The Aussie Travelling Bessa III Update

[Leigh Youdale]

First Impressions:-

The camera arrived well packed in it’s own little Pelican case from Mainline Photographics. Considering it has already been through the hands of the major part of the 20 or so participating photographers, each having it to use for two weeks, it’s in mint condition. It’s probably had more use in the last few months than I would give it in years, so it gets a tick from me for quality of finish and construction.

It’s a bit bigger than I expected. People who earlier wrote that it’s ‘pocketable’ in a jacket or coat must dress more substantially than here in the Antipodes and there’s no coat I possess that would accommodate it! Without doubt I’d want a modest sized Crumpler bag or similar to protect and carry it when not in use.

It’s a bit bigger than I expected and larger than my old Bessa I 6x9 folder. Certainly a lot bigger than my old Perkeo II folder which had the f2.8 lens and must surely have been one of the most compact 6x6 cameras ever made. That one was certainly pocketable. Nevertheless, the great viewfinder, split-image focusing and integrated metering makes the Bessa II a much easier and quicker camera to use.

It feels heavy – substantial – in the hand but the impression is a bit misleading. It weighs in at 1049g with strap and battery but no film. By contrast my Rolleiflex f2.8 Planar weighs 1303g without film. Quite a difference but the Rolleiflex, appearing to be more compact, really doesn’t feel any different in weight when you pick it up unless you have one camera in each hand to compare. I guess 250g isn’t that much really.

Loading was easy – standard 120 folder practice but also exactly as set out in the instruction manual. I had read reports that some had had a problem with the finished film unwinding as it was being taken from the camera. The tension spring that holds the roll appears to have little effect, but on testing with a full roll of film there was a deceptively larger amount of tension there than appeared to be the case just from visual inspection. I’m sure as long as you keep some finger pressure on the rolled film whilst removing the spool there won’t be a problem.

In the hand, the Bessa III feels large compared to the Rolleiflex. Of course, you’re viewing the Rolleiflex from directly above which is its smallest footprint and viewing the Bessa from the angle which shows its greatest dimensions but there’s no getting away from the fact that the Bessa feels larger. Maybe I’ll get used to it in use. I took some comparative photos of the two cameras side by side, closed and open which might indicate the relative size of each.

So far so good. The tactile response in actual use will be something to experience and a comparison between the results from both cameras using the same film stock will also be interesting. I’ll post something again after I get the prints and scans back but that’s likely to be a month down the track due to other commitments.

[Leigh Youdale]

Here are some more photos

[Leigh Youdale]

I thought Scott must have put the strap on - it has a Voigtlander logo. What I can't quite get my head around at the moment is how huge the thing is compared to the Perkeo!

[buzzardkid]

damn, that viewfinder looks big!

Great camera, I'd love to shoot one!

[Keith]

One of the disconcerting things about that camera is although it has the presence of a Hummer ... when you press the shutter there is virtually no sound!

In spite of it's size it does feel good in the hands though ... I found the ergonomics spot on. :)

[Jamie123]

The strap comes with the camera. Didn't you get one, chippy??

The camera is not small by any means but I would say it's 'portable' (tbut not 'pocketable'). I mainly use it in 6x7 so for me it's a comparison between this and a Mamiya 7II or a Pentax 67II compared to which it's certainly more compact.

The only thing I really don't like about the camera is the placement of the strap lugs. They should have left them like they were on the prototype.

[Leigh Youdale]

Second Impressions

Today I went out shooting with both the Rolleiflex and the Bessa III. Whereas on unpacking the Bessa I was a bit daunted by its apparent size, in use I found I quickly lost that impression and found it very easy to use. It hangs by its strap quite easily from the shoulder when closed, does not feel heavy, and is easily steadied whilst walking by slight arm pressure. The Rolleiflex, on the other hand sits rather heavily on the chest, bounces around a bit and pulls on the neck but otherwise is probably easier to carry in a ready-to-shoot state. (I prefer to carry the Rollei like this as it’s easier to use the viewfinder).
I’m sure that with practice you could develop a “quick-draw” method of unslinging the Bessa from the shoulder and opening it in one movement – rather like the gunfighters of old!
I think the Rollei is easier to use undetected for street and candid photography as you don’t have to hold it up in front of your face to make the shot.

