View Full Version : OK you got yours ... now where's ours?
It seems that the rangefinder user minority has been catered for finally which says a lot about the power of whinging ... they now have their compact full frame digital rangefinder and good luck to them.
But what about us ... the SLR users ... when do we get our go?
To get a full frame DSLR I have to buy a monstrocity of a camera that looks more like a cut down PC that's been painted black! I want something about the size of an OM-1 or Nikon F with manual focus and I don't give a damn if it can't shoot eight frames per second. I'd like to be able to set the ISO and shutter speed with a simple twist of a dial and not have to dive into some menu ... or have to hold down button X while I rotate dial Y attempting to still maintain a grip on the camera.
I also don't want a sh!tty litle micro 4/3 with a crop factor of two or so that produces images that can't really seem to decide whether they are square, landscape, or somewhere in between. I also don't want an overpriced point and shoot with a five minute shutter delay and more noise than a teen party at ISO settings above 400!
Come on guys (canikon)... Leica has shown the lead here in sticking their neck out ... give us a small uncomplicated full frame DSLR we can actually use!
:)
Dave Wilkinson
09-10-2009, 03:19
You're rattling a few cages today Keith!...must be nearly bedtime - down there? :D
Mark Wood
09-10-2009, 03:21
Sony seem to be getting the right idea, having declared that "Live View" and "Video" modes are "Entry Level Features."
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Sony_Alpha_850_Live_View_is_an_entrylevel_feature_ says_Sony_Chief_news_288932.html
A (very small) step in the right direction.
You're rattling a few cages today Keith!...must be nearly bedtime - down there? :D
It's been a boring day ... just finished an eight day stint in the city yesterday but no work today! :o
I did finally manage to get my Hasselblad system together and I'm ready to take photos ... that thing makes some sound when you press the shutter! :eek: :D
a full frame d70 would be nice, that way the meter switches off with my old lenses too … perfect
Dave Wilkinson
09-10-2009, 03:32
It's been a boring day ... just finished an eight day stint in the city yesterday but no work today! :o
I did finally manage to get my Hasselblad system together and I'm ready to take photos ... that thing makes some sound when you press the shutter! :eek: :D If you put all that antique stuff in a big box, and take it for trade-in......you're halfway to Leica's new Fed 3 copy!:D
kshapero
09-10-2009, 03:41
Sony seem to be getting the right idea, having declared that "Live View" and "Video" modes are "Entry Level Features."
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Sony_Alpha_850_Live_View_is_an_entrylevel_feature_ says_Sony_Chief_news_288932.html
A (very small) step in the right direction.I am sorry that is in the exact wrong direction. Read Keith's intial post. We want the equvilant of a FF Digital Om-1 or Nikon FM with NO frills. Video and live view are frills if I get Keith right.
ruby.monkey
09-10-2009, 03:41
All you need is a Nikon F, a Digital Module R, and a big enough hammer... ;)
ZeissFan
09-10-2009, 03:45
When I want full frame, I just use a film camera. No chromatic aberration. No crop factor. No shutter lag. I get a "live view" -- it's called the viewfinder. No idiotic scene modes.
I just don't have instant gratification. If I wanted that ... oh, never mind.
Win some, lose some.
Personally, I'm tired to chasing the digital holy grail. Too much of my money has been spent on digital cameras that underwhelm. However, they do seem to work well for photographing my real cameras.
ZeissFan
09-10-2009, 03:48
I am sorry that is in the exact wrong direction. Read Keith's intial post. We want the equvilant of a FF Digital Om-1 or Nikon FM with NO frills. Video and live view are frills if I get Keith right.
What the article says is that Sony's most recent camera -- a full-frame dSLR doesn't have video or Live View, as the company sees those as entry level features.
Sony is on the right track -- the body just needs to be smaller. We're tired of having to buy a tank when a subcompact will do just as well.
My OM1 has "live view" all the way back in 1973
mabelsound
09-10-2009, 04:15
I kinda like my crop sensor DSLR, as it extends my tele lenses, and I don't think I really want a FF DSLR. But I'd like to think that Leica's innovation will spur the manufacturers to action.
