payment methods: bank transfer? [Archive]

micromontenegro

07-29-2009, 11:48

I have often dealt with wire transfers and never (knock on wood) have had any trouble.
Many people feel uncomfortable disclosing their bank account number, but it does not make any sense to me- the account number, on its own, does not empower the thugs to do anything. Also, every time you write a check, you are disclosing your account number.

BTW, it seems to be a geographical thing. In many parts of the world, no one bats an eye to a wire transfer: they are absolutely commonplace.

amateriat

07-29-2009, 12:02

I've done a few wire transfers without incident, for what that's worth.

- Barrett

JBC

07-29-2009, 14:30

Bank to bank wire transfers are very safe, but can also be very expensive. Many banks charge a hefty fee. The last time I did a wire transfer I think the fee was $25.00 US and often times this is charged by BOTH the sending and recieving banks. You might want to verify the cost before going forward.

Jim Couch

Oscar Levant

07-29-2009, 14:42

If you're the seller, a wire transfer is absolutely the best and safest for you. Once the money is in your account, that's it. No chargebacks or monkey business from PayPal. The money is yours.

A bank transfer is 100% safe. Whenever you write a check, you hand out the same info. People who tell you it's not safe have no idea what they're talking about.

The insurance and signature is for PayPal deals only. Let the buyer pay for extas only if he wants it.

FedEx is not so great. Use Post Office EMS or DHL if you want the least fees and aggravation.

FrankS

07-29-2009, 14:45

Thanks for your responses!

Oscar Levant

07-29-2009, 14:48

That is preposterous.

Could always open an account just for the transfer and cash it out once the money is transferred to the account. Then close out the account.

wgerrard

07-29-2009, 14:58

I've done several bank transfers without incident. Quick, fast, safe. Remember, it's a transaction between two banks, not two individuals.

If you use online banking, check to see if you can transfer funds to anyone with an account at the same bank. I know Bank of America has that. It's fast, safe, and free.

Bob Michaels

07-29-2009, 17:53

In light of the problems with PayPal that a recent thread brought up, I was wondering if payment by bank transfer is a safe method. I may be selling a camera (Plaubel Makina 67, $1200) to a photographer in Taiwan and shipping with Fedex (with insurance and pick up sig required.) This sounds safe, right?

Could not be safer for you. But consider that you are asking him to put absolute faith in you when you refuse to put any in him. The buyer will be in the position of having absolutely zero recourse against you if anything goes wrong, including you just taking his money and not shipping anything.

It would take a fool to buy from a stranger under the terms you ask.

FrankS: no personal reflection on your character. Same comment would apply to anyone.

FrankS

07-29-2009, 17:58

Hi Bob. This fellow has 2 posts on RFF. He cannot supply any on-line references/credibility. I feel established here. I've bought and sold lots here. It's like having an ebay record. But I know what you're saying.

35mmdelux

07-29-2009, 18:04

Not sure I would say that $25 is "very expensive" on a $1200 deal. Seems cheap for the peace of mind it offers.

Or you could pay PP $40+ in fees and get ripped off.

Bob Michaels

07-29-2009, 18:05

Hi Bob. This fellow has 2 psots on RFF. I have many more and feel established. I've bought and sold lots here. It's like having an ebay record. But I know what you're saying.

if he is an RFF'er, I hope he does not read my post then.

historicist

07-29-2009, 18:36

In some countries bank transfer is a totally normal way of conducting business between two people, even for high value transactions between strangers.

Rayt

07-29-2009, 18:46

I am in HK and shops like Igor and Popflash now insist on bank transfers. This has saved me considerable amounts of money due to my choice not to put up with the hassle of wasting my lunch hour at the bank. This is like quitting smoking and I am grateful.

jonmanjiro

07-29-2009, 18:53

Bank transfer is the standard way to send funds and pay for auction items in Japan. Most people have never even heard of PayPal here.

digitalintrigue

07-29-2009, 19:15

FedEx is not so great. Use Post Office EMS or DHL if you want the least fees and aggravation.

It's funny, I shipped an item to Australia today via Global Express Guaranteed at the Post Office. GXG is nothing but the post office subcontracting the shipment to Fedex. It took no less than 15 minutes to get everything entered at the counter, not counting the time waiting in line. The airbills and paperwork were already done (entered on the web.)

When I ship via Fedex, I walk in, drop off the box, and walk out. Takes less than five seconds, and no waiting.

