View Full Version : Heliar resolution compared to...
Jamie123
09-02-2009, 15:11
...a (Hasselblad) Zeiss 80mm CF?
I've been going back and forth between keeping my Hasselblad kit and selling it in order to finance a Bessa III. Just when I decided to keep the Hasselblad for now I get an e-mail from someone who's interested in buying it.
If I were to keep the Hassy I'd have to shell out some money to buy a 60mm (right now I only have my 150mm left) which means that either way I'm spending money. I really would like the Bessa for its portability as the Hassy is a hassle to to carry around, especially when I go on a trip.
Now my question is this. How does the Heliar lens compare to the 80mm Hasselblad lens? I put a test roll through a Bessa III at a local store and while the scans on my Nikon 9000 show the lens to be very sharp, I also have the impression that there's a point where there's no more detail when the Hassy might have done better. Hope this makes sense?
Anyways, resolution is not everything and it's not a deal breaker but I'd still like to know before I sell off all the Hassy stuff :)
I dont have a Hasselblad kit anymore - but lots of negs from when I used too. I took some of them out and checked them against the Bessa III negs. I found the Heliar better than my 80 Planar's and up there with the 100f3.5. Dont know if it has more resolution - but it can certainly hold its own - and, a major factor, it is portable.
As with any fixed lens camera (Rollei, Plaubel etc) you are limited to what and how you shoot - but it also forces you to "look" differently.
One major factor here - the Bessa is eerily quiet - unless you check the meterdisplay you are not really sure it fired (it always has so far). The Hasselblad certainly isen't discreet (exception being the SWC). The meter in the Bessa III is also very good - only fouled up exposures I have had, has been when I tried to outsmart it!
If I was shooting commercial stuff - I think the Bessa could be a bit limiting with the lack of wide-angle capability - but for what I am using it for - my own pleasure - it works extremely well. I am switching between 6x6 and 6x7 at the moment - fully well knowing that I will swear when i try to file the 6x7 negs - but they do look gorgeous on a light table.
Jamie123
09-03-2009, 00:33
Yes, I have tried out the Bessa III and the silent shutter really surprised me. While I do realize that a fixed lens folder has some limitations compared to the Hasselblad I also find those limitations somewhat liberating (not having to carry around a bunch of lenses and backs). Besides, the possibility of shooting 6x6 and 6x7 in 120 and 220 film all combined in such a portable size is a huge plus for me.
I've found the Bessa III to be a wonderful portable MF camera, though like Tom said, filing the 6x7 are a pain because you can't fit the negs in one negative sheet. Another fairly portable system to consider is the the Mamiya 6. If you don't mind only 6x6 it has great optics (the 50mm is fantastic), AE metering and the lenses collapse into the body for a more compact package.
I found the Heliar better than my 80 Planar's and up there with the 100f3.5.
No wonder, as it is essentially the same thing. That lens, called "Heliar" for marketing reasons, is no Heliar but a Planar type.
Jamie123
09-03-2009, 07:36
I've found the Bessa III to be a wonderful portable MF camera, though like Tom said, filing the 6x7 are a pain because you can't fit the negs in one negative sheet. Another fairly portable system to consider is the the Mamiya 6. If you don't mind only 6x6 it has great optics (the 50mm is fantastic), AE metering and the lenses collapse into the body for a more compact package.
I actually want the Bessa for the 6x7, not 6x6. I like the square but don't love it, otherwise I would probably keep the Hasselblad.
I know what you might say, I could also look into getting a Mamiya 7, which I did. For my taste, however, the Mamiya 7 lenses are almost too sharp and they render colors slightly differently (a bit colder) especially for my favourite film, Portra 400NC. Also it's a bit bulkier and not that much cheaper.
The neg filing for 6x7 is not a big concern for me as I use a wonderful lab which returns the negs in filing sheets already. No extra money spent for me :)
I just spent eight hours walking around Kyoto with my bessa III and I'm so glad i got rid of my blad.