Even the small DSLR's are a joke ... I was wandering around at a job the other day taking a few pics with my OM-2 and the very pleasant woman who was managing the project I was helping my friend Adrian with spotted my Oly. She was taking pics for the Brisbane City Council's project blog with a D40 which she handed to me while she had a look at the OM-2. I looked through the viewfinder of the D40 and was shocked ... it was a dark little tunnel and the camera itself had more buttons than you could poke a stick at. Admittedly the viewfinder of an OM is pretty darned good but this Nikon was horrible ... when she looked through the beautiful bright viewfinder of the Olympus, I saw the surprise on her face! :p
The Canon 5D, Nikon D700, Sony A900 and A850 don't come with a grip, and they're not any larger than a film slr.
chris91387
09-10-2009, 04:50
i want a DSLR that's the size and simplicity of my Nikon FM. manual focus; iso dial...hell, call it "asa" just for fun; no menus to have to sift through; 60/40 meter with maybe a spot option; mirror lockup might be cool; easy to read with minimal info presented in the viewfinder.
kshapero
09-10-2009, 04:51
The Canon 5D, Nikon D700, Sony A900 and A850 don't come with a grip, and they're not any larger than a film slr.By Film SLR, you must be referring to the monster Nikon F5, not an OM-1 or a Nikon FM or a Pentax MX.
Mark Wood
09-10-2009, 04:55
What the article says is that Sony's most recent camera -- a full-frame dSLR doesn't have video or Live View, as the company sees those as entry level features.
Sony is on the right track -- the body just needs to be smaller. We're tired of having to buy a tank when a subcompact will do just as well.
I thought I'd read and interpreted the article properly!!!
Mark Wood
09-10-2009, 04:58
I am sorry that is in the exact wrong direction. Read Keith's intial post. We want the equvilant of a FF Digital Om-1 or Nikon FM with NO frills. Video and live view are frills if I get Keith right.
Err, I did read Keith's post and the AP article! Sony are saying that these frills are for "entry level users" as partial justification for missing them off their new full frame SLR.
been waiting a while Nikon to expand use of FF-sensors to next category after D700, namely successor of D90. I had same sized D200 (vs. D700) earlier, and its just too large and heavy for me, so am awaiting lighter alternative to use my old Nikkor primes on FF.
Canons recent launch of 7D (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/) as APS-C camera does not promise good, if its a wider tend that Nikon also follows.
gnarayan
09-10-2009, 05:02
Come on guys (canikon)... Leica has shown the lead here in sticking their neck out ... give us a small uncomplicated full frame DSLR we can actually use!
Small would be great. Fullframe is great because I want the VF. I love my OMs.
But uncomplicated...
Leica has certainly taken the lead in producing $7k digital cameras that are exactly like their 50 year old film cameras and "uncomplicated". Good for the people who want that. I'm poor - I've no desire to spend that sort of money.
I can deal with buttons thanks very much. Give me features if that means you can sell more of them - I can turn them off and I like many of them on anyway. Give me small. Give me cheap. Not $7k. I can get a 5D for about 1K USD now and that is about as barebones as a DSLR gets but it is big. Cram it into an E400 size thing and you are halfway there.
Cheers,
-G.
Pickett Wilson
09-10-2009, 05:07
A 5D is not a big camera. Not as small as an OM, of course, but fits my hand much better. I have to add a winder to the OM before I can handle it comfortably.
By Film SLR, you must be referring to the monster Nikon F5, not an OM-1 or a Nikon FM or a Pentax MX.
Most film SLR's made in the last 20 years.
My 350D is only a bit larger than my OM1. Put the MD1 on the OM1, and my 350D is _smaller_ and _lighter_.
BTW, I have an OM1 and Pentax MX and Nikon FG (same size as FM), and Canon 20D, 350D, 1D & 1Ds. Only the last two are monsters. My 20D which is larger than the 350D, is still smaller than _many_ of my film cameras, including some of the 70's full-size RF's.
gnarayan
09-10-2009, 05:14
A 5D is not a big camera. Not as small as an OM, of course, but fits my hand much better. I have to add a winder to the OM before I can handle it comfortably.
A 5D remains one of the largest DSLRs without an integrated vertical grip so I'm not sure what you are comparing it to when you describe it as not big.