Others have remarked on how quiet the Bessa shutter is. Even forewarned I was not prepared for just how quiet it is – a couple of times I was unsure that it had actually operated. The focus ring and meter are very easy to use, especially in AE mode and a plus for me is that I can use the Bessa without spectacles, which I find I need for the Rolleiflex. I didn't have a problem with the rangefinder patch disappearing - probably got used to this with the two 35mm Bessas I have!

I had no problem unloading the exposed film – it didn’t unwind, but I do need to wind it on a bit more as the end of the paper was still free when I opened the camera. All in all I was pleasantly surprised by the Bessa after my initial impressions.

The results will be a little while in coming as the free Kodal Pro film issued as part of the Travelling Bessa Project has to go back to the sponsoring lab for processing.
As I used the same film stock and same exposures for duplicate shots on the Rolleiflex it will be interesting to see if there is any detectable difference in negative quality.

[Jamie123]

Chippy,
that's a bummer about the missing strap. You should call your dealer and tell them to send you one. It should definitely be in the box with the camera. It's a pretty nice narrow strap with the Voigtländer logo.

As for the strap lugs, they should indeed have included a third strap lug like in the prototype:

http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00O/00OFPn-41430484.jpg

Also notice how the lug for sideways carrying is on the right side (photographer's perspective). This would also have been very nice as it would have made it possible to attach a hand strap for a better grip.

[Leigh Youdale]

Jamie, I think you'll find that like me, "Chippy" is a member of the "test panel" that the B3 is circulating through in Australia as a loan camera to try out, and the camera I have in my hands right now is the same one he had previously. It now has a strap, no doubt supplied by the kind distributor as it passed through his office between testers. I don't think Chippy actually bought a B3 yet.

Andrew, good point about the bellows and rapid deployment. I hadn't (and now won't) try that! But I will try carrying it from the neck and see how that feels.
I'm posting my first two films to Horsham tomorrow. I took 6x7 on the Bessa. The photos I took are virtually duplicated on the Rolleiflex and so it was an easy way to distinguish which camera the negatives came from. As the Bessa achieves the format change simply by masking each side of the 6x7 gate there is no change in lens to film distance and no change in angle of view, so as long as you ignore the half centimetre each side of the 6x7 when comparing the negatives the images should yield the same result optically. The format change is simply a result of different masking.

[Jamie123]

ah! thats it Jamie! excatly like that pic is what it needed to be! with a special custom (wrist or grip) strap to pad the inside of the hand and to wrap around the outside would make it even better to hold..

not that anyone is going to pull one of these apart {yet} but i bet those strap lugs could be attached one way or another...it makes me wonder why on earth they changed their mind to move the strap lugs when they had it right to begin with! no doubt some kind of structural prohibitation

Yeah, I wonder, too. But oh well, there's not much we can do about it :)

As far as holding is concerned, for me the method pictured on page 6 of the manual (http://www.chiifcameras.com/site2/images/Bessa_III_667_Manual.pdf) works best. The camera rests on my left palm and I use the thumb to focus and set aperture. This way I don't need to grip the camera too hard with my right hand and there's no strain on my fingers. It works very well for me but I also have big hands which helps.

[Steve M.]

Thanks for posting the comparison photos. Never thought I'd see a MF folder that made a Bessa II and a Rolleiflex 2.8 look compact. When you see the camera on the web you don't get any conception of it's actual size.

I usually carry a Rolleiflex w/ a regular camera strap slipped through it's eyelets and sling the camera over my shoulder. Makes it a lot more comfortable to carry (or as comfortable as a large TLR can be), and I just pull the front strap w/ my thumb and slip it over to the front under my arm when I want to shoot. Takes a little practice but it takes next to no time to have the camera ready once you get used to it.

It would be enlightening if you post a couple of the identical photos that you took w/ the Rolleiflex. I have a hunch which camera will win the shootout, but it would be good to see anyway.

