View Full Version : Teaching help requested
After months of dating, my girlfriend sent me the following mail:
"Philと一緒にいたら美穂もカメラがんばりたくなる.
美穂もいいカメラほしくなってきた:D"
Basically, 'if we're going to be to together, I want to try to improve at photography... I think I want a new camera..."
She's been using point and click digital for all her life. For a trip to the Japanese Alps next week, I want to set her on a learning course that's instructive but not too intimidating.
I can lend her one of two cameras as 'hers' for the trip: Canon P or a barnack-styled Leotax. In LTM, I can lend her one or more of:
50/2 lenses (Japanese and Russian)
35/2 canon
28/1.9 CV
100/3.5 Canon
My thinking is this:
Leotax + 50/2 Topcor & meter + Fuji 400 = simple
My reasoning is this:
- less cluttered finder
- focal length that forces her to compose
- lens that's not strictly for bokeh
Reservations:
- squinty (and separate) finder doesn't give comparison to other focal lengths
- max shutter of 500 (vs 1000)
Frankly, the meter is my biggest concern, but we'll shoot together, so maybe it's ok. Is my plan ridiculous? Advice?
Chriscrawfordphoto
08-06-2009, 22:38
I taught two of my ex-girlfriends photography with film. A meterless rangefinder will frustrate her, especially something with such a squinty finder as a barnack type camera. My last GF I taught with an Olympus OM-4T SLR and she picked it up fast but I still had to shoot with her for several weeks before she really could work alone. Get her a digital SLR or a 35mm SLR with a good metering system.
if you are limited to those two camera, i would hands down choose the canon P. framelines for one are there and using the finders on bannack style cameras is better in bright light and not so good indoors, it is frustrating and defeats one the of advantages of using a rangefinder IMO, indoor and low light use.
it depends on how she will like or want to get by without having a meter, i didnt give my daughter a light meter for nearly two years and she learnt and got by guessing, pinching readings from me and basically learning EV values..now she has a small VC lightmeter and that makes life simple for her, although she also uses some manual SLR now that have built in meters that she likes but she still doesnt mind using the old cameras without light meters.......overall though i am sure as Chris mentions many people might find it frustrating not having a meter
out of those you mention, no question i would choose the canon P
Al Kaplan
08-06-2009, 23:28
Considering the one week time constraint, whatever you decide on, take the digital point and shoot also.
jonmanjiro
08-06-2009, 23:36
「美穂もいいカメラほしくなってきた」
Dude, reading between the line here → Miho wants YOU to buy her a new camera ;)
BTW what is it with Japanese girls referring to themselves in the 3rd person? (no need to answer that, its just a retorical question:rolleyes:)
Anyway, my advise is keep it simple and user friendly! My GF bought a D70 with kit lens so she could come along on photography trips, but it ended up being too heavy for her. She much prefers the FM3A and 45mmP setup I got her :)
historicist
08-07-2009, 00:05
Yeah, that sounds like 'buy me a camera' to me as well ;)
Canon P and a 50 would be my choice, and just let her get on with it and learn for herself.
Sounds like a request for a personal camera to me too, not just a short loan. I'd be tempted to find something with manual and aperture priority, manual-focus and a 50mm lens. Given the obvious cost constraints for a rangefinder having AP (assuming you are not a millionaire), then this suggests an old-ish SLR. Stick with film though !
「美穂もいいカメラほしくなってきた」
Dude, reading between the line here → Miho wants YOU to buy her a new camera ;)
Oh, I know. The issue is that I am not yet sure what will suit her. I believe she has a Sony DSC-T100 now. She seems most disappointed with its low-light performance. Example: fireworks - I lend her my tripod, but the camera has no cable release and using self-timer doesn't really cut it in that situation. She also seems concerned about bokeh and detail, which she finds lacking in her shots.
Anyhow, the upshot is that I know I can find decent RF equipment that gives her the control of aperture / cable-release / tripod socket / she needs and the quality of lens she wants. I know it *can* give her the results she wants at night (someday). Before I drop $$, I want to know if an RF even suits her.
Maybe I should consider a FLRF in 40mm.
nikonhswebmaster
08-07-2009, 03:06
Anyhow, the upshot is that I know I can find decent RF equipment that gives her the control of aperture / cable-release / tripod socket / she needs and the quality of lens she wants. I know it *can* give her the results she wants at night (someday). Before I drop $$, I want to know if an RF even suits her.
You are young (sorry)? As Jon says she does not want to learn about f-stops, she wants to learn about photography and you. Buy her a nice Lumix LX-3 or a Canon G-10. Or if you can spring for it an Olympus EP-1.
I think we need to see a picture of her before we can help you decide.
