Identify a Barnack

[dovevadar]

Hey guys, I'm no expert with LTM lenses and screw mount bodies but had some interests lately and gotten myself a nice brassed Leica iii black paint with summar lens (original kit lens I assume from the state). Yes it is the one with slower shutter speed dial on the front...

The thing is, I cant really find alot of information on the iii those online are mostly on iiif (chrome). What is the difference between the 2?

I also understand from my Leica collectors book that the difference between ii and iii is the slower speed dial in front. ii and iid models came with Elmar lenses never a summar and the iiif comes with summitar right? What is unique factor of a iii body? Is it a transitional model only?

Next, the engraving of "DRP" on the top plate. Mine is located right below the "LEICA" word but above "Ernst Leitz Wetzlar" but I have seen some black bodies (not sure if its ii or iii) with the "DRP" right at the bottom below everything else. Why is this so?

Lastly, my number reads: 63957. Any idea which year does it belongs to?

It is tiny and heavy. a real beauty... more intriguing than my mp for sure and focusing is a bitch but fun. A very interesting Leica!

[Vince Lupo]

Serial number? Photo?

[Blank288]

Lastly, my number reads: 63957. Any idea which year does it belongs to?


Really such a low number? According to the Leica Pocket Book tables it should be a Leica I from 1931. Maybe it is converted later to III specs?

[dovevadar]

63957

I dont have my digital camera with me. but will post image soon.

Serial number? Photo?

[dovevadar]

Hey, I managed to take a picture of it:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2646/3839499618_b7f5405ec4_o.jpg

[dovevadar]

Really such a low number? According to the Leica Pocket Book tables it should be a Leica I from 1931. Maybe it is converted later to III specs?

hmm interesting... such convertion... is it possible? This fellow spots a rangefinder more iid than anything. wow.. now im set to find out about this piece of history. Anyone can help? Im intrigued the more I look at it

[Dralowid]

What you have is a nice I to III factory conversion most likely done before the war. The knobs look nickel rather than chrome. Not particularly rare but interesting none the less. Look at the 'Show us your conversion...' thread on this forum.

Shutter release collar looks post war.

Once interchangeable lenses had been standardised, cameras could be ordered with any lens. Nice to see the black cap on the Summar. Two questions, is the Summar nickel or chrome and if nickel does it have a black rim or a polished rim?

Michael

[dovevadar]

What you have is a nice I to III factory conversion most likely done before the war. The knobs look nickel rather than chrome. Not particularly rare but interesting none the less. Look at the 'Show us your conversion...' thread on this forum.

Shutter release collar looks post war.

Once interchangeable lenses had been standardised, cameras could be ordered with any lens. Nice to see the black cap on the Summar. Two questions, is the Summar nickel or chrome and if nickel does it have a black rim or a polished rim?

Michael

Thanks for the info Michael. The summar is nickel with a polished rim. what difference is that?

[David Hughes]

Hi,

If 1931 then the rewind knob will extend or lift up by about ¼" to ½" if not, then 1930.

The standard could be converted to a III (slow speeds only added) or a IIIa (slow speeds added and top speed now 1/1000th second). Here's a poor scan of a page from Leitz's London sales brochure showing the services available and the prices for factory conversion.

http://idrh.smugmug.com/photos/479305669_gT6bg-L.jpg

The prices are in pounds, shillings and pence and so 13. 11. 0 means £13-11/- or 13 pounds and 11 shillings. (That's £13-65 decimalised. ) Upgrading in line with the retail price index I get £626 + (using the calculator on measuringworth.com ).

My copy of the Leitz NY one doesn't show this service.

Hope this helps.

Regards, David

[Dralowid]

David,

It must also be possible to date by the shape of the viewfinder 'frame'. This camera has the later shape similar to IIIb etc whereas a III has the 'bump' with the adjustment screw in it.

To be honest I am getting a bit confused now...

Dovevadar,

The nickel Summar is noticeably rarer than the chrome version though I doubt this makes too much difference to its value.

Michael

[David Hughes]

David,

It must also be possible to date by the shape of the viewfinder 'frame'. This camera has the later shape similar to IIIb etc whereas a III has the 'bump' with the adjustment screw in it.

To be honest I am getting a bit confused now...

I can't answer that one but don't forget that conversions were new parts added to old cameras, rather than what I'd call a conversion. And, of course, if it was ever traded in (quite likely given it's age), a wicked dealer may have married the body with another lens. Sellers on ebay aren't the only ones. I've magazines from the 20's and 30's and they were all doing it then.

Edit: And we don't know the lens number.

Regards, David

[dovevadar]

Im always very impressed with the knowledgeable people here. Thanks for the info guys.

David:: the speed knob can be lifted up. and the summar lens no reads: " 216401"... Looks like it belongs to the 1935 batch of Summar?

so now I know that this fellow is a 1931 Leica i... hmmm.. getting interesting..

[David Hughes]

Perhaps, I wouldn't dig too deeply (I don't want to go blind). Just enjoy the thing and put some film in it.

Regards, David

[Vince Lupo]

Don't want to sound like an expert, but I'd suspect that a Leica I standard C (which is what this originally started out as being) would be less common if it weren't converted. That was such a short lived model (only made in 1931), that I'm sure that many of them were upgraded to Leica II's and III's due to their new features (slow speeds, built-in coupled rangefinder etc).

Those knobs look rather silver to me, and I'd suspect they'd be chrome rather than nickel, but could just be my eyes. Perfect one to use, either way!