View Full Version : saving for retirement?
I don't mean money, I am thinking about activities you are putting off until you retire and have more time. For me it's curling, and LF photography.
I have a 4x5 speed Graphic camera, its 135mm Xenar lens, a 90mm Angulon, and several other lenses with and without shutters that I'll be able to try out on this camera with its focal plane shutter.
What about YOUR plans?
david.elliott
10-12-2009, 11:20
I suppose I will need a job before I can retire - thank you economy! :P
But at any rate, culinary school is on the books!
bmattock
10-12-2009, 11:23
I don't mean money, I am thinking about activities you are putting off until you retire and have more time.
What about YOUR plans?
Without any 'poor me', I am not planning to retire. There is no money for it, and barring a lottery win, there won't be. So I will plan to work until I cannot. At that point, I doubt I'll be worried about photography either.
Roger Hicks
10-12-2009, 11:27
Dear Frank,
As you know, I'm sort of 'semi-retired', and of course I can shoot pretty much whatever I damn' well please on the business.
I always thought I'd shoot lots more 5x7/13x18/half-plate. And I don't.
In other words, what you think you're going to do when you have more time, and what you actually choose to do, may not match up very well.
There's also the point that as you get older, time goes faster and faster, so most things take longer anyway: there's not as much time as you expect.
Cheers,
R.
35mmdelux
10-12-2009, 11:28
I will work as long as I can or desire to do something else. I'll split my time between South America and California when I retire. Ive trained long and hard -- I'd like to cash in some before I quit.
My gut tells me there is much truth in your words, Roger. But once the children have moved out, I'm sure things will be quieter around here and the environment more conducive to more contemplative pursuits.
Bill, I'm optimistic about the economy. Your investments will rebound.
bmattock
10-12-2009, 11:45
Bill, I'm optimistic about the economy. Your investments will rebound.
My investments add up to considerably less than the price of an M9. I won't be retiring on them no matter what the stock market does. But thanks for trying to be cheerful. I blame no one, I just have not been able to save for retirement and now is far too late. Three pay cuts this year, back-breaking medical expenses, and the joy of dual living expenses have brought me to rack and ruin. Not the end of the world, but the end of any thoughts of retirement.
Thanks to Equitable Life , and having seen my pension forecast [ gloomy ] , and being forcibly semi-retired , I shall continue to be around for the odd day's work as long as I can , but it's like being in limbo .
Certainly using my Kontaxes a lot more .
I'm also collecting enlargers it seems. I hope to offer traditional photo courses including darkroom tech. in the future.
Fred, some folks are lucky in that they want to, and are able to, continue their jobs/careers into their old age. Teaching elementary school is not such a situation for me.
Bill, we probably shouldn't get into the American nation health care debate and the role of the government in caring for its people.
bmattock
10-12-2009, 12:03
Bill, we probably shouldn't get into the American nation health care debate and the role of the government in caring for its people.
I'm not complaining. Life is what it is.
After seeing a friend drop dead suddenly at age 50 and 2 months I'd suggest not spending too much time planning for the future. The future might be there at a later date... or it might not. My plan is to do as much as I can now, even if it isn't all that I'd like to do, rather than "saving" stuff for the future. Naturally, I have things I don't have time to do right now but I try to do whatever I can. For example, I shoot LF as often as I can. That is sometimes only two or three times per year rather than every weekend. I shoot four to six sheets at a time, rather than 10 or 15 sheets. My goal is to do small amounts of quality activities NOW rather than dreaming about larger amounts in the future.
Ron (Netherlands)
10-12-2009, 12:27
I don't mean money, I am thinking about activities you are putting off until you retire and have more time. For me it's curling, and LF photography.
I have a 4x5 speed Graphic camera, its 135mm Xenar lens, a 90mm Angulon, and several other lenses with and without shutters that I'll be able to try out on this camera with its focal plane shutter.
What about YOUR plans?
Try to live now!
Try to live now!
Oh, I am! But to everything there is a season.
buzzardkid
10-12-2009, 12:55
Without any 'poor me', I am not planning to retire. There is no money for it, and barring a lottery win, there won't be. So I will plan to work until I cannot. At that point, I doubt I'll be worried about photography either.
Same here.