[Leigh Youdale]

Australia Post is having a holiday today, no doubt to get a long weekend for everyone, so I can't mail my films for processing until Monday. It will likely be the end of next week before I have anything to post.
I'm interested to see the comparison too - a 50+ year-old legendary lens with slight separation around the edge (doesn't seem to be apparent even at f2.8) against a new-generation Heliar f3.5. The Heliar design is legendary too and Cosina seem to have got the manufacture of new lenses pretty well nailed, so, yes, it will be interesting. Unless there's no discernable difference - what then?

[Leigh Youdale]

Hanging Loose.
I tried a few different carrying methods today. My Rolleiflex case is commodious enough that I can leave the lens hood on when the case is closed. It makes it a bit of a lump but actually carries quite comfortably on my right shoulder - more comfortably than round my neck, and it's comparatively easy to swing it round to the front ready to use without 'unshipping' it as long as the strap isn't too short.
On the other hand I did not find the B3 comfortable when hanging from my neck in front. What seemed to work best was to hang it from my left shoulder, lens side out, and reach across with my right hand whilst simultaneously using my left thumb to slip the strap off my shoulder. Unlatch the front and shoot as normal. After closing the front just use the left hand to bring the strap back to the shoulder and it's back to the start.

[arseniii]

Awesome camera! Some actual images it produces, please...

[John NYC]

Awesome camera! Some actual images it produces, please...

Lots of photos from the Bessa (and Fuji branded version of same) in these flickr groups...

http://www.flickr.com/groups/voigtlander_bessa_iii/

http://www.flickr.com/groups/fujifilm_gf670/

[Jamie123]

Australia Post is having a holiday today, no doubt to get a long weekend for everyone, so I can't mail my films for processing until Monday. It will likely be the end of next week before I have anything to post.
I'm interested to see the comparison too - a 50+ year-old legendary lens with slight separation around the edge (doesn't seem to be apparent even at f2.8) against a new-generation Heliar f3.5. The Heliar design is legendary too and Cosina seem to have got the manufacture of new lenses pretty well nailed, so, yes, it will be interesting. Unless there's no discernable difference - what then?

I'm pretty sure the Rolleiflex's pictures will be slightly more pleasing to the eye than the Bessa's. Not sharper but maybe a bit smoother. Also, I'm not sure the Heliar on the Bessa is actually a Heliar design (not that I care much for lens designs anyways).

Anyways, I love my Bessa III and don't regret selling my Hasselblad kit at all. I love that it's both 6x6 and 6x7, I love the easy film loading, I love the silent shutter (!), I love the automatic exposure and the included meter. However, what I love most of all is that I don't feel like it's a ticking time bomb sitting in my bag. I had quite an extensive Hasselblad kit (various lenses, backs and lots of accessories) and one part or the other was always giving me trouble. Either it was a sticking shutter in one of the lenses or a back giving me overlapping frames. Somehow I find it quite comforting that the Bessa is not entirely mechanical. :)

[Leigh Youdale]

A Slight Disappointment.
I loaded another film into B3 today and took it (with other cameras) to photograph a friend's wedding, with high expectations. On the first frame I noticed that the exposure indication in the viewfinder was not illuminated. Same again on the second frame.
The indicated condition would point to a low battery, and yet two days ago there was no flashing of the lights to indicate the battery was getting low and on every frame the shutter/meter appeared to function normally.
I checked the battery on a multimeter when I got home and it's showing 2.9v which I would have thought was enough, but maybe it's below a critical level or maybe I've got a sudden circuit break in the camera itself. Of course, I didn't have a spare battery. (Lesson #1).
Tomorrow I'll get a new battery and see if that overcomes the problem.

[Leigh Youdale]

Post-Operative Medical Report.
Happily B3 is alive and well. The transplant operation (new battery) went well, according to expectation, and the patient has been released for normal activities.
Now to shoot off the remaining eight frames!

[Leigh Youdale]

Well, we got over the battery issue but today I set out to finish the film (knowing that the first two frames would be blank.
What happened next seems a bit of a mystery. I finished the film (as I thought) and wound on. In retrospect the ease with which the winding knob turned might have alerted me but on opening the camera the film had not fully wound onto the takeup spool. The backing paper was showing frame number 12, or thereabouts, so it wasn't far from the end. I closed the camera, wound on again without any success, reopened it and removed the spools and finished winding on by hand. At least the last two frames will have been spoiled.
I'll sacrifice a roll of FP4+ through it next to see whether it's a definite problem with the winding mechanism or just something random. Bit disconcerting though - I was going to use it to photograph my daughter's wedding on Saturday but I don't think I'll risk it now.