You get a choice with the OM - you can remove the OM winder if you want it smaller. I have a winder 2 and don't use it because it just adds bulk for me. I can't make the 5D smaller than it is.
giellaleafapmu
09-10-2009, 05:48
By Film SLR, you must be referring to the monster Nikon F5, not an OM-1 or a Nikon FM or a Pentax MX.
Well, the D700 is larger but not dramatically so than a "standard" film camera.
D700 sizes: 147x123x77, weight almost 1 Kg,
F3 sizes: 148x101x69, weight 760g,
so the two have the same width, the D700 is 2cm taller and marginally thicker (but the real thickness is given by the lens). Not too bad I would say...
GLF
AJShepherd
09-10-2009, 05:54
Maybe now that Leica have shown that it is possible to make a full frame digital camera the same size (roughly) as a 35mm film camera, Olympus could continue their retro theme and produce the OM-D. Give it the same lens mount as the OM, and give it the same BIG VIEWFINDER, and they'd make a lot of people very happy.
snausages
09-10-2009, 06:06
I'm not sure what the aesthetic of it will be (probably more Canon Rebel than OM1) or the functionality (hard to imagine Canon or Nikon ditching AF), but I do think that digital photography is trending toward a FF camera in a compact 35mm SLR body, roughly the size of a 70's Olympus.
A $2500 FF camera the size of an OM1 would, I think, kill the M9. And I could see that happening within 2-3 years.
And I love motion video capture. Don't see why the option to make movies inhibits still photography. Just seems like a natural extension of the photographic/documentary experience.
wgerrard
09-10-2009, 06:14
We want the equvilant of a FF Digital Om-1 or Nikon FM with NO frills.
I'd love that, too But don't hold your breath. After all, no one had produce an analog SLR follow-up modeled on the OM line in 25 years, including Olympus.
The best thing the Micro 4/3 concept can do is sell enough cameras to convince the DSLR makers that some people really don't want to lug around cameras as big as double toasters.
As Roger suggested elsewhere, the full frame notion has relevance for folks with a batch of M-mount lenses they want to keep using. That's a lot of people within this small market. But, I'd be satisfied with a steady progression to bigger and better sensors. I don't expect to see one of those sensors in Keith's digital Son of OM DSLR. But, I would not be surprised to see significantly larger sensors housed in non-mirror bodies very similar to Micro 4/3 bodies. Of course, better EVF's would be nice, too.
Well, after years of waiting for them to get good/cheap enough, I finally got my first proper digital camera recently (the one I already had that was so poor I only used it for taking pictures of things to sell on eBay doesn't count). I got a 5DII. It's certainly good enough (though perhaps not cheap - but I'd had an unexpected windfall).
It's not small, certainly not compared to my OMs, but I'm very surprised how much easier it is to handle than I'd guessed by looking at it - even though I have small hands, it fits quite well.
And changing the important settings is quick and easy. ISO is changed on the top LCD - press a button (helpfully labeled "iso") and then change the setting using the finger wheel that's just behind the shutter release.
Changing speed or aperture is similarly easy, In Av or Tv mode, the same finger-wheel changes the aperture or the shutter speed respectively. And in manual metering mode, the finger wheel changes the aperture while the thumb-operated dial on the back changes the shutter speed - there are no two-finger contortions or menus needed.
And in auto exposure modes, the thumb-wheel on the back sets exposure compensation, which is visible on the top LCD and in the viewfinder - a feature I accidentally discovered only yesterday.
So really, there are no menus required for actual shooting, which I was very pleasantly surprised by.
Also, I got a cheap adapter from Hong Kong and I can fit all my old Zuiko lenses on it. Set in Av more, the meter even works fine - I just need to focus wide open and stop down to meter and shoot. (You can't use Tv or P modes, as those need to be able to set the aperture).
And, there are none of those daft exposure modes with pictures of athletes, mountains and flowers - it assumes you know how to get what you want from the traditional modes.
OK, I'd love a small metal digital SLR with all the controls in the traditional places - in fact, an OM4 with a digital sensor and an LCD on the back to be able to view histograms (which really provide a great tool for judging exposure) would be close to heaven. But this big black magnesium alloy and plastic beast really is quite nice :)
Yes, but for many, it not the dimensions. It's the weight. 1 kg before putting on one of those big, hairy zooms, to say nothing of the weight of kit in the bag is the concern.
