View Full Version : pronunciation?
JoeFriday
06-16-2005, 12:48
ok, here's probably the stupidest question that's been asked on here in a long time...
how do you pronounce "Zeiss"... I never know if it's "Z-ee-ss" or "Z-eye-ss".. or I suppose it could even be "Z-eh-ss"
"Z-eye-ss", but try to get a little bit if a "T" sound in front of the Z...
"TZ-eye-ss"
ok, here's probably the stupidest question that's been asked on here in a long time...
how do you pronounce "Zeiss"... I never know if it's "Z-ee-ss" or "Z-eye-ss".. or I suppose it could even be "Z-eh-ss"
I've always heard it pronounced "Zice". Here in the States that is.
Now, how do you say..."Ikon"?
cp_ste.croix
06-16-2005, 12:58
ok, here's probably the stupidest question that's been asked on here in a long time...
how do you pronounce "Zeiss"... I never know if it's "Z-ee-ss" or "Z-eye-ss".. or I suppose it could even be "Z-eh-ss"
you know 'zees' is a very interestink qvestion...
i say Z-eye-ss
Now, how do you say..."Ikon"?
I've always heard it pronounced "eye-kon", but again, here in the States we may not pronounce it as in other parts of the known universe. :)
JoeFriday
06-16-2005, 13:08
ha.. so I've been saying it right, even tho my ignorant friends all say "Zeese"
and it only makes sense since you wouldn't say "Leeka"
I'll have to work on throwing that T in, as well.. then they'll really give me funny looks
laptoprob
06-16-2005, 13:10
Hi all, the Dutch are Germany's neighbours. We know a little about their language. Every 'Z' in german is pronounced with a little 't' in front. Idt is not 'Moozart' but 'Mootzart'. Therefore it is TZeiss, but not really like 'ice' but more like 'aice'. A little 'aa' first.
Ikon is juse 'IIkon'. 'Aikon' is a Russian religious thing...
Leica - similarly - is not 'Laika' but 'Leeika', the first bit like in 'lesson'.
'Voigtlander' should really be Voigtlaender, or with an umlaut on the 'a', making it pronounced like 'egg'-like 'e'. The 'g' is a very light one, it does not exist in English as far as I know.
Clarified?
Brett, you're running with the wrong crowd!
laptoprob
06-16-2005, 13:16
True, Frank, but he is getting somewhere! Expanding his horizon! Learning German!
Tss-aye-ss ee-Kon.
The Z is pronounced as a sharp tsss, not a soft zzzz.
The '-eye-' part, just like in Leica - L-eye-k-uh - is pronounced more closed & at the top than the English word 'eye' (kinda like in 'May', but not quite...), also, less dipthongized than in English (the 'ah' and 'ee' - sounds are not as distinct as in 'eye', but merge into one sound).
The second part is not 'Eye-kon' (as the English word 'icon'), but 'ee-Kon', with the stress on the second syllable (the 'kon'), not the first (as in 'icon').
Roman
Thanks Roman,
If you post something and wait, eventually someone will eventually show up that knows what the heck they are talking about. Now the hard part. Can you explain to an American how to pronounce the "R" in say... Roman.
Thanks Roman,
If you post something and wait, eventually someone will eventually show up that knows what the heck they are talking about. Now the hard part. Can you explain to an American how to pronounce the "R" in say... Roman.
;)
Difficult - chicanos can do it (as I know from experience), but 'merrricans have a hard time...
For a German 'r'-sound, try not to curl your tongue backwards, as for the 'retroflex' American 'r', but try using the middle part of your tongue against your palate; it is a bit less rolling, shorter than a Spanish/Mexican 'r'.
Oh, and the '-man' part in Roman is not like American 'man', but more like 'm-ah-n' - more like in the Queen's English...
;)
Roman
PS: I took some linguistics classes when I was an English major in another life...
