Best "All Around" 400-ISO B&W Film & Developer for 35mm B&W Leica "M" Street Shooting

[LeicaVirgin1]

Dear Sir-

I am a fan of your book. I have written you once before.

My question is what the best "All Around" 400-ISO B&W Film & Developer for 35mm B&W Leica "M" Street Shooting.

I get confusing responses that are also conflicting from other forums on this site. People mean well, it's just that I am looking for just 1 film & 1 developer to use in most situations.:bang:

I look forward to your response.

Best & Respect,

DM Brown/LV1

[Al Kaplan]

Tri-X and D-76 at 1:1 dilution.

[Ducky]

Can't argue with Al. That's what I would recommend.

[Mephiloco]

I was going to say the same thing. Tri-X/Arista Premium with D76 1:1 or Rodinal.

[abenner]

I like the convenience of Rodinal and the look it gives Tri-X. You buy a bottle of the solution and when you want to develop some film you draw about 5 ml out (a syringe works great) and mix with water and you're ready to go. And you can push if you need. Just my thoughts.

[Haigh]

Tri-X and d76 for a really smooth look or Rodinal for that beautiful grainy look and also convenience since it is a liquid.

[Ronald M]

What Al said

[Mackinaw]

Tri-X and D-76 at 1:1 dilution.

Yuppers. A marriage made in heaven.

Jim B.

[hans voralberg]

As one who live in England and love Ilford I'd like to recommend HP5 and Ilford DDX. Tri-X is cool too!

[Roger Hicks]

There is no one best: there is only personal preference.

I use HP5 in DD-X; my wife used Tri-X in the same developer (for the same time, fortunately).

Cheers,

R.

[Chris101]

Hi DM,

First off, my lawyer will be in touch regarding your user name. ;)

On a serious note, it is hard to disregard the sage and nearly universal recommendation you have gotten here. Trix/D76 is a standard and a classic combination, which has many good characteristics that make it an easy choice.

I like to be different though, so I prefer to use hc110. I like the somewhat harsher look it imparts. The contrast is not quite as well controlled and the grain is a bit clumpy. This supports my vision of photography as something that happens fast. It compliments the way I shoot - pre-meter, pre-focus, shoot from the hip, etc.

If you seek a purist modernism, perhaps something like Delta 400 is the way to go, but for my grunge style, I like it fast and active. Trix + HC110 dilution B, agitated for 5 seconds every half minute. Six and a half minutes at 20°C on stainless reels/tank, water stop, rapid fix for 4 minutes, HCA and a 15 minute wash, hang to dry for an hour, contact scan and print the keepers on 11x14 MGIV matte fiber paper.

Bam!

[David_Manning]

Great minds think alike. Tri-X, HC-110, 6 minutes for me(!) dilution B at 20C. Solid, easily printable negs.

[mark-b]

Tri-X in Rodinal 1:50...the grain is fabulous. I changed over to Rodinal out of convenience. I'd go back to D-76 if they still made the liquid concentrate equivalent.

[FrankS]

HP5+ in HC110 at 1:100 for 19 min. at 21C.
Agitate continuously for 1st minute, then 10 sec every 3 minutes.

HC110 keeps forever like Rodinol but gives less grainy results. Use a syringe to measure the developer syrup.

[Matus]

One anti-recommendation: do NOT get HP5+ with Pyrocat HD - for some reason you will get white spots (pinholes, whatever, they have sharp edges and tiny black spot in the middle). I am not the only one who experienced this.

[martin s]

HP5+ in XTOL 1+1 at 20°C. So, so beautiful.

martin

[helenhill]

TriX + Rodinal 1:50 ----> A Manly Man's film/developer combination ;)
with a Touch of Girliness....:p
since I like it Too

for street Grittiness /tres atmosphere neopan 1600 & rodinal

:)...-Helen

[Fraser]

trix and xtol

[Carlsen Highway]

Does no one use T-max?

(Sudden horrified thought.) They do still make Tmax?

[Florian1234]

Tri-X, what Al said :D

I used Hp5+ (or Adox CHM 400) also for some time, but Tri-X rules... :angel:

[TomN]

pan f with diafine @ asa80 3 minustes a, 3 minutes b. can't beat the convenience, and cost of diafine, and it scans great.

not great for optical prints.