[Leigh Youdale]

I've been racking my brains since my last post, trying to figure out what went wrong. There seems to be nothing wrong with the wind-on after loading the FP4 and I'm starting to think I had a "senior moment" and didn't pay attention to what I was doing. I'm strongly right handed and I'm guessing that, without thinking or looking (I was in conversation with a couple of people at the time), I did what I've caught myself doing several times with this camera and tried to wind on clockwise. The winder knob has to be turned anti-clockwise which is counter-intuitive for me. If you turn it clockwise the ratchet just idles around forever until you wake up to yourself!
So, probably nothing at all wrong with the camera and nothing at all wrong with me that can't be remedied by a sharp blow to the forehead.

[Way]

Hi Leigh,

I too had the B3 do some funny electronic things, mainly weird flashing shutter speeds when it shouldn't. It was remedied by changing the battery. I haven't had the film do an incomplete rewind and I hope that yours was a one time problem. I always make sure that I put some tension on the full spool so the take up spool is wound snuggly when loading film.

[Steve M.]

Some shots from this camera are finally starting to show up on the internet sites. While it's always iffy to judge a lens based on web images, what I'm seeing now looks a lot better than the shots I'd seen months ago. The lens looks very sharp, and even seems to have a bit of the classic Heliar signature at times. I had originally thought this camera was a huge mistake and should be rethought, but the newer images that people are posting show it has a very good lens. Sure is a big camera though! Ah well, my Bessa II is biggish as well.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=bessa%20III&w=all#page=0

[Jamie123]

Hi Leigh,

I too had the B3 do some funny electronic things, mainly weird flashing shutter speeds when it shouldn't. It was remedied by changing the battery. I haven't had the film do an incomplete rewind and I hope that yours was a one time problem. I always make sure that I put some tension on the full spool so the take up spool is wound snuggly when loading film.

I've had the shutter speeds flashing, too, and was a bit surprised that the battery was low already but then remembered that I had done a few long exposures which might have drained the battery a bit. Besides, I never expect the batteries that are shipped with the camera to last very long.

[Way]

Steven,

Just wondering what you didn't like about the pictures posted a few months back?


Some shots from this camera are finally starting to show up on the internet sites. While it's always iffy to judge a lens based on web images, what I'm seeing now looks a lot better than the shots I'd seen months ago. The lens looks very sharp, and even seems to have a bit of the classic Heliar signature at times. I had originally thought this camera was a huge mistake and should be rethought, but the newer images that people are posting show it has a very good lens. Sure is a big camera though! Ah well, my Bessa II is biggish as well.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=bessa%20III&w=all#page=0

[Jamie123]

By the way, if someone's in the market for one, I just saw a used Bessa III being sold on another forum for $2100.

[Leigh Youdale]

First Week.
Just a quick update after the first week. The size of the camera is no longer apparent and it's very easy to use. Apart from having to fit a new battery and my own stupidity in not winding one film on correctly there have been no problems at all. Have run some B&W through it which I'll hopefully get around to processing this week and should also have some of the colour shots back by next weekend after which I have to send the camera on to the next person on the list.

[Leigh Youdale]

Summary after two weeks.

1. The apparent size of the Bessa is not a problem. One quickly gets used to it. Compared to other 6x7 cameras it’s compact. However, it’s not a pocket camera and needs a bag of some kind – doesn’t need to be huge though.
2. Loading and unloading is very straightforward and simple.
3. For an MF camera it’s pretty much useable as a point-and-shoot using AE.
4. The meter appears to be very capable even though it’s not TTL.
5. Always carry a spare battery!
6. Always wind on anti-clockwise!
7. People are curious about the camera, so there’s no need to hide it.
8. The f3.5 lens is not a drawback. With the longer focal length, the depth of field is pretty close to a f2.8/50mm lens on a 35mm camera.
9. The front element of the lens is not recessed to any extent and the use of a lens hood should be pretty much standard practice. Only problem with that is you have to remove the hood each time you want to close the camera or else carry it around open. (The hood also carries the filter if one is in use).
10. I’m undecided about the usefulness of both 6x7 and 6x6 formats. I shot 6x7 on this camera and 6x6 on the Rolleiflex. I think the formats are a bit too similar, but then I’m used to square format. You can’t change format with film in the camera so it probably gets down to personal preference. Holding it in portrait (vertical) format with 6x7 wasn’t a problem but horizontal is easier for focusing.
11. The shutter is vibrationless and almost noiseless. Remarkable!
12. Turning the focus to infinity to close the camera quickly becomes automatic.
13. If I didn’t have the Rolleiflex I’d want a Bessa III. If the image quality from B3 turns out to be better than the Rollei then maybe I’ll sell the Rollei to help finance the Bessa. When I get the prints and scans back from Horsham I’ll have the answer! ☺