In English, as spoken in the upper South, there seem to be at least three "R"s in Washington. Just a comment. Johne
JoeFriday
06-16-2005, 13:48
Brett, you're running with the wrong crowd!
you got that right, Frank... aside from my father who bought a Braun Paxette in Germany while in the service, I don't know anyone who knows what a rangefinder is.. the rest think that Nikons are the best, being slightly better than Sonys.. and they all think I'm insane for starting with a digital camera and switching 'backward' to film
Roman,
The German "R" is tough. I always had touble with that.
Thanks
In English, as spoken in the upper South, there seem to be at least three "R"s in Washington. Just a comment. Johne
Growing up in MD, I said "Warshin'ton" and it took a long time to break the habit. Now I just say "DC". :)
Then there's "Baltimer", "Baltmer" and "Bawlmer"...... depending upon where in MD you grew up. Anyone who says "Baltimore" ain't from there in all likelyhood.
Walker
Being from Washington (the state) originally, I always HATED hearing "Warshington."
THERE'S NO 'R' IN WASHINGTON!!!!
Whew, thanks, I feel better now. :)
THERE'S NO 'R' IN WASHINGTON!!!!
The one that fascinates me is the town of Norfolk {sic} Nebraska. This is probably best known for being the childhood home of Johnny Carson. For those of you not from the States, the late Johnny Carson was a long-time TV host over here.
The townies insist, sometimes defensively, that the name of their town is to be pronounced "Nor-Fork", and yes, there's a story behind it.
From what I heard, when the town was founded in the late 1800s, they decided to name it NorFork, since it was on the north fork of the {mumble} river. The town government then sent away to the US Postal Service (or whatever it was called back then) in Washington for a post mark stamp for their new post office, and the Powers That Be in Washington (Warshington?) thought it was a typo and issued the stamp as Norfolk. The town was listed in the postal records as Norfolk and therefore appeared on maps and railroad timetables as Norfolk, and that spelling survives today.
That's what "they" tell me, anyway. :) :)
Gabriel M.A.
06-16-2005, 18:15
Zeiss rhymes with but does not mix with ice.
Ikon, next to your Nikon, when doing a reportage in Iran, is with the "i" pronounced "ee".
Leica, is not like like, but more like Einstein, or Bernstein. Remember Ich bin (ein) blah? Ein is not "ayyynn", but "eh-yh". I'm not even German! But I have a freunde that taught me some words so that I would not be singled out the week I stayed in Wien and Dresden (dhrehhhsdn).
There will be a test tomorrow ;)
From what I heard, when the town was founded in the late 1800s, they decided to name it NorFork, since it was on the north fork of the {mumble} river. The town government then sent away to the US Postal Service (or whatever it was called back then) in Washington for a post mark stamp for their new post office, and the Powers That Be in Washington (Warshington?) thought it was a typo and issued the stamp as Norfolk. The town was listed in the postal records as Norfolk and therefore appeared on maps and railroad timetables as Norfolk, and that spelling survives today.
That's what "they" tell me, anyway. :) :)
Exactly the same story as a town about 10 miles from me....... Fort Valley, Georgia. It was supposed to be "Fox Valley" and the US Post Office in DC got it wrong. It's been Fort Valley ever since.
Walker
Gabrielma,Wien and Dresden? That is two different languages spoken there! I doubt they can understand one another..... :D
So it's not named after the East Anglian county of Norfolk?
Nope, named for the north fork of the river. Even TV weather people around here pronounce it "Nor-Fork". :)
Now, to get a totally different view, where I am. Zeiss is pronounced .....Zahisu.
and IKON....... iekonn..
Leica .......raikah.....
But then again Engrish is not the main language and Germany is still called Doichelando..or Jarmany
Miekerou.
The one that fascinates me is the town of Norfolk {sic} Nebraska. This is probably best known for being the childhood home of Johnny Carson. For those of you not from the States, the late Johnny Carson was a long-time TV host over here.
The townies insist, sometimes defensively, that the name of their town is to be pronounced "Nor-Fork", and yes, there's a story behind it.
And there's another reason why they prefer it. For ages (including when I was going to college there) Lincoln, Nebraska TV station KOLN had an ancient weatherman named Mel Mains, who was famous (or notorious) for his idiosyncratic pronunciation style.
