Advice on LTM lens

[Shahir]

Hi RRF,

I have taken the leap into the Leica world last weekend...bought for my self a belated birthday present..a black M4-2 circa 1979..mechanicals and all the optics looks good...only the leatherette needs to be changed and a few pencil marks on the top plate..user condition i must say...

right now i'm looking for a lens for it...right now, got a good friend of mine that is happily and willingly to loan his Zeiss 50/1.5...it's a good lens...but a bit too expensive for me at the moment...right now i'm considering Leica 50 summarit or Leica 50 summitar...search over some online photography shop and found some quite affordable ones...

would love to hear experience from you guys regarding those two lenses...any pros or cons that I need to look out for..and if you guys have any other lens suggestions..considering a 50mm lens, LTM, 300USD and below...

thanks all.... :)

[coelacanth]

Congrats on the First leica.

Those to lenses you mentioned, look out for haze (foggy look on glass, tiny bit is may be ok), fungus (web-like texture, might be small but it grows and spreads!) and separations (old cement that was used to put glass elements together gone bad).

If you don't mind non-leica name, CV (voigtlander) nokton 50/1.5 and color-skopar 50/2.5 can be had within your budget if you shop around. They both are LTM so you can use them with Barnack Leica (or its clones) and M mount cameras.

[Bingley]

Congrats! In addition to what Sug said...

The Summitar was the precursor to the Summicron, and is a pretty good deal these days if you can get one in good shape. It's a nice lens to use w/ b&w. It's on the soft side at f.2 and f2.8, but sharpens up as you stop down. It does tend to flare easily, which is another reason to look for a clean one or budget a cla if there's any sign of haze.

I don't have a Summarit, so I can't comment from experience, but several members here have this lens. My impression is that it's harder to find a good one, and that its value these days may be more as a special purpose lens for portraits.

One further suggestion: If speed is not a major consideration and you don't mind a collapsible lens, the Leica Elmar 50 is also excellent, and may be easier to find in better shape then either the Summitar or Summarit. I'm thinking here about the Elmar 50/3.5, and the v. 1 50/2.8 (which was made in both LTM and M mounts). You can find good ones of each for under $300 if you look around.

The CV lenses recommended by Sug are both excellent and w/in your price range. In addition, the Canon 50/1.8 is outstanding and well w/in your budget. With a little careful shopping you may be able to find the Canon 50/1.4. There's an active thread on the latter lens over in the Canon RF forum. The Canon rf lenses from the 1950s and '60s are superb and often cost much less than their Leica counterparts from the same period.

Good luck!

[DNG]

I can only speak on the Summarit. I have a good one... A "BGN" grade at KEH. That means no haze, or fungus, typical cleaning marks-- but will not effect IQ. I paid $340.00... It is a great lens for B&W, and for color if you want to start with less color saturation look. But, it can be brought back to modern color in post also..Tonal range for B&W is good., and not contrasty.
I can't speak for f/1.5 to f/2 as far as soft or not. But f/5.6 on is quite sharp..
Sample..XP2 @ 400, f/8.....No Noise Reduction, but sharping and basic post.

http://files.myopera.com/arbib/albums/814357/700h-%20Morrisville%20Corner%20Building%2001%2B%20188%2 0USM_tn.jpg


100% Crop Below: Left Side Center of image
http://files.myopera.com/arbib/albums/814357/Morrisville%20Corner%20Building%2001%2B%20188%20US M-%20100-Crop.jpg

[coelacanth]

My comment above was from iPhone on bus. Here are some more inputs from me.

Things to look out when you buy old Leica (or other brands) lenses.

Haze:
Often it's removable by technician at cost, but sometimes that's not the case. Small amount is fine if you aren't picky. It might give you nice "glow" which you MIGHT like.

Fungus:
Sometimes hard to see. You might think it's a speck of dust. Watch out or "feet" coming out of the dot. That might be an early stage fungus. This grows into more visible spider-web-like thing and it might spread to other part of lens, camera or other lenses stored together in closed space. Sometimes leaving the lens under direct sunlight can kill it (don't do this while the lens is mounted on camera. You'll burn a hole on shutter curtain!), but it's really hard to terminate completely.

Separation
Pretty much what I wrote in my first post. You can see this fairly easily. Often fixable, but quite expensive to do so. Avoid!

Scratches, marks
Older lenses often have not so hard coating and that can be scratched very very easily. Actual SCRAPE on glass, especially on the rear element should be avoided, but some amount of coating blemishes, hairline scratches won't affect the picture quality. Sometimes you can score really good deal if you don't care about this too much. I've had/have many lenses with marks and they work just fine!


Other lens recommendation
Adding to Steve's recommendation, Nikkor 50/2 in LTM is also a great lens. I've got one from a Bay Area local RFF member for very cheap (well under your budget) and it's a lovely little lens. Fast enough, compact, extremely elegant finish, great "classic" picture quality.