Fedex provides the least amount of aggravation by far over any other carrier, and I've done thousands of international shipments for 20+ years.

newsgrunt

07-29-2009, 19:29

I've only done one bank transfer and had no worries at all. Of course the seller showed absolute trust in me as he sent 100 rolls of 120 film from Europe BEFORE getting paid. Helped that we'd talked on the phone lots and were both hanging our necks out since I would be sending to a bank acc't in Canada even though he lived overseas. That he sent the film first surprised me.

Steve M.

07-29-2009, 20:35

This is a very informative post. I would much prefer to give my transfer fees to a bank rather than PayPal, and the bank fees are less too. This method also eliminates the charges and charge back risks associated w/ credit cards . True, it gives the seller full protection and gives none to the buyer, but isn't that just the nature of the beast? Every online store, or brick and mortar store for that matter, requires payment before the buyer receives the merchandise. People are willing to do it online based upon the reputation of the seller. Unfortunately fleabay requires a seller to accept PayPal so you're screwed on that venue, but even there you may be able to work out something person to person.

I think I will try doing this on my next camera sales. We've felt secure enough sending hundreds of thousands of dollars w/ wire transfers when it involved opening a CD online or buying a home through a title company, so it should be fine for selling a camera too. Should have thought of this by now. And you're right, someone just having your bank account number is no help at all in a scam, for as someone else said every time you write a check there it is.

kxl

07-29-2009, 21:02

Wire transfers from a buyer's perspective:

I pay you X amount for the price of the camera.

I pay you Y amount for shipping.

I pay my bank Z amount to execute the wire transfer.

If the seller is willing to discount Z from the total price, then it'd be okay; otherwise, I'd probably ask the seller if he'd accept Paypal

Also, there are many buyers who may not have the cash in their bank account but would be willing to buy your item by using their CC through Paypal.

A wire transfer shifts the 'trust factor' to the buyer since he would not have any recourse if the seller is scamming him.

Bottom line: in any transaction between strangers, someone is going to have to make the first move in trusting the other.

jky

07-29-2009, 21:38

Bottom line: in any transaction between strangers, someone is going to have to make the first move in trusting the other.

Yes! In this case, since the purchaser only has 2 posts and cannot provide references, all possible advantage should be on the seller....
From my experience selling equipment here in the classifieds, majority of the transactions I've made were with infrequent posters (with very little to no references). Although everything's been good so far, there's always the thought of "I better not get duped" (as I'm sure they're thinking as well).

All of this info has been very helpful!

ChrisN

07-30-2009, 00:07

Bank transfer is the standard way to send funds and pay for auction items in Japan. Most people have never even heard of PayPal here.

In Australia also. Locally we call this "direct deposit", and it is most commonly executed via on-line banking that allows me to transfer the money direct to the seller's bank account - I just need their account name, account number and the BSB number that identifies their bank or financial institution. Very secure, little or no fees and no chargebacks.

When ebay.com.au tried to make Paypal the only option for payments, the Australian regulatory authorities fought them, and we retain the option of making payments via this mechanism.

mfunnell

07-30-2009, 00:27

When ebay.com.au tried to make Paypal the only option for payments, the Australian regulatory authorities fought them, and we retain the option of making payments via this mechanism.That was valuable, and fine as far as it goes. However, ebay.com.au does insist that Paypal be offered as an option and insists that if a buyer wants to use it then the seller must accept it.

Which leads back to the seller having no protection. You would think that this creates a nice spot for a trusted third party to mitigate the risk for both buyer and seller - but neither eBay nor Paypal seem interested in doing this. I'm guessing that's because that's not profitable (enough) for them. I think that is one of the things driving the trend I see towards eBay being more and more a playground for scammers and price-gougers and less useful or popular for "real" buyers and sellers.

I see very few good items of the kind readily available a couple of years ago, and with one exception (where I picked up in person and paid cash) I've not bought anything over $50 in quite some time - and even those have mostly been cash-in-person.