I should be able to post some scans early next week.

[pstevenin]

Regarding DOF, I count a little bit differently.

MF to 35mm is around 1 stop and 80/3.5 to 50/2.8 is also around 1 stop, so after some use of it and looking at print of approx' the same size I'd rather compare the DOF to a 50/2 or even a 50/1.7. There's not calculation behind that but only the way I feel the gear (and my body) behaves.

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I sold a near mint Bessa II (the 1951 model) because I found it too heavy and too big to use it without a tripod. Only shot one role of film with it. Guess the Bessa III is quite comparable looking at the pictures.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2068/2483033942_4754a0e112.jpg

[Leigh Youdale]

[QUOTE=Ron (Netherlands);1234079]I sold a near mint Bessa II (the 1951 model) because I found it too heavy and too big to use it without a tripod. Only shot one role of film with it. Guess the Bessa III is quite comparable looking at the pictures./QUOTE]

I had two models of the Bessa I and understand your comments. I also sold mine in the end. Basically I think you're correct except that the B3 is far easier to use with a brilliant and large viewfinder/rangefinder and an electronic shutter so you don't have to set the shutter at all on AE mode and you don't have to cock the shutter mechanism even if you're on Manual.

[Leigh Youdale]

Got back two rolls of Fuji Pro 160C today (from my local lab - not the ones I sent to Horsham Colour Lab) and after enlarging some of the scans of duplicate shots I have to say that the Rolleiflex appears to have a slight edge over the Bessa in sharpness, but that both produce quite acceptable images at normal A4 print size. The difference only becomes apparent when you compare the images side by side at actual pixel size on the screen. At commercial 6x6 and 6x8 (inch) print size you can't really discern the difference by eye until you use an 8x or 10x loupe on the prints.

I haven't tried printing them any larger at present and probably won't - there doesn't seem to be any need or point to that.

I'll wait for the films to arrive back from Horsham next week to make up my mind finally, but at this stage the Rollei is in front by a whisker (or maybe even two).

[sircarl]

Leigh,

Interesting. Are there any noticeable differences between the two cameras in image contrast, rendering, bokeh etc.?

[Leigh Youdale]

Leigh,

Interesting. Are there any noticeable differences between the two cameras in image contrast, rendering, bokeh etc.?

"Rendering" is a term I only understand in terms of meatworks and building finishes. Maybe you can give me some other words to describe what you mean.

I think the Rollei has a little more contrast, but not a lot. This was also noted by another Aussie tester I've talked to who did the same comparison and we've put it down to (maybe) the lens coating and also (maybe) the need for a hood to be used more on the Bessa due to the fairly exposed front element of the lens. I get the feeling (but without any testing) that it might be a little susceptible to light rays coming from the side.

Bokeh I'm not too sure about yet. Of these first prints I only have three or four closeup baby shots at f3.5 or f4 and the background is pleasantly soft to my eyes but the photos were taken out of doors. I'll reserve judgement on this aspect until the other films come back. Can't remember what was on them or whether any of them might show any bokeh so I'll wait until next week on that one.

[sircarl]

"Rendering"? Good question. I've never seen a definition. But from discussions here on RFF, I gather it means the overall impression you get of how the lens translates an image onto film (or a sensor) -- a combination of its resolving power, micro contrast, flare (if any), bokeh, and probably other factors as well. If someone here has a more precise way of explaining it, please chime in.

