View Full Version : Why do I get these feelings? - and do you?
Dave Wilkinson
09-14-2009, 15:00
Yesterday was a fine, bright and breezy autumn day, and a big one in the town's calendar, as we were hosting the start of the international round the world clipper race. The city centre and adjoining marina, and entire waterfront were absolutely teeming with visitors from near and far, enjoying the carnival atmosphere before the start.
Everywhere I looked there were literally hundreds of photogs, male and female, with big new- looking bags around them, and each with a big, black DSLR and zoom, jostling for positions with the folks with compact digi-cams, gleefully snapping (with flash) the backs of the crowd, with arms above the head - trying to frame the yachts, two hundred meters away in the estuary!.
I just had my usual Nikon compact in the pocket, as my main task was shepherding young grand children, that we had for the day. Later as we headed back to the car, my wife remarked in a surprised way "Dave -you have'nt taken any pictures today!", somehow I just did'nt want to join in with what seemed like pointless and often silly attempts at picture taking - with identical looking cameras. I find I'm feeling this way more and more at similar events, I don't really know why - I suppose I should relish the opportunity!, am I just getting cynical in old age, loosing enthusiasm?...or what?
Cheers, Dave.
I often get the "why bother" feeling of discouragement. I was in Whistler for a conference in April, and it coincided with a snowboarding competition. I was toting around an SLR with a long lens, and found myself in a small square area at the foot of Blackcomb. There must have been two dozen people taking exactly the same photograph, from the same perspective. I took a couple of photographs, realized that I couldn't produce any image that was markedly different than anybody else's, and so I simply lost interest.
I think that I take personal photographs either because the subject has special meaning for me (pictures of my family) or because I think that the particular perspective I have on the subject is unique to me and hasn't been captured before. That sense disappears if there are scores of people making the identical capture ...
mfunnell
09-14-2009, 16:46
Perhaps crowds can be off-putting at times, but you did say there was a "carnival atmpsphere" so perhaps you could have just relaxed and enjoyed that.
The last time I went along to such a thing was last year, here in Sydney, when the QE2 was retiring and the Queen Victoria was "replacing" her in the Cunard fleet (a cruise ship can't really replace an ocean liner, but that's the role of the QM2). My father came to visit, and we went along to see the ships (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mfunnell/sets/72157604078461133/).
Sure, there were crowds:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/2319885503_8fc534edd1_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mfunnell/2319885503/)
And lots of photographers, even ones using DSLRs:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2175/2320696220_c9dd0de4c4_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mfunnell/2320696220/)
(that one is my father, and I was using a DSLR myself)
But I found the occasional slightly different perspective:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2204/2320699432_bd7bd3cb75_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mfunnell/2320699432/)
And also knew my way around town to know a good spot to get the "ships meet" shot well enough:
http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs25/f/2008/070/b/b/QE2_meets_QV_in_Sydney_by_mfunnell.jpg (http://mfunnell.deviantart.com/art/QE2-meets-QV-in-Sydney-79606706)
Maybe lots of other people got that shot. I know Dad did:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2226/2320736390_466a3dfb62_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mfunnell/2320736390/)
But who cares?
I have my shot printed at 16"x10" framed and on the wall and others in an album. Reminders of a good day out, with my father, that we and lots of others enjoyed. I don't care that others might have enjoyed it except for being glad they did. I don't care that I used a camera similar to lots of others or even that others may have similar shots.
Why should I?
...Mike
Nikon Bob
09-14-2009, 16:55
Mike
I get your point from the photo, one looks like a sleek ocean liner and the other a hotel sitting on a barge.
Bob
All cameras do the same thing, and if there are many photographers around their results are apt to be similar. I take pictures, or do not take them, depending on whether or not they will be used or, in a larger sense, useful. If two other people have cameras at a child's birthday party or a political meeting, I may not use my camera(s). But if I have specifically been asked to take pictures -- or if I intend to send the pictures out in any form -- I shoot.
blackwave
09-14-2009, 18:19
I used to get this feeling often as well. I figured out (I speak for myself!) that event snapshots or taking pictures just to remember the event/vacation/whatever is not my cup of tea. For a quasi-serious photographer, I'm just not sentimental about things like that. I shoot very few photos on vacations or out at festivals, etc. I'd rather spend that time enjoying myself. I go out to shoot photos OR I go out to enjoy my time. They don't overlap much.