That meant that every night, as he was doing the regional weather roundup, we'd all get to hear Mel say, "...and the temperature in NOR-FUKK tonight..."
I've spelled it phonetically, to get past possible naughty-word scanners on the board, but you can picture how it sounded. No wonder the natives preferred "Nor-Fork"...
oftheherd
06-17-2005, 10:46
Between Vietnam tours, I spent about 3 months at Ft Devons, MA, in the USA. The town of Worchester is close to that. An attractive young lady at the Provost Marshal's office corrected my pronounciation of that, telling me it was pronounced "Woo(r)ster." When I asked her what it was woorster than, she wasn't amused.
Gabrielma,Wien and Dresden? That is two different languages spoken there! I doubt they can understand one another..... :D
Like they say - 'Austrians and Germans are divided by their common language!'.
Roman
The late conductor, Leonard Bernstein, was often asked if his name was "steen" or "stine". His answer: Did you ever hear of a "Steenway" piano?
In German, "ei" = English "I". Das ist richtig.
"Stein" means "stone" in German. Einstein was, therefore, "one stone". (At least below his brain???)
Ikon, next to your Nikon, when doing a reportage in Iran, is with the "i" pronounced...
Once they're in stock, I'll bet your friendly Hasselblad dealer will be happy to sell you one even if you mispronounce the name -- as long as you have the requisite dollars.
That's Zeiss Econ!
Mike Kovacs
06-24-2005, 08:37
I'll add my 2 cents from having knowledge of German:
Tz-eye-ss Ee-cone - definitely "own" for German "on" with the most emphasis on the K. "On" in the English way is written "an" in German. There is no "aih" type sound in German like "can".
BJ Bignell
06-24-2005, 09:29
Between Vietnam tours, I spent about 3 months at Ft Devons, MA, in the USA. The town of Worchester is close to that. An attractive young lady at the Provost Marshal's office corrected my pronounciation of that, telling me it was pronounced "Woo(r)ster." When I asked her what it was woorster than, she wasn't amused.
Yeah it's like "wu(r)ss-ter", with a very subtle (r) as mentioned. And the folks there aren't shy about correcting you either! (It's Worcester, without the "h", too.)
Did you ever go and wander the grounds of the abandoned mental institution on the top of the hill? It's enough to give you the creeps, I tell ya!
1) http://www.worcestermass.com/places/asylum.shtml
2) http://www.abandonedasylum.com/wsh.html
3) http://www.kirkbridebuildings.com/buildings/worcester.html
titrisol
06-24-2005, 10:03
Leute besser wurde wenn sie Deutsch gelernt???
Ja woll Herr Komandant!!!
http://www.hogansheroesfanclub.com/images/photoHH23300_small.jpg
LOL
True, Frank, but he is getting somewhere! Expanding his horizon! Learning German!
Having majored in Spanish and taught it for 34 years, I've been through my share of linguistics and Latin. (Where I went Spanish and French majors had to take a year of Latin.)
It's interesting how letters differ in different languages, and "r" is one of the bugaboos. It gets a different treatment in English, Spanish, French, and German,largely based on just where yu hook your palate or tongue to the roof of the mouth.
Anyone else to a New Englander: How come "Cuber" has an "r" but "cah" doesn't??
German (and Latin) have so-called "cases" by which nouns and adjectives change according to whether they are subject, direct object, indirect object, or possessive - plus in Latin ablative and vocative. Anyone who has ever had to study Latin knows why it died out and became the respective "romance" languages. Prepositions are exactly that: PRE-positions that took the place of the infernal cases.
That is not to say that German doesn't also have prepositions. I took a year of German in high school (fifty years ago), and to this day I can still recite the "dative prepositions": aus, auser, bei, mit, nach, zeit, von, zu. Now, don't ask me to try to remember what they all mean!!!
I wish I had a dollar for every time somebody has told me what an advantage it is to speak two (or more) languages - just don't ask them to do it.
NOW -- how the H... did we get off into this???