[John NYC]

[QUOTE=Ron (Netherlands);1234079]I sold a near mint Bessa II (the 1951 model) because I found it too heavy and too big to use it without a tripod. Only shot one role of film with it. Guess the Bessa III is quite comparable looking at the pictures./QUOTE]

I had two models of the Bessa I and understand your comments. I also sold mine in the end. Basically I think you're correct except that the B3 is far easier to use with a brilliant and large viewfinder/rangefinder and an electronic shutter so you don't have to set the shutter at all on AE mode and you don't have to cock the shutter mechanism even if you're on Manual.

The Bessa III is very easily handholdable and not any heavier than using a DSLR with a decent weight lens, but more comfortable in shape to my hands. I often shoot handheld at insanely slow shutter speeds in almost darkness and still get very sharp results, possibly due to its completely silky and quiet shutter.

[Leigh Youdale]

Here are some shots taken on Delta 3200 @ 1600 ISO.

[Leigh Youdale]

Someone asked about bokeh. This isn't the greatest baby photo ever but it does give an idea of the B3 bokeh, I think.

[Leigh Youdale]

Same shots taken on Rolleiflex and Bessa III. Not much in it.

[Leigh Youdale]

Here are two screen shots of part of the previous beach scenes, taken from PSE Actual pixels view x 200%.

[Leigh Youdale]

The prints of the duplicated Rollei vs Bessa comparison arrived yesterday and, after my last posting, I was a little surprised.
With both lots of negatives of identical subjects enlarged to the same magnification (8x8 or 8x10) in all but one pair of frames I'd have to say the Bessa wins in terms of sharpness, rendition and overall appearance.

Not by much though. The Rollei shots look perfectly acceptable until you put them side by side with the Bessa equivalents. The differences are subtle but detectable to the eye. I doubt they'd show up on a computer screen but in the print the difference is definitely there.

In the one pair that looks better from the Rollei I have to qualify my impression because it's clear from the shadows that the sun was partly obscured for the Rollei shot but obviously came out for the Bessa shot so the exposures are not exactly matching.

It's not enough of a difference to make me immediately rush out and sell the Rolleiflex, but it's enough to cause me to start thinking!

[Solinar]

An excellent write up Leigh. I am now seriously considering an older American made Crown Graphic 23 - since I prefer 6x9.

[John NYC]

The prints of the duplicated Rollei vs Bessa comparison arrived yesterday and, after my last posting, I was a little surprised.
With both lots of negatives of identical subjects enlarged to the same magnification (8x8 or 8x10) in all but one pair of frames I'd have to say the Bessa wins in terms of sharpness, rendition and overall appearance.

Not by much though. The Rollei shots look perfectly acceptable until you put them side by side with the Bessa equivalents. The differences are subtle but detectable to the eye. I doubt they'd show up on a computer screen but in the print the difference is definitely there.


I wonder if it is lens sharpness or local contrast emphasis that is making the differences in the way the prints look. The Bessa III lens is very contrast-y I find, compared to my Hasselblad. I don't have a Rollei to compare it to.

[Leigh Youdale]

I wonder if it is lens sharpness or local contrast emphasis that is making the differences in the way the prints look. The Bessa III lens is very contrast-y I find, compared to my Hasselblad. I don't have a Rollei to compare it to.

John, I think you have a valid point in one regard. My prints certainly exhibit some of that - but there is also a slight softness evident in the Rollei shots. It's not all that obvious or something that I think I'd particularly notice without the side-by-side comparison I did of duplicated shots on the same film batch and processed in the same (professional) colour lab.
The Bessa contrast might well be the reason I'm perceiving slightly richer colour in those prints too. (Read "rendition"). It would be interesting (but maybe a bit academic now) to repeat the tests using black and white film thereby eliminating the colour effect and looking solely at contrast and sharpness. But what would that prove, in the end?
I'm also conscious that my Planar f2.8 lens is 52 years old and any effects I'm seeing could be as much a product of that particular lens' age as it could be in design and materials. My lens is in good shape with no fungus or scratches - but in other threads and with other lenses guys wax lyrical about the characteristics of some older lenses and actually seek them out just for this reason, so possibly we're seeing something of the same thing here.