Dave, I think you were just in the moment, aware of how you were reacting to the events and atmosphere, and simply did what felt appropriate. Just being and enjoying is enough. Making photos is not a requirement just because you know how.
helenhill
09-14-2009, 18:24
know the FEELING....
In NYC its as if your Surrounded...cameras EVERYWHERE :eek:
& then I have to remember that shot hanging on my Wall
or that photo I saw in a Book or Gallery...
andredossantos
09-14-2009, 18:51
Generally I avoid crowds and crowded events. When I am in the situation the OP described I feel the same. I think it more though that crowded touristy type areas anywhere dont inspire me much. Not trying to denigrate those who do enjoy shooing in those environs. On the contrary I appreciate like crazy and am in awe of those who can do it well. I guess it's just that I really don't do much photographing of people, classic street photography type of stuff.
kshapero
09-14-2009, 19:06
I no longer "do weddings". Too boring and all the same. What I will do is come to the wedding bring a rangefinder with B&W film and just do what I want. Sometime I get some good results.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3450/3879451149_08981c9638.jpg
A man waits to be married while his Grandfather looks on.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3437/3879449693_8b5f6531d8.jpg
Others shot but I don't care
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/3880246866_688b8a412a.jpg
Brother and mother of the bride wait pensively.
I'm not particularly sentimental, blackwave: just that those people are to whom I give prints, and it's a good feeling to have been useful.
bkrystad
09-14-2009, 21:36
I was at a wonderful anniversary celebration for my brother and his wife this summer in Norway. I had along my CLE with an M-Rokkor 40mm, and I promised my sister-in-law -- as had many others -- to take some pictures.
My approach was this: If I saw a bunch of people raising their DSLRs and compacts at the same time, I put my RF down. But if I heard two or more people laughing together nearby, I quickly picked it up.
Out of three rolls I shot that day, I ended up with a dozen frames I feel really good about.
Dave Wilkinson
09-15-2009, 02:00
I think my'problem' is just that I have never been a follower of fashion, or current trends, or a 'joiner', and the nearest I ever got to joining a photographic society or camera club, was the annual open-day - or finding RFF! LOL. I suppose on Sunday, the sight of all those 'faceless', 'nameless' black DSLR's just turned me off, and secretly-I wished that I had taken along one of my Nikkormats, or an M2!. So I reckon I must just be one of these 'inverted snobs', because when I arrived home I fondly loaded a roll of HP5+ into the FT2 ready for my next jaunt!....and that big 300mm f4 Nikkor - in it's leather case....now that would have had a few stares - down at the riverside as I struggled to hold it steady! :D
Dave.
OurManInTangier
09-15-2009, 02:18
I understand the feeling, I used to photograph at a seaside airshow quite alot until recently. Most had DSLR cameras with long lenses to get the aircraft but I used my RF camera to get the people enjoying the day. My biggest problem both there and at similar events is getting the 'backs of heads' shots. Sometimes you can make them quite funky whilst othertimes they simply fail. In the end I decided to just shoot details such as hand gestures, expressions, contact etc.
I think you either look for a different way of shooting the event or pack up and simply enjoy it. Neithers wrong if you're not getting paid and the decision is yours to make.
Spider67
09-15-2009, 02:52
@Akiva: Ilove the first one, the gromm looks like a little boy on his first schoolday. The power our elders have over us that btransforms us inti kids in an instant! (Mothers have a much greater power to do so than grandfathers)
@Mike: Great photo of your Dad taking that photo!
I understand what you mean. For I get a call from my boss in my spare time to do some work: Because everyone is wielding his camera and I have mine with me I have to use it also.....wait a minute I don't want it! You spent your day with your grandkids and I bet it was more rewarding than a soso photo
Bike Tourist
09-15-2009, 02:55
It's hard, especially at my age, to avoid the "been there, done that" syndrome. Two things usually work for me:
I take a vacation from photography until the urge strikes, at which time I can return, refreshed, with new ideas.
