Cheap Cameras

[Bill Pierce]

Does anybody have suggestions for relatively inexpensive “pocket” cameras. The Lumix GF1 with the f/1.7 20mm and the small electronic viewfinder accessory called the LVF1, I’m told is superb, but costs over $1000.

As of late I’ve been using the Canon S90, a very small camera, a “vest pocket” camera that costs about $430 and am very pleased. No accessory viewfinder, but a 28 to 105 equivalent zoom that comes in at f/2 on the wide end of the zoom.

It has the same sensor as the new Canon G11. At slower ISO’s it’s 10 meg sensor provides very similar to the results to those provided by the 15 meg sensor of the G10 (17x22 prints, no problem). It’s a little better than the G10 at higher ISO’s. How high you can go is a matter or taste. I just convert to b&w and pretend the noise is grain; so, I have no problems with ISO’s on the order of 800.

Image stabilizer, face detection, the ability to shoot RAW images and 2 click stopped control rings which make it quick and easy to change values like ISO and preset focal lengths (28, 35, 50, 85, 105) plus the fast lens make it a pretty good street camera for the buck.

Any other suggestions for these times of economic downturn?

[Jim Edmond]

You've mentioned the two that I've got my eye on. How's the autofocus speed with the S90? The GF1 is supposed to be pretty quick.

[sojournerphoto]

LAtest incarnation of the Ricoh GXx00 or for a fixed '28' the GRD3

Mike

[David Graves]

A used GR D2 is probably relatively inexpensive and shoots RAW, and seems quite happy with a 16GB SD card. Can also use AAA batteries in a pinch. The lens is pretty fast and the camera does shoot video as well, as they all seem to since 2006 or 2007.

[wlewisiii]

I want one of the two Canons you mention. But I'll be using our A590IS for the forseeable future... :(

William

[amateriat]

If we're talking digital here, I've found nothing that suits me comfortably. Looking at the Nikon P6000 at the moment: yes, it definitely has its flaws, but I like the form-factor, handling, and the optical VF (which, yes, is offset). And $400+ kind of hits the ceiling of my "cheap" metric.

In the film world, I'm positively swooning over the Contax Tvs I picked up earlier this year from FrankS. That little number comes with me almost every day. True, this camera was anything but cheap when it first came out, but it came to me cheap enough!


- Barrett

[lightshot]

The only pocket camera I can recommend from experience is the Lumix Tz5.

Advantages:
Price
Portability
Ability to shoot in low light
Virtually indestructible ( has been dropped, drop kicked, and dropped into water and still works perfectly)
28mm Lens

Disadvantages:
Only JPEG
No viewfinder
Truly a pns

It's a handy carry around or leave in the glove box camera and I've found it to be quite reliable.

[FrankS]

Hey Barrett! I'm happy you're still lov'in the Tvs. I've still got a copy and it's my no fuss family snaps camera with colour neg film.

[Bill Pierce]

In the film world, I'm positively swooning over the Contax Tvs I picked up earlier this year from FrankS. That little number comes with me almost every day. True, this camera was anything but cheap when it first came out, but it came to me cheap enough!
- Barrett

I had two. Even after almost everything on my shelves switched to digital, I'll still kept one and gave the other to my son.

[Bill Pierce]

You've mentioned the two that I've got my eye on. How's the autofocus speed with the S90? The GF1 is supposed to be pretty quick.

Focus speed is good and shutter lag is minimal. But, as always, holding the button halfway down and letting the camera go through all its preliminary machinations before the final shutter releasing push is the way to get the most responsive release out of any automatic.

[Pickett Wilson]

I can't decide between the G11 and S90. I'm going to get one or the other. The S90 is pocketble, but the G11 more versatile. Ah, decisions. :)

[amateriat]

I can't decide between the G11 and S90. I'm going to get one or the other. The S90 is pocketble, but the G11 more versatile. Ah, decisions. :)
After toying around with a colleague's G9, my gut says you should go with the G11. Bigger, yes, but more versatile (reminds me a lot of the P6000, in fact). If I remember correctly, they even brought back the articulating screen...not a small deal, there.


- Barrett

[ZeissFan]

I bought an Olympus XA for $3 at a church seal. I installed new seals and of course dropped in new batteries. For less than $10, I have a very good pocket camera.

Digital certainly has reset what we consider to be "cheap" or "affordable." To me, cheap is less than $30.

[amateriat]

Fred: Funny, but my Casio EX-850 almost fits that description: tiny, and practically disappears in a pants pocket. (It even has an optical VF!) And, shutter-lag is relatively short for a digicam of its kind. But I only trust it for utilitarian work (eBay/Craigslist stuff, etc.), and the occasional super-casual snap. It's good, if not somewhat overqualified for that duty, but comes up short for anything more serious. For the El Serioso stuff, I grab the Contax Tvs

iPhone? I have a Motorola e815, which at the moment has even more (http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/shoptalk-4/) street-cred for a camera-phone, yet doesn't interest me in the least. Digital Swiss-Army-Knives don't do much for my temperament, even though I think the iPhone itself is pretty cool. If I've gotta do digital, and tiny, it's the Casio, easy. But the moment I get hold of that Nikon P6000, it's outta here.


