Techniques for shooting (ultra) wide-angles [Archive]

wiedo

04-28-2010, 10:16

I bought a CV 15mm today for my Leica CL and although I really love the wide-angle reach, i really hate the over the top barrel distortion (fisheye look).

So do you guys have techniques to keep the barrel distortion as low as possible? Or do you have other tips when using such a wide angle lens (i'm used to 40mm)?

ruby.monkey

04-28-2010, 10:28

Do you mean perspective distortion? Because I can't say I've ever noticed much - if any - barrel distortion from either the 15mm or 12mm Heliar.

All I can really suggest is to keep the subject centred and the camera level. People out to the edges will end up looking *very* weird.

Bruin

04-28-2010, 10:38

Yeah, the 15mm Heliar has little barrel distortion - straight lines near the edges of the frame are rendered straight! It has a ton of perspective distortion, being an ultrawide lens... things look stretched out anywhere but the center of the frame. Try to get closer, keep the horizon level, and just practice a lot.

You might get along better with a 21mm or 25mm... but maybe you'll warm up to the 15mm after some more time with it.

3js

04-28-2010, 10:57

Just don´t tilt your camera and get very close to your subject, that should do the trick. Takes alittle time though.

kxl

04-28-2010, 11:05

One thing I like to do with ultra-wides is to show a near/far relationship between a subject at 5-10 feet (centered so it does not look distorted) and a distant background. Some examples at http://kalahi.net/silver-city/

charjohncarter

04-28-2010, 11:10

Even with a 20mm there is some craziness. Try for level shots. This is my 20mm and you would not recognize this pool from the picture:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4331023043_3e3606dd25.jpg

LeicaFoReVer

04-28-2010, 13:03

how about framing with the viewfinder? I think as you get closer paralax error is increasing?

ferider

04-28-2010, 13:16

The 15mm Heliar has practically no distortion. If you have issues with the perspective, maybe try something longer ? Sorry to sound trivial, but ultra-wides are like super-longs, usable for special purpose only, IMO.

sojournerphoto

04-28-2010, 13:37

Lean forwards

Arjay

04-28-2010, 14:16

Good levelling is the secret for naturally looking 15mm Heliar shots. The lens produces severe perspective distortion if you use it without a levelling device, but virtually zero barrel distortion.

There are two ways to obtain pictures w/o perspective distortion:
Use a spirit level during shooting like the CV level or an electronic levelling device like the Seculine Action Level Cross to level the camera when shooting, and make sure that the film/sensor plane is parallel to the plane of your main photo subject (e.g. a building front), or
use Photoshop or PTLens to do perspective correction during digital post-processing (this can be tricky, but it is feasible, albeit at the price of reduced image resolution).BTW, the CV 15mm finder produces heavy barrel distortion. I wonder if there is an alternative to this finder, because the CV finder's barrel distortion makes framing a matter of luck.

umcelinho

04-28-2010, 14:52

the heliars have almost no barrel distortion. it is pretty sweet! what you do have to consider is that the 15 vignettes quite a bit @ 4.5, so if the sun is up try stopping down, it helps quite a bit. also, which is the hardest imho, is to keep the camera properly aligned with the horizon or any other vertical/horizontal reference. it can look a bit weird if too skewed.

the 15mm is really nice to use. you'll have a good time with it, I hope :)

Dave Wilkinson

04-28-2010, 15:13

As stated previously - keep 'em level, and for some situations - invaluable!
Dave.http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/4555183058_50af38d52f.jpg

sojournerphoto

04-28-2010, 15:18

As stated previously - keep 'em level, and for some situations - invaluable!
Dave.http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/4555183058_50af38d52f.jpg

Dave, a lovely picture. Where is it?

Mike

ferider

04-28-2010, 16:20

Shown these before. All taken with the 15:

http://ferider.smugmug.com/Travel/Italy/2005/tuscany-45/48878761_ga7cH-L-1.jpg

http://ferider.smugmug.com/Travel/Italy/2005/tuscany-122/48878752_mVJ82-L-1.jpg

http://ferider.smugmug.com/Travel/Italy/2005/tuscany-55/48878763_f37eB-L-1.jpg

People look weird, but only due to perspective. It's all about the lines, staying horizontal and keep your fingers out of the photo.

These days I don't do wider than 28mm. Ultra-wides are very fun and addictive, but in the end most ultra-wide shots look like lens tests to me.

Roland.

Leigh Youdale

04-28-2010, 18:30

I have the 15 but use the 25 much more as a general purpose wide. When I do use the 15 I've found you need to keep it as level as possible in all planes. Tilt it up, down or sideways and you're going to start getting the effects you complain about. There are several swanky levelling aids around but I just bought a cheap little circular bubble gauge from the local hardware store for levelling fridges which I put on the top plate of the Bessa (easiest if on a tripod!) and centre the bubble as best I can. Works for me! If it slips off, use a little bit of Blutack.
Not only fingers - keep your feet out of the frame too if you're using it in portrait format!

wiedo

04-28-2010, 23:44

Thanks for the tips everyone, can't wait till i can experiment with this lens. I'll try to level the camera, without a bubble level, first. If that doesn't work i'll buy some leveling device.

