View Full Version : M9 paint flaking off engraving. Options?
scottwallick
11-30-2009, 06:51
After a day shy of two weeks with the M9, I'm really pleased with this camera. Although, I must admit I'm slightly stumped by the learning curve associated with digital post-processing. That is another thread.
And perhaps I will have some time to just play with my photos on my computer, as I'm considering sending my M9 back to Leica. See attached image.
The paint has started to flake off the 'M9'. While my M9 has performed fine, exposures are as I take them, rangefinder is spot on, buttons respond, etc., I'm a bit disappointed that after just two weeks I have paint wear.
This is, after all, my 'first Leica', and I'd at least like to have it look new while it is new. It's one of those things that will just bug me if I let is slide. Or maybe I should. Haven't made up my mind.
Thoughts?
Pickett Wilson
11-30-2009, 06:53
Well, it will soon be "stealth" without your even trying. ;)
Sure shouldn't be happening, but I don't know that I would give it up for the time it will take Leica to get it back to you over flaking paint. Could effect resale value, though.
I´d try the route via the dealer you bought it from and let them take the trouble with Leica. Talk them into giving you an other camera with the paint intact. It seems silly - at that price - to be without a camera for weeks!
At least - get a loaner!
justins7
11-30-2009, 07:03
Just use a bit of white nail polish, wipe it off of the surrounding black areas. I've done it before.
sojournerphoto
11-30-2009, 07:07
Contact dealer and ask for a loan body if they want to send it away
Mike
SolaresLarrave
11-30-2009, 07:15
Less expensive Leicas don't do this, and your shouldn't be doing it either. Show it to the dealer or store from which you purchased the camera; they should do something about it.
Nikon Bob
11-30-2009, 08:01
That is a mighty small quibble with the M9 but for the price you pay you have ever right to expect this not to happen so soon after purchase. See what the dealer you bought it from will do for you first. Either an exchange for another new one or a loaner while they send yours to Leica for repair.
Bob
Steve Ash
11-30-2009, 08:07
Actually I know some including myself who like it more without the paint and remove it. I did so after mine started to come off at very hot day and long time of shooting. I suppose that sweaty fingers peeled it off.
Regards
Steve
Benjamin
11-30-2009, 08:09
I voted "live with it" because everything else is spot-on with the camera. I tape over my logos. Not because Hank Bresson did, but mainly to avoid the "weenie factor" of friendly strangers pointing at my camera and hollering, "Is that a Pentax? My brother-in-law shoots Nikon!". I also am averse to advertising for others unless I am PAID to do so. So I tape over the logos of Canon, Holga, Voigtlander, Zeiss Ikon, GE (kitchen appliances) and so on. I also don't wear clothing with logos or sayings. I let a black waterproof marker seep into the bright white threads of the annoying "THE NORTH FACE" logo on my jacket and biking gloves. (Are you getting the picture?)
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif .
Roger Hicks
11-30-2009, 08:13
That is a mighty small quibble with the M9 but for the price you pay you have ever right to expect this not to happen so soon after purchase. See what the dealer you bought it from will do for you first. Either an exchange for another new one or a loaner while they send yours to Leica for repair.
Bob
Absolutely. I think Leica might be interested in why it's coming off, too.
Cheers,
R.
If it works mechanically and optically, I would keep it. You never know what the replacement will be like.
Just use a bit of white nail polish, wipe it off of the surrounding black areas. I've done it before.
Have you done that before on a black paint body, or on black chrome?
I'd have thought the acetone in the nail polish would also stand a good chance of removing the black paint. Perhaps its better to use some Humbrol white hobby paint, which is spirit based and not at all likely to attack the black lacquer if any needs wiping off.
Steve
scottwallick
11-30-2009, 08:23
Thanks for the feedback, all. I sent my dealer an email—they are really stand up guys—so after they get back to me, I'll follow up with what I decide.
If the engravings showed wear after six or even three months of use, I would let it go and enjoy the developing character of the body.
But this early on and as a principle of good consumerism, I think I'm going to see it corrected even if it's only a cosmetic issue.
Maybe without an M9 in my hands, I will find the time to share my thoughts in a post here. ;)
Have them give you a 30% credit, I would keep it if they do. Sorry that sucks it should not do that for 7k. Take it back to the dealer.
Jamie123
11-30-2009, 09:23
Yeah, send it back. Some people here will surely tell you all about how a camera is used for taking pictures and that cosmetics don't matter, etc. etc..
But the fact remains that, should you ever decide to sell, the flaking will shave at least $100 off the asking price compared to an immaculate one.
Al Kaplan
11-30-2009, 09:36
Why is it that a generation that pays hrough the nose for jeans that have been sandpapered, beaten on rocks 'til they're , bleached, torn, and ripped, wants a pristine new looking camera? When you were a little tot we all wanted to look like we'd survived a war or two, crawled through the Vietnamese jungle or Kuwaiti sand on our bellies, knife clenched in our teeth, Leicas being dragged along behind us. What's next for the properly attired Leica shooter? A make-up mirror on the back flap? Please excuse my rant.