This is my first overseas trip with the camera and it's just so cool to have a medium format camera of that quality in the bag.
I had the gh1 with the 17mm pancake lens in the bag as well and between the two - well my back thanked me and I didn't have to compromise.
Too often towards the end I would leave the hassy at home. I just could not be bothered - the bessa - I can take anywhere.
I find "resolution' a hard thing to measure -but I compare them side by side and I have to say - I prefer the character of the Bessa.
I was really worried by the step from 2.8 to 3.5
I should not have worried - the AWESOME shutter mechanism in the BESSA means that you can handhold at shutter speeds far lower than the BLAD.
At the end of the day, i'm about taking photos and the Bessa means tht I'm shooting more MF than ever and that is a good thing
Oh and something I really appreciated today - Loading film on the bessa is a joy (something I did a great deal today!)
In fact I love it so much I bought the Fuji version here yesterday
so I have a spare!
Ed
Ernst Dinkla
09-05-2009, 03:22
No wonder, as it is essentially the same thing. That lens, called "Heliar" for marketing reasons, is no Heliar but a Planar type.
The best guess I have seen was Plasmat type. The publications mentioned 6 elements - 4 groups. Fuji already had several Plasmat MF lens designs in the past so that guess isn't so wild. Excellent lenses.
met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
Jamie123
09-05-2009, 08:17
I just spent eight hours walking around Kyoto with my bessa III and I'm so glad i got rid of my blad.
This is my first overseas trip with the camera and it's just so cool to have a medium format camera of that quality in the bag.
I had the gh1 with the 17mm pancake lens in the bag as well and between the two - well my back thanked me and I didn't have to compromise.
Too often towards the end I would leave the hassy at home. I just could not be bothered - the bessa - I can take anywhere.
I find "resolution' a hard thing to measure -but I compare them side by side and I have to say - I prefer the character of the Bessa.
I was really worried by the step from 2.8 to 3.5
I should not have worried - the AWESOME shutter mechanism in the BESSA means that you can handhold at shutter speeds far lower than the BLAD.
At the end of the day, i'm about taking photos and the Bessa means tht I'm shooting more MF than ever and that is a good thing
Oh and something I really appreciated today - Loading film on the bessa is a joy (something I did a great deal today!)
In fact I love it so much I bought the Fuji version here yesterday
so I have a spare!
Ed
Great to hear your experiences as the things you mention are exactly the reasons why I'm switching from the Hasselblad to the Bessa. Just like you I was/am leaving the Hasselblad at home more and more often and would never take it on a trip.
I reckon I'll not only take the Bessa III with me more often, I will also use it in situations where I would never take a Hasselblad.
The shutter is really extraordinary. I shot a roll through the camera at the store and the way I see it I can realistically see myself going down to 1/8th handheld with this camera. With the Hasselblad 1/30th is already pushing it.
As a side question, did the Bessa come with a leather case? I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere on the internet. The Voigtländer page implys that it's not included but I couldn't find information on pricing or availability anywhere.
I find this interesting claim that Heliar is better than Hassy's Planar. I have never used this new Bessa 667, but from a few pics I have seen, they dont seem to have that "WOW" effect I see from planar time and time again. I looked at flickr's Bessa 667 pool and pics there dont show anything special. So, maybe some lucky people that own Bessa 667 could post some pics to show why/how Heliar betters Planar. However I do agree that having a folder is far more convinient than a Hassy when traveling/walking around I am a big fan of folders too and had high hopes for this camera, but there doesnt seem to be many pics from it on the net. BTW, does Bessa work without batteries? So, please post pics from your Bessa.
Steve M.
09-05-2009, 10:24
It's more about how the lens images than resolution. I would think your Hassy would do better. Why not spend a LOT less money and get a Bessa II? I've looked at the photos from the new camera, and compared to my old one it's really no contest. The new camera is sharp, but boring. The old Heliar has an honest to goodness 3-D effect and just generally images better. It's not that it images better than the new camera, it's that it images better than any lens I've ever seen.
