Fast lens on a 4x5 Crown....

[agman]

Is there such a thing? I cannot find anything other than 4.7 and would like something to work with models in low light. No pun intended. Any advice much appreciated.

:mad:

[hans voralberg]

I think any faster and you'll run out of DOF

[agman]

Hans,

I have been using Ilford 100 with adequate success. do you thingk I should go with a 400 type?

[nikon_sam]

400 would be a lot better (well two stops better) Even if your using 120 film in a 4x5 camera 400 is a decent film for enlargements...4x5 film @ 400 speed...you'll never even notice, unless your printing billboards...

[goamules]

There are f3.5 tessars, but f4.5 are more common. I think there are Xenars that are faster too.

[wlewisiii]

Realistically, it's much more sensible to do that kind of work in MF. This is not where LF's strengths lie. Now, if you're really serious about that low level of light (& presumably no flash) in LF, you'll need a few things.

First get some Tri-X & Diafine. That will net you EI640 ~ EI1200, experiment for your prefernces.

As for a lens, I have a 135/3.5 CZJ Tessar. Wide open it's soft as bejeepers & has very little DOF. Movements can cover a multitude of sins, but sooner or later the laws of optics catch up with you.

The only semi-common faster lens that I am aware of is the legendary 7"/2.5 AeroEktar. You'll need either a Speed Graphic for the focal plane shutter or a lottery prize to afford to have someone mount it in shutter. Start here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~lommen9/aero/ and then Google David Burnett or David Burnett Combo

Good luck,

William

[DonaldJ.]

aero glass is F2.5 i believe but they are pricy.


beat me to it

[agman]

Thanks all.

My plan now is try the 400 (8-10 exposures) and examine results. I'll let everyone know the outcome. Thanks all.

[Andrew Howes]

I have seen the aero ektar go fairly cheap, heck can you imagine how much a new lens like that would cost if they made it now? I saw a 305 2.5 aero on ebag once, would cover 10x8
that would be cool, but not much would be in focus wide open up close. Might be nice mounted on a pentax 67.
would a brighter ground glass help? (thats if focus is your problem not shutter speed.)
I need a dark cloth always for my speed graphic with the f4.7 lens.

[sevo]

aero glass is F2.5 i believe but they are pricy.


Aero Ektars are extremely cheap (about $50-200 depending on their condition). But they are 2.5 only in aperture diameter - their glass is rather on the absorbing side even at the best of times, in my experience even a recently bleached one was no faster than a coated f/3.5 Heliar. With fully developed Thorium yellowing their effective speed can even be f/5.6 or worse. Which may not matter if you need that f/2.5 for DOF only - but fast they aren't.

The 150mm f/2.8 Xenotar seems to be the fastest reasonably sharp LF lens - and it comes shutter mounted, which you'd need for the Crown. The Aero Ektar can only be used on Speeds and other cameras with a FP shutter, as it is in a huge barrel.

[Roger Hicks]

The 150/2.8 Xenotar is indeed the fastest shuttered, reasonably portable lens, but it is huge and heavy and d-o-f is negligible. I've only ever seen one.

The Aero Ektar is 'hot' enough that I got an autoradiograph on Polaroid Type 3000 is less tha 24 hours, so you wouldn't want to keep it under your bed. Mine lives in a corner of an outbuilding.

Cheers,

R.

[goamules]

Don't forget petzvals. They were used as portrait lenses for 60+ years, and typically are at F4. A Wollensak Vitax is a great portrait lens at F3.8.
Petzval Article (http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk/mod/resource/view.php?id=120).


And I don't agree with the above statement that this "...is not where LF strengths lie..." Since practically all portrait studios shot LF from 1860 to about 1960 I'd say there is some strength there....! Look at some of Hurrell's or other Hollywood age low light portraits.

[wlewisiii]

LF has many strengths but people stopped using it for most portraits along time ago for good reason. That's not to say that fast film & a petzval wouldn't be fun or couldn't do it, but just realize that a Hassy & a 150, or even a Leica & a 90, will do it much faster & easier.

I've burned my share of sheet film. If I want that kind of available light portrait, I'll use my Leica not my Crown.

