Film cutting nightmare

[MarkoKovacevic]

I cut a roll of color film for my Leica iiia, and I didn't put a curve in it as it goes up to full width [you know what I mean?] and just did it square.
Well it got caught on something in the camera and my whole roll ended up in half, lengthwise.

Remember to make the cuts smooth!

[Ducky]

I've had film do odd things in my bottom loaders but it usually get stuck within a frame or two. I'd love to see a pix of what you unrolled.

[MarkoKovacevic]

ah, the lab threw it out :(

[benmacphoto]

I tried cutting the leader once and ended up with a jam. Since then I have not cut the film for my IIIa or IIIc and haven't had a problem.

[Rob-F]

cutting a square corner into the film must have created a weak place where a tear could get started. A point to remember for those of us who number Barnacks among our gear!

[maddoc]

Oh yes .... cutting through a sprocket hole or a square into the film leader can cause trouble. I had it happen a couple of times, when my IIIf was new for me. :o

[Steve M.]

I always cut mine, but maybe I'll try not cutting it next time and see how it goes. All I know is that some cameras are fussier than others on this area.

[Al Kaplan]

It doesn't have to be precise but I cut mine longer than current factory loads. They're about the length they used to be years ago, and I cut them with the same (or close to it) curves as factory loads. Both Leitz and Spiratone used to make metal cutting guides so you could trim the film with a knife. The Leitz ones are now pricey!

[Stanton]

I bought a "Made in China" copy of the Leica cutting template on eBay. Price was very reasonable -- I can't recall exactly -- probably aabout $15. I cut several rolls at a time with a knife or single edge razor blade. Have had no problems since I have been using it, provided that I check the loading by tightening up the rewind knob after advancing two frames or so.
Dave

[colyn]

Here's a good example of how you should cut the film. I've done it for years without any jams/problems..

72110

[MarkoKovacevic]

Here's a good example of how you should cut the film. I've done it for years without any jams/problems..

72110

Really, you cut it that thick?

[Luddite Frank]

I extend the factory-cut tab to about 2x its original legnth (index finger to pinky where they meet the palm).

I bought a good pair of curved cuticle scissors at the drugstore expressly for trimming leader for the LTM. Works well.

I buy my film in four-packs, so I do four rolls at one sitting.

I have also tried loading with the film just as it comes from the mfr ("short leader") , but I have to remove the lens, set the shutter open on "Z", and ease the film up past the top edge of the gate from the lens side...

In any case, after winding about 1/2 wrap onto the take-up spool, I tighten the re-wind knob, and make sure the film has engaged the sprocket teeth.

I had a similar "film-split" disaster with a "new" black III... 1/2 of the split wound-up getting rolled into the shutter-blind on the advance-knob side, with film chips jamming the gears in the bottom of the shutter crate. :confused: :eek: :mad:

This required my first (and so far, only ) adventure into taking-apart a Barnack camera... patient and doctor both survived the proceedure ! :cool:

Have had dozens of trouble-free bottom loads since then.

Good luck !

[MarkoKovacevic]

I haven't had any problems bottom loading, besides this one! I have one of those tiny swiss army knives, the one with the knife,scissors,nailfile, and tweezers/toothpick. I keep it in my wallets coin pocket in case I buy film and need to cut it, and I just count 22 holes to where I'm supposed to cut.

[MartinP]

I bought a good pair of curved cuticle scissors at the drugstore expressly for trimming leader for the LTM. Works well.

That's an interesting coincidence as I use the same sort of scissors. Small and curved, ideal for the job - in the UK (I am english) they are usually called nail-scissors. Fold a bit of cardboard in half, put the scissors inside with an elastic band round and it gets shoved in the bottom of the bag, without impaling anything.

