View Full Version : IXMOO questions
ChrisLivsey
01-01-2010, 23:49
I have started, yes I know late to the party again, to buy IXMOO cassettes for the M2s because it seems they are made for each other and if my plans to use 5222 and home brew developers come to fruition they will be needed. So I have two now :) well it's a start.
I am clear over the differences to the FILCA, which is more than may sellers are :rolleyes: but there are subtle differences between the IXMOOs no doubt because they were produce over a longish period.
Could someone, and I post here because I suspect the readers of Tom's subsection probably own more of these than any other group, explain the significance of the Z ? Is it purely to show the lock position against the spring?
The centre film spool carries a number in the depressed oval. My older one has 1 and a long traditional arrow for the film slot. Is this just a mould number or should there be a matching 1 anywhere aka H'blad matching film backs?
The newer spool carries a 2 and an arrow like a greater than sign with the screw on cover plate being painted a camera matt black. Are there other variants ?
Good shooting over this new year to all.
Don't know how many variants there are, but they all work the same way and do the same thing: so perhaps we should not call them variants.
ChrisLivsey
01-02-2010, 05:50
Variant- noun: a form or version that varies from other forms of the same thing or from a standard.
Seems OK to me.
Maybe: exhibiting variety or diversity.
beoon@aol.com
01-02-2010, 06:01
there are about (a couple we haven't seen yet) 6 versions of the metal casette. As to using them you only need to know about 2...the "B" casette which had a brass knob on the top and fits only the screw mount leicas; and the "N" or "neue" casette with a chrome knob that fits both the screw moutn and M's..i.e. all of the cameras. As of the M6 they discontinued the baseplate cam that opens the casette and so none of the cameras after the M-4P will take them. you can probably get an M4-2 or P bottom plate and use it on a 6 if you're so inclined.
newsgrunt
01-02-2010, 06:28
gotta disagree about the post M4P cameras and cassettes. My chrome M6 (late 80's or early 90s, have to check the serial) takes the cassettes with the stock plate but a black M6 I had didn't and for that I had to buy a different baseplate. My black MP won't take the cassettes because they don't physically fit in the camera, there's a small ridge or bump inside preventing it.
The Z stands for the German "Zu" or "closed". There are some variations of the N cassettes, including black or grey center spools - brassy or black surface treatment and black or chrome "lock" springs. They all work fine and are interchangeble -i.e the center spool works on all, the inside shell will fit in any outside shell etc.
The key is that the "knob" on the top is chrome and that the outside shell is a proper N cassette shell - otherwise you cant close the baseplate.
The early M6 had an IXMOO style baseplate - but at around #2 100 xxx they changed it to the flat disc lock. You can still fit the earlier type baseplate though and use the IXMOO. Do NOT use the IXMOO on a M7!!!! It will slide in all right - but will create havoc with the sensors for the film indexing! This is one reason why I dont make a production run of M6 Rapidwinders, as someone will try it on their M7 and go ballistic when the camera has to be repaired!
All you really need is about 18-19 IXMOO's and you can then load a 100ft spool of film.
Always check IXMOO's for stiff opening and closing (usually caused by "corrosion" of the brass - polish the inside shell and apply a very thin layer of grease to it to smoothen it out). Also check that the locking spring engages and dis-engages properly.If it is bent out of shape - you can still use the cassette - but you have to be careful as it can spin open in daylight and fog part of the film.
Always be sure to remove the "V" shaped end from the cassette spool after you have ripped the film off for processing. If you try to load it with the little "tab" still stuck in it - the springs wont hold the film properly and you have the dreaded "flap-flap" sound of a film spinning on the take up spool!
Accura in Japan made a knock -off IXMOO - works fine, but it is really not interchangeble with parts - the spool tends to jam and the inside/outside shell are fractionally different and tend to bind if mixed up.
I think Happyness is having a large amount of IXMOO's loaded (like 200) and be able to shoot your heart out for a month or two. Nobody can claim that it is fun loading them - but once done. life is good.
ChrisLivsey
01-02-2010, 10:12
Tom, comprehensive as we expect, thanks. Didn't Leica New York make some as well as Wetzlar?
198 to go then.