;)
It's Friday night and my request for camera advice has evolved into a dating helpline. I'm not that young, but apparently, I'm that naive.
Okay seriously, of the 2 cameras, go with the Canon P just because the viewfinder is larger and clearer (less squinty). The controls are very simple.
buy her a Nikon D40 with kit lens (or the D60, or whatever it is they just came out with in that price range) which is a lot lighter than the D70.
Or what nikonwebmaster says.
nikonhswebmaster
08-07-2009, 05:26
It's Friday night and my request for camera advice has evolved into a dating helpline. I'm not that young, but apparently, I'm that naive.
Well young is relative, but ALL men are naive when it comes to what women are actually saying. 40+ years (me 60+) and it has become more confusing. ;)
But I would not trade my confusion in for anything.
Al Kaplan
08-07-2009, 05:35
Find yourself a twenty year old girlfriend. They learn more easily at that age.
nikonhswebmaster
08-07-2009, 05:45
Find yourself a twenty year old girlfriend. They learn more easily at that age.
60 year old men just think that, because 60 year old men behave so utterly stupidly around them. :cool:
Al Kaplan
08-07-2009, 06:07
I've noticed that some older men do act stupid at times. A couple of years ago I had to stop seeing a 24 year old because her dad didn't like the fact that I was seven years older than he was, and he was paying for her car and apartment, but I agree. He was acting stupid. Now I'm seeing a 43 year old :D
If she wants to improve she needs to study. Either with classes or a private instructor like myself or some of the other people here at RFF. A very few over a long time can study and improve on their own. Most people just end up hitting a wall and not making progress on their own beyond that. Gear will make a difference but only so much...
historicist
08-07-2009, 06:31
A couple of years ago I had to stop seeing a 24 year old
You player you ;)
Anyway, just to continue to off topic advice, I'd go for a fancy point and shoot, like a Contax TVS or Fuji Klasse for that winning combination of manly aperture control, feminine style and cheapness.
Yeah, I'm wondering if a full-on manual RF camera is the right call too. On the other hand, it would certainly test her level of commitment.
60 year old men just think that, because 60 year old men behave so utterly stupidly around them. :cool:
It's called, "charm", though they might call it "quaint", if you are lucky. ;-)
Having experience buying cameras for women, (cleaning throat to gather intelligent reflection) --
Something like an FM 10, or its ilk-- with the option of her developing her likes, dislikes and tastes in terms of gear, plus she will not at all be limited in what she is able to capture. Nice, light, simple enough, good enough, new enough to be reliable, and if you are lucky, low cost enough. Also, it will probably be worth what you paid for it, perhaps forever.
I started out with an SLR for Zu, and well, she now has an N90 system, Contax G1 and G2, Graflex 4x5" and 6x9cm, Mamiya 645's, with an option on Hasselblads, Bessa R system, --- and others when she returns from Cambodia. Photos of her and taken with her are in my gallery, and she has a fresh BA in photography. Her most recent hint was she wanted to learn more about Leica. ;-)
All in good hands.
Regards, John
I've noticed that some older men do act stupid at times. A couple of years ago I had to stop seeing a 24 year old because her dad didn't like the fact that I was seven years older than he was, and he was paying for her car and apartment, but I agree. He was acting stupid. Now I'm seeing a 43 year old :D
Always date a woman whose age you can bet on in Roulette, at least in one case you have a chance of winning. ;-)
Ten years ago 22 came up for both of us, but she is European. ;-)
I have learned a lot in the last 24 hours. :-D Additionally, I considered my camera conundrum.
1] FLRF - good for night, good for fireworks, no user feedback, no zoom, cheap
2] DSLR - So-so for night, good for fireworks, good feedback, zoomiezoom
3] SLR (Pen?) - same as above but no feedback
4] Micro4/3 - same as DSLR with potential for better lenses at a better size.
I'm going to lend her my DSLR until I can find her something suitably small like a Panny G1. [I'll still offer the P and film options to test the kind of woman she is. :-} ]
I suspect I fall into that class of men who try to give women what they need at the expense of what they want, so your help has been invaluable.
Well, she sat through the plusses and minus of what to get and seemed content with my 4/3, but not just yet advice. She definatively stated that she wants manual focus and wants to give the P a shot on vacation. I told her to bring her standard digicam along and if it becomes a pain, no loss, no gain.
Tonight, I left my camera at home and shepherded her through fireworks on the 20D. I'll bet these will be the best shots she's achieved, and only for lack of appropriate equipment. Henceforth, I'm just going to give her free roam to tell me what she wants to try. For now, I sent the DSLR home with her and the recommendation to just play around and have fun.
Again, advice appreciated. Now to rest my feet, put away the geta, and dry the sweat from my yukata.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.