[DerekF]

Nobody else uses Tri-X + dilution H for HC-110? I guess I'll have to try B next time...!

[Chris101]

I use dilution h whenever I start to run low on developer syrup. Or when I am pulling the development.

[SimonSawSunlight]

am I the only one who uses Ilfotec LC29? :D (with Tri-X, Neopan acros/400/1600 and HP5 which is best when pushed a little)

[mfunnell]

Nobody else uses Tri-X + dilution H for HC-110? I guess I'll have to try B next time...!I do, and I like the results.

...Mike

[functus]

I use Ilford Delta 400 with D-76 (I can't afford, or even regularly find other developers here). I don't use Tri-x for one very pedestrian reason; I find that it curls more than the Delta 400 when drying and this makes it more difficult to scan.

[BTMarcais]

Ilford Hp5+ in Kodak Xtol, 1:1

But like Roger and others have said, it's definitely a personal preference.
I used to primarily use Ilford Delta 400, but eventually decided I liked the more traditional grain appearance of Hp5. So not only is it a preference, but one that can change over time.

Try a few, see what suits your look the best. And if you're not quite getting the look you want, see what other photogs are doing to get that same look in their work.

-Brian

[ruby.monkey]

Tri-X in Diafine is fine if you plan to scan from negatives.

[JapanExposures]

Neopan 400 in Xtol 1:1 10min

[Matt(1pt4)]

'Neopan 400 in Xtol 1:1 10min'

Or in stock xtol for 8 minutes. Neopan is cheaper than TriX, easier to scan - less curl - and the film canisters are easier to open too.

[PMCC]

Arista Premium 400 is cheaper than Legacy Pro 400.

[Kin Lau]

Tri-X in Diafine is fine if you plan to scan from negatives.

Or when you're shooting without a meter, or just can't remember what you rated the film at when you shot it... such as when you have a 1 year backlog of film you haven't developed.

Otherwise, I usually soup my Tri-X in HC-110 dilution B.

[Damaso]

Tri-x & D76 straight...

[Samsam]

nothing beats D76 1:1 with Tri-x, it's like a Gibson guitar plugged in a Marshall amplifier, like drinking a coffee and smoking a cigarette.

[emraphoto]

Neopan 400, pushed 1 stop.

D-76

[funkpilz]

I use HP5 in either Ilfosol 3 or Ultrafin normally, but if you want a nice contrasty look, nothing beats HP5 at 1600 in Rodinal 1:100 for 90 minutes stand developed.

[ChrisPlatt]

That depends. Are you a right eye shooter or left eye shooter?

Chris

[boilerdoc2]

HP-5 at 1600 in Rodinal for 90 minutes! Whew! I'd love to see an image from that combo!
Steve

[Vics]

Tri-x and D76. For street-shooting you need something forgiving of error.
Vic

[eric rose]

sorry boys and girls I have to suggest something different from the great Al. I love using XP2 for street shooting. XP2 is great for skin tones and you get grain in the shadows not in the highlights like regular b&w film. Give it a try, you might like it.

[Mephiloco]

Tri-X and Rodinal is the route I've been going. Good results from ISO 200 up until 6400 for me with Tri-X. Regardless of what lenses/speed I shoot I'm covered with tri-x/arista premium.

[Al Kaplan]

XP2? It doesn't give you the option of easy home development. We still don't know just how archival that black dye might be in fifty years, or one hundred for that matter. All I know is that I threw out an awful lot of C-22 negatives and many of my older C-41 negatives are probably ready for the landfill too. Maybe a pure black image will hold up better than the tri-color dyes. To me it's not worth the risk. Sorry, Eric.

[eric rose]

I understand Al. But I came to the conclusion that once I die no one is really going to want my negs anyway. In a way it just makes the prints I sell today worth more tomorrow.

On the subject of development fortunately my local drug store still does a good job of C41 processing. I suppose once the last 100 foot roll is gone I will switch over to HP5 since that is what I like in LF.

You should give XP2 a shot just to see if the tonality is vastly different and maybe more pleasing than your usual combo. Not saying switch over, just try it for fun.

[hlockwood]

sorry boys and girls I have to suggest something different from the great Al. I love using XP2 for street shooting. XP2 is great for skin tones and you get grain in the shadows not in the highlights like regular b&w film. Give it a try, you might like it.

So that you're not lonely, I second that.

