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View Full Version : It there a 50mm lens like the M-Rokkor 40/2?


lukaz85
09-18-2009, 08:14
Hi there, I'm looking for a fast 50mm lens (between f1.4 and f2.0), which has a similar picture quality like the M-Rokkor 40/2. I absolutely love the M-Rokkor, especially how it draws the bokeh areas and that it is sharp (without being too sharp).

A quote from The Online Photographer (http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/why-40mm.html):
"A few years later, looking for a "Leica with AE," I became aware of the Minolta CLE. It, too, had a 40mm normal lens—the Minolta 40mm ƒ/2 M-Rokkor. This turned out to be one of the best lenses I've ever used, fantastically sharp and smooth. My friend John Kennerdell, a photographer who lived in Bangkok at the time, told me that one Japanese connoisseur had dubbed it "the Water Lens." Curiously, it was one of the only lenses I've ever used that consistently drew positive comments about sharpness and clarity from non-photographers looking at my prints."

rover
09-18-2009, 08:21
I found the Tabbed 50/2 Summicron to be very simmilar. I have a couple shots comparing the two, I don't think I have access to them right now. I will try to remember to post them tonight.

rover
09-18-2009, 08:24
let's see if this works

40/2 Rokkor

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/15/U15I1098569579.SEQ.0.jpg

rover
09-18-2009, 08:26
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/3015/medium/Untitled-8.jpg

Edit, this is the Rokkor too

ferider
09-18-2009, 08:29
Definitely a Summicron 50/2. I think v3 might be even closer than v4.

maddoc
09-18-2009, 08:30
I am also a fan of the 40mm M-Rokkor and what comes most close in 50mm is the M-Hexanon (50/2.0). That's of course only my two cents .... :)

Cheers,

Gabor

rover
09-18-2009, 08:32
50/2 tabbed Summicron

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3028/3008550411_8a286d9d3d.jpg

rover
09-18-2009, 08:33
No clue what lens this was, but since I am posting photos of Molly... ;)

Correction, this is the Summicron 50 too

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3245/3008550351_4083e5fac5.jpg

snausages
09-18-2009, 08:39
I'd think a 50 Cron of the same vintage as the 40 would be the logical match since the Rokkor is, as far as I know, a 40 Cron.

Here's a comparison of the 40 Cron and a ZM Planar 50 2.0 in the same light environment:

40mm Summicron-c at f2:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3526/3744494686_5b68e79a16.jpg

50mm ZM Planar at f2:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3502/3743605975_538998b16c.jpg

The Zeiss is more clinically sharp and contrasty at f2, but I still think they pair well and have had both in my bag lately. But if you want an exact match with the 40, then, yeah, maybe a 50 cron?

rover
09-18-2009, 08:43
Now nobody is going to want to see any more pictures of my doggie.

snausages
09-18-2009, 08:47
Now nobody is going to want to see any more pictures of my doggie.

Molly looks awesome, bring em on!

maddoc
09-18-2009, 08:55
Keep 'em coming !! The photos of Molly, I mean. :)

Trius
09-18-2009, 09:57
Who's Molly? Oh yeah, I forgot ...

lukaz85
09-18-2009, 13:46
Ok, at first thanks for the quick answers.

@maddoc: I had a M-Hexanon 50/2, and as far as I liked that lens, it wasn't what I'm looking for. Sure, it is sharp, even wide open, but the quality of bokeh can't match with the M-Rokkor. It's not bad, just too subtle - could be fine for many users, of course.

@snausages2000: You made some really nice captures. I saw some Zeiss ZM pictures before (usually by the Biogon 35/2), and I also often think they have some clinical characterics. Very clean and sharp. But I have to admit that I like the picture quality of your 2nd capture.

@ferider & rover: I don't know much about the Summicrons, especially the 50mm lenses. Can you suggest one of them? As far as I know I don't need the new apherical ones. As the M-Rokkor is probably the same lens as the Summicron 40/2, this would be a logical step.

