MP and M7 pricing thoughts [Archive]

clicker

01-23-2010, 08:07

Chris101

01-23-2010, 08:11

Yep, I'm thinking an MP for three hundred bucks would suit my budget just fine.

robklurfield

01-23-2010, 08:12

I'd take two, even at 500 smackers.

Yep, I'm thinking an MP for three hundred bucks would suit my budget just fine.

Benjamin

01-23-2010, 08:26

An MP, as nice as it is, only offers a marginal improvement over a standard Leica M6, and adds nothing really in regard to functionality.

My guess would be that when people are buying working M's they weigh the pros and cons, and factor in the basic cost and go with an older body.

The M7 on the other hand, seems to sell quicker, though it's only real competition is the ZM at the higher end of the market.

If you're looking at the Leica, it's unlikely that you'll buy a AE Bessa and the Hexars' just aren't as well known as the others.

I like the idea of the $500 MP though! Shame about the framelines though, even at that price.

aizan

01-23-2010, 08:27

you know their price will only go up...

swoop

01-23-2010, 08:35

I think $2700 is a fair price for a new Leica considering the place of film in photography today. I'd grab an MP at that price.

I also think $5k would be fair for an M9.

peter_n

01-23-2010, 09:16

If you're looking at the prices on eBay it's that everyone is selling BIN because of the continually spiraling eBay costs, and hoping to get a "decent" price. Prices still seem to be reasonable on forums though.

abenner

01-23-2010, 09:26

MPs have held their value well. M7s are the best buy in used Leicas right now. A very nice used one can easily be found for $1600-$1800. That's a steal. Stan Tamarkin has a bunch of them at excellent prices.

Roger Hicks

01-23-2010, 09:35

I think $2700 is a fair price for a new Leica considering the place of film in photography today. I'd grab an MP at that price.

I also think $5k would be fair for an M9.

What on earth criteria are you using for 'fair'?

Cheers,

R.

Al Patterson

01-23-2010, 09:55

When I look at the prices of late model M film cameras it appears that many go unsold. It may be that prices need to come down to balance supply and demand, especially with with the move to digital that many seem to be using these days. Any thoughts as to where prices are heading with these nice cameras, and how long might it take to find a balance between sellers and buyers.

Well, sure, but you do realise that making anything in small batches by hand tends to be expensive? Maybe a plastic MP made in Malaysia or Vietnam could sell for $500 or so, but if you want "quality" you need to pay for it.

That said, I'd love an MP, but I'll stick with my used CL which I picked up for less than $500.

Nikkor AIS

01-23-2010, 10:45

I really wanted a Leica MP but couldn't find one in my budget, so I settled on a Leica M7 :). So far I'm not disappointed at all. I love the true 1/1000 of a second and the aperture priority :cool:. For timed exposure night shots, I must say that the M7 is the best camera I've ever used. I still really want a Leica MP. In fact, I dream about using the camera. It's strange because I've never seen or held an MP. I'm just going on its reputation. As for the price of the Leica MP, I'm not bitching. If you want the best you have to pay the price. Not that I wouldn't jump all over a copy that was less expensive. On the upside of the $ people still want/expect for their MPs, it's nice to know that the Leica MP will hold its value in the future. Just a note: I paid $2,300 Cdn for my mint (only been used a couple of times) Leica M7.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M9-Sample-Images-1/DSC9959/722780472_LiM32-M-3.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M9-Sample-Images-1/10420907_dAmia/1/#722780472_LiM32-A-LB)

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/New-2010/F1000023/771136385_bexwY-M.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/New-2010/10821381_qKWWq/1/#771136385_bexwY-A-LB)

Taken with Leica M7 and 15 Voigt on XP2.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/F1000029/769372141_adRnd-M.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9/1/#769372141_adRnd-A-LB)

Leica M7 and 21 F4 @ F11 at 15 seconds on XP2.

Gregory

RAN

01-23-2010, 12:53

I think $2700 is a fair price for a new Leica considering the place of film in photography today. I'd grab an MP at that price.

.
There is a Nice one in the classifieds at about that number...

maddoc

01-23-2010, 23:59

ZebGoesZeiss

01-24-2010, 00:12

A couple of month ago it wasn`t difficult to snap a Leica MP for ~ 2.200 USD here in the RFF classifieds and some dealer here in Japan were selling them below ~2.000 USD. M7 were always a tad cheaper than MP in the used market despite being the better camera regarding functionality. Must be the "MP-hype" ... :rolleyes:

I have one as well, and I lusted for it for quite a while. When I got it, it sort of cooled. It might be "smoother" or "better" than my M6, but I still consider my M6 to be the workhorse around the house.

The MP fever is probably born from the fact that Leica marketed it as a "Phtographer's camera". They built on the M6, and improved on it. It is most likely the last film camera that Leica will ever make, and as such it demands a high price. As for being "the best", well, I firmly believe that a Leica M6 with a 35mm Summicron is a better camera than the MP without a lens :D

gilpen123

01-24-2010, 00:24

I held the MP in a Hongkong store (Tin Cheung) went back there 3x and still couldn't part with my $3.6K which is the current brand new price there. Then I went to the other stores, All Good Friends, Shogun, David Chan, etc. to look for a nice used M6. Upon comparing the 2 in my mind there is really not much difference in handling, shutter and wind lever smoothness. The used Leica in Hongkong is more expensive than in the US and most are in not so good condition so I went home empty handed. Exactly what you said, I got myself a LN M6 TTL (LHSA) and a 35 2.0 V4 with hood at the same price as a new MP from KEH.