So far as length goes, I count 19 perforations or just estimate based on the length of the shutter-crate. Basically, all curvey and slopey, without going through the middle of a perforation, and the film should not get caught up on the pressure-plate or the side of the shutter-crate. The tip about using the rewind to tighten the film as soon as it is in the camera is good, as this means that the rotating rewind knob can confirm everything is running smoothly when you wind-on.

[Mablo]

Mental note to self: buy a pair of nail-scissors. Thanks for the tip.

[bean_counter]

Touring NYC a couple of years ago w/ a pair of IIIf's was a pain, because the security check people were always wanting to confiscate my Leatherman tool - I didn't even attempt to take a pocket knife.

That was my last all-Barnack vacation. Too much hassle, it convinced my wife I really DID need an M. :D

[MartinP]

If one was only using Barnacks then it would have been handy to trim the leaders on the day's film while back at the hotel ?
;)

[K5HJ]

For my IIIf I don't trim at all. In fact when I use a reloaded cassette, I leave the film squared off straight. The only time I cut an "tongue" on the leader is for take-up spools that have a narrow slot.

If you open the shutter, by using the "T" shutter setting, you have access to the film and you can slide it into place. It's almost as easy as loading an M.

You just have to make sure the film is aligned on the sprocket.

[bean_counter]

If one was only using Barnacks then it would have been handy to trim the leaders on the day's film while back at the hotel ?
;)

Three of us were shooting film, so just I trimmed as needed. My reloadable Leica cassettes (FILCA?) were all pre-trimmed, but one of my IIIf's likes to "hold on" to those, and I need the small pliers to coax it out.

I actually had one old-timer security guard who remembered the cassettes; I let him handle the IIIf and reminisce, and he let me through with the Leatherman.

[aperture64]

I have never cut the film for a Leica screwmount. Take your time and you won't have to.

[colyn]

Really, you cut it that thick?

For me it makes loading fast and easy and I have never had torn sprocket holes..

You hold the spool in one hand the cassette in the other and feed the leader into the spool slot then drop them into their respective chambers place the bottom in place and start winding..

[brachal]

I'm always amazed by the number of people who think it's easier to remove the lens, hold the shutter open, sometimes stuff a card into the back of the camera, and then wiggle the film into position. I trim all of my leaders, and have never had a problem loading the camera the way its designer intended. If you need a template, you can buy one on ebay or make a guide yourself with a piece of cardboard. A template isn't necessary though.

[peterm1]

I have had much the same happen to me when I neglectfully cut thru one of the film sprocket holes. The film tore at that point - any square corner is a weak spot is what I take from this experience. So- also avoid cutting thru a hole and always curve the "bend" where the "thin bit joins the fat bit!"

I do not however bother with a template - I have done it so many times now that I can almost make the cut with my eyes closed.

[Vince Lupo]

I'm always amazed by the number of people who think it's easier to remove the lens, hold the shutter open, sometimes stuff a card into the back of the camera, and then wiggle the film into position. I trim all of my leaders, and have never had a problem loading the camera the way its designer intended. If you need a template, you can buy one on ebay or make a guide yourself with a piece of cardboard. A template isn't necessary though.

Well, I suppose it's all in what you're used to doing. I've been doing the 'set the shutter on 'T', remove the lens' routine for about 26 years (I don't use a card though, just my finger) and it's never been a problem. Of course, if you're trying to do it on the fly, it can be a bit precarious juggling a lens, baseplate, camera and film without dropping anything, but I've never had that happen either. I'd personally find the leader cutting a bit of an annoyance, but that's just me.

[ZorkiKat]

Marko, see this page:

Leica Loading (http://www.zorkikat.com/entering-from-the-bottom-loading-a-leica-properly-also-for-fed-zorki-and-canon-rf-cameras/115/)

http://www.zorkikat.com/entering-from-the-bottom-loading-a-leica-properly-also-for-fed-zorki-and-canon-rf-cameras/115/

[ZorkiKat]

Well, I suppose it's all in what you're used to doing. I've been doing the 'set the shutter on 'T', remove the lens' routine for about 26 years (I don't use a card though, just my finger) and it's never been a problem. Of course, if you're trying to do it on the fly, it can be a bit precarious juggling a lens, baseplate, camera and film without dropping anything, but I've never had that happen either. I'd personally find the leader cutting a bit of an annoyance, but that's just me.