I met a man when I was eighteen years old, who had walked the pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela, Spain, from the Netherlands. When my son turns 16 I'll be 46 and I'll take a sabbatical year to walk it myself. I have put it off until two kids have reached (near) maturity, and that'll be long enough. That's the furthest I can plan ahead.
Folks in my family never get that old anyway. If I make it to seventy, I'll be the first in four generations.
BearCatCow
10-12-2009, 13:01
In other words, what you think you're going to do when you have more time, and what you actually choose to do, may not match up very well.
Interesting point. I remember in grade school I would say, "when summer vacation comes, I'm going to ____" and generally not do it. Unless that ___ was swim in the hot weather or lie around doing nothing.
At the moment I thought, I have all summer, I'll do it later.
Maybe that's just the way we are. If you put it off now, you'll put it off later. Or put another way, if it's not fun or important enough to make time for now, you won't make time for it later either.
Another possibility is that it IS fun and important but we're just bad at prioritizing. On a negative note, if we're bad at prioritizing now, we'll probably still be bad at it later! :D
35mmdelux
10-12-2009, 13:06
When my son turns 16 I'll be pushing 68 and I wont be joining you on the pilgrimage. hehe, Enjoy -
I left my work one and a half years ago.
Some achievements: I've returned to university and am studying Chinese. Something I should have learned when I was a child.
Some "still to achieve" items:
- shoot more LF. I shot once in the summer, and was going to today, but forgot to bring the film holder. Brought everything else
- set up and return to darkroom work.
- sell some cameras. Too much gear, not enough photography. The freed-up money would be nice too
....Vick
Roger Hicks
10-12-2009, 13:16
Interesting point. I remember in grade school I would say, "when summer vacation comes, I'm going to ____" and generally not do it. Unless that ___ was swim in the hot weather or lie around doing nothing.
At the moment I thought, I have all summer, I'll do it later.
Maybe that's just the way we are. If you put it off now, you'll put it off later. Or put another way, if it's not fun or important enough to make time for now, you won't make time for it later either.
Another possibility is that it IS fun and important but we're just bad at prioritizing. On a negative note, if we're bad at prioritizing now, we'll probably still be bad at it later! :D
Beautifully summarized!
Cheers,
R.
35mmdelux
10-12-2009, 13:19
Don't say that, you can do it, I can still ride 50 miles on my bike, and hope I can still do it, in less than 4 years from now.
Thank you sir. YES I CAN!
Brian Sweeney
10-12-2009, 13:26
Nina asks me this. 5 years ago I was made "Senior Staff" which is a position where you can do things like watch over the younger managers. You can basically retire on the job. I locked myself to a lab bench and started designing computer hardware and doing embedded programming again.
I would like to teach on a part-time basis, short courses/ technical courses on computer engineering. "old school ways- assembly language/ realtime embedded programming".
And work on old camera lenses.
Don't say that, you can do it, I can still ride 50 miles on my bike, and hope I can still do it, in less than 4 years from now.
Fred, I'll put money down that it won't take you 4 years to ride 50 miles. Just 13 per year and you can do it!
Wow, Brian
Sounds like you are in a nice spot.
My "former company" went bankrupt last year. And the final couple years of work were actually not too much fun.
You sound like you are having fun.
I'm very happy for you.
....Vick
Nina asks me this. 5 years ago I was made "Senior Staff" which is a position where you can do things like watch over the younger managers. You can basically retire on the job. I locked myself to a lab bench and started designing computer hardware and doing embedded programming again.
I would like to teach on a part-time basis, short courses/ technical courses on computer engineering. "old school ways- assembly language/ realtime embedded programming".
And work on old camera lenses.
Plans are nice, especially when they work out. But life can be a bitch. I retired 10 years ago with some money and plans but bad health put my son out of steady work and his family among the uninsured. He died six years ago. His wife works hard and is willing but unable to meet the needs of two , now teen age, kids. My son's family are poor but not inferior in any way.
My retirement plans are now them, keeping them socially active and involved.
I also take pictures now and then.
Don't wait too long to fulfill your plans.
I'm reasonably sure there will be no retirement for me (if not for medical reasons or forced or something like that).
Note to self: On the way home, stop by 7/11 and buy a lottery ticket.