A heavy bag is what got me knee surgery, and converted me to rangefinders: unfortunate misunderstanding with the rocks on the coast of Maine with a Mamiya 645 and 3 lenses in the bag!
abo_1970
09-10-2009, 08:33
I care less about the weight than about the size. So if dreams could come true I would go for a digital Pentax LX and Yashica GSN...:D
shadowfox
09-10-2009, 10:43
...
I also don't want a sh!tty litle micro 4/3 with a crop factor of two or so that produces images that can't really seem to decide whether they are square, landscape, or somewhere in between.
:)
Keith, calm down.
Dave Wilkinson
09-10-2009, 10:49
I've just been looking at some prints made in 2004, with my first digital camera - an Olympus C8080. A 8mp fixed lens 'bridge' camera, with solid, heavy magnesium body, and reasonably good EVF, it felt more like cameras used to, and would record in two or three JPEG modes, TIFF and RAW, which is more than todays offerings!.
It cost a lot more than the present crop of compact and bridge cameras, but DSLR prices had not dropped to todays level, and more to the point, it gave damn good results. I'm now kicking myself for parting!:bang:.......wonder if anyone still uses one?.
Dave.
Prosaic™
09-10-2009, 10:56
I also don't want a sh!tty litle micro 4/3 with a crop factor of two or so that produces images that can't really seem to decide whether they are square, landscape, or somewhere in between.
Right on! :D
Yes, but for many, it not the dimensions. It's the weight
My 5DII with a prime (the only prime I currently have is the 50/1.4 - apart from my Zuiko lenses, with adapter) really isn't too heavy at all - I can sling it over my shoulder almost as conveniently as my OM SLRs or my Leica Ms.
Sure, with big zooms on the things get heavy, but that's not a factor of the camera itself - if you don't want the weight of a big zoom, don't use a big zoom.
Cheers,
...
I did finally manage to get my Hasselblad system together and I'm ready to take photos ... that thing makes some sound when you press the shutter! :eek: :D
Keith,
Glad to hear your Hasselblad kit has all come together. Have you found the mirror lock up switch? It's the small black bit below the film wind knob on the camera body. Move it up and the mirror slams in the up position. Then trip the shutter. Did you hear it? Did you feel it? Nice, hey? :)
Good luck!
Keith,
Glad to hear your Hasselblad kit has all come together. Have you found the mirror lock up switch? It's the small black bit below the film wind knob on the camera body. Move it up and the mirror slams in the up position. Then trip the shutter. Did you hear it? Did you feel it? Nice, hey? :)
Good luck!
About that mirror lock up ... I really like the way that when you hold the camera in your left hand with your index finger over the shutter release as Hasselblad recommend, your middle finger is poised over the mirror lock up button. I would imagine that with a little practice locking up the mirror manually just before you fire the shutter is not so hard. Very clever ergonomics IMO! :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
...
I also don't want a sh!tty litle micro 4/3 with a crop factor of two or so that produces images that can't really seem to decide whether they are square, landscape, or somewhere in between.
Keith, calm down.
Sorry Wil ... obviously you have one of those funny cameras ... I never realised sorry ... I picked you to be more sensible! :D
shadowfox
09-11-2009, 07:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
...
I also don't want a sh!tty litle micro 4/3 with a crop factor of two or so that produces images that can't really seem to decide whether they are square, landscape, or somewhere in between.
Sorry Wil ... obviously you have one of those funny cameras ... I never realised sorry ... I picked you to be more sensible! :D
No problem, I don't have those new "funny" cameras, I have a really good DSLR called E-620. And it stands up pretty darn well next to it's old uncle:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3662/3514038996_f185a0a3ec.jpg
:cool:
Dave Wilkinson
09-11-2009, 07:42
No problem, I don't have those new "funny" cameras, I have a really good DSLR called E-620. And it stands up pretty darn well next to it's old uncle:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3662/3514038996_f185a0a3ec.jpg
:cool:....for IQ -it will probably kick it's old uncle's ass!:D
amateriat
09-11-2009, 08:12
I've just been looking at some prints made in 2004, with my first digital camera - an Olympus C8080. A 8mp fixed lens 'bridge' camera, with solid, heavy magnesium body, and reasonably good EVF, it felt more like cameras used to, and would record in two or three JPEG modes, TIFF and RAW, which is more than todays offerings!.
