View Full Version : Sunday Telegraph:loathing of cameras
Michael Markey
08-23-2009, 12:10
This article appeared today in the Sunday Telegraph. It may be of interest. I will try and provide a link www.telegraph.co.uk/nigelfarndale (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/nigelfarndale)
Interesting to hear people's points of view.
My favourite response to the author was: "What a misery guts you turned out to be, Nigel."
Michael Markey
08-23-2009, 12:22
Mine too, Frank. I think that he got more than he expected in the replies.
wgerrard
08-23-2009, 12:31
I've seen the scenario described in the article -- manic shutter clicking -- with both digital and one-use film cameras. It's as if people think good photos happen by random chance, so they just click and click and click.
Many people have never really looked at a good photo, sometimes in the literal sense.
Yammerman
08-23-2009, 12:32
The Telegraph complaining about some aspect of the modern world is really not much of surprise. It is the modern luddite fashion to bemoan all forms of modernism that you do not yourself derive any use from.....mobile phones, sat nav, the internet etc ..... He doesn't mind the cable car that took him above Barcelona I notice. If the worse thing in life we have to worry about is the clicking of camera's I'd settle for that.
Michael Markey
08-23-2009, 12:41
The Telegraph complaining about some aspect of the modern world is really not much of surprise. It is the modern luddite fashion to bemoan all forms of modernism that you do not yourself derive any use from.....mobile phones, sat nav, the internet etc ..... He doesn't mind the cable car that took him above Barcelona I notice. If the worse thing in life we have to worry about is the clicking of camera's I'd settle for that.
Yes, he seems to like old Ansel but I wonder what he`d think if Adams forced his way into the cable car with a stonking big view camera.
Nice reply Yammerman. I wonder if he realised that the cable car has deprived him of the hard work it would take to sweat his way up the mountain which would have engaged him with the mountain and the sights on the way up rather than giving him the ease and time to deride some of his fellow passengers. He should be happy for them. I suppose he should be happy period.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2828709732_caaed309c4_b.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2828709732_caaed309c4_b.jpg)
Bobfrance
08-24-2009, 01:11
Say what you like - the quality of moaning these days is not what it used to be.
I blame electricity. :D
I agree with him, but he does seem to just write, write, write everywhere he goes.
As for Ansel stepping into the cable car with the 5x7 slung over his shoulder, I would be damned thrilled! Just think of the chat we could have about the much-rumoured 8x10 "full frame" sensor coming from the reconstituted Deardorf Corp, along with 8x10 Kodachrome II slated to be launched by the newly reorganized Eastman company, which has just emerged from receivership!
One of the things I love about still photography is that it allows me to both capture an image for review but doesn't take all my time away from experiencing the moment, the way video does. I really dislike taking video. For me, video interferes with my experience of the actual event, while still photography enhances it by compelling me to look and see in a concentrated way.
Al Kaplan
08-24-2009, 05:59
I think that if Zeiss and Schneider used modern glasses and aspheric lens grinding technology for their large format lenses it should be easy enough to print billboards and wraps for full size buses and tractor trailers with the new 4x5 Kodachrome III. The price of elderly 4x5 Crown Graphics and Busch Pressmans will go through the roof. No need for huge digital expensive sensors, and the transparencies would be archival without any effort.
bean_counter
08-24-2009, 06:15
But who will bother to shoot Kodachrome III when the new Kodachroid instant archival film hits the market?
Michael Markey
08-24-2009, 09:48
One of the things I love about still photography is that it allows me to both capture an image for review but doesn't take all my time away from experiencing the moment, the way video does. I really dislike taking video. For me, video interferes with my experience of the actual event, while still photography enhances it by compelling me to look and see in a concentrated way.
So right. I gave up still for ten or more years to do video. Mostly as a result of horses. Needed to capture movement. Started taking video footage at horse trials but looking back I only experienced the event as a black and white live view.Brought it home when a girlfriend said ,after one weekend event, "didn`t see much of that did you".
bmattock
08-24-2009, 10:16
Once again, I can only stare agog at those who propose to tell others how many photographs they are allowed to take, and when, and of what.
My reply to such people generally consists of two words, and can be illustrated with a single finger.
The author begins from a conclusion, and then fabricates a series of logical fallacies to support that phony hypothesis.
To wit:
His was a digital camera, so he no doubt figured he wasn't wasting film, and he probably knew he would never get round to looking at his photographs anyway, let alone deleting those frames he didn't want.
The author presumes to know what the tourist / photographer was thinking. He further proposes that the resulting images would never be looked at anyway. And he knows this because?
It's pure fantasy. It might be true, and it equally well might not.