I've got 30 years to go, my life bears no resemblance to ten years ago and so I haven't a clue what I will be doing when I retire apart from photographing something somewhere in some way.
I've got 30 years to go...
Statistically speaking, or do you know for sure? Beware what statistics tell you!
Roger Hicks
10-13-2009, 06:02
I've got 30 years to go, my life bears no resemblance to ten years ago and so I haven't a clue what I will be doing when I retire apart from photographing something somewhere in some way.
If you live so long. I'm not trying to be unpleasant, as I am sure you know; merely pointing out that none of us knows if he or she will be here tomorrow. That appendicitis could have killed me. Because it didn't, I'm that much more enthusiastic about doing things NOW. Dum vivemus, vivamus, or for non-latinists, while we live, let us LIVE!
Even if things turn out well, as you say, you never know where you're going to be in 10, 20, 30, 40 years' time. Could I have guessed at 29 that at 59 I'd be living in my own house in rural France, married to an American? No!
Cheers,
R.
bmattock
10-14-2009, 08:24
Could I have guessed at 29 that at 59 I'd be living in my own house in rural France, married to an American?
But it is somewhat easier for me to guess that at age 48, I will not be where you are at age 59. Except for the 'married to an American' part.
Besides, why would I wish bad luck upon myself? ;)
Roger Hicks
10-14-2009, 08:28
But it is somewhat easier for me to guess that at age 48, I will not be where you are at age 59. Except for the 'married to an American' part.
Besides, why would I wish bad luck upon myself? ;)
Dear Bill,
As I've noted elsewhere, you and I do tend to have very different appreciations of what constitutes 'good' and 'bad'. Often, diametrically opposed.
Cheers,
Roger
FS Vontz
10-14-2009, 09:09
Well I'm busy with the typical young man's things. Ie, stressing about school, and trying to get women.
Al Patterson
10-14-2009, 09:22
I used to have a large list of trips and other things I wanted to save until retirement. Then I figured I might not live that long, so I made a list of things I want to do, and as I do them I add new items to the list. So far, I finished all but one item from the first list I made after my father passed away in 2002.
Although current lack of funds has made me "retire" from doing things though...
(Well, I am working on another list of 5 to 10 things to do when I can afford them).
I'm not complaining. Life is what it is.
Bill: That perspective is the thing I like best about you. ;)
Al Kaplan
10-14-2009, 09:43
When I was younger (I'm about to turn 67) I used to tell people that I became a photographer because it was the easiest way I could find to make money without really working. Along the way I had an editor friend con me in to writing. I hated it then but now I'm very glad that Jim convinced me to write. Forty+ years later we're still good friends. He also got me interested in politics, which has been a big help in my photography. A lot of my photography either involved people in public office from the local city council to presidential candidates, while other clients I met while working with the the political establishment. I also spent some time living with the Miccosukee and Seminole Indians, and I was involved with the rock & roll scene including the Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane.
Now I have nearly half a century's worth of negatives and contact sheets and I've been going through them, posting photos on my blog http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com, and writing about what was going on at the time. I've still got a lot of writing to do, a lot of printing, and I'm still on a couple of city advisory boards.
If you look at the blog a lot of the recent scans were directly off of the old contact sheets, dust, stains, and all.
As for friends dying in their early fifties, it's all too common to have a heart attack at that age. If you can live past 55 you'll probably live well into your seventies or beyond.
My house is paid for but more money would be nice.
Al Patterson
10-14-2009, 09:45
I am always modifying that list. But some things do work out. I always wanted to live in Italy, and New York, and lately I have been looking at homes in Wyoming. The first two worked out, no reason I can't look at the mountains for a couple of years?
Well, I usually don't have much time to plan for the future when I'm working, but most of my list would take me out west. I've never been to Wyoming, but I've developed an attachment to Albuquerque of all places...
So, how was Italy?
Al mentions his list. Guess it's like the "bucket list": things to do before you die. Does anyone care to share (part of) their list? Mine includes going back and living in (and photographing in) Japan for a year or so.