But have you thought about the extra efforts of holding the shutter open, removing the lens, poking through the 'throat' to pull the film in, and then going through the actions of bottom loading....I think it's a pretty messy process.

I loaded my first 'bottom loader' in 1984. I recently found the leader I cut for that- after failing with the first attempt using the factory load, I figured that the diagram on the bottom of the crate meant something, and cut the leader according to how it looked. After that, I realised that there was really no other better way than loading these Leicas- the way its inventor meant it...

Film Loading and Leader Cutting (http://www.zorkikat.com/entering-from-the-bottom-loading-a-leica-properly-also-for-fed-zorki-and-canon-rf-cameras/115/)

[aperture64]

Nice article, but I stopped reading when I read this:

"There is only one correct way to load these cameras: the RIGHT WAY."

and saw him with the guide and exacto knife. I have never cut the film and once loaded the film on a moving subway train in NYC with no problem at all. I set the lens to T, remove the lens, and load. Never a problem.

[aperture64]

But have you thought about the extra efforts of holding the shutter open, removing the lens, poking through the 'throat' to pull the film in, and then going through the actions of bottom loading....I think it's a pretty messy process. (http://www.zorkikat.com/entering-from-the-bottom-loading-a-leica-properly-also-for-fed-zorki-and-canon-rf-cameras/115/)

I think I had a problem the first couple of times, but I just took my time and got it right. It's a lot less messy to me than carrying an exacto knife and the guide and it becomes easier with practice. The knife will also not go through security at an airport.

I think people can debate to cut or not to cut. Go with what works.

[brachal]

I will usually pre-cut as many rolls as I think I'm likely to use in a day when I shoot the Leica. If I'm flying, I'll either throw a little Swiss Army knife in my checked bag or buy a cheap pair of nail scissors at my destination.

I don't like the idea of needlessly removing a lens. Every time you do, there's a chance you'll drop it, put a thumb on an exposed element, get dust in the camera, etc. I can cut proper leaders on 5 rolls of film in a couple of minutes ... then no worries.

I think this topic is a lot like politics or religion. Each side will probably have to agree to disagree. :-)

[Vince Lupo]

But have you thought about the extra efforts of holding the shutter open, removing the lens, poking through the 'throat' to pull the film in, and then going through the actions of bottom loading....I think it's a pretty messy process.

I loaded my first 'bottom loader' in 1984. I recently found the leader I cut for that- after failing with the first attempt using the factory load, I figured that the diagram on the bottom of the crate meant something, and cut the leader according to how it looked. After that, I realised that there was really no other better way than loading these Leicas- the way its inventor meant it...

Film Loading and Leader Cutting (http://www.zorkikat.com/entering-from-the-bottom-loading-a-leica-properly-also-for-fed-zorki-and-canon-rf-cameras/115/)

Thanks for the follow-up. Here again, it all depends on what you're used to doing. I don't really find it a 'messy' process because I've been doing it for 26 years. Holding the shutter open just involves putting the camera on 'T', and it stays open by itself. The only time I've found it to be a bit of a trick is when I'm also using a MOOLY motor with the transmission arm, but as I mentioned, you work out your own system.

[ZorkiKat]

I will usually pre-cut as many rolls as I think I'm

I don't like the idea of needlessly removing a lens. Every time you do, there's a chance you'll drop it, put a thumb on an exposed element, get dust in the camera, etc. I can cut proper leaders on 5 rolls of film in a couple of minutes ... then no worries.
:-)


That's exactly it. The risks involved. And adding 3 or 4 more steps, plus the need for another hand (or place) where to put the lens in during the open shutter loading method.