You'll have to hand meter and live w/ the 6x9 ratio (or just crop to whatever you want), but seriously, the new one isn't as good as the old one. No surprise really. The build quality of the Bessa II is in a class of it's own as well. Out of all the cameras I own that have good glass, which includes a Rolleiflex Xenotar, a Leiica 50 Summicron, and Isolette Solinar, the 105 Heliar is the best.
I've posted this one before, but the portrait of my camera-collecting friend Donald is a good example. It was shot pretty close to wide open. If you go to flickr and browse photos of Steve M.1, or just look at Bessa II shots, you'll see some others I've posted from the 105 Heliar.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2533/3818006835_8e61c21a09_o.jpg
Wow, I do like old Heliar of your Bessa II better than ones from 667! Very nice how lens draws!
Jamie123
09-05-2009, 10:47
I don't think you really can compare the Bessa II with the Bessa III. The III is modern camera with AE, an incredibly bright viewfinder, a real film counter and you can switch between 6x6 and 6x7.
The Bessa II looks like a neat little camera but I've seen it go for around $1000 which IMO is just insane. As good as the lens may be I wouldn't pay more than $50 for an old folder. It might be a lot cheaper than the III but still 20x more than I'd want to pay.
I really have no nostalgia when it comes to cameras and I prefer modern equipment. For me it's not a choice between the Bessa II and the III but rather one between the Mamiya 7II and the Bessa III. The Mamiya lenses are too sharp and cold for my taste while the Bessa III is a more similar to the Hasselblad lenses. If the Mamiya 7II + 80mm lens were half the price of the Bessa I'd probably go for it but as I see it the difference is about $600 and the advantage with the Bessa is that I won't be tempted to expand the system :)
I do like how my old Agfa Isolette folder's Solinar lens draws. There's a richness about the image that I like and the OOF areas are very nice. The Isolette still is one of my favorite folders to shoot with.
Just came back from three hours of wandering around at the local Concour D'Elegance in Gastown here in Vancouver. It is an annual event - lots of nice cars (67 Muira, V12 Lagonda and a very understated Mercury Turnpike Cruiser in black/pink and gold - about 20 feet long!). Took the Bessa III and a M2 with a Planar 50f2 and a pocket full of TriX (120/35). Lightweight kit and as the weather was grey and gloomy - the Bessa was mostly @ f3.5-4 and 1/30 to 1/60. Shot 3 rolls with that and 3 rolls with the M2. Will see if I can soup them today. The rangefinder in the Bessa is outstanding and the fact that you can trigger it with virtually no shake made it possible to shoot at 1/15 occasionally for some extended DOF shots (Packard Hood ornament - the famous dougnut pusher).
Here's a few cars being unloaded for the Monterey/Carmel Concour D'Elegance using the Bessa III.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/1141/U1141I1252187911.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/1141/U1141I1251264069.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/1141/U1141I1252187317.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/1141/U1141I1251394650.SEQ.0.jpg
There is something about vintage cars and Bessa III's obviously. The details and tones from a larger negative size - and the fact that the owners are quite taken by the "old" folder (except the ones who ask "Is it Digital?").
ChrisLivsey
09-06-2009, 01:03
Here's a few cars being unloaded for the Monterey/Carmel Concour D'Elegance using the Bessa III.
Can I ask, and I'm sorry I don't know the model, in the last B/W shot what is the T shaped "device" on the RHS.
Apologies for off topic but curiosity overcomes me.
web sized imaged will tell you little to nothing about resolution, so there is no point looking at Flikr....