And if you ever do use that camera to make a few bucks that $100 won't matter at all. Don't even get me started on half cases (sorry, Luigi) and how many missed shots they'll cause, or how careful you'll need to be not to scuff the elegant leather finish.
digitalintrigue
11-30-2009, 10:05
Let the paint flake off and have a stealth M9. Take off the red dot and put on a black one, or tape over it.
Before you sell it, spent $2 on a white paint stick from Micro Tools and fill it with white.
;)
Just do what feels best to you.
scottwallick
11-30-2009, 10:18
Please excuse my rant.
What was at issue was whether or not the loss of paint soon after receipt qualified as a defect.
Apologies to all for inciting righteous indignation.
Pickett Wilson
11-30-2009, 10:20
It's a defect. Paint shouldn't flake off a $7,000 camera within days.
digitalintrigue
11-30-2009, 10:21
Yes, it's a defect. A defect many people actually prefer. :)
scottwallick
11-30-2009, 10:33
Yes, it's a defect. A defect many people actually prefer. :)
That's a good point, i.e., consider the number of 'stealthing' threads.
Like a 20-year-old with gray hair, perhaps I should think of it as premature aging. :p
Why is it that a generation that pays hrough the nose for jeans that have been sandpapered, beaten on rocks 'til they're , bleached, torn, and ripped, wants a pristine new looking camera? When you were a little tot we all wanted to look like we'd survived a war or two, crawled through the Vietnamese jungle or Kuwaiti sand on our bellies, knife clenched in our teeth, Leicas being dragged along behind us. What's next for the properly attired Leica shooter? A make-up mirror on the back flap? Please excuse my rant.
And if you ever do use that camera to make a few bucks that $100 won't matter at all. Don't even get me started on half cases (sorry, Luigi) and how many missed shots they'll cause, or how careful you'll need to be not to scuff the elegant leather finish.
And why is it that people feel the need to generalise? Not EVERYONE in the OP's generation wants things to look broken-in.
Besides, the OP paid full price for something he wanted and so deserves to get it in the "new" condition in which he expected it to arrive and wants a reasonable explanation as to why some of the paint is already wearing off after a couple of weeks of ownership. Nothing wrong with that, especially for a camera that costs as much as it does.
Personally, I might just live with it (if I were willing to pay for a new M9, which I'm not) but I don't begrudge the OP for considering his options in this matter.
That's a good point, i.e., consider the number of 'stealthing' threads.
Like a 20-year-old with gray hair, perhaps I should think of it as premature aging. :p
That's a positive spin. Certain manufactured items like double struck coins that have defects maintain large premiums. I like the stealth look of your M9 BTW.
I kinda think the defect is cool. What would be cooler is if the rest of the paint on the engraving also came off unintentially, but I like the red dot.
Calzone
spyder2000
11-30-2009, 11:05
I think I'd use a toothpick and remove the rest of that white paint.
thomasw_
11-30-2009, 11:21
I´d try the route via the dealer you bought it from and let them take the trouble with Leica.t.....
Exactly this.....no loaners, just a replacement.
Besides, the OP paid full price for something he wanted and so deserves to get it in the "new" condition in which he expected it to arrive and wants a reasonable explanation as to why some of the paint is already wearing off after a couple of weeks of ownership. Nothing wrong with that, especially for a camera that costs as much as it does.
Nothing stays new forever. It's wear and tear. And he's worn it out more than most in a short period of time.
He needs to ask himself how often he's handled the camera since purchased. And when holding the camera does his finger rest on top of the logo. When he carries it, is there any direct contact with clothing on the logo.
Personally, I'd just keep it. The camera will start brassing anyway in 3 months. It's paint.
justins7
11-30-2009, 11:41
250swb,
I have used nail polish on a lot of my vintage cameras to fill in lost paint, without any negative effects. My black Summicron had a lot of the white paint missing in the recesses of the distance scales, so I used my handy 99-cent nail polish and then wiped away the excess. These paints are basically varnish-based enamel and are bright and rock-hard when dry. The other paints dry slower and may react to the black base, though I am not sure. In any event I never worried that much since these were all "users".
Roger Hicks
11-30-2009, 11:47
Those who say 'ignore it' are made of sterner stuff than I, or have never had new gear and seen it age prematurely.
I still freak out at the scratch marks on the black paint of my M8.2, caused by a finder coming off and chewing up the paint as it was jostled in my camera bag.
Cheers,
R.
scottwallick
11-30-2009, 11:59
Those who say 'ignore it' are made of sterner stuff than I, or have never had new gear and see it age prematurely.