Chris, I have seen some with the Leica N.Y. stamps on them, but I dont know if they were made there or just supplied to Leica N.Y. with that stamp.
Keep looking for them - you can never have too many!!!!
Tom
ChrisLivsey
01-02-2010, 13:03
Keep looking for them - you can never have too many!!!!
Tom
Yes, and another advantage, they are cheaper to collect than lenses :rolleyes:
Michael Markey
01-02-2010, 13:21
Thanks for that Tom. I`ve just started to use them using a daylight loader. I note that we also made a type here in the UK. Shirley Wellard. jem had some last time that I was in.
Ronald M
01-02-2010, 13:24
I have seen so many varients of IXMOO that the only ways to be sure is is to measure the height and/or look at the bottom. Screw mt ones have two concentric ridges on the bottom. M cassettes have a ridge bridging the two concentric ones ridges.
Chromed springs are not always chrome. The brass knob is not always chromed.
If you stand them next to each other, the door on the screw mount ones is higher which explains why film can sag downward in 111C and earlier models if we use a modern cassette.
You can maybe hack a point on the leader that may function partially, but the ABLON insures a perfect fit with stops to prevent the film from going too far. It is definately not fun unjamming film from a spool that will not go either way.
Watson and some other loaders allow normal daylight loading, but dark is really the best way as you never expose the trailer. Best done with the bench winder.
Thanks for that Tom. I`ve just started to use them using a daylight loader. I note that we also made a type here in the UK. Shirley Wellard. jem had some last time that I was in.
I used to have some of the Wellard ones - they were a bit "hit and miss' with M's so in the end I traded them off for IXMOO's.
ChrisLivsey
01-02-2010, 23:42
Quote:And the name of the cassette? Well, the designers apparently came from Shirley, in the English Midlands. And one of them, wondering if they would ever perfect this delightful little doodad, said, “Well, if we do make any money, it’ll be well ’ard earned.” Hence, Shirley Wellard. End Quote
Source, with more
info:http://www.shutterbug.net/equipmentreviews/classic_historical/0604sb_classic/
Chris. thanks for the info on the Shirley Wellard's! I always kept forgetting to open and close them with the rewind - and if you didn't - it would scratch the film!
Would this baseplate be an example of the earlier or later versions to fit IXMOO on an M6 ?
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75913&d=1262755832
This is the later version and will not work with an IXMOO. I will try to some shots tomorrow of the variances of the IXMOO's and baseplates.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4251626733_f605d49a2c_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rapidwinder/4251626733/)
The two variants of IXMOO cassettes. The black one is a M-cassette with the 3.6mm "lip" at the bottom. The copper colored one is a LTM cassette with the 2 mm "fatter" lip. You can put the M-cassette IXMOO inner shell in a screw-mount outer shell - but it will not work in a M-camera.
The base-plate shows the lock (old M2 base-plate) and my M2 IXMOO ready Rapidwinder. The chrome "button" slots into the groove in the lock and the bow-shaped stop pushes the spring away and enables you to open/close it with the base-plate lock.
The flat locking disc started to show up on the late M6's and renders the use of IXMOO's on these cameras impossible. Probably a safeguard for not sticking the IXMOO into M7's.
Jhon Butcher
01-10-2010, 21:22
Fill them up like a burrito, then roll them up and eat form the open end.
ChrisLivsey
01-15-2010, 07:44
Not an IXMOO but a FILCA (complete circle on base not Omega) but interesting as it is a Leitz New York stamp. On the bay item 150405514700. UK seller I have no affiliation with.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4251626733_f605d49a2c_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rapidwinder/4251626733/)
You can put the M-cassette IXMOO inner shell in a screw-mount outer shell - but it will not work in a M-camera.
You are correct with this one - the inner spool in the more LTM cassette and the Ixmoo is the same...so if you happen to have an IXMOO shell and are missing a spool just pick up a more common (and cheaper) ltm cassette as a donor. I actually toyed with the idea of modifying some screw mount cassettes to work in M cameras via grinding off the bottom and resoldering but came to my senses and just bought some generic bulk spools (It could be easily done, but the work involved is not anywhere near worth it...unless you are really bored and have a lot of spare time on your hands).