More fun to this thread as in prounciations in HongKong:
Zeiss: Sy-see
Leica: Lie-gar
Contax: Con-tac-see
Nikon: Nick-corn
Took me a while to figure those out.
Duncan Ross
06-25-2005, 00:19
Having majored in Spanish and taught it for 34 years, I've been through my share of linguistics and Latin. (Where I went Spanish and French majors had to take a year of Latin.)
It's interesting how letters differ in different languages, and "r" is one of the bugaboos. It gets a different treatment in English, Spanish, French, and German,largely based on just where yu hook your palate or tongue to the roof of the mouth.
And English and Scottish have very different 'R's. Nobody speaks like groundskeeper Wullie here but it is easier to understand us Scots when you realise that 'r' is its own syllable. For most people 'girl' has one syllable, in Scotland it has two. Now where's me Zorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrki..?
Pherdinand
06-25-2005, 06:29
Well, i won't say anything about dutch and their "r" and "g" and "h" :D
When I lived in West Covina, CA, I had a neighbor who was British and his wife Scottish. The wife was the only person I ever heard who made a two-syllable word of "arm". As in, "I slipped yestahrrrrday and bruised my arrr-um."
One of my Spanish professors at San Jose State had a saying, "Cada uno es dueno", which is a rough equivalent of "To each his own". (There should be a tilde over the "n" in "dueno", but this damned thing won't do it except in the word processor.)
When I belonged to the Elks lodge in W. C., there was an Irishman who had a friend in the Alhambra lodge who was also Irish -- but they were from different counties. Whenever the Alhambra guy showed up, it was "Is Jerrry herrre?" Yeah, Jerrry's herrre. The two of them together were a fright to understand.
And English and Scottish have very different 'R's. Nobody speaks like groundskeeper Wullie here but it is easier to understand us Scots when you realise that 'r' is its own syllable. For most people 'girl' has one syllable, in Scotland it has two. Now where's me Zorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrki..?
Robinson Crusoe was actually based on a true story, the protagonist was an officer who asked to be put ashore, changed his mind, and got left anyways. The version I saw on the history channel said that despite his efforts at maintaining his speech, and the fact that he was discovered by people who knew him and had sailed with him before on previous vessles - they could barely understand him.
At which point I thought - A sailor and a scottsman - no wonder they couldn't understand him.
Just today on tv, there was a movie that was subtitled. Missed the title but it was filmed in Scotland and made by Scots. They were speaking english.
I thought it odd. And unnecessary.
Rob
Well, they often have to subtitle Austrian dialect movies if they are to be shown on German TV...
Roman
This doesn't have anything to do with photographing anymore, but do you guys and girls know any other language than the language i speak (finnish) where you pronounce letters in words ALWAYS the same? I mean for example; the letter "e" in words "english" and "letter" are pronounced differently in english language. In finnish language we pronounce for example that mentioned letter "e" always exactly the same - no matter what the words is. Same goes for all letters and letter combinations...only exception being when you have letters "ng" - that is pronounced like in word "english".
RObert Budding
07-08-2005, 16:44
We'd need a very large alphabet if letters could only make one sound! But it would make spelling a lot easier.
Robert
Fedzilla_Bob
07-08-2005, 17:18
Hey:)
So it's not named after the East Anglian county of Norfolk?
ManGo
Back in the Washington, DC area there was a tendency to pronounce Norfolk, Virginia as "Norf*ck."
Pherdinand
07-10-2005, 04:13
do you guys and girls know any other language than the language i speak (finnish) where you pronounce letters in words ALWAYS the same?
Yes. Hungarian. :)
Robert, we do have a larger alphabet due to this reason. Just because "e" is always pronounced like the first "e" in "letter", we have "é" as well. Same with á, í, ü, ö, ó, ú, and a few more which in standard ascii does not exist :D
Roger Hicks
07-10-2005, 12:31
Dear Pherdinand,
But then there are words like the composer''s name 'Kodaly' where the L is not given the same value as in most other Hungarian words.