I think you've hit it on the nose, Roger. This is my first bought new rangefinder.
NIKON KIU
11-30-2009, 12:19
I voted 'other'
Put it on ebay and sell it for $9000..that's what they are selling for.
Buy a Nikon :)
Kiu
Those who say 'ignore it' are made of sterner stuff than I, or have never had new gear and see it age prematurely.
I still freak out at the scratch marks on the black paint of my M8.2, caused by a finder coming off and chewing up the paint as it was jostled in my camera bag.
Cheers,
R.
Good point Roger. All my gear is all used gear. Although about half of my Leica lenses (two of four) are like new, I guess I'm use to seeing gear that is well used. I never owned a new car either.
I still like the missing paint on the engraving though and one day the rest of the M9 will be less perfect, but $7k is a lot of money.
Calzone
Other: remove the rest of the white paint.
I can't believe there is even an option for ... 'just live with it!'
Damn! ... if I had the money to buy a Jag or BMW or similar and it started to lose paint anywhere, even under the hood, I wouldn't just bite my tongue and do nothing because ... "after all, it is nice to drive!"
Self stealthing M9's ... what will Leica think of next to sell cameras? :D
Geezus. Leave it alone and use the damn thing or give it to me!
Silva Lining
11-30-2009, 13:18
I voted "live with it" because everything else is spot-on with the camera. I tape over my logos. Not because Hank Bresson did, but mainly to avoid the "weenie factor" of friendly strangers pointing at my camera and hollering, "Is that a Pentax? My brother-in-law shoots Nikon!". I also am averse to advertising for others unless I am PAID to do so. So I tape over the logos of Canon, Holga, Voigtlander, Zeiss Ikon, GE (kitchen appliances) and so on. I also don't wear clothing with logos or sayings. I let a black waterproof marker seep into the bright white threads of the annoying "THE NORTH FACE" logo on my jacket and biking gloves. (Are you getting the picture?)
Heh, you are the antithesis to this guy...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmoontattoo/2514998242/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmoontattoo/2514998242
Roger, I have had new gear and have seen all kinds of things happen. Live with it. Get a white paint stick and re-whiten the M9. If it was big flakes of black paint coming off that would be another story. The camera is working spot on, keep it.
Silva Lining
11-30-2009, 13:26
After a day shy of two weeks with the M9, I'm really pleased with this camera. Although, I must admit I'm slightly stumped by the learning curve associated with digital post-processing. That is another thread.
And perhaps I will have some time to just play with my photos on my computer, as I'm considering sending my M9 back to Leica. See attached image.
The paint has started to flake off the 'M9'. While my M9 has performed fine, exposures are as I take them, rangefinder is spot on, buttons respond, etc., I'm a bit disappointed that after just two weeks I have paint wear.
This is, after all, my 'first Leica', and I'd at least like to have it look new while it is new. It's one of those things that will just bug me if I let is slide. Or maybe I should. Haven't made up my mind.
Thoughts?
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek::eek:
I would not be a happy chappy if I'd just dropped multo-dollarage for a flaky paint job - sure I love my beat-up M6, but I bought it 'well used' and only paid a fraction of the price of new one - and even the white paint on the M6 is intact....
I'd send it back to be repaired
scottwallick
11-30-2009, 14:29
To the original poster, though: genuinely sorry your brand new M9 is flaking paint. That's a drag and the first scratch is the hardest.
Thanks. The funny thing is, there isn't a scratch on it yet, including the LCD. It's still brand new—except for the flaking paint. And the spots that get touched and used, the shutter dial and the LCD buttons, aren't flaking—yet, at least.
When I get good optics or a well-aligned rangefinder, I don't like mailing it around more than really needed, so I'd consider taping it over and shooting like mad.
And that, sir, is my dilemma. :P
emraphoto
11-30-2009, 14:41
geez Scott, tough one. truthfully i would be loathe to send anything away to Leica as my experience with that hasn't been very good. taking it up with the dealer seems prudent. perhaps they will replace it or give you a loaner.
sending it off to Leica? if the camera is functioning and the rangefinder is on i would take the advice of others and tape it over and have at it vs having it vanish into the Leica repair vortex for 2 months (or more).
Tom Diaz
11-30-2009, 14:50
After a day shy of two weeks with the M9, I'm really pleased with this camera. Although, I must admit I'm slightly stumped by the learning curve associated with digital post-processing. That is another thread.
And perhaps I will have some time to just play with my photos on my computer, as I'm considering sending my M9 back to Leica. See attached image.
The paint has started to flake off the 'M9'. While my M9 has performed fine, exposures are as I take them, rangefinder is spot on, buttons respond, etc., I'm a bit disappointed that after just two weeks I have paint wear.
This is, after all, my 'first Leica', and I'd at least like to have it look new while it is new. It's one of those things that will just bug me if I let is slide. Or maybe I should. Haven't made up my mind.