I have one as well, and I lusted for it for quite a while. When I got it, it sort of cooled. It might be "smoother" or "better" than my M6, but I still consider my M6 to be the workhorse around the house.

The MP fever is probably born from the fact that Leica marketed it as a "Phtographer's camera". They built on the M6, and improved on it. It is most likely the last film camera that Leica will ever make, and as such it demands a high price. As for being "the best", well, I firmly believe that a Leica M6 with a 35mm Summicron is a better camera than the MP without a lens :D

Roger Hicks

01-24-2010, 00:35

'MP fever' may simply be down to the fact that it's a very, very nice camera, and not to hype at all. My last new Leica before the MP was a M4-P. The M6 didn't excite me much (and besides I couldn't afford one) and I was not at all keen on the M8ttl with the backwards shutter speed dial. I am consitutionally opposed to unnecessary battery dependence (i.e. in film cameras) and therefore remained immune to the M7's charms. But when the MP came out, I thought, "There is another camera to use for decades, like the M4-P" (which I had had for over 25 years at that point).

Cheers,

R.

Debusti Paolo

01-24-2010, 00:36

well I can spend 600 /700 euro for a MP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Turtle

01-24-2010, 00:45

MPs seem to hold a better price than M7s not the other way round. My thinking as to why is that the M7 has less appeal to fondlers and the fondler market helps keep MP prices up. I bought MPs for the same dial direction as older bodies, slightly smaller profile and all speeds with no batteries. I also shoot a M6 classic 0.85 and DID sell a Mp 0.85 to make space for this as it is very much a second body and felt an extra 1.3K in my pocket was better. Still, the MPs are fantastic tactile cameras and hold appeal to many including serious users and some pros.

Exc+ to mint M7s go (depending on finder and DX) from $1800 to about $2500 and MPs seem to go for about $2000 to about $2700 in std format, so a touch more.

Note that tehy supply of cheap 'used mint' MPs at $2900 from Tony Rose has gone and they are now about $3700 and that is surely going to keep used prices buoyant.

retow

01-24-2010, 01:42

I'd take two, even at 500 smackers.

Coun't me in. I'll take one for each of my m-lenses :D.

Ron (Netherlands)

01-24-2010, 02:05

Don't know about actual availability and prodution figures, but I guess a second hand MP is more rare than a M7, so that also counts for the price difference, and it is not only a user but shurely a collectors market.

Beemermark

01-24-2010, 02:30

I really wanted an Lecia MP but couldn't find one in my budget, so I settled on a Lecia M7:). I still really want a Lecia M.P.
Curious as to why you want an MP? I've used an MP and own two M7's. Except for the funky rewind lever (which is a PIA) the MP isn't nothing but an M6 in an M7 body.

Nikkor AIS

01-24-2010, 04:49

I think calling the MP nothing but an M6 in an M7 body is a reason in itself. Like I said, I haven't even held an MP in my hands and yet it's a camera I literally dream about. I'm afraid that me getting a Leica MP is a foregone conclusion, it's part of my destiny. I could try and fight it but it's no use, I might as well give in. The best thing would be if a forum member with a black Leica MP who feels it might not be right for them and perfect for me, sends me a PM and we get a deal done :p.

Gregory

maddoc

01-24-2010, 05:09

Roger,

what is the eminent difference between the M6 and MP that made you pass on the M6 but buying the MP ?

'MP fever' may simply be down to the fact that it's a very, very nice camera, and not to hype at all. My last new Leica before the MP was a M4-P. The M6 didn't excite me much (and besides I couldn't afford one) and I was not at all keen on the M8ttl with the backwards shutter speed dial. I am consitutionally opposed to unnecessary battery dependence (i.e. in film cameras) and therefore remained immune to the M7's charms. But when the MP came out, I thought, "There is another camera to use for decades, like the M4-P" (which I had had for over 25 years at that point).

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks

01-24-2010, 06:00

Dear Gabor,

'Proper' rewind (I had to straighten the crank of the M4-P once in Slovenia); less flare in the finder; and, as I said, not only could I not afford an M6 when it first came out, but I didn't really feel I wanted one (the two may have been related). Mind you, one of my friends who did buy an M6 when it came out had to send it back under guarantee, which also influenced my decision. By the time I could even consider another new Leica, the M6ttl had come out.

Why (once I could afford it) a new MP instead of a used M6? Because I like new cameras more, as well as for the above reasons. And (let's be honest) Leica normally gives me a good press discount. Is that bribery? I don't think so. I could probably score cameras that I don't like from quite a few manufacturers, in return for good reviews, but (a) I don't want to lie to my readers and (b) why would I want to 'win' a camera I don't like? I'm not saying I can't be bribed: just that no-one has ever offered me enough to make me even consider it. They'd need to make me independently wealthy, because it would destroy my credibility and stop me writing about equipment altogether.