Harry

[wakarimasen]

Does no one use T-max?

(Sudden horrified thought.) They do still make Tmax?

Me! Mainly because it came in a 'developing kit' that I bought on ebay last year. Now it's coming to an end and I'm shopping for a new one though. Perhaps I'll try D76; £6.86 for the powder pack that makes 3.8 litres!

Best regards,
RoyM

[Brian Legge]

I'm still looking for a film/developer pair that:

- Has good shadow detail at 400 or higher
- Is less expensive per roll than DD-X

I've been using primarily tri-x and hp5+ in HC110. I've been getting a lower effective film speed with the hp5 over all. For those who have shot a bunch of combos, any in particular that seemed to have a higher exposure index for you?

Our dark, cloudy days in Seattle make 400 speed film feel rather slow as it is.

Edit: I've used DD-X and liked the results with it, but it is on the expensive side to use as my base line developer. I have a pack of XTOL I plan on trying once I get though either my DD-X or HC110.

[sojournerphoto]

I'm still looking for a film/developer pair that:

- Has good shadow detail at 400 or higher
- Is less expensive per roll than DD-X

I've been using primarily tri-x and hp5+ in HC110. I've been getting a lower effective film speed with the hp5 over all. For those who have shot a bunch of combos, any in particular that seemed to have a higher exposure index for you?

Our dark, cloudy days in Seattle make 400 speed film feel rather slow as it is.

Edit: I've used DD-X and liked the results with it, but it is on the expensive side to use as my base line developer. I have a pack of XTOL I plan on trying once I get though either my DD-X or HC110.


I'd go with either HP5+ at iso 800 in xtol 1+1 or TMY-2 in xtol 1_1 or 1+2 for a cleaner and smoother look.

Mike

[nightfly]

1:25 if you want some real grain/contrast

TriX + Rodinal 1:50 ----> A Manly Man's film/developer combination ;)

[f16sunshine]

It's fun to see these old threads resurected :)

My combo is Tmax-2 400 and Tmax Developer. Through trial I've learned well enough for my own satisfaction to overexpose and under-develop (mostly through low agitation) this combo for a good DR and a sharp clean look that is grainy but not gritty. It's the combo that I trust myself with for now. Caviot being ....... I like T-grain films. It seems others do not prefer them.

[wintershrooms]

I love Tri-X in D76 1:1 but I don't reuse my working solution, so I run out fairly quickly. Do you all reuse your D76?

Because I run out of D76 so quickly whenever I do use it, I end up using HC-110 dilution B or Rodinal 1+50 (occasionally 1+100 stand) more often. I get great tones from both, more grain and contrast with Rodinal. I usually push (to 1600) with Rodinal.

[Nomad Z]

Anyone got any thoughts on Rollei Retro 400S in HC-110?

[sem]

I like Tmax 400 @ 320 in Finol.
But Trix in Xtol 1:1 mixed with Rodinal 1:100 quite sharp and rich in tonal
Best regards
sem

[Mephiloco]

Arista Premium+Rodinal. Cheapest combo there is, and very very versatile. You can pull it down to 100 (probably further) and push to 12800 and further. D76 is also pretty good.

[nektar]

I just discovered Neopan 400 in Xtol 1+1 at 400 or even more beautiful at 1600. Simply gorgeous. Now I just need it back in 120. :bang:

[tlitody]

you will always get conflicting answers because the result is always subjective. Some like it coarse and grainy, some medium and some like very fine grain and smooth. Some lik high contrast, some normal and some low contrast. So which do you prefer.
The question you should have asked is: Which film+developer combo gives me a certain look and posted a link to an example you have seen. Then you would get answers specific to your aims and not just everyones personal favourites which really means nothiing except to to them unless you have seen their work and like the look of it.

[Haigh]

Tri-X in either D76 or Rodinal.

[wakarimasen]

Has anyone used RO9 One Shot?
http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/agfa-rodinalro9-500ml-758-p.asp
No link: it's probably the closest place to me that sells developer, or so I just discovered!

Best regards,
RoyM

[Colin Corneau]

Can give some love for TMY - beautiful results, I usually use Rodinal but occasionally D-76 too.

Neopan 400 has the loveliest grain and sharpness but as has been said (and is patently obvious), preference is entirely subjective and personal.