[Tom A]

I got back my Rollei 75f3.5 Planar after service a week ago. For the hell of it I loaded both the Bessa III and the Rollei with some old Tri X (1987 vintage) as I wanted a low contrast film ( and residual fog does provide that).
In one of Vancouvers suburbs there is a strange sculpture, part of an Art Biennale, of Lenin's head with Ms Mao balancing on top!!!
I shot a handful of rolls (in 6x6 with the Bessa) and compared the negatives/scans. The Bessa III looks a bit sharper (resolution wise) and with slightly higher contrast than the Rollei (which of course is 50+ years older). Metering with the Bessa was spot on - not an easy task with a 5 meter high "head" made from polished alloy!! I simple transferred the readings from the Bessa to the Rollei (whose meter is showing signs of age).
AS for handling, I ahven't shot with any Rollei for 10-12 years so part of the process was to relearn holding one! The Bessa has had about 50-60 rolls through it since I got it.
Conclusion: Either camera will do well and in reality, you wont see much difference between images shot with one or the other - at least not in bl/w. I do prefer the Bessa's handling as it is close to handling a 35mm rangefinder (focus patch, focus action etc). The AE is a bonus. Folded up it is more convinient to drag around than the Rollei - but it takes a couple of seconds more to set up.
As a "trip" camera I would prefer the Bessa as a complement to my regular 35 rangefinders (with spare batteries packed). The Rollie works better on a tripod though - more natural viewing.
The Heliar lens is good, really good. My Planar 75f3.5 is a bit prone to flare - even after cleaning some of the internal fog. There is a bit of Imogen Cunningham/Richard Avedon feel to the Rollei that the Bessa lacks.
If you go to Flickr and our site - click on Bessa III and some of these shots will show. Still haven't figured out how to shift images into RFf.

[Leigh Youdale]

Thanks for those photos Tom. I keep going over the prints from my "tests", trying to justify buying a Bessa III. :-) The main group are all 8x8 or 8x10 inch enlargements and in those, with careful scrutiny sometimes aided by a magnifying glass, you can see that the Heliar lens IS sharper. And I agree the contrast is a tad more. But without a side by side comparison or at lesser magnifications (say 6 inches x 6 inches from another test run I did) it's not easy to spot any real difference. Still, knowing that it's there tends to create an element of dissatisfaction. That, plus the convenience of the viewfinder, better focus (even with a Maxwell screen in the Rollei) and better shutter is creating a delicious dilemma!

By the way, I discovered that if you click on the "Go Advanced" button under this Quick Reply message field and work down the advanced menu that appears you'll find a link that says "Manage Attachments" and that in turn opens a window that stipulates acceptable image sizes and allows you to upload up to three images (one a a time) with each message you post.

[Tom A]

Thanks Leigh. I have tried that stuff and they keep vanishing into that great hard drive in the sky!
Nothing worse than the nagging feeling that camera A is marginally better than camera B - and the instant desire to buy! I know it well.
There is a lot of discussion about Bessa pricing. Have anyone checked the prices for the last (latest!) Rollie's lately. Makes Bessa's seem like bargain's.
The Rollie is a different animal than the Bessa. The Bessa comes along with a M2 or MP Leica as a supplemental camera. The Rollei goes out on its own. Dont know why - but the Rollei likes to be alone.

[Leigh Youdale]

Thanks Leigh. I have tried that stuff and they keep vanishing into that great hard drive in the sky!

Nothing worse than the nagging feeling that camera A is marginally better than camera B - and the instant desire to buy! I know it well.
There is a lot of discussion about Bessa pricing. Have anyone checked the prices for the last (latest!) Rollie's lately. Makes Bessa's seem like bargain's.

The Rollie is a different animal than the Bessa. The Bessa comes along with a M2 or MP Leica as a supplemental camera. The Rollei goes out on its own. Dont know why - but the Rollei likes to be alone.


I'm getting a bit worried that one day all that lost in space stuff is going to reach critical mass somewhere up there and fall on us!

I don't think I want to comment on the Bessa pricing! Some people have had unrealistic expectations, I think. And some never had the money in the first place and were just venting their disappointment.