"There is only one correct way to load these cameras: the RIGHT WAY."

and saw him with the guide and exacto knife. I have never cut the film and once loaded the film on a moving subway train in NYC with no problem at all. I set the lens to T, remove the lens, and load.

"RIGHT" as based on the instruction manuals issued by Leica, Canon, FED, Zorki, etc....can't these factory manuals be considered as authorities? :)

The blade/guide was shown to demonstrate how IT IS DONE IDEALLY. But as you can see, there's another picture which shows how a pair of scissors can do the same cut. There are also several sentences devoted to explaining that scissors can be used and the ABLON guide is not needed...you should have READ ON :)

[CLE-RF]

I never cut the film, since it always got jammed like Marco's.

Simply wind the camera, set it to B or Z, take off bottom and lens. Fit uncut film leader into the spool. Insert spool and film halfway into their chambers. Press the shutter button and keep it pressed down. Now insert spool and film canister further, and use your index finger to make sure the film slides in along the pressure plate the way it should. Release shutter (remove finger first:p), advance two shots to check transport, reinstall bottom plate and lens and you're done!

This way, I can choose any film I like from my bag (I usually carry several different films) without having to cut it first. Wááy easier!

[MarkoKovacevic]

I now just cut it on a long diagonal, spanning around 22 holes. It looks like the drawing on the shutter crate, and it always works. I personally feel its too risky to take off the lens, and stick your finger through the shutter. It also damages the pressure plate by using too much pressure, and its already so many steps!

[Melvin]

Whether you cut the leader or not, Barnacks load just like an M2 or M3, except there's no door to check if the sprockets are in the holes. Instead you just look down into the body with some good light(e.g.by the window). All the stuff about taking the lens off, shutter on "t"...etc. is unnecessary.

p.s. I noticed that some films seem thicker and more prone to splitting, namely Velvia. I reloaded a roll of Velvia onto a Leitz cassette and lost about half the film to my ineptitude. Lesson learned: don't reload Velvia onto Leitz cassettes.

[Ronald M]

Trim it with a proper template. Other methods may work sometimes but it is a matter of time until you screw up. Sure you can force the film into the channel with the shutter on time and a few other tricks, but don`t do it.

I let one pair of opposing sprocket holes show outside the felt, load the take up, , then advance with the bottom off so I know the thing is going to load. Take up slack and watch the film unspool as you wind. 1/4 turn and you know all is ok. Replace the bottom and keep going.

[Vince Lupo]

This way, I can choose any film I like from my bag (I usually carry several different films) without having to cut it first. Wááy easier!

And if you're away on vacation - particularly in another country - and you have to buy more film, you can simply use it without having to worry about cutting anything.

[Luddite Frank]

I prefer loading pre-cut film; would rather not have to pull the lens, etc , especially when on my feet.

I think the most important detail, when trimming the film, is a smooth cut: no nicks or sharp corners that can catch in the film-gate.

The factory trim has a very smooth ("polished" ? ) edge to the film; I have found that scissors cuts can be a little ragged.

Might try trimming with a knife and the template (I have one that came with a used Watson 66 bulk-film loader).

Like most processes, find a method that works for you, learn it well, and stick with it.

If you consistently have problems, it may be time to investigate another approach. Certainly the mfr's ( E. Leitz's ) method seems a good point of departure.

I have shot hundreds of pre-trimmed rolls in my Barnack's over the last two years, w/o incident.

Caerful attention to detail is well-served here...

Cheers !

LF

[Rob-F]

I remove 8 additional sprocket holes of film. That's the length of one frame; an arbitrary decision which has worked out so well that I've seldom been tempted to experiment with other lengths. I suppose 4 or 6 holes might be enough, but I've not tried it. I aim the scissors (swiss army executive model) to finish between two sprocket holes. I shot over 20 rolls in France and Finland this way, with no problems.