It cost a lot more than the present crop of compact and bridge cameras, but DSLR prices had not dropped to todays level, and more to the point, it gave damn good results. I'm now kicking myself for parting!:bang:.......wonder if anyone still uses one?.
Dave.
That's my current "main" digicam, Dave. Other than a slow-ish buffer, it holds its own rather well, and I like how it handles. I even shot a few recent gigs with it.
http://mysite.verizon.net/bwbenton/Olympus/C-8080/C8080-3.jpg
- Barrett
Dave Wilkinson
09-11-2009, 08:21
That's my current "main" digicam, Dave. Other than a slow-ish buffer, it holds its own rather well, and I like how it handles. I even shot a few recent gigs with it.
http://mysite.verizon.net/bwbenton/Olympus/C-8080/C8080-3.jpg
- Barrett Damn it!...Barrett, that's made me feel worse still!....off to look at Ebay now!:mad:
Dave.
I've been whining for a FF DSLR the size of my OM for a while. 4/3, micro 4/3 ...thanks, but no thanks. Size matters as far as I'm concerned and 4/3 just doesn't quite cut it for me. And even the 4/3 dslrs are larger than then the OM...
BillBingham2
09-11-2009, 08:38
I think what Keith is saying is give us a minimalist option. No LCD on the back. A dial for ISO setting and a small LCD (without back lighting) to display for number of pictures left on the card. Perhaps a warning of low battery would be nice. No other circuitry, keep it simple and small. No jpg conversions, no displays of images. It should add the amount of size a RapidWinder II does to an M or perhaps an old Winder 2 did to an OM. Run off something simple, small and available, say a DB60 battery.
Replace the back and screw into the tripod socket. This design would work for Nikon F, F2, OMs, I think some Canons and many others. Talk about killing a segment of the DSLRs out there. It’s a green product as it reuses existing cameras and lenses.
What Kodak did early on was like this but much bigger. More recent was small but added way too much circuitry and an LCD with ballooned the size. Look at what they put into a GRD or X1, take out the parts we do not want and it just gets smaller.
I really wish I had some seed money. I bet it could come to market for OMs and Nikons in just under a year with the right funding.
Keith, is this what you’re looking for?
B2 (;->
Dave Wilkinson
09-11-2009, 08:48
I think what Keith is saying is give us a minimalist option. No LCD on the back. A dial for ISO setting and a small LCD (without back lighting) to display for number of pictures left on the card. Perhaps a warning of low battery would be nice. No other circuitry, keep it simple and small. No jpg conversions, no displays of images. It should add the amount of size a RapidWinder II does to an M or perhaps an old Winder 2 did to an OM. Run off something simple, small and available, say a DB60 battery.
Replace the back and screw into the tripod socket. This design would work for Nikon F, F2, OMs, I think some Canons and many others. Talk about killing a segment of the DSLRs out there. It’s a green product as it reuses existing cameras and lenses.
What Kodak did early on was like this but much bigger. More recent was small but added way too much circuitry and an LCD with ballooned the size. Look at what they put into a GRD or X1, take out the parts we do not want and it just gets smaller.
I really wish I had some seed money. I bet it could come to market for OMs and Nikons in just under a year with the right funding.
Keith, is this what you’re looking for?
B2 (;-> It is me! - but I don't think those corporate bigwigs want us still usng those old metal contraptions!
Dave.
Benjamin
09-11-2009, 08:55
It's been a boring day ... just finished an eight day stint in the city yesterday but no work today! :o
What do you do, if you don't mind my asking, Keith?
reala_fan
09-11-2009, 08:59
That's my current "main" digicam, Dave. Other than a slow-ish buffer, it holds its own rather well, and I like how it handles. I even shot a few recent gigs with it.
- Barrett
Yes!! The Olympus C-8080 is a heck of a camera.