Thoughts?
I had the same problem a few years ago with my brand-new M6TTL. The only difference was that the paint was black and the finish was (is) titanium plating.
I called Leica USA service, and they advised me to just get some black Testers paint at the hobby shop and "poke it in there with a toothpick or something." The person telling me this said, "that's basically what we'll do if you send it to us." I fixed that one myself and the fix is still there.
Then, more recently, when I got an M8, I had the same problem with the M (on a silver-type finish). I didn't bother fixing this.
I figured it was only a matter of time till it happens to my M9, which like yours is black with white lettering.
Leica should do something different to apply the lettering--something more permanent. Till they do, though, I suggest saving the time you will spend waiting for the camera to go there and back. Fix it yourself or else live with it.
Good luck trying to talk a dealer into a swap. Might work depending on the dealer, but with the cameras in such short supply that is not going to be a no-brainer. It would be Leica, not the dealer, who would properly be replacing the camera for a serious defect.
Tom
Actually your misfortune just made me realize: upgrading from m8 to m9 is a toothpick away!
Gabriel M.A.
11-30-2009, 15:22
I vote to throw an even bigger tantrum and make a sign, fly over to Solms, and protest until somebody finally pays attention.
scottwallick
11-30-2009, 16:24
Just buy a paint stick, that way you will be able to fix it forever, as well as fix whatever else you could use the paint stick for. You could also start a side business charging other people to fix the crappy engraving filling on the M9 since you have the paint stick. $50 bucks a pop will get you another M9 in no time! :)
Best. Suggestion. Yet.
Thanks, Patrick. :) That is, actually, a really great suggestion.
I knew it! I will not buy an M9 until they offer real chrome like a Leica is supposed to be. The shame of it! This item is not cheap! I own a used E class Mercedes and the paint is like new even though the car has been outside alot! There is NO excuse for this AT ALL! Leica should go back to the basics and really think about what made the M3 so good! It was a revolutionary design, durable , and beautiful to look at! I know photo
taking is more important than the camera, but come on people, we are talking about $7 big ones here, not hundreds.
I wouldn't bother, unless you want to sell it soon. It doesn't matter after a few months' use. So why should it matter now?
Gabriel M.A.
11-30-2009, 19:10
There is a fly on my soup!
Pistols at dawn, Monsieur Chef!
SolaresLarrave
11-30-2009, 19:11
What it really comes down to- is it worth your time and effort to do anything about it? I would say no. Just buy a paint stick, that way you will be able to fix it forever, as well as fix whatever else you could use the paint stick for. You could also start a side business charging other people to fix the crappy engraving filling on the M9 since you have the paint stick. $50 bucks a pop will get you another M9 in no time! :)
I got the stick, and used it to revitalize the engravings in my M4-2 (yes, I did "unstealth" a Leica body!! :eek: ). How about I rent it to Patrick for this business venture? Of course, I'd like a percentage of the profits. ;)
coelacanth
11-30-2009, 19:14
I, too, vote for live with it. In fact, I'll take the paint off completely.
Take a look at MicroTools website. They sell an enamel white paint stick that you rub over the engraving and wipe the excess off with a cloth.I have tried it and it works well.
arseniii
11-30-2009, 20:59
To put myself at your place, I would never ever ever send the camera back. I would not bother at all if the camera works. IT WORKS - BE HAPPY!!! It's just a small peace of paint, so what? You can paint it back yourself for the price of a nail polish and an art brush. But still, I wouldn't bother... The smartest thing in your situation would be to keep using it until warranty period is about to expire, your M9 might develop other problems(I sincirely hope it won't) then you will fix things altogether. It's such a minor thing, you cannot imagine in how much trouble you can get with shipping(unexpected delays, losses, taxes e.t.c.)...
Ronald M
11-30-2009, 21:11
Should not happen, but stuff happens when it is shipped around.
Put some liquid mask ( art supply store) or car wax around the letters being careful not to get any inside the groves. Repaint.
There are 10,000 different whites so you will have to do the job complete.
000 size brush.
There is probably oil under the paint that prevents sticking, so remove all the white with a WOODEN tooth pick and clean with a touch of alcohol.
I would probably paint freehand, but I do not know your skills.
[quote=arseniii;1201492]The smartest thing in your situation would be to keep using it until warranty period is about to expire, your M9 might develop other problems(I sincirely hope it won't) then you will fix things altogether. quote]
A fine piece of common sense. Have any work done towards the end of the warranty period, but importantly don't fiddle with it or you will void the warranty for that part.Steve
[quote=arseniii;1201492]The smartest thing in your situation would be to keep using it until warranty period is about to expire, your M9 might develop other problems(I sincirely hope it won't) then you will fix things altogether. quote]
A fine piece of common sense. Have any work done towards the end of the warranty period, but importantly don't fiddle with it or you will void the warranty for that part.Steve
I agree. I think that this is a good advice.