It seems counter-intuitive, but I restrict my parameters, usually by limiting the lens choice to just one and trying to work within the limitations by being creative.
Or, I just grind out cookie cutter similars to what has gone before and relax, enjoying the act of shooting for its own sake.
Hey Dave, not getting old, you're just using your brain :) Why bother shooting pictures of boats that you can't even see yourself through the crowds?
I such cases I would just take out the camera and try to shoot little things around me, kids dropping their icecream or people yawning while they're standing next to some amazing boat.. I don't know.. I usually also don't care for shooting stuff that everybody else is already taking pictures of. I prefer just to look with my own eyes at those things and use my camera for other stuff :)
Roger Hicks
09-15-2009, 03:18
I go out to shoot photos OR I go out to enjoy my time. They don't overlap much.
You only shoot commercially, then? And you don't even enjoy that very much? If you don't enjoy it, why do you take pictures?
I must be misunderstanding you.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
09-15-2009, 03:27
Dear Dave,
I know what you mean -- sort of. 'Feeding frenzies' just suggest to me that I don't have the freedom to move around and shoot what I want, so I prefer to be somewhere less crowded. I went to Venice once (and once was enough). I got far better pictures in the back-streets and around the back-canals than St. Mark's Square -- where frankly, all I shot was tourists shootong the pigeons, and the like. Likewise in Athens I was happier away from the Akropolis.
There are some places that are so magical you can just wait until the crowds are out of the way -- Ggatija and Hagar Qim in Malta spring to mind -- but the crowds aren't usually that big anyway. And at our big local music festival, in June, there are crowds, but very few other photographers: certainly no 'feeding frenzies'.
Cheers,
Roger
Never go out without some gear ( Cameras that is !). Drives the missus nuts but there are an awfull lot of my pics on the walls of her family and friends and others and rarely the stuff I shoot professionaly.
Never go out to look for a picture.
Often go out for a look and see a picture.
Dear Dave,
I went to Venice once (and once was enough). I got far better pictures in the back-streets and around the back-canals than St. Mark's Square -- where frankly, all I shot was tourists shootong the pigeons, and the like. Likewise in Athens I was happier away from the Akropolis.
photographers: c
Cheers,
Roger
Dear Roger
Love Venice and the back street canals and the early morning deliveries by gondola's to the stores and the morning winter frosts on the rooftops.
Do wish the 'tourists' would shoot the pigeons in St Marks though
but not with cameras.
Regards
Peter.
PS will not be able to post for a few days at least as the 'sawbones' await my presence in the operating theatre.
P
Bobfrance
09-15-2009, 04:07
I find pointing your camera in the opposite direction to everyone else can reveal interesting results.
tritiated
09-15-2009, 04:28
It's a natural aversion to 'group think'. It's probably what makes your photos good, keeps you inventive.
Because as a more sophisticated photographer you feel superior (I'd say a snob rather that an inverted snob). Yes I do.
www.urbanpaths.net (http://www.urbanpaths.net)
This is why it's so important to use a Leica Dave ... being in amongst numerous other photographers all taking photos of the same thing still remains a unique experience due to the unquestionably superior quality of your equipment!
Ten years ago I went to Europe and carefully avoided for the most part the usual "scenic" places of London and other European capitals. Instead I spent my days walking around the ordinary and interesting streets and byways of the cities. I thought that in London for example, there are much more interesting places to photograph than the Tower Bridge or Buck House - the Inns of Court for example, the ancient area where barristers work near Fleet Street, same idea in Budapest, same in Vienna. And for the most part here was not another "rubber neck" to be seen. I kinda make it my rule of thumb for good street shooting - point the camera in the other direction!
Dave Wilkinson
09-15-2009, 14:23
This is why it's so important to use a Leica Dave ... being in amongst numerous other photographers all taking photos of the same thing still remains a unique experience due to the unquestionably superior quality of your equipment! Yes, I suppose there is that aspect - even though it's supposed to be the results that count!, and I can't help feeling a little pleasure, at the look of amazement from some people when I tell them I've been using that Nikkormat since 1973!:)
Dave.