Maybe the 15mm is a littlebit too much for me, but I think it'll be fun to use.. You guys are posting great results with it. If it's too short i could always sell it and buy the 21, 25 or 28mm (depending on my experience with the wide-angle effect).

I heard you could portrait with it too.. do you have some experience with it? I think it's keeping everything level and the face in the center (1,5m-3m distance)?

chris7521

04-29-2010, 00:07

nephilim

04-29-2010, 00:27

Shown these before. All taken with the 15:

http://ferider.smugmug.com/Travel/Italy/2005/tuscany-55/48878763_f37eB-L-1.jpg

Roland, this is a lovely place! Where is it?

Waiting for this lens, too. I love the 14-24 on the Nikon D700 and miss the wide end on my Leica ;-)

Torsten

Arjay

04-29-2010, 00:51

I don't think you will need a level. Your sense of level is sufficient unless you are seriously level deficient:D It's not all that hard to keep the camera level enough to prevent excessive distortion. I love the CV15!
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=90215
Each to his own. I've been taking photos for about 50 years now, and I haven't (yet) developed any mental deficiencies, but the crappy, distortion-ridden CV finder makes using some kind of levelling device a must to me.

Just looking through the finder does not help in this respect. This finder certainly is not helpful in determining whether specific lines in the finder's FOV are truly parallel and/ or vertical/horizontal.

Sparrow

04-29-2010, 01:32

Dave Wilkinson

04-29-2010, 01:45

Dave, a lovely picture. Where is it?

Mike Thanks Mike - it's in the church yard at Pickering (Nth. Yorks.)...I was trying Fomapan 100 in that Rodinal - that you so kindly passed to me.
Dave.

Sparrow

04-29-2010, 01:48

and another ...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3205/2287564175_9b6047302c_b.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3205/2287564175_9b6047302c_b.jpg)

radi(c)al_cam

04-29-2010, 02:33

Dear wiedo,

Good levelling is the secret for naturally looking 15mm Heliar shots. The lens produces severe perspective distortion if you use it without a levelling device, but virtually zero barrel distortion.

There are two ways to obtain pictures w/o perspective distortion:
Use a spirit level during shooting like the CV level or an electronic levelling device like the Seculine Action Level Cross to level the camera when shooting, and make sure that the film/sensor plane is parallel to the plane of your main photo subject (e.g. a building front), or
use Photoshop or PTLens to do perspective correction during digital post-processing (this can be tricky, but it is feasible, albeit at the price of reduced image resolution).BTW, the CV 15mm finder produces heavy barrel distortion. I wonder if there is an alternative to this finder, because the CV finder's barrel distortion makes framing a matter of luck.

you can buy a conventional "spirit level" made for cameras for less than EUR 10, e.g.:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wasserwaage-3-Libellen-Triple-Axis-Level-Blitzschuh-/110518160185?cmd=ViewItem&pt=DE_Elektronik_Computer_Foto_Camcorder_Blitze_PM&hash=item19bb654b39#ht_2596wt_1643
http://cgi.ebay.de/Dual-Axis-Spirit-Level-Gradienter-Camera-Hot-Shoe-O1M-/250468566928?cmd=ViewItem&pt=DE_Elektronik_Computer_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive _PM&hash=item3a51170790#ht_3625wt_1167
http://cgi.ebay.de/High-Precision-2-Vial-Spirit-Level-/170380722917?cmd=ViewItem&pt=DE_Elektronik_Computer_Foto_Camcorder_Blitze_PM&hash=item27ab7b82e5#ht_1304wt_941

ruby.monkey

04-29-2010, 02:53

Finding somewhere to mount it can be problematic. Pity Voigtlander discontinued the double shoe adapters.

wiedo

04-29-2010, 03:24

Finding somewhere to mount it can be problematic. Pity Voigtlander discontinued the double shoe adapters.

Maybe something like this? http://matchtechnical.com/ThumbsUpCSMod4.aspx (pretty useless with a Leica CL i think)

craygc

04-29-2010, 03:34

The VC 15mm finder has terrible barrel distortion and is extremely difficult to level by eye sight alone. However, the VC right angle finder with the 15mm front element attached is very good for leveling.

With such wide angles I usually like something VERY close in the framing and I find 15mm in an RF not very good for 2 reasons: lack of close focus and just cant frame very accurately when something is that close. Apart from size and weight, nothing beats my Nikon 15mm f/3.5 AIS in this focal length :D

Arjay

04-29-2010, 03:46

Radi(c)al, sure, I know conventional spirit levels, and I even own several of the two and three axis levels. The problem is (a) their rather slack manufacturing tolerances (every spirit level indicates another levelled position, and the differences between them are more than just several thenths of a degree), and (b) how to position them on an average Leica or Hexar.

