What`s wrong with "wartime" 1940`s Leica IIIC`s lately? ....Mad Price War at Evilbay!

[LeicaTom]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150367276697&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123

Ok, this doesn`t even make sense?

A 1941 era Luftwaffen camera that was converted to IIIFBD in the early 1950`s, not a common deal, but honestly nothing very special, a camera that well on a good day, should sell for top`s maybe $2,500/$3,000? ~ \
Correct all original chrome Luftwaffen IIIC`s of the same era in good condition normally sell for $4,500 to $5,500.

But, $12,600 for a Conversion?

Something`s not right here, I smell fishes.......first last week a George Carr Restoration sells for over $5k and now this?

Something`s really screwy at evilbay, either that, or there`s some REALLY STUPID people with lot`s of money out there?

I don`t get it, the market`s really not this screwed up, I think that someone`s manipulating the bidding there.....

I mean I like to turn a profit sometimes like any honest dealer/seller should, but I is there really someone out there that would pay $5,000+ for something like a "user" IIIC K Grey?
(I don`t think I would part with mine, even offered that sort of money....I`m sure I would`nt find a camera as colorful and with as much history as it has to take it`s place)


Tom

[Pickett Wilson]

He says it has the less common black shutter curtain. Wouldn't that just mean that the original has simply been replaced? Don't know, which is why I'm asking. I assume some of these originally came with black shutter curtains?

Hard to believe someone paid $12,000 for it.

[LeicaTom]

He says it has the less common black shutter curtain. Wouldn't that just mean that the original has simply been replaced? Don't know, which is why I'm asking. I assume some of these originally came with black shutter curtains?

Hard to believe someone paid $12,000 for it.

Only the FIRST 1,500 or so IIIC`s had Black Curtain`s, so that camera`s way off...... that camera was ORIGINALLY a red curtain camera, it received a NEW curtain anyhow in the early 1950`s when it was "upgraded" ~ note it received the full treatment, IIIF/ flash sync, IIIF shell with vulcanite and IIIF knobs all around, so this was a full factory conversion.

Still worth about $3k tops........something`s really crazy here :eek:

Tom

PS: Pickett, you better hang on to your IIICK/IIIFBD conversion, while it has double history of being a strange conversion and it was also a daily workhorse for me for almost two years....so it`s got a special history, when I become even more famous for my work, then you can sell it for the BIG bucks! ;)

[-doomed-]

This probably appeals to the same people who pay those ridiculous prices from those arsenal dudes. Ya know overpriced central.

[LeicaTom]

This probably appeals to the same people who pay those ridiculous prices from those arsenal dudes. Ya know overpriced central.

Arsenal NEVER sells anything for what they advertise for......all their dealings are done offline and it`s often for prices nowhere near what they post.
(some WW2 era items they still have I saw over 5 years ago, when I started collecting for the second time)

No I think this time`s just hanky panky....we`ll see if the Carr cameras and the Luftwaffen one come BACK onto the market soon, we know it was all just a "DOG & PONY" show :p

Tom

[nikonhswebmaster]

How often do you see the camera with the originally shipped lens?

"It seems you have the lens that originally went with the IIIc. 5cm Elmar 569447 is also listed as Luftw. to Berlin on February 9, 1941 on shipment 25558."

On a number of occasions I have seen collectors pay ridiculous prices for items, especially if they are in a hurry to have a certain piece.

It only seems silly if you are not the seller. :p Often pieces I have followed (even sold myself) are later sold at astounding losses.

[Pickett Wilson]

Tom, the IIIc/k conversion will be buried with me! Love that camera. :)

[Brian Sweeney]

I'll bet the seller never sees the money. The winner had 11 bid retractions in the last 30 days. Smells to me.

[LeicaTom]

How often do you see the camera with the originally shipped lens?



Well, I guess I`m just LUCKY like that....but every single rare WW2 era or postwar era Militray or Grey Leica I`ve owned STILL had/has the original lens on it.....so mostly everything I`ve seen that`s been sold for BIG BUCKS in the past few years, all had the original issued optics on the camera.

Each collector, collects differently, and what`s important to me is.....
*original lens and cases and overall condition, hoping and finding that everything is still togther? ~ most of the gear I`ve found are WW2 era kit`s that were issued together and one person brought then back after the war ~ I also like to try to buy cameras with a "known" owners history from that era and try to also get it documented ~ most collectors don`t care about this, but for me it adds even more value to the cameras, especially when it has a German or a US Army history*

I`ve seen some crazy stuff in the time`s I`ve been collecting, but 3/4 of the time, when stuff is dealt rapidly between collectors, there`s significant losses in price, only just when the gear STAYS in collections for years and years, does anyone see a raise in prices.

Just in the last 3 years, I`ve seen the prices of Grey K camera`s go up and down at least 5 times, I try to find/buy the gear on the downside of the trend and hoping that the condition is the best that can be found, while that`s the issue with most of these cameras in the WW2 era, most are pretty run down and beaten up, decent survivors are a rarity nowadays.

Tom

[LeicaTom]

Tom, the IIIc/k conversion will be buried with me! Love that camera. :)

HAHAHAHAAHAHA there ya go!!!!!!!!!!!

That`s what I`m talking about, that`s passion in Photography!

I think that they will bury my May 45' IIIC K Grey with me too, with the Sonnar T STILL on it :)

Tom

[Al Kaplan]

Here are some prices that I've paid for things: Grey III-ck $40, Leicavit $25, 28/5.6 Summaron with hood, finder and leather cases $50, 50/2.5 Hektor with hood and a few filters $20. You could barely give that crap away back in the sixties. I used it and sold at a good profit perhaps ten years later. I should have hung on to it.

http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com

[chippy]

I'll bet the seller never sees the money. The winner had 11 bid retractions in the last 30 days. Smells to me.

indeed! every item he has won in the past 30days he has retracted his bid, 26 retracted bids in the past six months.. and still has 100% rating! what a joke

i wonder if the nutcase that came in second and bid up to $12500 (must of been drunk:p) will take it for $3800 when offered the second chance offer or whatever that thing ebay allows. if you takeout the bogus winning bidder's bids, then it would not of gone much more than about $2500 most likely

[ZeissFan]

Fools and their money soon go separate ways.

[enasniearth]

sellers can not leave negative feedback about buyers . it was decided that sellers were forceing buyers to keep substandard items by threatening them with negative feedback -- so no more !
it is not posiible for a person that only buys to have less than 100% positive feedback --as neutrals do not count .

to be fair the luftwaffen eigentum markings on camera and lense were intact and nice . the conversion kills the collector value though.

time to list !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr_Flibble]

*note to self, must find out where some burial plots have been reserved for certain forum members, and must invest in a shovel*

Glad I bought my 2 IIIc's on the down-side of things too.

[Dralowid]

It's not just your IIIcs that have gone mad, there are wierd prices out there of FSU cameras, Contax Is and anything Leica that comes along in black.

Maybe the sellers think a new wave of naive buyers ahve suddenly appeared???

And I'm not just referring to the usual culprits (deletes whatever else he was going to write)

[Mark Wood]

Interesting to read that:

"The camera is fully operational with accurate shutter speeds, working self timer and frameline preview."

Hmm....