- Barrett

[photogdave]

Any waterproof Pentax is the best cheap digital. Mine is the 43WR with a 2.8 zoom and an optical finder!
My favorite cheap camera is the Olympus Stylus Epic. Bought at B&H 11 years ago. A few times a year I put a $3.99 roll of Fuji Superia 400 in it and get better results than any digi p&S I've used - full frame baby!

[GoodPhotos]

I just got my S90 yesterday. I've been lusting after one since first playing with one in the shop a month ago. I've already ordered a grip (http://kleptography.com/rf/#camera_s90)for it to give it a bit more positive hold and have added a 'red dot' just to tweak people's noses. :)

I chose the S90 over the G11 because I wanted a pocket-able camera. The G11 is almost as large as my D60 and if I'm going to carry something that big anyhow, I'll just opt for the D90 or D700. (Which I'd rather leave at home for daily shooting unless I'm actually being paid.)

The 28-105/2.0-4.9 (equiv.) is really close to the same (equiv.) angles that the Sigma 17-70 HSM offers me on my DSLRs when I've been carrying them for general use, but the S90 is a stop faster at the wide end and image stabilised too. I didn't need the longer slower G11 lens.

For off camera use, an SB800 (or even an old SB30) can be used in SU4 mode and the S90 will trigger the flash.

Again, I don't expect that this will ever replace my work cameras, but for every day 'I don't want to be without a decent camera' use, it looks like it will work out great.

[GoodPhotos]

The Red Dot S90.
:)
http://goodphotos.com/reddots90.jpg

[caperunner]

Where do you get your red dots from???

[John Robertson]

Digital Canon Powershot A460 (has a viewfinder!!)
Film Fed 50 cost about $10 in new condition with super sharp lens!!

[Trius]

Carry an XA and scan.

[shadowfox]

I am usually not a Canon fan, I use digital but more crazy about film.

But this camera caught my attention and hold it. It's the redefinition of the word "sleek"

http://base0.googlehosted.com/base_media?q=FroogleCatalog_CNETI756591.jpg&size=20&dhm=c7439e84&hl=en
Canon PowerShot SD780 IS Digital ELPH

The size is unbelievably small even for digital P&S. Just make sure to get the black one, it's about $149 street price.

Having said that, I didn't go for it, I'd rather tinker with a 1936 Retina I that has been sitting on my desk, now that one is definitely pocketable :D :D

[xxloverxx]

I don't know about the price of an Olympus Pen but I was in Yodobashi Camera just days ago. Tried it out with a 40 1.4 Nokton on it (via adapter). Very compact & light, scarily sharp wide open even shot at ISO 6400.

If you don't mind film, one of the Rollei 35's sound good (haven't tried one but it's really small - no rangefinder though, you have to guess the distance which can be a problem. Also, fixed lens (which is a good thing IMO)). Or a Canon QL17 (40 1.7, friend of mine has one)

I find manual focus film cameras much faster than P&S' - personal experience. Take into account shutter lag, time taken for AF, time to turn on and time taken to change batteries (not to mention the trouble of carrying them in the first place)

[newspaperguy]

In the middle of shooting the county's annual Christmas parade, the (company owned) Canon DSLR 'locked up' for no apparent reason. I finished the shoot with my little A590IS that I had in my pocket. Most of the published frames came from the little pns.

Makes me wonder why I tote big gear? Hell, I'm getting paid... do I have to 'look' per-fessional,too?

Yeah, I guess so. I can tell you from 50+ years of doing this, that if you look professional, and have prof gear, entry to controlled situations is easy. Show up at a crime scene with a PNS and the cops will brand you as a 'lookee-loo' and shag your butt.

Note: small camera needs big credentials.

Most of the state and county guys know me, so I can get away with a grin and, "It's my back-up piece."

[NickTrop]

Forget everyone else's recommendation. I am correct in all matters. You want a pocketable affordable digital? The only choice is the Fuji Finepix F10, F11, F30, F31, or F20. This line is no longer produced, or should say IS produced but they changed the successful formula. Only pick up one of these used. The lens retracts so the camera is pocketable. The camera, including its proprietary 6 megapixel sensor, is designed for low-light shooting. It has the best/most accurate, almost magic flash that refuses to blow out close in objects. Image quality is outstanding (check out the Flickr group for samples). I have the F20 because the F30's and 31's have too many bidders. 30 and 31 have manual control and a very long battery capacity. 31 has face detection. F20 is strictly point and shoot, but has same lens, flash system, sensor, and is dirt cheap ($70-ish for mine, used/mint). Ignore all other recommendations. Get the Fuji Finepix F10, 11, 30, 31, or 20.