One also feels compelled to ask - what particular business it is of the author what other people do with their cameras?
As I watched him, it struck me that photography, once a noble art, has become, thanks to the move to digital, a mental illness.
The author follows on with the usual insulting statement, which is sadly quite typical of the Luddite, as he has now revealed himself to be. Gratuitous and without logical basis. Fortunately, I can be far more insulting and rude that he can.
Our first instinct when confronted with the sublime in nature, or the frozen music of architecture, or a tender moment with a friend, is not to contemplate it, but to reach for our cameras so that we can experience it later, second-hand – or, more likely, ignore it later, because we are too busy taking the next pointless photograph in order to have a pointless record of everything we ever saw, or would have seen, had we not been taking a photograph of it.
Once again, the presumptions as to what use others will put to the photographs they have taken, or the lack of appreciation on the photographer's part. And how does the author know that the tourist / photographer had not already been on this particular trip and seen the views, or that he or she could not possibly appreciate said views without putting the camera down? Perhaps he has telepathy.
I found the article to be idiotic and based upon presuppositions that are not true - with the possible exception of the photographers who persisted in taking flash photos where told not to. This is a valid criticism, but it is down to rudeness and inconsideration for others, not photography. The same people feed the zoo animals, touch the wet paint, and cut in queues. Rudeness is not limited to those who take 'too many photographs',
but can also be found in those who propose to tell others how many photographs they ought properly to take.
Right on, Bill. Please post this as a response on that article's website.
chris00nj
08-24-2009, 10:24
So right. I gave up still for ten or more years to do video. Mostly as a result of horses. Needed to capture movement. Started taking video footage at horse trials but looking back I only experienced the event as a black and white live view.Brought it home when a girlfriend said ,after one weekend event, "didn`t see much of that did you".
I enjoyed the comment: "Of course its annoying to have some jerk (usual and Japanese or an American) wielding a video cmaera as if it's line of sight is a laser beam one must never break...."
I always carry a camera with me. Its become a habit as I love photography. Its becoming more and more common for people to question why I do this - usually in a disapproving manner. Last week I was shooting a sculpture in a public place and had some interfering old biddie demand to know what I was photographing and why. At first I took it for genuine interest before I realised it was instead genuine hostility. A couple of weeks ago I had a run in with some half wit who told me it was illegal to take photos in public places. I told him "maybe one day but not yet, so F off and mind your own business." I am afraid my attitude is hardening as much as theirs.
Al Kaplan
08-24-2009, 12:45
I have my phone programed for the local police, not just the emergency 911 number. When that happens I offer them the phone and tell them to call the police and have me arrested if they think that I'm breaking the law. They don't.
Michael Markey
08-24-2009, 12:49
Sounds to me that you are advocating some sort of democracy there ,Bill. I think that the author (whose stuff I usually like) leans more to the Voltaire persuasion judging by his views in this matter.
bmattock
08-24-2009, 12:58
Sounds to me that you are advocating some sort of democracy there ,Bill. I think that the author (whose stuff I usually like) leans more to the Voltaire persuasion judging by his views in this matter.
I don't understand what you're saying.
Voltaire was an advocate for freedom of expression. This fellow is complaining that someone else is expressing himself 'too much'.
I have no idea what you mean by me advocating "some sort of democracy." I actually suggest that the author ought to stick to his knitting and let others take as many photographs as they feel appropriate.
Brian Sweeney
08-24-2009, 12:59
This guy must have seen me at Disneyworld. Went through 17 rolls.
I'll have to post my Small, Small World tour.
What a great Tune.
Michael Markey
08-24-2009, 13:14
I stand corrected ,Bill. It was Wilde and his view on democracy. (Having a senior moment there)."The bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people"was his view.I always understood that to mean that he thought that there should be limits to feedom of expresion as indeed does Mr Farndale apparently.So do others as far as photography is concerned if subsequent posts are anything to go by.
bmattock
08-24-2009, 13:39
I stand corrected ,Bill. It was Wilde and his view on democracy. (Having a senior moment there)."The bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people"was his view.I always understood that to mean that he thought that there should be limits to feedom of expresion as indeed does Mr Farndale apparently.So do others as far as photography is concerned if subsequent posts are anything to go by.
Now I understand, thank you.
As photographers, who by some lights are artists and indeed claim that mantle, one might suspect that we'd be accepting of each other's attempts to make photographs. But no, we are not. We instead insist on strict adherence to a pack mentality that proclaims which lens, camera, and film to use, and heaps scorn on those who refuse to play follow the leader.