You cannot beat the handling and "feel" of the camera. It's IQ is really gorgous as well.
I still use mine on a regular basis.
The JPG engine and Auto White Balance is superb on the 8080 as well.
I have long said "if it had a manual zoom ring and a logical manual focus system", that it would have been "perfect".
I was really hoping Olympus would have made a C-9090 based on the same great body/build and given us the larger buffer, manual zoom and focus rings, a 1 meg pixel EVF, and faster AF.
......To get a full frame DSLR I have to buy a monstrocity of a camera that looks more like a cut down PC that's been painted black! I want something about the size of an OM-1 or Nikon F with manual focus and I don't give a damn if it can't shoot eight frames per second......
:)
It seems the time has come for someone [perhaps myself] to make a retrofit kit for any 35mm cameras.
A simple kit comprise of:
A CCD/circuitry package that fit within the space occupied by the pressure plate;
A battery that fit within the film cartridge chamber;
A SD or mini- or micro-SD chamber that clips onto the take-up spool.No LCD [set up the camera via an iPod, iPhone or PC], no new motor...use your thumb. Shoot only RAW at maximum resolution, no JPEG no reduced image size...no nothing. SD cards are cheap.
No automatic anything, no idiotic million scene modes, no histogram and no chimping. When in doubt, bracket...film/processing is free.
The reality is: most CCD is rated at ~ISO 100, but with ~4 stops latitude on the under-exposure side...hence claims of ISO 1600 and beyond [with electronic boosting, thus noise]. Is that not enough? Which one of you had push processed film beyond ISO 1600?
Film/processing/scanning in my locale cost ~$1 or more per shot. Would you not prepaid years of supply/services for $500 by buying such a kit?
BillBingham2
09-11-2009, 09:14
We need an on/off switch. Shoot and store to the card at 2 frames per second. Perhaps a small red LED when the unit is busy storing the data to the card.
B2 (;->
BillBingham2
09-11-2009, 09:23
I would hope in mass the price point would be around the $500 but think we might be around $800 for a FF chip. I'd be OK with that for a street price.
From a design perspective you never want to take the back off (cleaner sensor) so I think the small add on to the bottom for battery and SD card would be better.
Wonder if anyone at State Street is listening?
B2 (;->
gnarayan
09-11-2009, 09:30
It seems the time has come for someone [perhaps myself] to make a retrofit kit for any 35mm cameras.
A simple kit comprise of:
A CCD/circuitry package that fit within the space occupied by the pressure plate;
A battery that fit within the film cartridge chamber;
A SD or mini- or micro-SD chamber that clips onto the take-up spool.No LCD [set up the camera via an iPod, iPhone or PC], no new motor...use your thumb. Shoot only RAW at maximum resolution, no JPEG no reduced image size...no nothing. SD cards are cheap. No automatic anything, no idiotic million scene modes, no histogram and no chimping.
This is the perfect project for the Dream Pink Perfume Farting Flying Pony engineering company!
These guys tried it - turned out they made a very mini pixely pony with a tendency to look a bit green. It was put out to pasture along with the company, because it never quite worked as nicely as the regular digital ponies.
http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/008/008cxN-18481484.jpg
These guys tried it too - it ended up looking like a bloated pony hippo. Not many liked the bloated pony hippo, and the entire line of ponies was retired.
http://www.outbackphoto.com/reviews/equipment/leica_dmr/images/500_350d_0000_1603_dmr.jpg
BillBingham2
09-11-2009, 09:51
They tried for too much too early in the technology maturity cycle.
KISS, few buttons, two controls (on/off and ISO) and not much else. They were fighting the DSLR market.
We will open up a new market segment.
B2 (;->
wgerrard
09-11-2009, 10:08
I suspect it could be done, given sufficient resources. But, who's gonna write or buy the software? Which old RF's/SLR's do you design and build for? Could you realistically build back plates, etc., to fit old Leicas, Canon, Nikons, Minoltas, etc?
Another approach: An electronic film "emulsion", rather than a chemical emulsion, that generates a digital image when it is "developed". Digital components can be made in amazingly tiny constructs, and folks like Intel are already looking at DNA-based and biology-based chips. I know it sounds far fetched, but I believe someone a few years ago produced a flexible piece of electronic "paper' capable of displaying text and images at 300 dpi.