BTW - Tom I hold you (and your constant praise of the ixmoo) personally responsible for the steadily rising prices for these cassettes :D
I must admit that I have never considered cutting down LTM cassettes to M-size! Of course, after reading the post I instantly looked at my LTM cassettes and thought "Could be done" - but as stated - probably not worth the effort.
I dont think I am solely responsible for the price hike - there are lots of M users chasing them now. It took me a long time to accumulate the ones I have - probably 30 years. I always would buy them when I saw them, sometimes 1 or two and occasionally 30-40 of them! I have been using films like Agfa's AP 250 and Kodak's XX as well as other odd films only available in 100/400 and even 1000 ft rolls - so this necessitated chasing down IXMOO's. The problem is that I am also usng Nikon's version of these - they are really difficult to find. Just have enough to do 250 ft of film (about 50 of them).
SteveM_NJ
02-08-2010, 11:48
like many others, I too, am starting to look for them, (not sure where you come across them) only have a small bunch of plastic modern generic cassettes that i dont care for but use until ixmoo is found. so will be looking everywhere and picking up 1 or 2 at a time as i see them.(30 years, oh my, i'll start counting -- zero so far, no place to go but up.)
Disaster_Area
02-08-2010, 11:54
What's the current going rate for an IXMOO... I'm not talking the ridiculous collectors prices you see on eBay (I've seen $100-$200 a cassette)... but what's a "decent" price to pick them up at? I don't roll a lot of film, so I'm looking to pick up about 3-4 for my M2.
ChrisLivsey
02-08-2010, 12:00
My advice for what it's worth, Steve is to 'phone around dealers and ask. They often treat them as useless and put them in a box. They can't be bothered to put them on -bay other than those that do and ask the earth. Picked up four a couple of weeks ago at a Leica dealer I don't often visit, asked about IXMOO he said no then I saw them at the back of a case. Didn't know they were called that was the reply. FP4 still loaded in three of them (note not plus). Not expensive.
Roger Hicks
02-08-2010, 12:56
Quote:And the name of the cassette? Well, the designers apparently came from Shirley, in the English Midlands. And one of them, wondering if they would ever perfect this delightful little doodad, said, “Well, if we do make any money, it’ll be well ’ard earned.” Hence, Shirley Wellard. End Quote
Source, with more
info:http://www.shutterbug.net/equipmentreviews/classic_historical/0604sb_classic/
Dear Chris,
Notice who wrote that?
Shirley Wellards are designed for cameras with pull-up rewind knobs, NOT Leicas. If the web-site were working I'd direct you there for the manufacturers' instructions and pictures, but it's in the middle of SERIOUS revisions.
Cheers,
R.
ChrisLivsey
02-08-2010, 22:50
Dear Chris,
Notice who wrote that?
R.
I have to say I didn't or would have given a by line as well as the link. Such a good story it deserved a mention.
ChrisL
Just a couple quick comments here-
I shoot LTM Leicas and I'm gearing up to roll fill again (it's been nearly 20 years since I last used a bulk loader:rolleyes:)
So far, I've gathered 21 cassettes - I have had the opposite experience of a few of you M users- I thought I was buying only FILCA cassette - but I now have TWO IXMOOs in the mix! I guess I should keep them in case I ever "graduate" to M-status....unless someone wanted to trade;).
I have noted several interesting varieties in cassette models/engraving/manufacturing. I have SIX different Filca styles - some are "generic" - no engravings; some are generic with a different locking clip style - they use a notch instead of a small hole; I have two particularly well-machined cassettes marked "Made in Switzerland", and several other varieties of Leitz and/or Germany engravings....no "rare" Leitz N.Y. If it's worth the effort or of interest I could post pictures of these.
Maybe I should stop obsessing about random collecting details and actually load them!:bang:
Never seen or heard of the "Made in Switzerland" version! Amazing what those watchmakers do when timepieces are slow (remember ALPA cameras!). Dont worry about the IXMOO's - they work fine in screw-mount Leicas. They were "back wards" compatible - so just load them and shoot.
Hi Tom
The FILCA cassettes without Leitz markings on the bottom. Are they genuine Leica FILCA's or generic non-Leitz??