Also....
I would, if I were you, also investigate 'how could this happen?. I have not experienced that the white letter paint come off that easy. How could that be? Acid, petrol or other chemicals on your fingers that might have started this process?
jonmanjiro
12-01-2009, 04:51
Huh? A $7000 camera that has paint peeling off it within two weeks? WTF???
The only thing I can conclude is that it must be a FAKE!!! :D
Ok ok, seriously ;) as suggested above I think I'd hang onto it until toward the end of the warranty period, and then send it in.
digitalintrigue
12-01-2009, 05:55
I have sent Ms to Leica with altered paint infill. It doesn't affect warranty coverage. :)
If you want to replace it there is on on the bay for 7500 currently.
Considering yours has a bit of paint missing I'll so you a favour and take it off your hands for 4 ;-)
personally i hate the m7 engraving on the front of mine, and i covered it up. not for for any other reason other than i think the camera look better without it. my mp looks cleaner.
Another small aspect to consider, if you replace the camera with a new one, are all the duplicate filenames you will have to contend with. Maybe it's possible to set the new camera to start numbering where you left off?
NickTrop
12-03-2009, 13:25
Paint flaking off after two weeks? Are you sure this is a Leica and not a "Leica" like the "Rolodex" I once wore? Did you buy it from somebody selling "Leicas" out of their trunk?
I voted "live with it" because everything else is spot-on with the camera. I tape over my logos. Not because Hank Bresson did, but mainly to avoid the "weenie factor" of friendly strangers pointing at my camera and hollering, "Is that a Pentax? My brother-in-law shoots Nikon!". I also am averse to advertising for others unless I am PAID to do so. So I tape over the logos of Canon, Holga, Voigtlander, Zeiss Ikon, GE (kitchen appliances) and so on. I also don't wear clothing with logos or sayings. I let a black waterproof marker seep into the bright white threads of the annoying "THE NORTH FACE" logo on my jacket and biking gloves. (Are you getting the picture?)
I am absolutely in line with you on that one. When I pull a camera out of my bag to try a lens at one of the second hand dealers, the sales guys are always all over at and laugh at me, how I tape these things ;-)
Thanks a lot for the black pen tip with stupid logos on clothes. Just prepared a heavily used messenger bag to see how the black pen holds up. Other items are on hold too…
mabelsound
12-05-2009, 15:06
Those who say 'ignore it' are made of sterner stuff than I, or have never had new gear and seen it age prematurely.
I still freak out at the scratch marks on the black paint of my M8.2, caused by a finder coming off and chewing up the paint as it was jostled in my camera bag.
Cheers,
R.
I'm the precise opposite. I don't feel right using a new camera until I scratch or bump it. Then I can relax. Newness freaks me out--it is the most fragile--and ultimately, freakish--thing in the world.
I've only got one camera I bought new actually, the Pana GF1...so far it's in good shape...gotta do something about that. ;-)
Anyway, I'm with the use it until the warranty's almost up camp. Guarantee, if you send it to Leica now, it will be gone for months, then a week after you get it back something else bad will happen.
Another small aspect to consider, if you replace the camera with a new one, are all the duplicate filenames you will have to contend with. Maybe it's possible to set the new camera to start numbering where you left off?
Of course it is possible to do so.
The camera works fine, keep it. Apologies to all, but I can't believe this thread is still going.
Richard Marks
12-06-2009, 05:05
I'm the precise opposite. I don't feel right using a new camera until I scratch or bump it. Then I can relax. Newness freaks me out--it is the most fragile--and ultimately, freakish--thing in the world.
I've only got one camera I bought new actually, the Pana GF1...so far it's in good shape...gotta do something about that. ;-)
Anyway, I'm with the use it until the warranty's almost up camp. Guarantee, if you send it to Leica now, it will be gone for months, then a week after you get it back something else bad will happen.
If only people buying used had this sentement. The bottom line. This is actually about resale value. If one is going to keep a camera forever and do not care how it looks then its not a problem. But if you fund new gear partly from the resale of older gear then this really is a problem as the buyer will say its defective. Leica buyers are generally pretty picky about this sort of thing as the length of this thread shows.
Richard
Tom Diaz
12-06-2009, 06:00
.
.
so there are those that are practical, keep it, fix it your self etc, but i am of the sort that there is a principle, as tiny as it may be it should be right, give me a product that is right or give me discount (this isnt second hand market gear)! we should not sit back and take whatever is dished out because of sheer convenience to ourselves, that only encourages poor service--it didnt used to be that way, why settle for it now!
I recently sold an M8 body for $2375, a good price for both me and the buyer, I thought. The body was flawless except for the slightly flaked-off M on the front. I could have touched it up at that point and called the camera "mint," although I don't think the price would have been terribly different. (I also would have felt that a little unethical, but maybe that's beside the point.) At least in that case I think the market for used M8s, in the face of the M9, set the price. If the new owner is reading, note that you can fix up that M pretty easily if you want to for any reason.