Still, it's the money thing that would make or break such a thing. Break it, most likely.
BillBingham2
09-11-2009, 12:32
A key design point is to put the logic and stuff in the Rapidwinder sized box and nothing but the sensor in the camera back. You attach the bottom first to the camera and then the back goes on and plugs into the bottom. The electrical magic all happens in the bottom and the camera backs just hold the sensor and the connector to the electronics. All the bottoms are the same, the backs are then made to fit OM, F2, F3, etc. Nikon F and S2/3/P (rangefinder users) have a different approach as they have a unique bottom (have to scavenge parts from dead Fs) but the same basic idea could work for M backs as well.
B2 (;->
Michael Da Re
09-11-2009, 13:02
I kinda like my crop sensor DSLR, as it extends my tele lenses
Mabelsound, This is kind of misleading. It doesn't really extend your lens. For instants when I use my OM 50mm lens on my E-500 it's still only a 50mm focal length but the 2x crop factor let's you see what you would see if you used a 100mm lens on your film camera, but it doesn't bring the subject any closer to you if I'm explaining that right.
Michael
My bet is on the next iteration of the Canon Rebel being FF. Of course, the T1i just came out so the next iteration will still be a couple years off.
the rebel series refreshes roughly every 18 months.. and i can pretty much guarantee you that it will never become FF. canon has shown their commitment to the EF-S mount once again with the 7D, and they won't render all of their EF-S lenses useless just because people want FF cameras. rebels are made to be affordable, and FF sensors are not cheap.
wgerrard
09-11-2009, 13:33
In fact, I suspect the Rebel will not go FF even when or if FF sensors become cheap. Canon needs a reason for people to buy their top of the line models.
What do you do, if you don't mind my asking, Keith?
I'm what's known as an 'art slave!' I work part time for a sculptor who does a fair few public art projects in public parks, developments etc. We just spent eight very hard days installing his latest creation in a small inner city park. It comprised twenty steel poles set in the ground and painted red and spread throughout the area! link (http://site-unseen.net.au/blog/adrian-davis/reds-sticks)
I help him with fabrication in his studio and also the final instals ... it's part time and often involves me doing a lot of menial donkey work but I love it! :D
Benjamin
09-11-2009, 15:27
...it's part time and often involves me doing a lot of menial donkey work but I love it! :D
Well if you do what you love.. :rolleyes:
My FM3a has the same robust appeal of the D700 but weights almost half... and it's remarkably smaller. I guess it has more or less the same size of the new M9 so it means that something within that specs can be done. Ok, having the mirror THAT's the real problem but even fitting that you can't add 0,5 kg !!!
They tried for too much too early in the technology maturity cycle.
KISS, few buttons, two controls (on/off and ISO) and not much else. They were fighting the DSLR market.
We will open up a new market segment.
B2 (;->
I am aware of SiliconFilm and agreed they started too early.
The fact that Leica failed in the R-back proves nothing.
KISS is my mantra and I had no intention of making the back interchangeable with the film back.
I had long been thinking of doing one of my Nikon F, F2 or FM first...all with removable back and easy to pop out pressure plate, and convenient for cutting an opening...if necessary.
The Leica M's are also doable, the hinged back removed is all the space needed...imagine just re-attaching with the CCD-package.
The retrofit kit is universal in that:
CCD-package must fit the 24x36mm frame size.
The battery must not be bigger than a 135 cartridge.
The mini-, micro- or standard SD holder sizes are long fixed...and easily fitted within the take-up spool space [I tried].
Circuit boards with flexible cabling are...flexible [at worst, contained in a small base mounted box no bigger than the TomA's RapidWinder...via the tripod screw].Kodak sells CCD to anyone, so does Dalsa. CCD larger than 24x36mm are available. So what if a few rows of pixels are wasted.
I am not new in the retrofitting business. Just ask Wild-Heerbrugg (now also called Leica) how much revenue was lost because their stereo plotters each costing the price of a good house in their respective era were retrofitted; which also retarded the sales of their new (1980's) $32 million investment computer controlled analytical stereo plotter each costing $250k++.
I was there.
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