This camera has ISO 800 that looks like ISO 200 in other cameras. 1600 is fine with "light" noise reduction in post. You will use this camera 50% of the time, but will not tell people on this form or lie when they like a picture and tell people you took it with an expensive film rangefinder. It's okay - it's our little secret.

[Trius]

We had to wait quite a long time for Nick to arrive with his Fuji love-in. :D

Every time he reminds me of those little jewels I check prices on the F30 and discover he is right. Guess I'll keep looking. ;)

[GoodPhotos]

Where do you get your red dots from???

Back when I had an M4-P I lost the dot. I emailed Leica in NJ and they sent me a few. There was a thread (on the LUG?) about the magickal properties of the 'red dot' so just for fun, I've put them on an M5, a IIIc, IIIf and then just to test the theory, I once even put one on a Bessa. Doesn't seem to have imparted any special Leica Glow(tm) image properties, but it did seem to really irk the L-Snobs. I still have a 'Leitz' red dot that fell off an M-Winder, but this last Leica dot fits the S90 better. I was saving this dot to put on an LX3 (which at least has Leica glass), but I decided I like the low ISO capabilities of the S90 better. :)
The only thing I preferred about the LX3 was the hotshoe for a possible aux VF, the slightly wider 24mm/2.0 and the better grip. I've got used to arms length composition again (which I hadn't done since my view camera days), I can live with 28/2.0 and as mentioned previously, I've ordered a grip for the s90.

[NickTrop]

We had to wait quite a long time for Nick to arrive with his Fuji love-in. :D

Every time he reminds me of those little jewels I check prices on the F30 and discover he is right. Guess I'll keep looking. ;)

LOL... Hi, Trius. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year t'ya. Just get the F20. They're available and have fewer bidders. The F30's manual controls are of limited use on point-n-shoot digitals anyway, especially when the already limited aperture is restricted by the zoom and you can't get shallow DOF anyway in-camera because of the sensor size. Just underexpose a stop or two by using +/- exposure controls and "buy back" those stops in Photoshop using brightness control (not "auto adjust levels", manually go in an boost the brightness as needed...) Do this to get the shutter speed up a stop or two in low light to avoid motion blur or camera shake. These cameras don't have image stabilization. Wish they did, it would be a monster.

[GoodPhotos]

I must say that having payed with them in the shop (and sold quite a few) I've been very impressed with the image quality of the new Fuji EXR Super CCD cams as well. They are insanely fast to lock focus and shoot and their low light high ISO seems amazingly close to the S90/G11.

[NickTrop]

I'm loathe to post photos on websites, but here's a few samples of Fuji Finepix in low light. Before you say they're soft, I always soften portraits. The color was taken at a pretty low shutter speed.

[NickTrop]

One more... not bad, imo, for a camera that cost me around $70 bucks.

[NickTrop]

I must say that having payed with them in the shop (and sold quite a few) I've been very impressed with the image quality of the new Fuji EXR Super CCD cams as well. They are insanely fast to lock focus and shoot and their low light high ISO seems amazingly close to the S90/G11.

I really considered this camera based on the F20 but the EXR added more unnecessary megapixels and has a slower lens... 3.5 vs. 2.8, over their earlier Finepix Super CCD models. ...just my opinion.

[jmkelly]

I just got a Super Ikonta - that's supposed to be pocketable, right? ;)

I've tried out a bunch of digital p&s cameras and keep coming back to Panasonics. Picture quality is good enough and the controls just work for me. No matter what film camera I'm carrying on any day, I have an LX3 in my briefcase at all times. For truly pocketable we have a family FX37 - it's not all that much bigger than a box of Tic Tacs, and my 5- and 7-year old prefer using it to mom's iPhone.

[GoodPhotos]

I really considered this camera based on the F20 but the EXR added more unnecessary megapixels and has a slower lens... 3.5 vs. 2.8, over their earlier Finepix Super CCD models. ...just my opinion.

With Canon having success in reversing their MP count to get even better low light use, maybe it will be a trend and Fuji will reintroduce the faster lens with a more manual lower MP sensor using the EXR tech?
We live in a miraculous photo age and as the market learns that MP isn't the be all, end all, the companies are starting to pay attention.
:)

[NickTrop]

I must say that having payed with them in the shop (and sold quite a few) I've been very impressed with the image quality of the new Fuji EXR Super CCD cams as well. They are insanely fast to lock focus and shoot and their low light high ISO seems amazingly close to the S90/G11.

I seriously considered buying on based on my experience with the F20 but decided it wasn't worth the price. 1. Slower lens F3.5 vs F2.8, and added unnecessary megapixels. They should have just added image stabilization and an optical viewfinder, Fuji would have had themselves a true gem. Fuji blew it with the EXR imo.

[NickTrop]

Note, meant to edit original reply to Goodphoto but ended up accidentally deleting my original post, which is how he responded to me before I replied in the thread - in case you were wondering :)