[NickTrop]

Tri-X, D76. No need whatsoever to mess with anything else. Peanut butter & jelly, steak and mushrooms, cookies and milk, pork and beans, squid and Clamato, fruitcake and Night Train 20/20...

[sparrow6224]

Night Train is Night Train, I believe; and Mogen David made 20/20, aka "Mad Dog" or "Mad Dog 20/20". And let us not forget Thunderbird. or Xtol and soda.

[sparrow6224]

I would add the late lamented Fujipan 1600 @ 800 in Xtol 1:1 or, equally good, divided D76. Very rich blacks.

[GSNfan]

Agfa APX 400 - pulled to 200 - developed in Rodinal.

I still have some Agfa APX 400 and hoping Adox eventually brings it back this coming spring.

[Harry Lime]

I'm still looking for a film/developer pair that:

- Has good shadow detail at 400 or higher
- Is less expensive per roll than DD-X


I used to shoot Tri-X with DD-X. Great combo, but DD-X is expensive if shoot a lot.

I ended up with:

Tri-X @ 400asa in Barry Thornton's 2-bath or Divided D76 mixed from scratch.
Tri-X @ 1250 in Diafine. A gallon of Diafine can easily handle 50 rolls.

All three developers are dirt cheap and because they are divided developers they are completely idiot proof and produce extremely consistent results.

You can buy chemials here:

http://stores.photoformulary.com/StoreFront.bok

Buy Arista Premium 400 from Freestyle. It's repackaged Tri-X for a fraction of the cost

[taskoni]

XP2? It doesn't give you the option of easy home development. We still don't know just how archival that black dye might be in fifty years, or one hundred for that matter. All I know is that I threw out an awful lot of C-22 negatives and many of my older C-41 negatives are probably ready for the landfill too. Maybe a pure black image will hold up better than the tri-color dyes. To me it's not worth the risk. Sorry, Eric.

Well, here's a shot I took on XP2 right after my camera arrived. I didn't wait and processed it as B&W in Ilfosol 3 (1:9) for 22min @ 20C. Don't mind the crappy bokeh...
Now I do a lot of XP2

Eric +1

Regards,
b.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6052/17601010150103866943588.jpg

[Turtle]

TriX with Xtol 1+1.

D76 or ID11 are kinda similar but will give you 1/3 to 1/2 stop less film speed. Some prefer the look of one over the other but its neither here nor there really.

I love various 400 speed films more than TriX in specific circumstances, but when it comes to one film that really wont let you down, it is TriX. Great at box speed, pushes really well and just bulletproof.

[ailardi]

For last couple of years I have used TMax (TMY-2) in TMax developer; my local camera store stocks TMax, but not Tri-X, so when I started shooting B&W again I tried T-Max. Generally, I set the meters to 320 and reduce the recommnended times by a very small amount -- more habit than because of any scientific testing. I find that TMax pushes well to 1600. In years past I used mostly Tri-X in D-76 (1:1) or HC-110 and for a while Microdo-X(1:3). I keep thinking I will give Tri-X a try again, but each time I look at my prints (all of which today are inkjet) I find I am reasonably happy.

[chrispoole]

HP5+ in XTOL 1+1 at 20°C. So, so beautiful.

martin

agreed!!!!!

[semilog]

I would add the late lamented Fujipan 1600 @ 800 in Xtol 1:1 or, equally good, divided D76. Very rich blacks.

Gorgeous. I've been using exactly that combination a lot lately.

I also like TMY-2 in XTOL 1+1. This is probably my favorite, most suitable for my own work.

HP5 in D-76 is also an old favorite. Will try HP5 in XTOL soon, and am optimistic.

The truth is that any of these setups can work splendidly.

[rogerzilla]

Not Tri-X. I don't think it's any good now; 20 years ago it was all I used.

Neopan 1600 is still freely available in the UK.

[kram]

I use XP2 super in my Minox all the time (my old XP1 negs from 30 years ago, look fine-darn is it really that long:( ) however, I don't like the look of XP2 super it in my Mamiya 7 (weird). I seem to use slower film in my ZI (Delta 100 and Rollei ATP 1.1) so can't really comment on other films.

[Field]

It depends...

Street shooting day time? Night time? Flash? People or scenes? How big are you going to blow up the images?

Things I use...