Hi Tom
The FILCA cassettes without Leitz markings on the bottom. Are they genuine Leica FILCA's or generic non-Leitz??
Colyn. I think that the original FILCA did not have any markings. I have seen them with and without markings. There were few outside manufacturers of these (some from Japan, but they were mostly later ones - IXMOO copies).
Here's a picture of the "Made in Switzerland" FILCA cassettes.
Just want to be sure here.....
I've been using the "Search" feature here to read about what bulk loaders will work with my FILCAs and my two IXMOOs.
Looks like the Watsons (models 100 and 200) and the Alden 74 and the Computrol (model ?) will work with Leitz cassette (LTM and M?) - they have the ability to open&close the cassette, right?
Somewhere in the attic, I have a Lloyd loader, but it seems these don't work with FILCA (?)
Am I on the right track? What bulk loader should I look for?
Thanks
Roger Hicks
02-21-2010, 08:45
None of them had EVER worked well with self-opening cassettes with me. They're OK unless the cassettes are the slightest bit stiff, at which point the plastic of the loader is just too soft. I normally loaded the cassette with the gate open, closed the loader (in case of error); and then, in darkness, cut the film and closed the cassette.
Cheers,
R.
I agree with Roger here. The IXMOO's and FILCA's tend to get stiff with age (dont we all) and as the brass corrodes and turns green - you need to apply more force and usually the plastic part in the loader snaps off.
Easier to do "arms length" loading in a dark room - faster too.
You can clean up the cassettes if you are careful. Even a Brillo pad, same as you use for cleaning cookware works fine. Once clean and "de-dusted" - apply a small amount of grease (vaseline works fine) and reassemble and open/close several time and then wipe off excess lubricants.
Here's a picture of the "Made in Switzerland" FILCA cassettes.
Never seen one of these!
So, really any loader is fine - it just becomes a storage place for the spool... now that I think about it, I vaguely remember the "arms-wide" measuring trick.(and I like the idea of loading the entire 100' at once)...still hunting for my Lloyd loader - can't find it! Found the GrayLab timer, grain enlarger, developing canister, easels, etc. - everything but the loader....
Saw an AFLOO film-spooler on e-Bay... how helpful/useful would that be?
OK - just did a search on the AFLOO - looks like this has been discussed (what hasn't!) - pretty cool gadget - might save your fingertip and provide a bit more accuracy - otherwise just an excuse for another Leica widget!
Erik van Straten
02-25-2010, 00:39
[ I have two particularly well-machined cassettes marked "Made in Switzerland", and several other varieties of Leitz and/or Germany engravings....[/quote]
I also do have a cassette marked "made in Switzerland".
An AFLOO is very convenient. You can mount it against the wall at a height of 1.60 m. When loading a cassette, you'll know the correct length of the film when it touches the ground.
Erik.
Ok- Three years have passed and I thought I'd update this thread... As film becomes harder to find, I'm still planning to "Roll my Own" just haven't tried it yet.
The BAD news is my two Screwmount Leicas were stolen. They did not take the bag full of FILCAs:rolleyes: I sold two of my IXMOOs at some point:bang:
So now I have 18 FILCAs and ONE IXMOO
I took the insurance money and bought a M4-P. It's been great and I loaded the IXMOO to try it out...works fine, very cool:cool:
So, anyone want to trade a few FILCAs for some IXMOOs?
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8516/8444884325_d6e047779b_c.jpg
I have this great deal with Lasse at Shonherr's Foto in Stockholm. He collects IXMOO's for me and I trade him Softies. Just got a box today - and 4 of the IXMMO's still has film in them. On the plastic can two are marked Tmax 100 and two are APX 25. One has a note stating "four exposed frames". So I will shoot all four - run them in Rodinal 1:200/120 minutes (fall back processing for unknown films).
Also a couple of FILCA's - one of which refuses to open (probably brass oxidized and stuck - might run it through an ultra sonic washer to see if it will free it up).
ChrisLivsey
02-04-2013, 22:22
The BAD news is my two Screwmount Leicas were stolen. They did not take the bag full of FILCAs:rolleyes:
Condolences on that, I wonder if they know what they have? Actually thse dyas it would be easier to replace the cameras than the FILCAs :D:D
Just bought another 15 IXMOOS. I think I'm done (maybe overdone?).