...Mike

nksyoon

07-30-2009, 00:33

Regarding choice of shipper, my personal experience in Switzerland shows me that using the state postal service is usually the cheapest, especially for the receiver (me) as courier companies charge higher customs processing fees than the post office. So I usually ask US sellers to use USPS.

thinkfloyd

07-30-2009, 06:42

very informative thread, i just sold via the bay over $2000 worth of equipment. however, the buyer has me doubting. first he or she has no feedback whatsoever to speak of, second he only joined ebay the date he or she made the final bid (used the buy it now option), and third, the ebay id is of dubious nature since it has a name with several numbers after it (pretty much like those used in spam mail). i was fretting over what to do till i read this thread. i will kindly ask the buyer to wire transfer to my bank his payment because of the above issues. if he or she refuses, it's ok, as long as i have peace of mind...

(sorry for the use of all small caps. my shift and caps lock key are acting up)

@chippy: really? oftheherd ran off with your money/stuff? i always see him here and i, myself, would not hesitate dealing with him knowing that he is a somewhat respectable member here... all my transactions here (buying,selling and trading) have been positive experiences, making me love rff more (thanks hans voralberg, david murphy, karefin, mihai and aldobonnard for keeping my faith in rff members).

historicist

07-30-2009, 06:48

a name with numbers after it is pretty common on ebay, my ebay username is my name with numbers in front of it ;)

I fairly recently had an ebay transaction in which the buyer seemed very dubious (wanted me to send COD, pay by paypal despite it being stated in the auction i would not, etc. etc.), I got paranoid and refused to give him my bank details for him to make a bank transfer, in the end he phoned up my ebay to get the necessary details - which was seriously underhand - and made the transfer regardless, I sent the item (which was very valuable), he received it, no problems. I guess mistrust can cut both ways.

thinkfloyd

07-30-2009, 06:52

@historicist: really? it's common? well then, 2 out of three left to resolve :)

chippy

07-30-2009, 07:08

@chippy: really? oftheherd ran off with your money/stuff? i always see him here and i, myself, would not hesitate dealing with him knowing that he is a somewhat respectable member here... all my transactions here (buying,selling and trading) have been positive experiences, making me love rff more (thanks hans voralberg, david murphy, karefin, mihai and aldobonnard for keeping my faith in rff members).

yep sure did, i always thought he was a top bloke as well, you never can tell though can ya, he hasnt been here since, not under that name!

historicist

07-30-2009, 07:09

yup, the numbers at least... can't help you with the judgement call on the other questions though...

thinkfloyd

07-30-2009, 07:19

@chippy: that sucks... number of posts and years here doth not an honest person make. shame how one member can ruin the trust factor for a whole community...

@historicist: yeah, i just emailed the buyer kindly requesting payment be made via bank transfer. i said his lack of feedback and immediate join date was a concern and hopes he understand my position. i also said that having 100% positive feedback on my side, i intend to keep it that way and i hope he considers my position.

tom.w.bn

07-30-2009, 09:59

Interesting Information. Paypal seems to work differently in some countries. In Germany you have "Buyer protection" when you buy on ebay only. When you just transfer money via paypal to someone and you hit the "send money" button, the money is on the destination account. If you don't get the item or you just made a mistake with the account number Paypal won't help you to get your money back. They behave just like a every normal bank there.

There was the quistion if bank to bank money transfer is safe. In which way? That money gets lost? Money is not like luggage that gets lost on an airport. Money does not get lost on a bank transfer.

aliceelizabeth

07-30-2009, 10:47

we aren't charged anything to wire money in the uk as far as i know

to make large deposits yes but when i say large i mean LARGE

considering we paid £18 to deposit half a million pounds (when i say we i mean my company) and have it returend to another account I do think a £25 is excessive!

wiring money abroad you should use urg I forget but it's a £5 flat fee

with paypal you have buyer protection though

I don't like doing wire transfers with people I don't know for that reason only.

Oscar Levant

07-30-2009, 20:20

You would be insane to accept PayPal from this "buyer". 100% positive you will lose your money and item.

PS: He is simply a fraud. Stop communicating with him. You are wasting your time.

very informative thread, i just sold via the bay over $2000 worth of equipment. however, the buyer has me doubting. first he or she has no feedback whatsoever to speak of, second he only joined ebay the date he or she made the final bid (used the buy it now option), and third, the ebay id is of dubious nature since it has a name with several numbers after it (pretty much like those used in spam mail). i was fretting over what to do till i read this thread. i will kindly ask the buyer to wire transfer to my bank his payment because of the above issues. if he or she refuses, it's ok, as long as i have peace of mind...

