimentation (no patience), but what I remember reading about 30 years ago, in books and magazines, was that some preferred a rinse before development, and after development. I don't remember now if that was to prevent shock to the film of the sudden introduction of the developer, or for slow filling of tanks, or both. I also don't remember if that was with all b/w film or only certain emulsions. I think I remember that those who advocated it did it with all b/w emulsions. My recollection is that is wasn't that popular except for a small group of people to whom it was almost a religious belief. The idea was that the rinse before and after was to be for the same time, as that allowed the developer's time to replace the first rinse to be the same as it was itself replaced. That meant your time in the developer would be what you wanted it to be. I always wondered if the idea didn't come from developing pack film, where if you got the film stuck in water, you could just wait a while longer to easily separate it with no worry about time in the developer. Not that I ever got any pack film stuck you understand. ;-)
I never had a problem not using a rinse between development and stop bath. I did use stop bath before hypo, whether film or paper. I always reused my hypo and that helped extend the life. Like Roman, I almost never used hypo clear on film, and seldom on paper, just good long rinses.
I too use just a water rinse and no stop bath before fixing
And I combine selenium toner with the hypo-clear bath... both for permanence and to increase density a trifle.
It's almost alliteration huh.. :D
Actually, it's assonance but who's picking nits?
derevaun
07-28-2005, 19:19
I'm a relative newbie at home devving, and a total cheapskate too. The cheaper films I use tend to have softer emulsions, and I read on one of these boards that more time in water makes the emulsion softer. But my routine is:
water (one minute) to clear AH layer
developer
quick water rinse to preserve fixer
hardening fixer
water (martini shake at first) for one minute
HCA for one minute
distilled water for 30"
Photoflow for 30"
dry
Maybe I can do without the first water bath if the HCA takes care of it?
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