Ilford: Their different stuff offers a slightly softer look that Kodak's Tmax for example, so it is nice for shooting people. The grain is still good enough to enlarge.

Tmax: is almost annoying in how fine the grain is.... It is ok for people to me if you blow it up large. I also do recommend setting your ASA a little lower unless you are just doing shots of something lacking people in them. I prefer 100 ASA for flash work because it is easier to choose the DOF and amount of fill you want (with my vivitar 283). (actually I prefer it for everything, more in a minute) It might be more accurate for true contrast but the problem is true contrast can be awfully boring. Architecture and space... I wouldn't even consider using something else; it is straight eerie.

Tri-X: I never use it, and here is why...

Fomapan 400: One of my FAVORITE 400 speed films... It is cheap, tears super easy if you wind to hard on what you think might be that extra shot... The grain is very high. Why do I actually like it? For $2.80 a roll I get that grainy look at 400 ASA and can totally avoid higher asa's that are almost impossible to use in daylight.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5303/5661948620_7214d80c58_b.jpg
(Yashica GSN, Fomapan 400)

SO what do I recommend? It depends...

I would not even recommend 400 ASA unless you use slower lenses. I hate not being able to control my DOF, I prefer ASA 100 most of time. I am a flash-fill whore though so it never bothers me. Not all of my flash-fill photos come out how I want though.

Decide what you feel your general tendencies are, what your appreciations are... Different films offer different things. After you know what you want them decide on chemicals to best compliment.

[smk]

Tri-X or Neopan 400 in mostly DD-X (fine grain, smooth tones), and sometimes Rodinal (for the Rodinal look).

[Tom A]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5121/5216239602_57004bb4f9_z.jpg

You can't really go wrong with TriX and D76 1:1 for 10 min. I think it is more getting used to a specific film, it's exposure latitude, developing skill etc than which film, which developer. I ended up being a TriX user as that was the film I started with 1957. Could just as well have been Ilford FP3, and later HP 5 and ID 11.
Toronto 1983, Leica M2 and Summicron 35f2 1st version.

[Paul Jenkin]

I spent a week in Marrakesh in July shooting XP2 Super (via a Leica M6TTL) which pretty much sealed it as my favourite 400 ISO mono film.

[Pavel+]

Good to have the usual consensus here! Now that we've solved this question ... which is best the 50 or 35?

[Colin Corneau]

you will always get conflicting answers because the result is always subjective. Some like it coarse and grainy, some medium and some like very fine grain and smooth. Some lik high contrast, some normal and some low contrast. So which do you prefer.
The question you should have asked is: Which film+developer combo gives me a certain look and posted a link to an example you have seen. Then you would get answers specific to your aims and not just everyones personal favourites which really means nothiing except to to them unless you have seen their work and like the look of it.


Exactly. Interspersed, of course, with an avalanche of personal snapshots which is more about a person showing off their images than about actually learning something related to the OP.

[paulfish4570]

tri-x/arista premium 400 and hc-110, dilution h ...

[Peter_S]

Surely there are many answers to this, because - as previously pointed out before - this is subjective.
That said, "allround" for someone who has not found his perfect combination yet and is relatively new to developing, I think easy developing and forgiving characters and the ability to over-/underexpose are something to look for.

There are some classic recommendations and they have shown here too....mainly Kodak Tri-X + HC-110 or D76 and Ilford HP5+ with DD-X or HC-110. I prefer HP5+, but shot at ISO 800, dev. in HC-110. I never warmed up to Tri-X (and it curls, HP5+ dries flat)

For ISO 400 I personally prefer Neopan 400 in DD-X.

In the end you need to try around. "One film one developer" is a nice concept, but finding that "one" is a journey...I gave up on that all together, and have now rather a "one film one developer" for each ISO.
For street (not that I shoot that much anymore) I prefer FP4+ in ID-11 over any ISO400 stuff.

Good luck!
Peter

[Ronny]

Tri-X D76 1:1

[Messsucherkamera]

Tri-X and D-76 at 1:1 dilution.

Amen to that.

I had the good fortune to take a week long workshop with a well known Magnum photographer. During the course of the week, I asked many questions. One was "in your experience, what is the best B&W film for documentary and street photography? "

His reply was direct and unequivocal: Kodak Tri-X is the greatest B&W film of all time."

I cannot disagree with this august gent's assertion.