(sorry for the use of all small caps. my shift and caps lock key are acting up)

@chippy: really? oftheherd ran off with your money/stuff? i always see him here and i, myself, would not hesitate dealing with him knowing that he is a somewhat respectable member here... all my transactions here (buying,selling and trading) have been positive experiences, making me love rff more (thanks hans voralberg, david murphy, karefin, mihai and aldobonnard for keeping my faith in rff members).

Oscar Levant

07-30-2009, 20:22

This is impossible. eBay would not give anyone your bank details over the phone to send a wire. You are confused.

a name with numbers after it is pretty common on ebay, my ebay username is my name with numbers in front of it ;)

I fairly recently had an ebay transaction in which the buyer seemed very dubious (wanted me to send COD, pay by paypal despite it being stated in the auction i would not, etc. etc.), I got paranoid and refused to give him my bank details for him to make a bank transfer, in the end he phoned up my ebay to get the necessary details - which was seriously underhand - and made the transfer regardless, I sent the item (which was very valuable), he received it, no problems. I guess mistrust can cut both ways.

chippy

07-30-2009, 22:57

@chippy: that sucks... number of posts and years here doth not an honest person make. shame how one member can ruin the trust factor for a whole community...

sure does suck! just the way it is i guess, to think he was an active member since 2003 with near 3000 posts, and in PM professed to have strong christian values, i guess a few dollars undermines that integrity with some people...so if anyone in the US does know him or would like to contact or give him a call on my behalf i would appreciate it...small satisfaction at least

overall though the positives usually outway the negative dealings on RFF, to head my list of neg dealings would be oftherherd, then to a non comparable result would be Billxxxx (no need to point him out) whom was going to send me some toners for b&w prints but never did, was on the give away thread yonks ago so perhaps it worked out too much of a bother for him, no problem, also non money related but it was disappointing that an aussie bloke didnt help me after assuring me he would, with help in chasing (contacting) up a crook in sydney that still owes me money and gear, not something we expect from a fellow aussie, come to think of it he also said he would send me some darkroom gear, oh well. On the other hand i have had a number of people that have done exactly as they promise, cant remember all their names but they arnt always outspoken christians lol, or even agree with me on the forum haha, heck fallisphoto doesnt always! but has proved to be someone with character and integrity as far as i can tell so far (he will miss this post so i can get away with a compliment haha), some others as well, simon from the UK just the other day sent me some gear, very decent fellow

such is life

Oscar Levant

07-30-2009, 23:27

I found your friend Norris easily here:

http://www.anywho.com/

historicist

07-30-2009, 23:40

This is impossible. eBay would not give anyone your bank details over the phone to send a wire. You are confused.

In Germany you can register your bank details and they are passed on to the auction winner so they can make the payment.

In this case the buyer was living in Austria, and apparently needed my address to make the transfer. Because he was acting so suspiciously (no feedback, address according to ebay in a different country to the shipping address, etc. etc.) I got paranoid and refused to give him my address.

He contacted ebay and they gave him my address.

Keith

07-31-2009, 00:00

I'm on the other side of the fence here ... I spotted a Hasselblad 80mm CF lens in the p.net classifieds the other day for $300.00 which is pretty reasonable for a lens that appears to be nearly mint. The American seller is prepared to send it to OZ but will only accept a bank transfer for payment and has been a little difficult to deal with to be honest with very abrupt responses to my emails ... no nice feelings from the deal at all!

I checked their history at peanut and they've only just joined ... to sell the lens obviously! To transfer the money to their account in the USA I have to drive to my bank and fill out forms of course and can't do this until monday morning ... the email I received last night with their bank details sort of insisted I do the transfer today if possible which I couldn't due to work commitments.

So what happens if this is a scam and after transfering the $325.00 to their account I don't get my lens and never hear from them again ... what recourse is there in a case like that?

chippy

07-31-2009, 00:21

I found your friend Norris easily here:

http://www.anywho.com/

thanks Oscar for the link, it looks a useful utility, but i could not find the details there corresponding to this address(below)? it gave different addresses

Norris H. Price
13705 Greenwood Dr.
Woodbridge, VA 22193

i doesn't make a lot of sense to me, though the address should be correct as i sent him a Christmas card and he acknowledged receiving it, not to mention some gear

i should add, i actually thought the poor bugger had died or was ill or something, i had such high regard for him, but through other sources i found he is still around...alive and kicking it seems

Oscar Levant

07-31-2009, 00:38

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22norris+h.+Price%22+22193&hl=en&safe=off&num=50&newwindow=1&pb=r&ei=aaxySuXFJZOuMKmvkLEM&sa=X&oi=rwp&ct=title

http://www.realtor.com/property-detail/13677-Greenwood-Dr_Woodbridge_VA_22193_7fa72b01

File a police report. Call your local Australian police, see if you can informally get them to contact Virginia police on your behalf. Police to Police will get better results than you doing it yourself.