As Steve said, 1st version of 50/2.8 Elmar can be had for $300 or less in good shape. You have to get used to slightly awkward aperture ring operation, but it's a tiny lovely lens with very classic look (both the exterior and picture characteristics).

One another thing. Do you NEED LTM lens, not M lens? Are you planning on using the lens on LTM body such as Leica IIIf or Bessa R? If not you can safely by M (bayonet mount) and use it with M4-2 without purchasing LTM-M mount adapter. Just FYI. Many modern M lenses can focus down to .7m instead of 1m on LTM lenses (unless modified like my Nikkor).

Good luck!

[ferider]

What look are you after ?

If you want a more classic rendering, I recommend a collapsible Summicron. KEH has one in BGN condition for US 325.

If you want modern, sharp and contrasty, get a CV 50/1.5. KEH has an EX copy for US 339.

Not affiliated with KEH, just a happy customer.

Roland.

[payasam]

You might also consider the Industar 61 (f/2.8) and the Jupiter 8 (f/2.0). Whatever you choose, it will be unwise to risk a cheap M adapter ring.

[erik]

It depends on what you want to shoot, but I would agree that the Summarit is really more of a specialty lens these days. I do love mine, it has a unique look but it wouldn't be my first choice for more general picture taking. A Summitar would be a better choice, or a J-8 or any of the CV lenses. All my opinion of course.

[stompyq]

You might also consider the Industar 61 (f/2.8) and the Jupiter 8 (f/2.0). Whatever you choose, it will be unwise to risk a cheap M adapter ring.

Care to explain? a induster/jupiter is less than $50 while a CV ltm/m adapter is more than $50 (i'am not even going to go near the leica ones). Is this purely to do with how much the lens gets shimmed or are we talking build quality

And my apologize to the OP for taking his query off topic

[payasam]

Many of the cheap adapters are not made to the necessary tolerances or with the correct materials. They may not fit properly, lenses may not focus correctly...

[erik]

I wouldn't consider the CV adapters in that class.

[N. Bruce Nelson]

Hi, Shahir. Welcome to RFF! I have only been here about
a year myself, but have found the people who hang out here a source of inspiration, humor, and friendship, as well as knowledge.

Many years ago, I shot with a Leica IIIf and 50 mm Summarit, but was usually not too happy with the lens wide open. I found it soft, flarey, and low contrast.
I now have three Canon range finder bodies, and have the VC 1.5, and the Canon 1.9, 1.8, and 1.4 50s.
Of these, I have used the VC and the Canon 1.8 the most. You might be surprised to hear that the Canon 1.8 is my favorite.

One thing to consider when thinking about subjective preferences is that the light in Malaysia is very different that it is in the SF Bay area, and my opinion could change if I was shooting there.

I know you will have fun whichever lens you choose.

Bruce

[Steve M.]

Get a collapsible 50 Summicron. No swirley bokeh, and mine is as sharp as the 50 Rigid I had. It's an exceptional lens. But all these lenses are very old, so condition is everything. The 50 collapsible I had previous to this one had some haze/cleaning marks, and it wasn't nearly as good as the prime example I have now for sharpness and resolution. I also have an Industar 61 that is a great lens. But it can't compare to the Leica. No 3-D w/ the Russian lens. I use an off brand adapter by the way that I had to take a flat file to the face of to get it fully flat. Focus is perfect. Now.

[Steve M.]

Hard to tell anything from that little thumbnail. These both are from the Leica 50 collapsible Summicron. Cheap film and Walgreens scans.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4001/4403390970_614febbe97_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2780/4403390966_2556785629_b.jpg

Notice those crazy lamp posts in the color shot? My 50 Dual Range used to image like that. I love it.

[Shahir]

fuhhh...what a great reading materials...you guys are just great...thank you all for info and input.... :)

why did I choose to get an 50mm LTM lens was the seller also include a CV 50/75 LTM to M adaptor FOC with the M4-2..so I think I might as well try and find some affordable LTM lens...and slowly, will try to get M mount lens in the future (35mm most probably)

and I want to add what Bruce said...it's hot and humid all year round right here in Malaysia and yes, maybe the older summarit or summitar lens can do wonders here :D

[filmtwit]

Don't forget the Canon LTM lenses at 50mm.

[Brian Sweeney]

You have 80 years of lenses to consider.

On the Summitar: it uses a strange, fluted filter. This is hard to find, and often is expensive.

The Summarit uses 41mm filters, also hard to find and typically expensive. BUT: you can wrap a little teflon around a 40.5mm filter and it will fit.

The Collapsible Summicron uses the standard 39mm filter. The Canon 50/1.8 uses a hard-to-find 40mm filter, but step up rings from 40->43 are cheap on Ebay.