EDIT: See also Mark's comment, below!

Cheers,

R.

_mark__

01-24-2010, 06:00

How about the MP being an absolutely beautiful looking thing, the M6/M7 not so much.

b&w

01-24-2010, 06:27

i admittedly sold my M6 for the MP. frankly, it was just for the lust of the upgrade (side-stepping the issue that arguably the m7 is a better upgrade).

heck, pictures all turned out the same, but the joy of using it did increase marginally... was it worth the price difference? well, that really depends on how much you have tucked under your pillow and how deep your leica-lust is... but pls, medical bills and kids education should come ahead of a MP. ;)

b&w

01-24-2010, 06:30

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/F1000029/769372141_adRnd-M.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9/1/#769372141_adRnd-A-LB)
Leica M7 and 21 F4 @ F11 at 15 seconds on XP2.
is this ottawa?

maddoc

01-24-2010, 06:37

Roger,

thanks for your thoughtful reply. I have to admit the look of the MP was also a main - probably the main - reason when I bought my MP two years ago. At that time, it was my dream camera too. "Mechanical Perfection" but in my case a very unreliable camera that had spent to much time at Leica service .... After it had been finally fixed, the dream was over and I sold it. Bad luck, I would say.

Maybe in the future I will buy another MP again but at present my M4-P and M7 serve my needs very well. One work-horse camera and the convenience of the AE fit my needs very well.

MCTuomey

01-24-2010, 06:46

recently i sold a black paint MP, keeping an M7 as my film M. while i wasn't immune to the charms of the MP - and they are considerable even to my rude self - i preferred the M7's toolset.

i'm pedestrian, admittedly.

rolo

01-24-2010, 07:40

To fund an M9 I needed to sell my MP, or M7 as I knew that the traffic would move to the digital M. A diffcult decision and in the end I sold the M7.

I'd recently started to use the M7 as the preferred camera because of the auto features and the higher hit rate I'd enjoyed with it. However, I decided that the MP would hold it's value better in the long term; always be ready to shoot with the lower depenancy on batteries; and I preferred the winder and the re-wind.

What I discovered that there is a rising market for M7's and got an excellent price for it. More thatn I would expect for my MP. :)

Beemermark

01-24-2010, 12:06

How about the MP being an absolutely beautiful looking thing, the M6/M7 not so much. The M7, except for the rewind, is the same body, finish (unless you go for an extra) and imitation leather. Both tops are milled out of brass. Same viewfinder, same guts except for the AE function.

peter_n

01-24-2010, 13:05

What I discovered that there is a rising market for M7's and got an excellent price for it. More thatn I would expect for my MP. :)Same here. I sold my last M7 recently and got a very good price for it too. Both of my M7s never gave me any problems but I did overuse the AE so I thought it best to be without and went back to mechanical bodies. No regrets. :)

Nikkor AIS

01-24-2010, 14:19

B+W: Shot of alley was taken in Calgary.

http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/AAC2166/772510914_9hp7P-M.jpg (http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Leica-M-2010/10913736_R6vV9/1/#772510914_9hp7P-A-LB)

Taken with Nikkor 45 2.8 ED PC on a D3.

I have zero regrets about getting the Leica M7 for my third M body. However, I still want an MP. I just think it's the sexiest camera ever made.

G.

Beemermark

01-24-2010, 14:36

Well now, this thread has got me thinking I need an MP-:). i was looking for justification and Peter gave it. Maybe I should sell one of my M7's and go back to an all manual camera. I do love the black lacquer MP. If they made a MP with the lines of the M4 I'd go for it in a second.

Roger Hicks

01-24-2010, 14:39

Same here. I sold my last M7 recently and got a very good price for it too. Both of my M7s never gave me any problems but I did overuse the AE so I thought it best to be without and went back to mechanical bodies. No regrets. :)

Dear Peter,

Objectively, this is meaningless -- how can you 'overuse' a feature on a camera? -- but I know exactly what you mean.

What puzzles me is that I used AE a lot more on the M8 and M8.2 than M9. Why? It just seems to me that the M9 is more 'real' somehow.

As I say, mystical nonsense...

Cheers,

R.

rolo

01-25-2010, 03:03

Objectively, this is meaningless -- how can you 'overuse' a feature on a camera? -- but I know exactly what you mean.
What puzzles me is that I used AE a lot more on the M8 and M8.2 than M9. Why? It just seems to me that the M9 is more 'real' somehow.
As I say, mystical nonsense...

I found the process to be very illogical and struggled with it for quite a while. I'd definitely chosen the M7 as my 'main user' film M, but it could not combat the 'ownership preference' of the MP. Quite strange.

What's more strange to me is that my true passion is for black and white silver prints produced especially from MF cameras. Yet over the past 5 years, I've put my Rolleiflex 2.8f and serious Hasselblad gear to one side whilst I've acquired over £15,000s worth of Leica gear for digital shooting and rarely print personal images.

Dear Marge .... what's wrong with me ?? :D