While it is possible that the new Bessa III Heliar is sharper than the Hassy planar, this would be a surprise as the Hassy lens is held perfectly in alignment, whereas the Bessa will have more of a tolerance involved (it may therefore be that there is some variance between specific examples). This can make a huge difference to real on film resolution. ...ask Roger Hick's about his Alpas and the same lenses on 5x4 folders and how much better they resolve on the Alpas
In my use of 5x4, 5x7 and 10x8 I am confident that it is very, very hard to get the best out of shorter FLs on folding cameras as alignment is hard to get perfect to the miniscule tolerances required for optimal resolution. Mike Walker of Walker cameras will tell you the same thing. so will ebony, hence the limited movement on some of their models and shorter belloes to prevent bellows compression distorting the parallels (easing movement too).
I am sure the Bessa 3 is well made, but is is about convenience, not raw cutting edge performance. In the new camera, tolerances may be very good (though I would still wonder if the lens is aplced as accurately each time in relation to the film as it is with a rigid camera. once it wears things become less certain.
Look at the tests on the Plaubel by Perez (on Hevanet) and co. It does OK, but not great, with the likely explanation not being the Nikkor lens, but placement and wear/tear. The folders are convenient and we should not be too concerned about outright resolutin. If you are, get a Mamiya 7. I have one, but find how I use it somewhat more important. Still, not a camera for taking portraits of your mother...
Jamie123
09-06-2009, 04:13
Do you mean alignment of the lens elements or alignment with the film plane?
I actually saw a discussion a while ago about the Bessa's front element not being parallel to the film plane in the product shots on the Voigtländer page (http://tinyurl.com/kmv3xr). Can anyone who has the camera comment on whether this is the case on the actual camera?
Larry Manuel
09-06-2009, 11:28
While I think the Bessa III is a very, very nice camera, and would love to try one, I ask the following rhetorical question: If there had been Bessa IIIs around for the past 40 years, in the tens of thousands, and all of a sudden the mechanical Hasselblad came out, wouldn't we be reading of people falling over themselves to dump the now obviously inferior <sic> Bessa III and buy one or more [for spares] Hasselblads?
Abstracting this, there is a hypothesis that the order of inventions determines their [current] popularity. Apologies, I cannot provide references to this.
Jamie123
09-06-2009, 13:15
While I think the Bessa III is a very, very nice camera, and would love to try one, I ask the following rhetorical question: If there had been Bessa IIIs around for the past 40 years, in the tens of thousands, and all of a sudden the mechanical Hasselblad came out, wouldn't we be reading of people falling over themselves to dump the now obviously inferior <sic> Bessa III and buy one or more [for spares] Hasselblads?
Abstracting this, there is a hypothesis that the order of inventions determines their [current] popularity. Apologies, I cannot provide references to this.
I don't think this is the case here at all. While many people would probably agree that the Bessa III is a very nice camera, much less people actually think it's worth its price and very few people would replace their whole Hasselblad system with it (like I am doing). Besides, the Bessa III is not really a novelty.
I would actually still say that the Hasselblad *as a system* is superior to the Bessa. However, the best camera in the world is useless if it stays at home.
The Hasselblad for me is a bit like having a kid around. It needs constant attention, is loud, not always appropriate to take with and gets on my nerves when I'm on vacation with my girlfriend.
(I'm kidding, obviously, and I don't have a kid so please don't call child services :D )
Don Hutton
09-06-2009, 17:49
web sized imaged will tell you little to nothing about resolution, so there is no point looking at Flikr....
While it is possible that the new Bessa III Heliar is sharper than the Hassy planar, this would be a surprise as the Hassy lens is held perfectly in alignment, whereas the Bessa will have more of a tolerance involved (it may therefore be that there is some variance between specific examples). This can make a huge difference to real on film resolution. ...ask Roger Hick's about his Alpas and the same lenses on 5x4 folders and how much better they resolve on the Alpas
In my use of 5x4, 5x7 and 10x8 I am confident that it is very, very hard to get the best out of shorter FLs on folding cameras as alignment is hard to get perfect to the miniscule tolerances required for optimal resolution. Mike Walker of Walker cameras will tell you the same thing. so will ebony, hence the limited movement on some of their models and shorter belloes to prevent bellows compression distorting the parallels (easing movement too).