William

[goamules]

... people stopped using it for most portraits along time ago for good reason...

William

What people? Some people.

November 2009 Portraits (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=55371)

...a Hassy & a 150, or even a Leica & a 90, will do it much faster & easier...

Perhaps....depends on what your motivations are....

[venchka]

Kodak's New Tmax 400, 400TMY-2, is imminently pushable. Your Ektar 127mm/4.7 lens may be fast enough with a little help from Tmax400.

All of this does suggest a few interesting consequences – such as in a hybrid workflow, how should I rate my film. The above shows that if I place my deepest shadow detail on Zone 3 then there are actually 6 further stops below that recordable on the film! So perhaps for general use I could rate my Tmax400 at say ISO 800 or 1600 or even 3200 and still have plenty of shadow detail to play with. The additional speed could come in handy sometimes.


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=55797

[agman]

Thanks all.

[Trius]

Wayne: Thanks so much for the LF link on TMY-2 ... wow (Steve's work) ... are you using TMY-2 in LF exclusively? I had been thinking of trying it out after I finish off some TX, but maybe I should shoot both and compare.

... not meaning to hijack the thread ... you may want to just shoot me an email to continue.

[venchka]

Here you go............

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/01032008/150Xeno_1.jpg

Have you ever seen one in a Copal 3 before. The best of the best, and this shutter is like new crisp.

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/01032008/150Xeno_2.jpg

You're buying 2 extremely desireable lenses that share a common shutter. The 240 / 420 Symmar is the last of the convertibles, about 1971-ish (I didn't check the no.s, you can) all black and other than the ding on the filter ring, it's perfect (glass!)

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/01032008/150Xeno_5.jpg

The Xenotar fits the shutter perfectly with all clearances correct. The aperture scale for the Xeno is the lower one that is scratched in.

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/01032008/150Xeno_4.jpg

The depth of field and look of the Xenotar are legendary! A steady stream of these has gone to Japan and now China, but I thought I'd try right here first. $1035 + shipping. Both lenses plus the barrel to put the one not in use in for protection.

Addenda: Xenotar glass is surface perfect or close to it, but I see dirt inside. Nothing to hinder, and in my opinion not worth taking the elements apart to clean, but should be mentioned. No effect really. Satisfaction guarantee, return if it bugs you.

For about half that much money you could buy a Pentax 6x7 and 150mm/2.8 lens and another lens.

Earl,

I have an open box of TMY-2. And way too many boxes of other brands & types of film. Prudence says that I devote a portion of my TMY-2 to proper testing. I will resist any future "film deals" and put my efforts into Tmax 400.

Cheers!

[Frank Petronio]

I've had most all of that above junk and now I'm happy with the 135/4.7 Xenar in a Synchro-Compur-P (with rounded aperture) and either TXP or Portra 400NC with my 4x5 Crown. Works well wide open handheld at 1/60th with good technique, tripod for slower. It's also quite inexpensive. Of course you can get a really old 135/3.5 Xenar but most are beaters, hazy,and soft. The 135/3.5 Xenotar (or Zeiss Planar) is a nice lens but not worth the money imho ($600 Xeno, $1000 Zeiss). The 210 Xenar/4.5 is a nice portrait lens too, but probably not on a Crown.

If it's too dark, then shoot a smaller format or digital. For my money I'd go gritty w grainy 35mm film or high ISO digital. Medium format is a boring compromise ;-)

[venchka]

How about uber gritty medium format? A la Sam Haskins? I was thinking Delta 3200 in hot Rodinal. Have you ever tried that? I need to stretch my SMC Takumar 150mm/2.8 Sonnar Wannabe.

[chachi]

i shot 4x5 HP5 at 6400 the other day in a graphic and the only problem was that i tried to do it handheld. the massive chart only goes to 3200 IIRC so i just added what seemed reasonable. it pushed the dev time to 26 mins in xtol 1:1. but the grain is no problem.

[ChrisN]

How about uber gritty medium format? A la Sam Haskins? I was thinking Delta 3200 in hot Rodinal. Have you ever tried that? I need to stretch my SMC Takumar 150mm/2.8 Sonnar Wannabe.

Love it! Do it! :D