If this guy even gets a call from the Police, it may scare him into refunding you. You might get someone to be the "Australian Police" on the phone for you.

You could also pay a small fee for lots more info:

http://www.intelius.com/search-summary-out.php?ReportType=1&qf=norris&qmi=h&qn=Price&qs=VA&trackit=74&focusfirst=1

.

chippy

07-31-2009, 03:28

well thanks again Oscar, at least from that i got a phone number, which i just called, i have no doubt i reached the correct people (after exchanging emails, certain clues are evident-not to mention the address). but he denied having any association with his name or RFF...OMG, what a crook....on to the next level i suppose

Oscar Levant

07-31-2009, 03:49

That's a shame. Under a previous user name, I conducted several RFF exchanges with no problems, but I was cautious. One RFF member who used to be a prolific poster from Europe was a very nice guy, but he left the forum after someone else antagonized him.

"When dealing with a religious son of a bitch, always get it in writing" - William Burroughs.

Oscar Levant

07-31-2009, 03:50

PS: A woman with a Korean name is also living at that address. Wife? Adopted daughter?

These are people or aliases associated with him.
Oksook Sook Price
Norris H Price
Kristina A Price
Joyce M Price

Several year old email address which suggests he works at a college. Maybe inquire there, see if he works there. Talk to his boss.

PRICEN@gunet.georgetown.edu

.

chippy

07-31-2009, 03:57

PS: A woman with a Korean name is also living at that address. Wife? Adopted daughter?

yes, i am not sure what your point is, ...blind dumbness on my part no doubt...but it is certain it was oftheherd i was speaking to, after, i spoke to his korean wife i believe

[edit] have to admit that religious quote at the end of your post, seems pretty apt just about now!

Oscar Levant

07-31-2009, 04:05

The only reason I mentioned it is because it might help you to find him. If you have creative mind, do some "social engineering". You can often "persuade" someone to return your money if you make the right kind of phone calls, etc.

Maybe his wife/daughter doesn't know he's a crook?

Maybe "the investigation agency" can call asking about whether he still has the thing you paid for? The "immigration authority" can call asking if she's legal because her husband stole money in an international transaction?

Get my drift? Take matters into your own hands, don't be a passive victim.

.

Oscar Levant

07-31-2009, 04:15

What did you buy that he didn't send, by the way?

Beemermark

07-31-2009, 05:24

people should be aware that the other thread, that has prompted this one, where the unfortunate RFF member had his money taken back by Pay Pal because the buyer claimed INR (item not received) would of been covered/protected by Pay Pal had he simply sent the item requiring a signature! it was an unfortunate mistake but an error just the same, do it properly and both seller and buyer are protected

Unfortunately this is not true. My niece got ripped off when the seller claimed the item was not received even though she had the signature from the post office. In her experience and in a bad experience for me PayPal is not a dispute resolution center, they simply refund the money. And they are constantly changing how they do business, I got ripped off last year for $500 on an auto sale and they would do nothing.

Somehow these threads go along the lines that some sellers are dishonest but ALL buyer are 101% above board. In 30 years of wheeling and dealing I usually find it to be the other way around. Before the internet Shutterbug was an 11x17 yellow publication of classifieds. The buyer sent his money order and the seller mailed the product. Worked 99% of the time.

I'm pretty much done with selling anything on Ebay or forums. I do reply to WTB adds but that rarely comes to anything. Overall I haven't had much problems on this forum but with the price of most equipment being in the mud it just ain't worth the hassle.

wgerrard

07-31-2009, 09:30

My niece got ripped off when the seller claimed the item was not received even though she had the signature from the post office.

When a signature is required and the addressee lives in an apartment or similar complex, mail carriers may well be satisfied with the signature of the office staffer or other employee who was there that day to accept packages for people who are not home. As far as the post office is concerned, the package was delivered and they have a signature to prove it, just not the signature of the addressee. If the package is subsequently lost or stolen, the addressee had a problem.

I don't know if the post office is permitted to accept signatures from someone other than the addressee, but it does happen.