Don't hesitate to show more of your dog captures, rover ;)

ferider
09-18-2009, 14:01
Have a look here, Lukaz:

http://www.antiquecameras.net/50summicronmlenses.html

I was referring to the 3rd version, Ralph to the fourth. They are very similar.

Best,

Roland.

rover
09-18-2009, 15:22
Have a look here, Lukaz:

http://www.antiquecameras.net/50summicronmlenses.html

I was referring to the 3rd version, Ralph to the fourth. They are very similar.

Best,

Roland.

Roland is the man when it comes to these lenses. I corrected the photos above, two are from the Rokkor and two from the Summicron. My first impression when I saw my images from both of these lenses was that they looked very similar in characteristics. There are a number of great 50mm lenses, including the Hex and ZM, but if you are looking for a match for your 40, I think the Summicron is the one.

nksyoon
09-18-2009, 23:17
50 Summicron, tabbed, separate hood, 4th version according to antiquecameras.net, 5th version according to Cameraquest.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1385/544465942_7a767d3f56_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/45/136477543_fc1bcada1f_o.jpg

MP/CLE
09-19-2009, 16:53
I may be oversimplifying but why not just use the rokkor 40? That is almost the only lens I use anyway, but I use it for a reason...

raid
09-19-2009, 18:10
I once compared the 40/2 Summicron-C to the 43mm 1.9 Pentax Limited. Both lenses are spectacular.

I sold my CL but I kept the 40/2. Just get a 40/2 and be done.

awilder
09-19-2009, 18:38
Definitely the 3rd version 50 Summicron (69'-79'). It's reputation is sharp but slightly less so than the 4th and current versions. I use to have both and found this to be true. Also if you look at the MTF plots of the 40/2 Summicron (similar design to the 40/2 Rokkor), it's fingerprint the most like the 3rd version of the 50 Summicron.

dng88
09-21-2009, 07:18
However, look at the bokeh of the boy picture at http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M9-digital-rangefinder-camera.html. It is not that nice. The black and white photos above might seems have less issues I guess. But compare with 35 f2, 50 f2 seems not that consistently good in bokeh (see the same blog but a little bit down there).

I am thinking about 90 f2 and 50 f2 (both pre asph as it cannot afford even used one). Are they like this in bokeh as well?

rover
09-21-2009, 07:58
However, look at the bokeh of the boy picture at http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M9-digital-rangefinder-camera.html. It is not that nice. The black and white photos above might seems have less issues I guess. But compare with 35 f2, 50 f2 seems not that consistently good in bokeh (see the same blog but a little bit down there).

I am thinking about 90 f2 and 50 f2 (both pre asph as it cannot afford even used one). Are they like this in bokeh as well?


Is it only the bra photo that you dislike the bokeh? If so, any lens in those conditions will look similarly. That is just the worst case scenerio for smooth bokeh back in those ugly trees with light coming through them. I have never seen a smooth image from any lens in that situtation.

ferider
09-21-2009, 08:45
Like Ralph said. Your Rokkor would behave similarly. Also note that this is taken using v4, which is a bit sharper and "harder" than v3.

Also, I might get flak for this, but I personally believe, bokeh wise, digital and film to have different behavior. I have only empirical evidence for this, however.

Roland.

lukaz85
10-14-2009, 06:29
Ok, folks. I ordered a v3 Summicron (according to Antique Cameras), what should arrive this week. Thanks so far.

@ferider: You're right, I also noticed a difference in bokeh between film and digital cameras. There was also a report about that in a German photomag ("Schwarzweiss"). As far as I remember, the conclusion was that there is a different DOF.

Benjamin
10-14-2009, 06:46
Molly is a nice name for a dog.

Jacob
10-14-2009, 07:00
If You like the Rokkor but look for a 50mm fow, get an M8 and the 40mm becomes a 53mm.
I have no idea what happens with the character though...
Good luck with the summicron!
Jacob

lukaz85
10-14-2009, 09:47
The summicron is noticeable cheaper than the M8 ;)