I am sure the Bessa 3 is well made, but is is about convenience, not raw cutting edge performance. In the new camera, tolerances may be very good (though I would still wonder if the lens is aplced as accurately each time in relation to the film as it is with a rigid camera. once it wears things become less certain.
Look at the tests on the Plaubel by Perez (on Hevanet) and co. It does OK, but not great, with the likely explanation not being the Nikkor lens, but placement and wear/tear. The folders are convenient and we should not be too concerned about outright resolutin. If you are, get a Mamiya 7. I have one, but find how I use it somewhat more important. Still, not a camera for taking portraits of your mother...
Well, get surprised - my Fuji GF670 tests even better than the 80mm lens on my Mamiya 7 - and any other MF optics I have ever tested. First tests revealed about 92 lp/mm on center (using high resolution film - I frankly have never been able to get numbers as high as others claim on Tmax100). It's an amazing optic on a great camera, but if folks do their shopping by judging Flikr photos, surely they'd be better off with an iPhone anyway?...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/3893713365_026833eaf5.jpg
Bessa III with HP5 )old film stock) developed in Rodinal 1:50/13 min. Focus is on the MG logo on the radiator. Probably at f5.6 and 1/30.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3451/3894499792_a1a938c029.jpg
Bessa III @ f3.5 - focus is on the Packard radiator figure. Some designer probably had some lofty ideas about it - but it got quickly renamed "The Donut Pusher".
It was a gloomy day so speed was probably around 1/60. I was letting the camera do the decision with the AE system. Old stock Tri X, rated 320 and developed in Rodinal 1:50/13 min.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3477/3893713801_747c403322.jpg
HRD Vincent V twin. The Bessa III at f4 - focus on the HRD symbol on the crank case. Old HP5, Rodinal 1:50 for 13 min. Again - the camera handled the exposure through the AE system.
Well, get surprised - my Fuji GF670 tests even better than the 80mm lens on my Mamiya 7 - and any other MF optics I have ever tested. First tests revealed about 92 lp/mm on center (using high resolution film - I frankly have never been able to get numbers as high as others claim on Tmax100). It's an amazing optic on a great camera, but if folks do their shopping by judging Flikr photos, surely they'd be better off with an iPhone anyway?...
And what does GF 670 have to do with a folder Bessa 667? And while flickr photos may not show resolution of any given lens - they show other things, like character and bokeh. I find that very helpful as to me those things are more important than resolution - I dont shoot charts. ;)
Oh and BTW - Tom A - nice photos - finally I see some good stuff from Bessa III! Thanks.
Don Hutton
09-06-2009, 19:40
And what does GF 670 have to do with a folder Bessa 667? And while flickr photos may not show resolution of any given lens - they show other things, like character and bokeh. I find that very helpful as to me those things are more important than resolution - I dont shoot charts. ;)
Quite as lot actually - it's an identical camera, simply rebadged for the Japanese market - sorry I didn't mention that; I thought most people posting in this thread knew.... My comments regarding resolution comparisons were in response to a direct question about it in an earlier thread which I quoted - it had nothing to do with bokeh and other lens charateristics, just resolution which is why I mentioned it. Believe it or not, I do realize that there are a host of other issues which affect the final image, but I mentioned the numbers in a test as very few folks here who post a lot about the camera (like how it's too expensive, poorly made and could never equal a Mamiya 7 for resolution) actually have ever used one or tested one. I'm fortunate to have done both and shared my opinion to dispell some of the nonsense which seems to sprout forth about this camera all the time from people with simply zero knowledge or experience.
The new camera is sharp, but boring.
reading between the lines, it sounds like what i'm looking for.
wasn't someone doing a gf670 vs. mamiya 7 test?