I'd back Tibetan myself -- but then a lot depends on accent (Lhasa vs. Khamba for example).
Tashi delegs,
Roger
Pherdinand
07-10-2005, 15:06
True, Roger - but then, officially, "ly" forms a single letter in the alphabet, just as "ty" "cs" "sz" "zs" and some others.
Bertram2
07-10-2005, 16:23
Well, they often have to subtitle Austrian dialect movies if they are to be shown on German TV...
Roman
Roman,
for "Kottan ermittelt" I sometimes wished I had subtitles. But meanwhile you sometimes would be happy to have subtitles even for some German films too, all this mumbling of those selftaught actors is a PIA !! Language education seems to be outta style ? :-) Comes from a total lack of theater experience, they would die there in a minute.
Maybe this thread has got a bit OT but at least it all stays friendly . In another forum it was recently discussed how "Voigtlaender" must be pronounced and reading all the misery I could not help to jump in after a while tho nobody had asked the help of a German :-)
And I explained it but a guy from US contradicted and tried to correct me and after I told him a second time that he was wrong he insisted to be right because his German wife would pronounce it this way.
Hmm, at this point I jumped out again because otherwise I had to tell him that his wife does not speak her own language properly ....... :bang:
Best,
Bertram
Roger Hicks
07-15-2005, 10:17
Dear Pherdinand,
Oh, dear. CS and the like I know about but not LY. Aaargh!
Then again, try these (which are completely phonetic) in Maltese
Ghaxar (ten -- asha)
Qaqocc (artichoke -- !a!otch, where ! is a glottal stop)
Dqiq (flour -- see qaqocc)
Or in Tibetan, rDorje Sems.dpa (Dorjay Sempa)
Cheers,
Roger
True, Roger - but then, officially, "ly" forms a single letter in the alphabet, just as "ty" "cs" "sz" "zs" and some others.
Rats! Beat me to "Hungarian."
Besides, how could my naturalized mother speak her favorite word to her husband without the letter "sz?" Lofasz just doesn't sound right any other way...
(I'm KIDDING!!!)
If anyone wants a REAL challange, study Spanish in school for a few years, then try to learn Portuguese. Sure LOOKS similar, but the accent is TOTALY different, along with the colloquialisms, and seeing the word "no" scattered through any literature immediately for this English speaker (and a schooled Spanish mumbler) brought to mind for years ideas of negation and slowed my reading, not able to get used to the contraction for "in the (masculine)" that "no" represents. English "no" of course is a simple não, and is strongly nasalized, as the til over the "ã" would indicate. "Mom" in English is "mãe" and again is strongly nasalized, but is unforgettable when heard screaming from the mouths of several pre-teen girls when told "no" (actually, "não", but I'm splitting hairs)
Roger Hicks
07-15-2005, 15:07
Portuguezhe always shzounds to me like a drunk trying to shzpeak Shzpanish through hizh nozhe. And the Portuguese often understand you if you do that, provided you make it clear you don't speak (ugh!) Spanish. As a Portuguese maitre d' once said to me, "I cannot stand the Spanish. They are even more proud than the French, with even less to be proud about..."
Cheers,
Roger
Pherdinand
07-16-2005, 00:38
Roger, you amaze me with your exotic linguistic knowledge:)
Yeah, it's always the same: small countries cannot stand their big neighbours. Sure, plenty of historical reasons to that...on a personal level, however, it seems not to be true. I mean, i know plenty of dutch guys having german friends, but when it's collective, it's some kind of fashion to not like germans in general. I guess that's how we are:)
jdos2, i hope you really were kidding with that 'favourite word', LOL
By the way my real name has two of these twists (Csaba Jozsa)... Somehow, people without any knowledge in hungarian ALWAYS mix up the zs with the sz. Even when copying it. Seems more normal to them - although they themselves have neither of the two combinations in their own language.
Bertram, funny story:) Yes, there are always a few who want to be 'holier than the pope'. And Voigtlaender is not an easy word, admit it:)
Roger Hicks
07-16-2005, 02:51
Dear Pherdinand,
I come from Cornwall, a small country with its own history and language; it has been occupied by the English for over 1000 years, though there have been serious uprisings and genuine threats of rebellion, the last about 450 years ago.
