View Full Version : My Leica IIIf sounds too loud
I find the IIIf to have a very noisy shutter sound. Is this OK or is maybe something wrong with the camera? The shutter curtain was torn, and Eddy just fixed the camera. In comparison, my Canon IVsb sounds much quieter.
How do you rate the sound level of your Leica LTM cameras?
Screw Leicas are louder than M Leicas. The only way to tell if your IIIf is louder than it should be is to compare it with a couple of other Leica screw bodies.
ya, my IIIC, IIIF are louder than any of my M5. And u have a feel that the moving of the curtain not as smooth (can't find an exact word to describe) as M body.
My IIIf is certainly louder, and while I did get to try one in a shop that seemed quieter it was not side by side.
It isn't a problem though because it takes great photos, I enjoy using it and I don't use it quiet venues like performances where it would bother those seated around me. At other times on the street where you would like a quiet shutter mine gives such a "clack" sound that it appears to go unnoticed because it doesn't sound quiet or loud like typical camera sounds.
elshaneo
07-23-2009, 01:20
Yeah indeed, my Leica IIIf RD ST shutter is much louder than my Leica M7, but much quieter than my Canon EOS 5D Mark II ;-)
But I'll never sell my Leica IIIf RD ST, because I find it to be the most beautiful camera ever made ;-p
I've had a Youxin Ye CLA'd IIIf and certainly wasn't 'loud', a little more than my CLA'd M2 but not by much and certainly quieter than my pre-shutter brake IIIa and a IVSB2 I had.
Of course, these are old cameras, and 'loudness' is subjective without emperical testing.
I own a IIIa and a IIIc and while both are louder than the M3 and M5, they match the M8 in terms of noise.
Yesterday evening I shot a portrait of my sons babysitter (well, he's 8 yrs...) from 3.5 mtrs distance with the M8, she never noticed it until I showed it to her. The room wasn't noisy, her mind was just set on finding a phone number in her cell phone...
A shutter is only loud when its too loud:D
goodtimes
07-23-2009, 03:48
I have a Leica II D and a III C. The II D seems to have high tensioned springs compared to the III C, which looks even weak in compare. The III C is my most silent camera among all. However both cameras offer the exact same shutter speed accuracy.
Oculus Sinister
07-23-2009, 03:57
Although the difference is minimal, my IIIf RD is louder than my M2 but more quiet than my Nikon S.
Be sure the repair guy has not tensionned the shutter curtains springs too hard.
At 1 30s must sound like a gentle Tee-tlak ! Not TAK PLAK !
Oh no, my beautiful IIIf has got the TAK PLAK's !
I had the same question recently.
my IIIf sounded a bit "metallic", the shutter gives a high pitch sound.
The effect was that it "sounds" louder than my III which has a very soft sound.
I discovered that it improves above 1/50.
I "played " with the shutter brake without any improvement.
I asked Don Goldberg about this and he told me that there is a certain variability among these cameras, and two cameras of the same model can sound quite different.
I now suspect that maybe the type of shutter curtains used may have an impact on how noisy a IIIf is. Could I be right here?
At least I know that I am not the only member in the TAK PLAK Club!
One of the smoothest sounding shutters is in my Standard Leica. It sounds butter smooth.
My IIIf is very quiet, about the same as M2.
Luddite Frank
07-23-2009, 20:11
Raid,
I just went and dug-out three of my Barnacks: 1932 D ( II ), 1933 F ( III ), and 1952 IIIf, s/n: 600xxx.
Tried all three at the same shutter speeds throughout their repsective ranges.
I don't find my IIIf significantly louder than the other two cameras.
All are unrestored, and have their original curtains, as far as I know.
The IIIf definitely has its original curtains, as they are all crackly and no longer light-tight.
I do have them in eveready cases for shooting, but don't think that quiets them very much.
As long as you don't hear "shreiking" or "squawking" from dry parts ( my Exakta squawks in cold temps!), I wouldn't worry about it.
I'm sure your IIIf is quieter than most SLRs...
I have noticed that cameras with Focal-Plane shutters make more noise than those with leaf-type ( Compur ) shutters.
I think my Contax IIIa is quieter than my Barnacks.
Regards,
Luddite Frank
( Just dug-out the Contax: definitely a quieter camera. Heavier too ! )
ZeissFan
07-23-2009, 20:21
The III C is my most silent camera among all.
Technically, that isn't possible, although I know what you mean. :)
It's like being the most dead.
