View Full Version : Is it bad to shoot a "dry" camera?
I recently picked up a IIIa, and it's been working great. The only problem is that 1/60 and 1/100 sound a little dry and metallic (the other speeds are ok.) You know when you screw in a lens and the metal rubs together making that sound? Kind of like that, only much less so.
I'm wondering if it's bad if I just keep using it. Is there a chance that it'll ruin anything?
Because 1/60 and 1/100 have no part of the mechanism dedicated to them, it's probably safe to carry on if the other speeds, specially the slow speeds, are working all right. Best to show to a good technician, though.
Ok thanks. I'll keep that in mind.
Mephiloco
08-30-2009, 19:51
I've been wondering the same thing. My camera is currently at DAG, and when he first popped it open to give me an estimate on replacing the rangefinder follower he told me the camera is 'very dry' and needs an overhaul. Well I'm kinda broke so I'm having him just repair what's making the camera inoperational right now.
I also figure that I'm going to replace one of the shutter curtains relatively soon, and instead of paying to have it overhauled and the shutter replaced later that I'd wait until later and have both done at the same time and save some money.
Al Kaplan
08-30-2009, 20:01
Before the development of synthetic lubricants it was common to get you Leica or other camera "winterized for use in severely cold weather. This consisted of removing all of the lubricant, that might thicken in the cold, and running the camera dry.
BillBingham2
08-30-2009, 20:35
Cameras that have not been used in a lot of years need some help waking up sort of. I always advise people to dry fire their cameras a few hundred times at all speeds. This helps loosen up the old lube and often brings the shutter speeds much closer to spot on. Nikons don't need this any where near as much as Leicas do. Helps between the lens shutters a lot too.
Worry not, pick of night of TV and annoy your family, friends or pets.
B2 (;->
Praxis Unitas
08-30-2009, 21:23
Before the development of synthetic lubricants it was common to get you Leica or other camera "winterized for use in severely cold weather. This consisted of removing all of the lubricant, that might thicken in the cold, and running the camera dry.
There's a wonderful little vial of Swiss watch oil called Moebus that fits the bill for this. It's the best stuff you can get for lubricating the tiny bearings of an older camera. Because it's synthetic, it can function without degradation in viscosity down to sub zero temperatures. I'm no expert, but I Just used it on a CLA for my M3 and it now works perfectly. I'd apply it to the bearing s on a tiny dropper or a toothpick, then dip it in alcohol. Repeat this a few times while cycling the shutter to ensure full lubrication.
Also, you could just try 'wetting' the dried oils with some alcohol while cycling the shutter. It may not be winterized, just stiff, and the alcohol can soften that up enough to re-lube the gears.
Good luck!
Luddite Frank
08-31-2009, 04:45
If the camera does not show a lot of wear marks (rubs, "brassing" on the usual "touch-surfaces"), I would presume that it was lightly (infrequently) used, and that any lube is probably dried-up and ineffective.
As a general rule of thumb, if the shutter "shrieks" or "squawks" when you fire it, it is crying for a CLA, and it's best to get it done soon, otherwise you will be wearing-out rare factory parts, and running-up your repair bill for when you do send it in.
I think this is espcecially true of focal plane shutters, as the parts have further to travel, higher spring tension, etc.
"Between the lens shutters", such as Compur, Prontor, Copal, etc, are more "self-protective": when they reach a critical state of "dry lube", they usually just stop working altogether.
My experience with LTM shutters is that they have a characteristic "shhhoop!" when fired, or "shup----shhhoop!" on speeds below 1/20th, but there should be no metallic sounds: squeaks, shrieks, etc.
If you want to try a home-brew diagnostic, remove the lens from the camera, and put a body-cap (if you have one) over the lens mount, then set your oven on the lowest temp (not over 100 F: verify with an accruate oven thermometer!!!), and put your LTM on its back on a clean cookie-sheet, and let it warm for about an hour.
When the time is up (toothpick comes-out clean :rolleyes:), remove the cookie sheet and camera (use an oven-mitt or pot-holder!), then remove camera from sheet and let cool for about 5 minutes, until you can comfortably handle it with bare hands.
Now sit down in front of the telly and run the shutter through all its speeds several times, noting any unusual noises or odd behavior.
If you seen some improvement, keep working it for about 15 minutes, then put it aside overnight.
Next day, run the shutter through its range of speeds, and see how it behaves; if the "bad noises" have returned, it needs CLA , don't use it too much until you have it serviced.
If the shutter has quieted down, you may have bought some additional operating time.
If putting the camera in the oven sounds too risky, and you live in a warm climate, you could try leaving the camera body in the glovebox of your car, parked in the sun for the day, then try working the camera around supper time... here in the Northeastern US, it's quite common for the interior of a car to reach 120 to 140 deg F on a hot day.
I've used this trick many times with folding cameras with Compur shutters, and they usually free-up, until they cool down again.
Have not had to do this with a focal-plane shutter.
Have not killed any cameras yet.
If your camera is in really nice cosmetic shape, I would strongly suggest sending it out for service rather than fiddling-around, and possibly causing harm.
Just my few cents'-worth.
Good luck !