Until recently I always reckoned that the English occupation was a good thing -- we're too small to survive on our own -- but with the increasing stature of the EU and the ever-loonier attitude of the English (the current anti-photographer paedophilia hysteria is a good example) I do wonder if it isn't time to demand home rule and direect membership of the EU in case the crazy English pull out. There are even English people who want to leave the EU and join NAFTA -- how weird can you get?
We could also tax second homes very heavily so that Cornish people (like myself) could afford to live there again instead of seeing our country turned into a playground for Londoners.
Cheers,
Roger
Roger Hicks
07-16-2005, 03:17
Dear Pherdinand,
Incidentally the linguistic interests are all fairly easily explicable. when I was a boy I lived in Malta and inevitably learned Maltese; my mother believed it was extremely rude to live somewhere and not learn some of the languiage. Since then I've done a lot of work for the Tibetan Government in Exile (hence Tibetan) and travelled a lot: I only got to Hungary for the first time in 2000 but one of my oldest, closes friends is called Miklos. His father Gyorgy left Hungary in a hurry in '48...
Then there was the half-Japanese girlfriend whose mother lent me a book called 'Japanese in three weeks...' And my first wife was born in Turkey and studied flower arranging at the Sogetsu; and my first fiancee, long before, spoke some Swahili. Etcetera.
Cheers,
Roger
John Robertson
07-17-2005, 16:29
Yes Roger, another bunch of Celts, up here have the same experience of holiday homes, however the Assembly in Edinburgh is about to give them a shock, by removing the exemption from the community charge. and charging the full rate. Perhaps a parliament in Truro!!
OT how does that song go again----
"you say tomato and I say tomaeto---
--------------lets call the whole thing off!!" :rolleyes:
Leicanthrope
07-18-2005, 12:43
Returning to the original photography-related theme of this topic, though not to the original camera, I have always been fascinated by the inability of everyone I have ever heard mention it to pronounce the name of the Olympus µ series. Personally I think that giving a camera a name like this displays a very optimistic view of the education system, but in Britain it seems to be universally believed that the camera is called 'MJU', as I have only ever heard it pronounced 'emjayewe'. I have yet to encounter anyone - including staff of camera shops - who was aware that 'mju' is merely the phonetic pronunciation of µ. (I have no knowledge of Greek myself, but I do recognise a phonetic pronunciation when I see one).
P.S. I know in the States these cameras are called 'Stylus Epic', probably for very sound reasons.
Roger Hicks
07-18-2005, 12:54
Dear John,
YES!
But we already have the Stannary Parliament. All we need is our ancient rights restored.
Cheers,
Roger
(Kernow bys vecken!)
John Robertson
07-18-2005, 14:28
Slainte Mhor
JohnR
Wayne R. Scott
07-18-2005, 16:48
When I lived in Arizona, I used my Nikon, Zeiss Ikon, and Leica to photograph Cholla and Saguaro cactus by the Gila River. Any one want to take a stab at the correct pronunciation of the cactus and river names?
Wayne
tcho-ya? sah-gooahroh (with the g almost swallowed)? gheela(I don't know how to transcribe the 'g'-sound in English, as it does not exist in English).
OK, I admit, I do speak a few words of rudimentary Spanish, picked up from Chicano friends...
Roman
Roger Hicks
07-19-2005, 00:54
Gouda cheese is a good one. It's that g/h sound again (as in Gila) and the d disappears.
I've always had problems getting my head around Slavic languages written in Roman characters, such as the place name in Slovenia -- Ptuj -- and those vowel-less Serbo-Croat names like Krk.
Then again, there's a place name in London with six consonants in a row, GHTSBR
Cheers,
Roger (it's Knightsbridge, of course)
Pherdinand
07-19-2005, 01:48
And there's a finnish word consisting of seven voals. But i've forgot what it is. It's something related to brides and the night and such :)
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