Leica did quickly replace an M8 body for me at one point. They had repaired it but they left a screw loose, so when it came back the top was loose. They were properly embarrassed. At that point they could have just said "we're really sorry, send it back and we'll be sure everything is completely as it should be." Instead, they just called me back and said they were shipping me a new one. So they do give that kind of service. I think this was a far more serious service issue than a flake in the M. When a product doesn't work, or might not work right without a lot of fuss, people and companies are different.
I would like to think this story gets back to Leica and that they fix the paint quality (since evidently I can do a better job with hobby shop paint than what they are doing in the factory). However, I don't think they are going to treat it as if it were a major functional flaw, replacing cameras and so on. I'd have been happy if they had done it for me with the M6TTL I have, but I was not surprised they didn't, and I still bought more cameras from them.
Tom
Richard Marks
12-06-2009, 08:27
A very real issue for me in the Uk is turn around time and in a way this plays to Leicas advantage to deal with potential 'nuisance quibles'. They can be pretty sure that you are not going to send back nearly £5,000 of camera to germany with a 6 to 8 week turnaround time for minor issues as the loss of use is a bigger penalty to the purchaser than the advantage gained by minor repairs or alterations.
I genuinely need some sort of service centre in the UK before I would consider spending that much. Interestingly for around an additional £5,000 on the price of an S2 they are offering a 24 hour replacement service in the UK.
My M8 whent back 3 times and all in December / January when light over here is very poor. Some consolation I suppose.
Richard
Tom Diaz
12-06-2009, 08:58
A very real issue for me in the Uk is turn around time and in a way this plays to Leicas advantage to deal with potential 'nuisance quibles'. They can be pretty sure that you are not going to send back nearly £5,000 of camera to germany with a 6 to 8 week turnaround time for minor issues as the loss of use is a bigger penalty to the purchaser than the advantage gained by minor repairs or alterations.
I genuinely need some sort of service centre in the UK before I would consider spending that much. Interestingly for around an additional £5,000 on the price of an S2 they are offering a 24 hour replacement service in the UK.
My M8 whent back 3 times and all in December / January when light over here is very poor. Some consolation I suppose.
Richard
I agree with you. I would not want my only recourse to be sending the machine to Germany.
However, I have Leica USA fairly nearby in New Jersey, and they still discouraged me from sending in the camera to have them fix the flaky M.
Richard Marks
12-06-2009, 09:49
I agree with you. I would not want my only recourse to be sending the machine to Germany.
However, I have Leica USA fairly nearby in New Jersey, and they still discouraged me from sending in the camera to have them fix the flaky M.
Dear Tom
Im amazed if they were discourageing. I would have thought they wanted this dealt with very quickly and would also be very keen to investigate the cause. Clearly there is quite a bit of increadularity here on this forum that something so expensive and produced in small numbers can have a poor paint job. It can not be helping their reputation. On a positive note there do not seem to be any technical problems emerging with the M9.
I think I would photograph and record the complaint and write to Leica saying that you will be returing the camera at your convenience within the warranty period, and choose a time when you are not plannig to take too many pictures. Another reason to wait a bit is just in case there are any further issues (rangefinder allignment etc.) you can get that done same trip.
Best wishes
Richard
bottley1
12-06-2009, 10:51
I would black out the middle of the "M" - you will be the proud owner of the first "Leica 119"
Richard Marks
12-06-2009, 10:53
but you know how that all works dont you Richard, old fashioned snake oil, loyds insurance for tea clippers.
doubtful Leica have much to do with it (apart from carrying out repairs), it is a typical insurance/warrantee company providing the service, hence the large price tag!
I am sure you are right.
However I think for film M's I was not worried about sending things to Germany as it was so unlikely to fail and also borrowing another film M for a while would not be too difficult. The issue with M9 is as with any digital device, more potemtial for mal functioning (sensor and playback screen alone introduce a large potential for failures) and this I accept, but equally with a higher probability of needing service, it has to at least be in the same country as the prosepcts of a loaner are very remote. My M8 whent back 3 times. Over 3 years I effectively lost just under 6 months of use. Depreciation in 3 years £1200, running costs therefore £400 per year, one could argue £200 of loss of use. The figures might well be greater for a camera costing nearly twice as much.
Richard
DougFord
12-06-2009, 12:03
If the contraption is working to specification but has a minor cosmetic flaw that you can’t/won’t live with, then I would arrange, through the dealer, to have the top plate replaced.
Coordinate with leica nj to be certain that they have spare top plates available and in stock, then schedule the service. Easy as pie, right? On second thought…..