SolaresLarrave
09-15-2009, 14:35
There are days in which it's better to take in the scenery, event of circumstance. I've been there and done that... and never regretted it.
So, Dave, you're not losing your enthusiasm, rather refining your taste.
Dave Wilkinson
09-15-2009, 14:39
Since 1090 I have been shooting mostly in my studio, no other photographers there at all. Well....each to their own Fred! - but I am too fond of 'the great outdoors'! :)
Dave.
surfer dude
09-16-2009, 01:03
Hi Dave,
I'm sure everyone feels the same inertia that you felt at some time or other. As some others have alluded, it may be more fun to point your camera towards the crazy scene of all the other people trying to get the same picture. There is a fantastic book by Martin Parr called "Home and Abroad" where his approach has been to show the quirky behaviour of people, more often than not with cameras, in similar situations to yours. I'd personally love to see a picture of all those people at the docks - your description gives me a great mental picture of it.
Cheers, Phil
Touristy areas are still part of the city I think and I like to photograph many different aspects of cities. Actually I think places with lots of photographers are good to photograph. In places where cameras are rare or uncommon (like in the suburbs), you stand out too much and it forces you to act differently and to take different type of photos. These touristy areas might give an opportunity for the kind of photographs you might not be able to get anywhere else because you blend in more. The photographers themselves can be interesting subjects too, as others have suggested.
I posted some pictures in the critique forum this morning of a recent motorsport event. I had a similar feeling at the event - I got there and saw a load of people milling around the track in yellow vests (so allowed to go beyond the barriers for the 'best' shots), toting DSLRs with huge L series lenses. It took me a while to get the courage to grab my camera bag from the car and have a go.
I did take some boring same-old type pictures of the cars on the track, and it was a useful learning experience, but my favourites were the ones I snapped while wandering around the pits and the edge of the circuit.
A few days later hundreds of photos appeared on a related forum but someone commented that mine were their favourites of the day, mine were also posted on the main page of the Driftworks website (online store and community for drifting). The pictures aren't anything amazing but they are different and seem to evoke memories in people who were there which is more than enough to make me happy and glad that I went back to the car for my gear. I just wish the battery in the Canonet hadn't died.
There's difference between snap shots and real pictures. You people understand this, most others don't. I have a camera with me most of the time (lately), and look for anything that will make a picture, and a few snap shots here and there to keep the missus happy. Going the other direction when faced with a hoard of camera-packing snappers is not just a good idea, It's a life saver, I get the screaming heebie-jeebies in crouds like that.
And I think you can console yourselves with the fact that less than one in ten of them will ever venture beyound the Auto setting on the camera, explaining why the results will predominently be less than satisfactory. Waste of gigabytes.
There's difference between snap shots and real pictures. You people understand this, most others don't. I have a camera with me most of the time (lately), and look for anything that will make a picture, and a few snap shots here and there to keep the missus happy. Going the other direction when faced with a hoard of camera-packing snappers is not just a good idea, It's a life saver, I get the screaming heebie-jeebies in crouds like that.
And I think you can console yourselves with the fact that less than one in ten of them will ever venture beyound the Auto setting on the camera, explaining why the results will predominently be less than satisfactory. Waste of gigabytes.
What’s wrong with snapshots? most of my photos are snapshots
What then is the definition of snapshot? In my book its snapping of a shot documenting that you or the family where there, doing this or that, which in these cases is more important than photogprahic quality. A snapshot is, according to lore, originally a hunting term coining the act of firing off a shot without time to take aim.
EDIT: And by the way, most of my pictures are also snapshots, at least what I deam to be snapshots. What is your point really?
What then is the definition of snapshot? In my book its snapping of a shot documenting that you or the family where there, doing this or that, which in these cases is more important than photogprahic quality. A snapshot is, according to lore, originally a hunting term coining the act of firing off a shot without time to take aim.
