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View Full Version : Color Comparison and the Collapsible Summicron: Wishy Washy and Why

Brian Sweeney
10-20-2009, 15:12
Recently, "A Highly Respected RFF Member" (Okay, it was Tom A) stated that the colors from the collapsible Summicron appeared "Wishy Washy" to him.

My Favorite Summicron. Called a Charlie Brown Lens. Good Grief.

Could it be true?

As I happen to have Several Collapsible Summicrons running from the later 13x range lenses, a Mid-range lens with severe coating damage, to two Thorium lenses, I took a look. Also have a Type 1 Rigid and a Type 2 Rigid for comparison. And Sonnars, Simlars, Serenars, Nikkors, etc....

First up, Preppy Colors Pink and Green.

Late Summicron, near perfect glass, at F2

http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1482

Wishy Washy? Not in my Opinion. Very accurate rendition of the Actual Colors of that day.

Another at F2
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1480

At F4:
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1481


Also at F2:
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1483

The Bokeh Tree Monster is not Wishy Washy.
Brian Sweeney
10-20-2009, 15:14
Next up: The Type 1 Rigid Summicron, the best Summicron ever created in the course of known history.

And this one is near-perfect.

At F2:
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1496

http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1497

A bit higher contrast, and a little sharper.
Brian Sweeney
10-20-2009, 15:18
Next up: a Mid-range Collapsible Summicron that cost $71, used to look like this:

http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1487
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1486
From the Ebay auction that I won, from a VERY honest seller that hid Nothing.

I used a 3M polishing sheet made for Fiber Optic Connectors to take off the damaged coating and then used an Eye-Glass Repair kit on it. As Seen On TV.

http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1485

At F2:
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1488

At F4:
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1489

Soft? yes. Wishy Washy? At F2, good portrait lens. At F4- Not Bad!
FrankS
10-20-2009, 15:19
Aside from the lens testing Brian, I really like your shot #4 !
Brian Sweeney
10-20-2009, 15:24
Haze will make any lens give Wishy Washy Colors. But Haze comes out with a good CLA. Etched Glass will cause Wishy Washy Colors. But that tends to happen to Canon lenses more than Leitz lenses.

So it must be.... The Effects of RADIATION!

104x Thorium Summicron AFTER Bleaching out RADIATION Damage in bright sun.

At F2:
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1492

At F4:
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1493

After hitting with more Ultraviolet Light (Just like on Star Trek when Spock goes Blind from the Parasites attacking the Planet)
At F2:
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1491

At F4:
http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1490

Yes, I admit it! Wishy Washy Colors from the early Thorium lenses.
But being damaged by radiation means never having to use a light yellow filter for Black and White.

Note that the use of Thorium in Summicrons ended at about SN 105xxxx. The later Summicrons are optically better, and do not yellow from radiation. The early ones are collectible, and great with B&W. The front element and some of the inner elements are radioactive, primarily Alpha emmisions. Keep a filter over it, and do not ingest it.
Brian Sweeney
10-20-2009, 15:27
And just a Comparison Shot, Summar at F4.

http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1498

And a Wartime Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar "T" in LTM. At F4.

http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=157&pictureid=1499

Nobody would dream of calling Sonnar Colors Wishy Washy.
sanmich
10-20-2009, 15:28
I see you took it personally, Brian...:)

Who is wasting a 'cron on color film anyway? ;) :D
helenhill
10-20-2009, 15:32
Well I ADORE my 1956 Collapsible
though I have yet to try color with it...
DO I HEAR A DARE ???? :eek:
Brian Sweeney
10-20-2009, 15:36
I see you took it personally, Brian...:)

Who is wasting a 'cron on color film anyway? ;) :D

Actually, all of those old pictures from the 1950's were shot using color film. When I was young, the entire world was Black and White. Just ask Nikki.
Brian Sweeney
10-20-2009, 15:38
Well I ADORE my 1956 Collapsible
though I have yet to try color with it...
DO I HEAR A DARE ???? :eek:

If you like the colors in the first Block, use your lens for color. The 13x Summicron that I use is from 1956.
Bingley
10-20-2009, 15:43
Nice comparison, Brian, and I think you proved your point! I also like #4, but I think the sonnar shot is the best... something about sonnar lenses and color film....
rbrooks
11-13-2009, 09:31
Recently, "A Highly Respected RFF Member" (Okay, it was Tom A) stated that the colors from the collapsible Summicron appeared "Wishy Washy" to him.

My Favorite Summicron. Called a Charlie Brown Lens. Good Grief.

Could it be true?


Nothing "Wishy Washy" there. I've two of these lenses that have been with Malcolm Taylor waiting for an extra clean element to turn up. When they come back I'll post some photos and wait for Tom A. to explain his "Wishy Washy" comment! :rolleyes:

Gotta love a collapsible lens
ampguy
11-13-2009, 11:39
I like the color and bw images from my CLA'd Collapsible Summicron. Here (http://matsumura.smugmug.com/Photography/collapsiblesummicron50/9704998_BMZup/1/655989484_9qizc) are some images.
hans voralberg
11-13-2009, 11:53
Just to chime in a Cron DR, you can't miss that when talking about Cron.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3401/3573944512_be98d646c9_b.jpg