I find the Bessa III quite remarkable. The AE system is about as good as it gets and the lens is sharp, very sharp and with nice smooth rendition.
I used to work with Hasselblads for years - had it all and now has the back to prove it! The Bessa has re-ignited my interest in medium format and by not having options in regards to the lens - I am better off.
So far I havent found anything to complain about - it is a superb piece of workmanship - and those who "complain" about quality obviously has not used or even held one!
Each time I use it I am amazed how comfortable it is to hold and focus and then to top it off - how quiet it is. Of course after a decade of using only 35mm - looking at a 6x6 or 6x7 negative is something else.
Interesting reaction from subjects too "Oh, is that from the 50's" to "Is it digital?".
Don,
Just to clarify, I said that folders can have lens placement issues due to wear, damage, or tolerance issues that can affect resolution. This issue tends not to be present with fixed body cameras, and so while folders can of course provide exceptional performance, there is more potential for them not doing so. This is well documented and well understood, but of course does not mean that an individual folder, or many for that matter, will not perform exceptionally well.
Your single example vs your single Mamiya 7 is just one sample from many. We will have to see what the broader consensus and tests results are to have an idea what the average Bessa3 delivers. Maybe it will be spectacular now. Maybe spectacular after 20 years or maybe not. We don't know, although I am sure during design they were subjected to various ordeals. What is well known is that the tolerances required to milk the very highest resolution out of lenses, esp at wider apertures on shorter lenses, tend to be extremely small. Lens placement is only one factor of course and film placement another.
As for saying that the Mamiya 7 is the highest resolving outfit out there bar none, that was not my intention. Perhaps I should have said that it is broadly recognised, on average, as being the industry leader for a set of MF optics in terms of raw resolving power. I have used a lot of lenses and have personally found nothing to outperform them (not even 35mm primes), but thats just my experience. Yours may be different.
FWIW, Perez (http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html) out the Mamiya 7 80mm at 120 on centre and the 50 at 107, which was comfortably (but not necessarily real world meaningfully) higher than anything else. The Mamiya 6's 75 came in at 95. Now he did not have a Bessa 3 of course as this was 2004; however, I would be surprised if the Bessa 3 were to outperform these figures (I am not saying they cannot) due to the moving components that mechanically locate and are subject therefore to tolerances. Possible, sure, but it would seem less likely with all things being equal if the Mamiya 7 lenses were performing up to spec.
My original point was to suggest that ditching a Hassy for a Bessa 3 on the basis of optical performance would be rather silly, largely bec they are very different cameras and because performance variances at this level are immaterial. I bought the Mamiya 7 for its large neg and RF and would have still bought it had the optics performed slightly less well.
FWIW the Bessa 3 did appeal to me apart from its FL. Were it a 65mm, the FL I use most on the Mamiya 7, I would have considered it. The folding aspect did not put me off as I am not concerned about whether I get 80lpmm or 120 from a 6x7 neg. It just does not matter.
Can I ask, and I'm sorry I don't know the model, in the last B/W shot what is the T shaped "device" on the RHS.
Apologies for off topic but curiosity overcomes me.
Chris, the T-shaped device is a license plate holder.
The Bessa III has a very sturdy folding mechanism, but it would obviously not be as strong as a "fixed" lens mount. There is an inter-lock on the III that prevents you from firing it if the bellow/lens is not locked in straight.
I had the Mamiya 6 but managed to slam the lens against a car-door and busted the "telescoping" lens-mount. Lens survived, but it was rather pricey to get fixed.
The Mamiya 7 is interesting, but way to big for my taste. I dont use these cameras commercially any more and dont ned the "full" complement of lenses. The Bessa III suits me - I can go along in the bag, together with my M's without being an extra burden. The 2 lbs weight is not that much more than a M with a 50 or 35 lens. So, I cut one m-body out and use the III instead.