EDIT: And by the way, most of my pictures are also snapshots, at least what I deam to be snapshots. What is your point really?
photographing stuff as it happens, without any pre-visualisation or conscious thought
I don’t have a point :)
kitaanat
10-02-2009, 07:30
Bobfrance, Renzsu good suggestion.
IMO, you can try taking a photo in different way you or other one would take
a different angle that you've never try or compose the way that other didn't.
If any one go to take a boat you can take in the back of them or taking a photo
of a big group of photographers that point all of their lens to a nice pretty in the event...
I used to wait someone to be out of my frame and I can take the photo that I want
but when I saw some pictures that have other people there is something
inside these picture. They interact with each other or doing something together
that can add some story, mood, lifelines into the frame.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3259/2660767492_d9188e63d1_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitaanat/2660767492/)
with my evil SLR taken on 1996
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/2662529829_55b59eabdf_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitaanat/2662529829/)
with my evil SLR taken on 1996
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/3864402811_15287bee50_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitaanat/3864402811/)
Kodak Retina IIIC taken on 2009
when your can not get close to the subject you can try different thing
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3202/2805786619_58111329d3_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitaanat/2805786619/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3232/2805504345_9228afd3a3_m.jpg
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitaanat/2805504345)
think different and you'll enjoy photography again. :)
The scene of photographing photographers tent to be more similar from event to event than the events themselves!
shadowfox
10-02-2009, 08:38
...
I such cases I would just take out the camera and try to shoot little things around me, kids dropping their icecream or people yawning while they're standing next to some amazing boat.. I don't know.. I usually also don't care for shooting stuff that everybody else is already taking pictures of. I prefer just to look with my own eyes at those things and use my camera for other stuff :)
Exactly!
I think this is what differentiate some of us than the throng with their cameras. Some of us like to take pictures of people doing what people do. It's not being a snob, it's a subject preference.
When you look at it that way, events become so much less boring :)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1116/1453875141_6bc235dae0_o.jpg
"Yo! up here..."
giellaleafapmu
10-02-2009, 09:44
I get the same feeling sometimes when I go to visit a hugely famous monument. What picture can one possibly take of the Eiffel Tower that has not already been taken a zirillion times? But then I think that if one feels that there are only finitely many picture you can possibly take of a tower then what about a bottle of perfume? And I try something. When I go to sport events it is a completely different story, I just feel always incredibly under equipped. I often know that a fast 600mm, a good location and a monopode could make the difference but I don't have them and probably if I had them I would still lack the determination of speaking to people in order to get permission to get to that good spot, which is probably also full of other photographers with whom you have a elbow battle which requires muay thai skills... Just that kind of photography is not for me pure and simple... But I know it is my problem, and that better photographer can get incredible shots which I very much enjoy watching, I am simply not good enough!
GLF
kitaanat
10-02-2009, 18:28
shadowfox, nice picture.
Dave,
I've felt the same way many times, and in those situations I usually take a snapshot to record the event or place and just try to enjoy where I'm at. Maybe I'm a bit snobbish about photography, but I remember when you actually had to use your brain and some skill to take a decent photograph. This began to change when Point and Shoots came out ( known to my photography friends and myself ( and my instructors as well ) as "idiot-proof cameras" ) and now everyone thinks that they're a photographer.
I guess that this is a good thing in that people are taking photographs, but I can't help but wonder if it cheapens the whole art of photography - kind of like seeing all those Monet paintings being (over)used in calendars and such makes me not want to look at them anymore.
shadowfox
10-02-2009, 19:13
shadowfox, nice picture.
Thank you.
jongcelebes
10-21-2009, 21:34
In my case, I'm annoy-er because I'm using normal lens while the rest using zoom-tele lens. I tend to get close and get into their frame at some nice moment. Sorry...
I have found if I allow myself, I will experience moments of intimidation & defeat. In crowds I have to mentally psych myself to think the heck with everyone else & blot them out as if there's no one there. It's a weird feeling but I notice that after I put the camera to my eye & hear that first snap of the shutter, I'm immediately transformed into "the zone" & it's like "get out of my way" I've got to get the shot. Quite a rush really to become or at least feel I've become the intimidator. Something indeed magical about that first click.:)
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