If I was sure that bulk film will always be available, I think I would consider sending my MP to have the chamber machined to accept IXMOOs...
buzzardkid
02-04-2013, 23:13
Last week sold my last batch of 15 IXMOO's (Hi Michael!:D)
Think all in all I sold 50 of em to fellow RFF members. I have 5 left and while that is a lot less than the 25 I expected to have, I mainly shoot the Ricoh GXR-M and the Leica II these days so the IXMOO's where without work anyway.
In case anybody knows what they are, I'd be interested in some KASAM's.
They are metal cassettes made by Leitz, but have no spring and are felt-lined. There's a small metal disk to their top end. They were made for early Leica I and Leica II camera's.
I'm still using them (got 5 of them) and feel they're very good!
Last week sold my last batch of 15 IXMOO's (Hi Michael!:D)
Think all in all I sold 50 of em to fellow RFF members. I have 5 left and while that is a lot less than the 25 I expected to have, I mainly shoot the Ricoh GXR-M and the Leica II these days so the IXMOO's where without work anyway.
In case anybody knows what they are, I'd be interested in some KASAM's.
They are metal cassettes made by Leitz, but have no spring and are felt-lined. There's a small metal disk to their top end. They were made for early Leica I and Leica II camera's.
I'm still using them (got 5 of them) and feel they're very good!
Hey Johan :)
I'm waiting for the postman ;)
Just out of curiosity, why the KASAM and not the FILCA?
Won't the FILCA work in your II ?
I notice that among the last batch of IXMOOs I have received, a few of them have a black knob, not the usual chrome one.
buzzardkid
03-14-2013, 11:34
Hey Johan :)
I'm waiting for the postman ;)
Just out of curiosity, why the KASAM and not the FILCA?
Won't the FILCA work in your II ?
Hi michael,
Saw this only just now!
My Leica II is an early one and the base plate does not have the upward-pointy thingy that opens the FILCA, or the base plate lock that rotates the FILCA open.
The KASAM does not have a rotating cylinder like the FILCA, instead it has a felt light trap. So far, I haven't had any scratches on my negatives. Fingers crossed!
Happy shooting!
Hi michael,
Saw this only just now!
My Leica II is an early one and the base plate does not have the upward-pointy thingy that opens the FILCA, or the base plate lock that rotates the FILCA open.
The KASAM does not have a rotating cylinder like the FILCA, instead it has a felt light trap. So far, I haven't had any scratches on my negatives. Fingers crossed!
Happy shooting!
Hey Johan
Impressive. How early?
I notice that among the last batch of IXMOOs I have received, a few of them have a black knob, not the usual chrome one.
The black knob inicates that they are for screw-mount Leicas. Unfortunately, they dont work on M's.
The black knob inicates that they are for screw-mount Leicas. Unfortunately, they dont work on M's.
Tom,
fortunately, they do.. :)
These are not FILCAs, but real IXMOOs with dark knobs.
Only three of them...
Rangefinderfreak
04-01-2013, 13:40
Tom: I made careful measurements: it is possible to use Filca casettes in M2/3 and 4 if you grind down the black knob, you need to grind about 3mm. it will open BUT the film will travel not in the filmgroove of the body. That is a NoNo for me. Luckily we had here in Finland a guy who was quitting with leicas and he sold 50pcs IXMOO`s I had 6 of them for €40,- not bad price at all, ( that was 6,6 euros per piece). I have now 36 IXMOO`s good for 2 100ft bulk loading or half a can of DXX 5222...
As you say - The Filca's can be ground down to fit - but the film is skewed in the camera. Too much trouble and a fair chance that it could jam with the M's lock.
I have just realized that however trouble some IXMOO's can be to load - they are nothing like the Tessina cassettes! Only 41 cm of film and it will jam at the slightest provocation. The felt traps are very stiff. I have found that the easiest way is simply to remove the traps - and accept some flare!
I have 400 ft of XX to load too - takes a good evening to get it done. You sound a bit like a scrap dealer with 1/2 dozen IXMOO's in the pocket, clanking and rattling about.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.