Tom Diaz
12-06-2009, 13:06
classic...
they had contartiopns in ,its a Mad Mad Mad world, The Great Race (w/tony curtis) and Thos e Daring Young Men in Their Flying Machines
Considering the subject of this thread, I think a man who calls himself "chippy" should have the last word.
Richard Marks
12-06-2009, 14:35
without wanting to stir the bats from the roof of the cave! i feel you are on track, and unfortunately blessed with the same unfortunate disposition of assessing 'Leica's economics in relation to ones self (like me), so much easier when you dont give a crap about the money eh! or the service! or repair, or wanantee...now its all electric/digi it IS going to cause more problems compared to the mech cams, the parts come from the same places as other companies use, they are all constructed to a point of..hmm failure, not to last! ;) oh so negative, but 'such is life' [Ned Kelly]
I am not knocking technology. Digital can do some brilliant things (although actually shot tri x all day today not quite dry yet!!). Some of my best pics of 2009 are digital. I simply feel that it does need more support than mechanical products and until Leica get a repair facility in the UK I am not going to consider an M9. I can afford it but i do not want to. Leica make the best glass in the world but it should not give them the liberty to offer such poor support. The best glass in the world is useless in the UK if the body is in Solms!
Best wishes
Richard
One instance of white paint coming off is not going to make me make a judgement on the M9 quality. Generally, the paint work of Leica cameras have always been very good. I have urged Scott to investigate if it is anything in the way he has handled the camera that can have made the white paint come off. My 4 years old M8 has not white paint wear. Nor my 10 years old MP. - While the black paint on my Canon 1Ds III shows large scars of wear after only less than 2 years of use....
It seems to me that the M9 quality, in general, is good, and obviously far better than the M8 when that was launched. But still I am a bit weary of the corner quality of particularly super wide lenses, like the WATE. Have anyone seen M9 tested with wide angle lenses by Sean Reid or others?
Mark,
I think it is far better to send any faulty camera to one sentral service shop, preferably the factory in Solms, than having several service centers around Europe. Don't forget; Britain is no longer the center of an empire. Britain is now in the outskirts of the Central Europe,- like some 'drenched Moldova' :D:D under a rain cloud, half way out in the Atlantic. Who want to send their camera to a place that just might be washed away by the next reinstorm? For all we know; Britain just might be the next Atlantis...:eek:
Richard Marks
12-08-2009, 13:12
Mark,
I think it is far better to send any faulty camera to one sentral service shop, preferably the factory in Solms, than having several service centers around Europe. Don't forget; Britain is no longer the center of an empire. Britain is now in the outskirts of the Central Europe,- like some 'drenched Moldova' :D:D under a rain cloud, half way out in the Atlantic. Who want to send their camera to a place that just might be washed away by the next reinstorm? For all we know; Britain just might be the next Atlantis...:eek:
Dear Olsen (You can call me Richard)
I am not making any claims as to the importance of Brittain in world affairs, far from it. But it is still an island. This has of course been useful in repelling invaders over the centuries but can be a pain for getting cameras repaired by foreigners some of whom have never tased Yorkshire pudding as a first course . :D If there is no service centre in the UK Im not buying given the hassle I had with my M8. Nikon Canon and Hasselblad fortunately do not seem to agree with your centralisation philosophy and offer turn around times in the UK around 10 working days. Nikon and Canon even tested the prototypes for weather sealing in our fine climate. Who knows if the sun came out we could even take some photographs outside.
Finally may I say in the unfortunate event that I do get washed away before posting again, just how much I have enjoyed this web site and especially communicating with those who can read my first name.:D
All the best for 2010
Mark (richards)
robklurfield
12-08-2009, 14:15
For $6995, you should have the privilege of creating the first scratch on this yourself. For $2995, I'd keep it. For this kind of lettuce, however, I want a pristine one. And, have a loaner, if necessary while I wait. There are people on this site who have never spent that much money on a car let alone a camera. For Leica to maintain their current status of a purveyor of not just cameras, but really, also, exclusive luxury goods (maybe some of wish that weren't there position in the market, I for one, the reality is, this what they are), they have to take a white-gloved approach to customer service.
I once returned for exchange a BMW automobile because, after driving it for two weeks while the dealership's detailer was on vacation, the dealer painted the pinstripe in the wrong color. This was a car my wife bought with a small inheritance when her brother passed away about 15 years ago, so the car was a very emotional purchase for her (and, much fancier than what we normally drive). The dealer told me they'd gladly "grind the old pinstripe" off the car. Wrong choice of words. After about two hours of telling the sales manager that the only thing I'd accept would be a new car, he relented and the car back with about 1,000 miles and gave us another one of the floor.