Luddite Frank
Livesteamer
08-31-2009, 04:56
Luddite Frank brings back good memories of college in the mid 1970's. I worked for three departments at college taking pictures, mostly with a Nikon F. I had recently bought a wonderful old Nikon S which needed a cla. The Nikon was quiet so I could use it in the theater but the slow speeds would not work. For several years I would wrap it in a towel, put it on a warm radiater for an hour, then rush over to the theater and take my photos while the shutter was still warm and working. I still have that Nikon S but got it a cla as soon as I could afford it. Joe
i loved hearing L. Franks comments , classic eh! i reckon he is on the mark as well but i wouldnt recommend it as a 'cure all' though haha (in relation to some remarks)
time and time again i have done that sort of thing (ad heat) and for short term it does work, sometimes only for a few hours, it really depends on ambient temp, the age, the camera , it can seize up (slow up) rather quick ( within a day or so). i am also of the belief that the more times this happens it seems to shorten the span before the camera will work again more freely at was near correct , in other words the more times its done the quicker it takes for the lube to thicken (solidify) next time..obviously the best remedy is to have it serviced properly, remove old lubes!.
a respected RFF member (fred) in a different post mentioned in another thread not long ago that a camera built in the 2000 years by nikon and stood in the box for that time the mechanical shutter would be close to perfect; i would have to disagree. my experience is even these 'modern' camera (manual shutter) with their modern lube stood in a box for as little as 3-5 years slow up considerably. its not something that can be heard by ear, i have a commercial quality shutter tester and i find that great differences in speed even though they sound ok and take pictures ok but at least 20-30% out of range (often more). thats still within acceptable limits with repairmen but a CLA can bring it back to within spot on (a fraction) of a semi modern camera.
the electric shutters seem to be spot on years after, if not over worn out . i love mech camera, they have their advantages, but for perfection (as if its needed), until it runs out, an electric shutter is more consistent over a long period (assuming your period isn't decades!)
as for the IIIA making metallic sounds, of course it is doing damage, you know it, we know it, we can all cross our fingers and pretend there is nothing wrong but that is false. it will work forever but if you want it to work properly, then a CLA is needed...sheeze its prob only been 70 odd years since its had one
I hope my medical plan is not so parsimonious during my next heart attack.
Either get a CLA from someone like Yeoxin, or put it back in the drawer it came out of until you save enough to service it.
Send the lens(es) as well, Yeoxin is quite reasonable at cleaning the elements if needed, and I am guessing something is probably in there after all these years that should not be.
Any resistance or dryness sensed when winding, or shooting, means the camera probably should have been serviced years ago. Perhaps the last owner had an HMO?
Yeoxin or others will know in a few minutes what you need and can provide it at a reasonable price, even with a new set of shutter curtains, and with any luck the camera will soldier on for at least 20 years more. What is that, $10 a year worse case? Wait, some of that time will be covered by the warranty.
Or, I suppose you can heat up some Swedish Salmon oil (I get mine from packages of salmon imported and carefully drained of the precious oil strained through a Mr. Coffee Filter) mixing it with crushed Viagara for slow speed problems, and after removing the bottom of the camera funnel, or syringe it in, heating to 374 Degrees Kelvin in the crock pot for 27.35 hours during the winter solstice, hopefully during a full moon, followed by 23 turns in the salad spinner, after which you can either try to use it without the neighborhood cats hounding you, or you can carefully wrap it in a Turkish towel, place it in a cardboard box inside of a Ziploc bag, and then ship it for service.
Please include documentary photos of the process.
You'll thank me later. ;-)
Regards, John
PS-- re-read the OP, seriously, see if you can locate reasonable service and prudently proceed to have the camera evaluated and treated accordingly. Postage to Yeoxin in the US might be an option?
I have a IIIb exhibiting funny slow-speeds and a dark RF/VF. I will have both sent off. I know a semi-local place here in Japan that I will send them off to.
I hope my medical plan is not so parsimonious during my next heart attack.
Or, I suppose you can heat up some Swedish Salmon oil (I get mine from packages of salmon imported and carefully drained of the precious oil strained through a Mr. Coffee Filter) mixing it with crushed Viagara for slow speed problems, and after removing the bottom of the camera funnel, or syringe it in, heating to 374 Degrees Kelvin in the crock pot for 27.35 hours during the winter solstice, hopefully during a full moon, followed by 23 turns in the salad spinner, after which you can either try to use it without the neighborhood cats hounding you, or you can carefully wrap it in a Turkish towel, place it in a cardboard box inside of a Ziploc bag, and then ship it for service.
Not so fast, John, I'm trying to write down all the steps -- wouldn't want to get them wrong. Can it be any good coffee filter or must it be specifically a Mr. Coffee filter?
Not so fast, John, I'm trying to write down all the steps -- wouldn't want to get them wrong. Can it be any good coffee filter or must it be specifically a Mr. Coffee filter?
Hopefully one from the Dimaggio era. ;-)
Melita are for amateurs in these things.
Dry sounding cameras are like "angina", best not ignored for too long, time = parts, in this case.
In the OP's defense, I must confess to hauling around a IIIc to Wetzlar and Prague, looking for good reasonable repair, and returning home to find out the guy I had known for 30 years and who owed me a favor was a respected Leica SM repairman who did reasonably priced rebuilds.
It sometimes takes a bit of looking to find someone reliable, and reasonable.
John
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