I would love to see a couple of add'l Bessas - a wide 40's mm focal length and a 6x9 with a 105 Apo Lanthar - same optical quality as the III and same metering system. This does not mean that I would desert the M-system - but it would nicely complement it.
Leigh Youdale
09-06-2009, 22:27
Can I ask, and I'm sorry I don't know the model, in the last B/W shot what is the T shaped "device" on the RHS.
Apologies for off topic but curiosity overcomes me.
I think you'll find it's a bracket to hold the number plate - probably has a light in it as well to illuminate the plate at night.
Tom, love the car collections !
As far as I can see, the lens is very sharp. It does what folders do best plus the modern finish, modern lens coating which I believe are the selling points.
ChrisLivsey
09-06-2009, 22:46
Chris, the T-shaped device is a license plate holder.
Thanks Tom, of course I see it now.
Addendum; and to Leigh, now I feel a bit silly it is so obvious but just not a UK design. We go for a bit of bent metal nothing fancy.
Ernst Dinkla
09-06-2009, 23:49
There is something about vintage cars and Bessa III's obviously. The details and tones from a larger negative size - and the fact that the owners are quite taken by the "old" folder (except the ones who ask "Is it Digital?").
It is true, there was affection between the Iskra and the Delahaye-Pennock that I couldn't get between the 5D MK II and the Scott.
Ernst Dinkla
The Bessa is sharp but also has a quality about it, though still very modern. The wine bottles shot below has a wonderful richness that I like. The cars were shot in mid day sun. All were HP5.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/1141/U1141I1250867318.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/1141/U1141I1252335518.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/1141/U1141I1252335521.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffgallery/gallery/1141/U1141I1251394647.SEQ.0.jpg
It is true, there was affection between the Iskra and the Delahaye-Pennock that I couldn't get between the 5D MK II and the Scott.
Ernst Dinkla
I love the Scott - now try to get that one through a "safety" test for a manufacturer! The Delahaye is of course gorgeous - most of them were.
Is the Iskra shot at "Musee De La Automobile" in Mulhouse"? The roof supports and the crushed marble looks familiar.
Tom, love the car collections !
As far as I can see, the lens is very sharp. It does what folders do best plus the modern finish, modern lens coating which I believe are the selling points.
Thanks, there are more shots from this event and also other cars on our Flickr, done with the Bessa III. Click on the Bessa III set to get to them.
Ernst Dinkla
09-07-2009, 11:56
I love the Scott - now try to get that one through a "safety" test for a manufacturer! The Delahaye is of course gorgeous - most of them were.
Is the Iskra shot at "Musee De La Automobile" in Mulhouse"? The roof supports and the crushed marble looks familiar.
The Scott was shot in Mulhouse with the 5D MK II some weeks ago. I have always been fascinated by Scott's two stroke designs since I got a chance to buy a Scott twin motorcycle in the early 60's. No money then as a high school student. It is a strange vehicle, the ugly duck of that museum.
The Delahaye parked in the center of Heusden, Netherlands, when I crossed the market square of that old fortified town. I knew the Pennock coach factory name from years before as my family was in the bus coach manufacturing business since the late 30's. They were right about the esthetic qualities of the Pennock coaches. The only way and after all the best way to do it justice was filling the square Iskra format this way as the parking lot was too occupied for another angle. I'm quite fond of the picture but then printed with the 4000 PPI scan resolution it originally has. The B&W conversion is nice too.
Ernst Dinkla
http://www.pigment-print.com
Ernst, the Mulhouse Collection is incredible. The first time we went there was in 1982 - this was when the workers had taken over the factory after the Schlumph brothers had run for the Swiss border. The workers did not really know what to do with over 200 Bugatti's (they supposedly did torch a couple of the lesser ones for attention!).
We have been back multiple times since - and though it now contains other stuff than Bugattis - it is still a great way to do Automotive Nostalgia. I also like the very french solution to picture taking. You are allowed to take pictures - but the lights are turned down to about 1/8 sec @ f1.4 with tri X!!