When I buy 50-year old M2 or Rolleicord and find they have flaws, I'm annoyed, but expect that this comes with the territory. When I buy a brand new, very expensive Leica, I expect it to be perfect. If it's not, I expect the dealer and/or the manufacturer to fall all over themselves to make it right. BTW, the M2 is with Youxin and the 'Cord is with Krikor.
scottwallick
12-08-2009, 18:12
In conclusion, I have decided to just keep the M9, enjoy using it, and perhaps when the time comes to send it to Leica, I can have the engravings restored to the condition they should have been in the first place.
I appreciate everyone's good advice. Cheers. :)
scottwallick
05-10-2010, 07:45
Five months later, here's the update.
In February, I decided to send in my M9 because I had two lenses that needed adjusting (one wasn't focusing to infinity) too, so I sent them in all together.
It took two months, but when I received my M9 back from Solms via Popflash, the engravings and paint were fixed and back to the new condition it should have been from the beginning.
So, +1 Leica.
I agree that is scandalously long. Fortunately my experience with sending the M9 directly to Solms is different: one week turnaround. :)
Perhaps it was the Islandic ash cloud? Sun Spots? Two months less of warranty they have to worry about? They did extend the original warranty two months, right?
Not a lot of choices at this point, but disconcerting none the less.
Would have thought a good dealer would have gotten you a Demo to use in the meantime, hardly unreasonable.
Iff only RFF folks ran the world. ;-)
Regards, John
scottwallick
05-10-2010, 08:57
Well, I probably lost some days in both directions by sending it in through my dealer instead of direct to Solms. Maybe by sending in two lenses in the same lot added some time. And there was a delay as it was due to mailed out about the time Eyjafjallajokull caused the disruptions to transatlantic flights.
Mailed February 23, received April 28.
I think we lost some time because after Solms received the M9, they sent an invoice to Tony at Popflash for the repairs. Tony and Alex were great and got that sorted as the defect it was, under warranty.
Who knows why it took so long frankly, and I also think they were too slow. Right now I'm just happy to have it again.
scottwallick
05-10-2010, 08:59
Would have thought a good dealer would have gotten you a Demo to use in the meantime, hardly unreasonable.
I was offered a loaner, actually. I should have mentioned that. But because my two most used M lenses were off for repairs with the M9, I passed.
I used it as an excuse to pick up a GF1 to enjoy, which I did.
i have the gaffer tape over my "leica" and "m8," but that's a preference thing. i suspect i wouldn't be happy with such a problem either. but the camera seems to be functioning so well ... urgh. sorry to hear about your situation.
Phil_F_NM
05-11-2010, 21:52
The paint on my M8 started to come off after only a week. It looked like someone had used an enamel stick to fill in the engraving, but had not cured it. After a little sweat from my fingers got on the thing, ti looked like a crayon had smeared a bit. Eventually, I just took it all off with rubbing alcohol and filled it in with a nice shiny black enamel. Looks really nice too. I also painted the red dot, not for stealth, but because I think the red dot is ugly. It's tacky. Yeah, I said it. I wish I could get a Leica script top plate engraved on an M8/M9, but we can all dream. Until then, I tell everyone that it's a black Yashica 35GSN.
BillBlackwell
05-12-2010, 11:17
I can't believe this thread is still active!
Anyway, if you want to fit it, simply take a blow-dryer and heat up the letters in question - then take the tip of a white crayon to the letters and wipe away the excess with your thumb. The heat will permanently melt the crayon into the area - problem solved.
But personally, in this case, I would go out of my way to finish the job by chipping the rest out.
Colin Corneau
05-12-2010, 11:25
Heating metal, on a $10,000 delicate digital camera...what's the worst that could happen?
Andy Kibber
05-12-2010, 11:30
Heating metal, on a $10,000 delicate digital camera...what's the worst that could happen?
Seems like a good idea to me! I would forgo the hair dryer and just put the thing in the oven.
Like you say, what's the worst that could happen? :)
http://journal.davidhempenstall.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/journal-20090523-larry-burrows-destroyed-leica.jpg
BillBlackwell
05-12-2010, 12:31
Guys: I said a blow-dryer, not a blow-torch...
In any case - trust me on this - it works.
The paint on my M8 started to come off after only a week. It looked like someone had used an enamel stick to fill in the engraving, but had not cured it. After a little sweat from my fingers got on the thing, ti looked like a crayon had smeared a bit. Eventually, I just took it all off with rubbing alcohol and filled it in with a nice shiny black enamel. Looks really nice too. I also painted the red dot, not for stealth, but because I think the red dot is ugly. It's tacky. Yeah, I said it. I wish I could get a Leica script top plate engraved on an M8/M9, but we can all dream. Until then, I tell everyone that it's a black Yashica 35GSN.
Back in the day, when I needed a new top for my CL, -- Leica evidently kept blank ones, and engraved them to match what was needed, Minolta, or Leica, but the bottom line was a freshly engraved top, and about a $300 bill for the effort.
Of course I was out shopping for a new insurance company after that.
I would think it would make sense for them to offer this service.
Regards, John
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