No bucket list, just intentions to relax and live without worrisome expectations. I often say I will retire and the next day walk into a flower shop and offer to be their delivery man. Part time escorting flowers around, and the rest of my time for golf and photography.
thomasw_
10-14-2009, 15:31
Go on walks with my wife and practice photography without time constraints as long as there is film for me to burn and develop and print; I have a few thematic projects in mind. Read what I want; travel a little to places my wife and I have always desired to visit. If I am able, I hope to scare a few trout with flies.
Nikon Bob
10-14-2009, 16:43
Now that I am here I can't remember what I saved for retirement but it dose not matter as there is always something to do, if you want to. Just putting into practice Rover's idea to relax and live without expectations, someone else's that is. Do what ever it is you want now, money permitting. You never know how long the ride will last.
Bob
bmattock
10-14-2009, 16:46
My father passed away at age 61. If it taught me anything, it was to get your ya-ya's out.
TO THE VIRGINS, TO MAKE MUCH OF TIME.
by Robert Herrick
GATHER ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old time is still a-flying :
And this same flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying.
The glorious lamp of heaven, the sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he's to setting.
That age is best which is the first,
When youth and blood are warmer ;
But being spent, the worse, and worst
Times still succeed the former.
Then be not coy, but use your time,
And while ye may go marry :
For having lost but once your prime
You may for ever tarry.
I'm just saying. The trout will wait for you, but...
Al Patterson
10-14-2009, 17:09
Al mentions his list. Guess it's like the "bucket list": things to do before you die. Does anyone care to share (part of) their list? Mine includes going back and living in (and photographing in) Japan for a year or so.
The idea came from "1,000 Places to See Before You Die", which pre-dates "The Bucket List" by a few years. Anyway, since 1,000 things makes for a long list I picked 10 places to see. On the early list were places like the Grand Canyon, Hearst Castle, Durango and Silverton Railroad, Horseshoe Curve, The Getty Museum (both of them) and a few others.
I've added some national parks after seeing the recent Ken Burns piece, and still have a few tourist railroads to get to, but I'm glad I didn't put everything off until some future date.
And for those of you outside the USA, I'm going to finish the current list of things to see in the lower 48 before I add places like Alaska, Canada, Europe or Hawaii. (Been to Toronto and Montreal already, but these days I need a passport. Thanks to bin Laden and W. for that...)
Al Kaplan
10-14-2009, 17:10
Virgins are too much bother. A woman who likes to fish would be great.
Al: You only need the passport to get back into the Excited States. I don't see your problem. ;)
I like Zion National Park better than the Grand Canyon. But Lake Superior tops everything.
lightshot
10-14-2009, 17:51
Interesting point. I remember in grade school I would say, "when summer vacation comes, I'm going to ____" and generally not do it. Unless that ___ was swim in the hot weather or lie around doing nothing.
At the moment I thought, I have all summer, I'll do it later.
Maybe that's just the way we are. If you put it off now, you'll put it off later. Or put another way, if it's not fun or important enough to make time for now, you won't make time for it later either.
Another possibility is that it IS fun and important but we're just bad at prioritizing. On a negative note, if we're bad at prioritizing now, we'll probably still be bad at it later! :D
Beautifully put. :)
My philosophy since I was in my 20's has been "live with no regrets" and that applies to everything I do and all of the people I deal with. I also couldn't make much sense of folks (like my parents) who kept putting off things they wanted to do until "someday". I thought if I live for tomorrow or some nebulous future occurrences, then what am I doing with today?
Point is I do have the time to do what I want to do so I'm not procrastinating about doing the things that I enjoy. I think when I was working full time for someone else, that's when the procrastinating - the "I'll do it later" settled in. I was just too beat all the time to do a lot of the things I enjoy now.
I have a bucket list too but it's a short one. I want to see the United Kingdom (England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales) before I check out and would love to see the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam too. Unfortunatly I dont' fly so getting there will be tad bit problematic though.
My favorite all time quote, and the one I want on my tombstone is - "We give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant then it's night once more."
Samuel Beckett - Waiting for Godot
bmattock
10-14-2009, 17:59
I want to see the United Kingdom (England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales) before I check out and would love to see the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam too.
Ireland is not actually part of the UK. Just saying.
But I loved the Beckett!
Al Patterson
10-14-2009, 18:11
I like Zion National Park better than the Grand Canyon. But Lake Superior tops everything.