The Seculine Action Level Cross comes with an accessory 'cold' shoe with little magnets on its corners, which enables easy positioning on iron/steel camera tops. Since my Hexar's top is made of titanium, I had to use double-sided adhesive tape to fasten the shoe. Not overly elegant, but it works.

What sets this level apart from others is the fact, that it effectively works as a three-axis level: Its LED display indicates two axes for levelling. What's invisible is the fact that it also provides dual axis levelling info if you use the camera in portrait mode! Additionally, the device features electronic calibration, so that it can even be used on home-made shoes that are not precisely level. Plus, its accuracy is said to be in the range of .2 degrees.

BTW - I'm not affiliated with Seculine in any way, I just happen to like this gadget.

Finder

04-29-2010, 04:55

this is not the 15, but the 12, I just put it in close, press and hope for the best, just try to be brave

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/3028492048_a92c076d07_b.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/3028492048_a92c076d07_b.jpg)

Didn't he notice you standing on his shoes? You must have been very close. This is a fun image.

ferider

04-29-2010, 04:57

Roland, this is a lovely place! Where is it?

Thanks, Torsten. This is San Marino, a small island country in Italy.

Sparrow

04-29-2010, 05:54

Didn't he notice you standing on his shoes? You must have been very close. This is a fun image.

I held it out at arms-length digital style, only way I could get my knees out of shot, about 2ft from the subject, it was a Bessa L so he noticed the shutter going off but it was too late by then, I know him quite well anyway, we eat there a lot in the summer.

PaulRicciardi

04-29-2010, 10:08

I've used a 15mm quite a bit on the streets, great lens really.

If you're using it at a medium distance, just try and stay level:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3517629668_b3341cbcaa.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3102/3205085055_c93dba8bd6.jpg

However, where the lens really shines is getting close to your subjects:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3514/3199869515_1e75230b1f.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3494/3187941753_9674a71574.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3443/3185924998_7b594808c1.jpg

radi(c)al_cam

04-29-2010, 13:19

Finding somewhere to mount it can be problematic. Pity Voigtlander discontinued the double shoe adapters.

I've got one ;)

Oy!
Talk about a big problem!
You could make your own for $8.64 from the dreck you can get out of a bargain bin at a photo swap meet.
Two non-dedicated hot-shoes, and the cheapest, piece of junk flash you can find for the hot-shoe foot, a strip of aluminum or even plastic for the base, and a tube of 5-minute epoxy and you're in business.

Let's ask rbsinto?

matt352

04-30-2010, 03:15

I'm surprised no one has referred the OP to Ken Rockwell's article on the subject (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/how-to-use-ultra-wide-lenses.htm).

Nikkor AIS

04-30-2010, 07:19

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/F1000007/773408058_6aoKz-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9#773408058_6aoKz-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/F10000252/773418580_rGPyn-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9#773418580_rGPyn-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/87000022/778149127_KXvRJ-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9#778149127_KXvRJ-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/87000017/778148203_T8haT-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9#778148203_T8haT-A-LB)

A couple in B+W and a couple in color all shot with the Voigtlander 15 4.5 ASPH on Leica M3/M6/M7 bodies.

As far as using the ultra wide angle everyone has a differnt style. And thats a good thing. Getting in close is certainly has merit, Just like keeping the camera level, pointing up, pointing down. Do it all. Let your subject lighting and creativity dictate how you use the lens. As well as what you are tying to covey in your photographic expression. There is no "right" one way for every subject, every single time. The challenge is to treat every single frame with the ultra-wide angle as a opportunity to get it right for that image. For me that often mean some raising of the camera/climbing or laying on my belly with my face in the dirt/snow/mud.

Best of luck.

Gregory

Nikkor AIS

04-30-2010, 07:30

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/87040016/778163843_TxwCe-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9#778163843_TxwCe-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/22750003/762010031_EFHU6-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9#762010031_EFHU6-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/F1000010/783271225_cxTnq-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9#783271225_cxTnq-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/F1000030/764119253_XXUD9-L.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9#764119253_XXUD9-A-LB)

One way to get really good with the UWA is to shoot everything any anything. Sometimes it really helps your creativity to limit your choices.
For me shooting with the UWA is an valuable tool in the bag that Im rarely with out.

Gregory

wiedo

05-02-2010, 05:25

I'm surprised no one has referred the OP to Ken Rockwell's article on the subject (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/how-to-use-ultra-wide-lenses.htm).

Great article!

And great photo's from all of you.. I'm curious what i could do with it..

PaulRicciardi

05-04-2010, 07:16

Going through some old film recently found a few more with the 15mm on the streets:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/4576506349_be2e8095f9.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4577137624_74c6333da4.jpg

Again for both of these I was fairly close. Something I've noticed is that I like a slow shutter speed with an ultra wide angle. The background kind of blurs out and the subject stays mostly sharp.