I'd probably keep the Rollei but for the same reason I switched to using Bessa R3/4 cameras instead of my Nikkormat. Eyesight! I find using a rangefinder with split image so much easier these days and although the Rollei has a Maxwell Hi-Lux screen and is much better for it, there are lighting and subject situations where the Rollei screen is slow and difficult to focus. There's also the factor that using the Bessa 667 is so similar to the 35mm Bessas that you don't have to do a mental jump because the controls and operation are so different.

Along with about 20 other Aussie photographers I'm hanging out for the draw at the end of the project. Some lucky person will win the Travelling Bessa for their very own! Scott tells me there are still eight people to get their chance to use it and the raffle won't take place until (probably) July. That seems a long time to wait now.

[Leigh Youdale]

got some more pictures? some comparisons perhaps (or not), doesnt matter..pictures are interesting is all

Yes, I have all the scans from Horsham, but I'm a bit pressed for time as I'm going away for the next three weeks. Also I'm not at all sure that posting the pics will be useful. By the time they've been compressed down from 25MB to a size that can be posted here, then expanded and viewed at 72 dpi the slight differences between the two lenses will be undetectable, I think. And they were taken for purposes of comparison, not as art!
There are a couple up on Scott's blog. One of an old school building, one of my daughter taken on Delta 3200 and one taken at the beach.
But try this crop of one shot. It started as 6x7.

[Leigh Youdale]

Here's another in Delta 3200.

[Leigh Youdale]

And three more on Kodak Pro 160.

[jmilkins]

The well travelled Aussie Bessa has arrived and its all mine for 2 whole weeks. Bewdy mate!

Its 9 degrees outside at the moment..a bit colder than when Leigh's shots were taken above but I'm raring to go.

I gather we Melbournites are the last few to have it before it wings its way back to Scott at Mainline.

[Leigh Youdale]

The well travelled Aussie Bessa has arrived and its all mine for 2 whole weeks. Bewdy mate!

Its 9 degrees outside at the moment..a bit colder than when Leigh's shots were taken above but I'm raring to go.

I gather we Melbournites are the last few to have it before it wings its way back to Scott at Mainline.

Enjoy it! If the countryside is bleak for scenic work, maybe some inner city shots might suit.

[Leigh Youdale]

Well, the project is almost at an end. On return the camera will get a service and then there will be a raffle, with the winner able to purchase the camera at a substantial discount. Someone is going to be a happy camper!

Scott informs me -
"The Raffle will go ahead as planned and the price
due to extra 2 participants is going to be $795.00 :)

I will email everyone on the list in the next few days
to double check if they still wish to be in on the raffle.

BTW after nearly a year and a half crisscrossing the country
in it's little box and over 20 folks using it for two weeks
it has survived very well with only one rangefinder adjustment."

And before anyone starts thinking the price quoted above is some sort of benchmark second hand price for the Bessa III, remember this was a special one-off deal worked out for 20 photographers to have a chance to trial the camera and for one to get lucky at the end.

I'd like to win it and couple it with the newly announced GW667. It's a combination that would suit my photography very well!

[Robland]

21 sounds like a more round number....

[Mister E]

What happened to all of the pictures in the thread?

[jmilkins]

I loved having the Mainline Travelling Bessa to play with for my couple of weeks and certainly want in on the raffle!

I haven't got my shots back yet from Horsham Colour (my delay not theirs) but started this flickR http://www.flickr.com/groups/1216006@N23/for poeple's shots - uploads welcome if they've disappeared from here. I'll scan some other shots I took and had developed quickly to see how they looked before I sent the couple of rolls to Horsham.

[Leigh Youdale]

One week to go and some fortunate person from amongst the 24 who participated in the project will be an excited owner of the Travelling Bessa III.

[jmilkins]

Congrats to the lucky winner and good on ya Mainline and Horsham Colour!

[Leigh Youdale]

Yes, a great chance to try this very interesting camera out for an extended period and now it's ended with one lucky winner. Thanks Scott and Mainline and thanks too go to Horsham Colour for their generous participation with free Pro film and processing.
Now it's back to using the Rolleiflex for a while and a further wait to see what eventuates with the Fuji GF667W.

[Fotohuis]

C.V. Bessa III 667 and Fuji Reala 100:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/5192478216_483af071ee.jpg

Around Ravenstein, the small city I live in. (The Netherlands)