Trius and Fred,
In 2004 I did go to the Grand Canyon, Sedona, Gerome, and Page in AZ. Didn't get to Bryce or Zion on that trip. We also saw Antelope Canyon.
Drove back to CA via Rt. 66, and saw both Oatman and Lake Havasu City.
That trip with my Mom and my Sister, and later in the year I spent another two weeks in CO and NM chasing trains. Went to Georgetown Loop, Durango & Silverton and the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR. (Forgot to mention the Williams to Grand Canyon train trip earlier in the year).
2004 was probably the best year I've had to date. Made some decent money, traveled with family, had fun. Alas, it's been downhill since then, but such is life.
bmattock
10-14-2009, 18:13
Now it comes out, you are IRA? :D
As it turns out, I'm not even Irish. I always thought I was, but I was doing research into my family tree and I had the DNA thing done. I'm Welsh, by patrilineal descent; by both family name and genetics. Which makes a lot of sense, actually.
Did Sinn Fein even take its MP seats?
No, but those would be NI seats. The Republic of Ireland is not part of the UK and thus has never had seats in Parliament.
Italy was great, but at the time, lower Manhattan was "Paris" (http://www.nyu.edu/greyart/exhibits/downtown/dthome.htm), so Italy paled in comparison. I came to NYC at just the right moment, it was almost free to live below Canal, because of the recession, thousands of artists lived there, and part time work was everywhere.
Once in a lifetime experience. I loved every moment from 74-84.
Wow - that sounds incredible. I'm envious.
Like many others here have stated, I find that life is fleeting, and I've known several people that have died at relatively early ages ( in their forties and earlier ). While I plan for the future monetarily ( so that my wife and I have something to live on when we can no longer work ), I decided several years ago to live and do as much as I can in the years I'm given. It doesn't always work out, but I've found that it's better than saying to myself that "I'll be able to do this at such and such time" - which may never come around.
And speaking of envy...
Roger, I envy you living in France. It's such a beautiful place, filled with such a sense of history and culture. I truly do envy the Europeans and their attitude towards life and living, which is much superior to the US's ( mine own country ). All of that is how I feel (my OPINION), so save the flames...
Just to chime in on Bryce Canyon and Zion - two incredible places. I could have spent a week easy in Zion. Well worth going to. Also, if you're there in the summertime, definitely worth attending is the Utah Shakespeare festival - it's the best Shakespeare that I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. Always very well done. In fact, the greatest production that I ever saw, bar any play, was of The Winter's Tale there in '96. It was magical. Totally transformative. Just thinking about it gives me chills....
Well I'm busy with the typical young man's things. Ie, stressing about school, and trying to get women.
It was one big carnal smorgasbord that ended with married life. :eek:
bmattock
10-14-2009, 18:42
It was one big carnal smorgasbord that ended with married life. :eek:
Yeah. Lutefisk and smorebrod. [shudder]
Married life is much, much, better.
Roger Hicks
10-14-2009, 23:45
[QUOTE=jpa66;1166838]And speaking of envy...
Roger, I envy you living in France. . . . QUOTE]
The silly thing is though, you get used to (and blasé about) anywhere. Today, for example, is just another bright, beautiful, sunny morning, though cold (it got down to about 6C overnight) in a picture-perfect village with an 11th century castle on the hill and a 12th century church across the road...
The great thing is that in a day I can be in Spain or Switzerland or the UK: a long and tiring day, admittedly, in an elderly Land Rover. But I still yearn for Malta (where I lived as a boy and have visited many times since -- THERE'S history) and India (where I have never spent enough time) and the Greek islands (I was in northern Greece earlier this year, but it's not the same) and I doubt I'll ever get back to Bermuda, where I lived in my 'teens...
Everywhere has its advantages, even California where I lived for 5 years (Guadalupe on the Central Coast) and even though living in/visiting beautiful places is far, far better than living in gloomy dumps, it also brings its own small share of dissatisfaction. This is however a price I cheerfully pay for the life I have lead and continue to lead!
Cheers,
R.
[quote=Roger Hicks;1166978]
Everywhere has its advantages, even California where I lived for 5 years (Guadalupe on the Central Coast) and even though living in/visiting beautiful places is far, far better than living in gloomy dumps, it also brings its own small share of dissatisfaction. This is however a price I cheerfully pay for the life I have lead and continue to lead!