I do not know (nor do I care) what the author's proclivities might be with regard to photography, but I clearly understand that his article is not anti-photography, but anti-digital photography. This is common amongst the intelligentsia these days. It is very fashionable to dislike all things digital, and to invent a plethora of reasons why digital photography is straight from the devil's bottom.
Digital belongs to the hoi polloi, it seems, and is as such base and loathsome. The digital happy snapper is uncouth and uncivilized; why, he might as well be punching widows and orphans in the mouth and tipping over trash cans like football hooligans.
One grows tired of the endless anti-digital screeds, on RFF and elsewhere. I do take some comfort in the knowledge that this too shall pass - the Luddites are destined for Florida and Arizona, and I'll buy the best of their stuff for pennies on eBay, which I'll use to supplement my digital equipment as desired. Because although I am of the (tail end) of their generation, I managed to figure out 'Pong' and everything that came afterwards, and as such live in the modern world. I use the best film and digital have to offer me and do not insist that one must be bad because I cannot master it. It is well that the wrinklies are headed for the scrap heap, and the sooner the better. May their VCR's blink "12:00" gently in the twilight of their years.
I'm with Bill on this one. Let 'em click... but do yourself a favor people: print some and please EDIT before showing those slideshows to your friends! ;)
As far as I'm concerned, I think I need to press that shutter more and more often. So, as Peter said, I try to take a camera with me as much as I can.
On the other hand, I know I have this tendency to act like a spectator and holding a camera doesn't help :) So, when I'm with my kids or friends, I try to put my camera down to live that moment with them. But then again, I love candids! :bang:
Paradoxical? Aren't we all?
When I grow up I want to be able to multitask... :D
bmattock
08-24-2009, 13:48
I'm with Bill on this one. Let 'em click... but do yourself a favor people: print some and please EDIT before showing those slideshows to your friends! ;)
The problem with having poets as friends is that they insist on reading it to you...
As far as I'm concerned, I think I need to press that shutter more and more often. So, as Peter said, I try to take a camera with me as much as I can.
I also try to have a camera with me wherever I go, or at least nearby.
And I've done that (with large gaps of a decade or so here and there) since high school. In the military, I carried a Pentax Auto 110 in my cargo pocket everywhere we went. Many people complained that I was 'aways taking pictures', but when I showed around the prints, everyone wanted 'a copy for my mom'. Not because they were good, but because they were remembrances in time.
On the other hand, I know I have this tendency to act like a spectator and holding a camera doesn't help :) So, when I'm with my kids or friends, I try to put my camera down to live that moment with them. But then again, I love candids! :bang:
From time to time, I suggest to my wife that we go somewhere and do something 'as spectators' and I leave the camera behind. She's very tolerant of me whether I bring a camera or not, though.
Paradoxical? Aren't we all?
I certainly hope so!
When I grow up I want to be able to multitask... :D
I just want not to grow up.
Michael Markey
08-24-2009, 14:00
Bill, You really should take this show on the road. I`ll be your manager. How does 10% sound. But what would we call it ?
Woah, multiquote... I really got to learn how to do that! For now, cut and paste will do.
The problem with having poets as friends is that they insist on reading it to you...
:D I KNOW some of my friends think I'm a "poet". But I don't force them... They can go and see on the Internet.
Many people complained that I was 'aways taking pictures', but when I showed around the prints, everyone wanted 'a copy for my mom'. Not because they were good, but because they were remembrances in time.
Yep, same here. Except mine are actually good... ;)
From time to time, I suggest to my wife that we go somewhere and do something 'as spectators' and I leave the camera behind. She's very tolerant of me whether I bring a camera or not, though.
:D Should try that.
I certainly hope so!
Yes, but that confuses a lot of people who don't like to be confused. There's nothing like predictability and certainty. "Hey, where's your camera?" ;)
Tuolumne
08-24-2009, 15:02
One of the things I love about still photography is that it allows me to both capture an image for review but doesn't take all my time away from experiencing the moment, the way video does. I really dislike taking video. For me, video interferes with my experience of the actual event, while still photography enhances it by compelling me to look and see in a concentrated way.
I second this. Photography is a way of experiencing the world. That said, it can be overdone. But there are lots of ways to be rude in public, including talking on the mobile whilst in the cable car, which is far worse.
/T
Silva Lining
08-24-2009, 15:32
Well, as Satre said,
'L'enfer, c'est les autres'
It's not known whether he was in a cable car or in the vacinitiy of a photogapher at the time.
When I first read the article, I thought the guy was a pompous arse (ass)....but, Ya know, sometimes journalists get stuck for a piece, but they gotta pay the rent like everyone else, so we end up with a tirade of ineptitude such as this article.
If photography is a mental illness, then I'm as mad as a sack of otters... :)
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