Would have to get some Neopan 1600 in 120 and try to smuggle a mono-pod in there for the Bessa III.
Coach building family - nice. I always had a soft spot for the 50's British Coaches - nice details - never owned one though. Almost bought a Swiss Postal Bus decades ago - but sanity prevailed, unfortunately!
gilpen123
09-24-2009, 04:53
Never had a Hassy but used RB and RZ67s and they are now parked at home for quite some time. I think the portability, quiet shutter and AE of the Bessa III is what is pulling most people to get this MF camera. I myself is very tempted to jump into the fray, it's just unfortunate that more actual user reviews and sample shots are lacking. it seems that there is a slowdown of information in the net for the Bessa III.
I agree with Gil. I am very interested in this camera, but am searching far and wide on the Web for sample shots. Outside of Tom Abrahamsson's, there are very few good ones that would convince me to go buy it, either under the Bessa III or the GF670 label. There's a strange lack of momentum and buzz that you would normally expect with a new camera. I know it's expensive, but that doesn't stop people chattering endlessly about the M9, which is -- what? -- three times the price.
pstevenin
09-25-2009, 00:51
Go there, http://www.apug.org/forums/forum51/64019-voigtlander-bessa-iii-667-a.html there are some interesting links to be viewed.
Jamie123
09-25-2009, 01:02
I would love to give you a feedback already but my Bessa III has been stuck at customs the past few days. I'll get really annoyed if they don't process it today as I sent them all the details yesterday.
I've posted this one before, but the portrait of my camera-collecting friend Donald is a good example. It was shot pretty close to wide open.
This is the second time I noticed the out of focus areas on the Bessa III nearly wide open look somewhat "agitated", a bit (just a bit) like from a mirror lens. I wish it was smoother.
--
Jan
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2562/4012199840_e6b7b617c4.jpg
We went down to Seattle over the last week-end for the LHSA (Leica Historical Society Meeting) - and in spite of it being Leica-centric - I took the Bessa III along as well as some Tmax-2 400.
We went to the EMP - a Frank Gehry design and as the weather was picture perfect - I shot a couple of rolls there.
This one is the Darth Vader looking entrance!
Tmax-2 400 in Pyrocat HD, 13 min.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2545/4012200828_9bc138df2e.jpg
I like this entrance - entrance to a space ship! Most of the exterior stuff was shot at between f8-f11 as it was plenty bright.
Tmax2-400 in Pyrocat HD/13 min.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3222/4011434023_61a745a37e.jpg
The interior is as "spacey" as the exterior. Here I braced my elbows on a railing, set the aperture at f5.6 and, if memory serves me right, it was either 1/8 or a 1/4 sec. The "soft" release on the Bessa makes it reasonably easy to handhold at these speeds.
Tmax2-400 in Pyrocat HD/13 min.
pstevenin
10-16-2009, 00:52
Tom,
About the release, I do not really like it, it is not as frank as on M. I put one of your mini soft release on the trigger and everything is okay now. I do not have to push the trigger but gently squeeze the release and you can gain at least two stops using this technique. Every serious gun shooter will tell you that, never pull the trigger, squeeze it.
Jamie123
10-16-2009, 01:20
Tom,
About the release, I do not really like it, it is not as frank as on M. I put one of your mini soft release on the trigger and everything is okay now. I do not have to push the trigger but gently squeeze the release and you can gain at least two stops using this technique. Every serious gun shooter will tell you that, never pull the trigger, squeeze it.
Interesting. IMO the Bessa's release is very soft and "squeezeable". Sometimes almost too soft as you need to watch out when you want to lock exposure so that you don't accidentally trip the shutter.
pstevenin
10-16-2009, 10:40
that's the idea, is it not really evident to master it (hence push the trigger when you really want it). And with a Tom mini soft release screwed to it, everything is under perfect control (at least for me).
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