Roger,
I can understand exactly what you mean. Living in different places does indeed have its own advantages and disadvantages. For me, it comes down to satisfaction in your everyday life. If you're not satisfied now, I don't believe that planning to do something/s when you are retired will bring you the epiphany that you think it will. However, planning to improve to everyday does have its rewards, and can eventually pay off.
That said, I'm still envious, as I would love the opportunity to see what life is truly like living in that part of Europe. And Malta - it's one of the places that are on my list. Maybe I can swing it when I visit the South of France next May...
JP
I had the DNA thing done. I'm Welsh
Well that explains a lot!!! :D
I have spent about a week in Zion, but felt it wasn't really enough. I've always wanted to go to Arches, Bryce, etc., but could never drag myself out of Zion. I have Kodachromes somewhere.
Roger Hicks
10-15-2009, 23:49
[
Roger,
I can understand exactly what you mean. Living in different places does indeed have its own advantages and disadvantages. For me, it comes down to satisfaction in your everyday life. If you're not satisfied now, I don't believe that planning to do something/s when you are retired will bring you the epiphany that you think it will. However, planning to improve to everyday does have its rewards, and can eventually pay off.
That said, I'm still envious, as I would love the opportunity to see what life is truly like living in that part of Europe. And Malta - it's one of the places that are on my list. Maybe I can swing it when I visit the South of France next May...
JP
Exactly. And (let's not forget) you may be more willing to carry 20 lb+ of LF camera and dark-slides when you're 40, and not realize just how unappetizing that will look at 60.
Malta really is stunning. Take a look at http://www.semiadventuroustraveler.com/pst%20malta.html (about visiting the island) and at the old galleries on the site at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/gallery/g%20malta%200.html. The gallery is not very good -- it's from when I first set up the site, so the quality is ropey -- but there are more pics of Malta there.
Where are you going to be in the South of France? Malta is easiest and cheapest to get to from England (by air) or Italy (by sea).
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
10-15-2009, 23:53
[QUOTE=Roger Hicks;1166978]
Good god, were you involved with the US air force? I have through there, VERY flat. Los Padres is quite beautiful but from what I hear has been on fire now for over 2 years.
Dear Fred,
Well, Guadalupe is flat (apart from low mesas), but the dunes are pretty amazing, and you're only a few miles from the hills inland of Sta. Maria, and there's quite a lot of undulation as you go up the coast to San Luis Obispo.
No, not air force, though we could hear the rockets taking off from Vandenberg.
Cheers,
R.
I can’t remember who said “live every day as if it were your last, study as if you will live forever” … or something like that, I probably don’t but I like the idea
As it turns out, I'm Welsh, by patrilineal descent.
I shall now read your stuff in Rob Brydon’s accent ... look-you
Where are you going to be in the South of France? Malta is easiest and cheapest to get to from England (by air) or Italy (by sea).
Cheers,
R.
Roger,
My wife and I plan on spending a week somewhere in Provence, but haven't decided where exactly yet ( someplace relatively small, but not in the middle of nowhere ). The plan from there is either to go over to Italy and spend some time there, or spend more time in France ( probably the Loire Valley ). The trip's still in the planning stages, but everything will most likely be set by the end of January, so we still have some time to figure out ( or agonise over ) where to go. Too many places I want to see, and too little time/money...
Roger Hicks
10-16-2009, 05:32
Roger,
My wife and I plan on spending a week somewhere in Provence, but haven't decided where exactly yet ( someplace relatively small, but not in the middle of nowhere ). The plan from there is either to go over to Italy and spend some time there, or spend more time in France ( probably the Loire Valley ). The trip's still in the planning stages, but everything will most likely be set by the end of January, so we still have some time to figure out ( or agonise over ) where to go. Too many places I want to see, and too little time/money...
Go straight to Malta from Italy: much quicker and easier. Provence is... well... delightful but more of the same (but with better drivers and better food as compared with Italy). Malta is however unique. In Provence, consider Arles or Avignon.
If you do make it to the Loire valley, that's where we are, about 30 miles north of Poitiers/60 miles south of Tours, so if you're passing...
Cheers,
R.
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