ZeissFan
07-23-2009, 20:27
Raid, one of the things that's happened is that Leica users have said that their LTM cameras are much quieter than an SLR, which is generally true.
But then others have taken that a step further and said that Leica LTM cameras are very quiet, which is stretching things a bit.
They are really wonderful cameras, and I think out on the street they are quiet and not noticeable because no slapping mirror and a small "form factor."
One of the things that surprised me when I bought my IIIf is that the shutter was louder than I expected -- especially after reading the hype for several years.
I will use the IIIF and enjoy it. With the Heliar 50mm/3.5 it will be a blast to use.
Let's hope it isn't a loud one.
LOL ... a "loud blast"!
With so many cameras to pick from, I really should not worry about one RF camera being louder than other RF cameras in my posession. Maybe it is a "wake-up kids" camera so that when I take photos of them, and they appear to doze off, a quick [and noisy!] sound from the IIIf wakes them up. This is like Beethoven's work on ....
Spider67
07-24-2009, 12:32
.....so get your Zorki (the C is a sure candidate for that) and release the shutter then turn to the IIIF and all gets well in relation....of course my 35RC....
The shutter curtain was torn, and Eddy just fixed the camera. In comparison, my Canon IVsb sounds much quieter
You should contact Eddy and find out how many turns he typically
puts on the cannisters. If he's setting Leica shutters up the way
he might a Russian camera, there's your problem, unless your
shutter brake is gone.
It's a wonderfully overengineered part that slows the 1st
curtain dramatically; lever actuated from the main shutter shaft.
It's very effective. If you want to hear loud, disconnect it. You'd
reach for a Zorki quickly.
Most of the time, excessive noise from a Leica C or F is due
to an overtensed 2nd curtain. The shutter brakes are fairly
durable.
Thanks for the explanation. It makes a lot of sense.
ZorkiKat
07-25-2009, 12:41
Whats a shutter brake?
The Leica IIIf shutter brake:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL740/2933453/22048104/370399469.jpg
Part "A" is a disk connected to the first (opening) shutter blind. "A1" is the hooked part whose position corresponds to a relative position of the first blind lath as it traverses across the film gate. At the end of its travel, "A1" stops somewhere too.
Part "B" is the brake. It is an adjustable eccentric screw whose oblique position is made to cushion (or stop) the crashing action of the first shutter blind as it reaches the end of its travel. Its ideal position is where it would stop "A1", just as the first curtain lath clears the film gate. The actual position or orientation of the eccentric oblique varies. It is often adjusted when the curtains are changed or adjusted or even retensioned.
The brake doesn't really slow down the shutter blind's travel. If it did, it would affect the exposure. It stops the first blind's lath from crashing into the roller end of the crate and produce a lot of noise, or worse, vibrations.
A well dampened stop for the first curtain will mean a less noisy shutter. The second shutter doesn't really need more cushioning since it tends to be quieter when it reaches its end. The opening shutter has a tension about 4X more than the closing shutter.
A badly adjusted or missing brake can cause vibrations in the shutter crate. When the first curtain 'crashes' it can cause the film gate to move and blur the image. This defect manifests itself in photos where about half or 1/4 of the frame (the part closer to the roller side) shows a marked blur in the details, missing from the other parts of the frame which were exposed first, and covered, by the time the first blind 'crashes' into the rollers.
BTW, I have 3 IIIf, and all fire with varying degrees of noise. Same could be said of my 3 IIIcs. The III Leica are the noisiest of the lot.
Luddite Frank
07-26-2009, 04:48
For those who want to hear an example of a really loud focal-plane shutter, find a Speed Graphic, Graflex single-lens-relflex press camera, or even a "National Graflex" (6x7 Graflex SLR from the 1930's-'40s).
(Especially if said camera has not had a CLA for a while - those can sound downright terrifying!)
Try those out... makes the Leica seem like Marcel Marceau by comparison. ;)
Luddite Frank :)
my iiif sounds louder than i imagin, i thought it should be a leica sound.....just kidding.
I tend to think we make too much out of shutter clacks. The camera is right at our ears when we press the shutter! But I remember one time in a camera store the dealer pulled out a sm Leica & fired the shutter, he said "I love that sound" when I heard it I thought to myself, thats no quiter than my Zorki! & thought it ironic his saying that compared to everything I read around here.
Bob Corwin
07-26-2009, 10:34
The Leica IIIf shutter brake:
Part "B" is the brake.
A well dampened stop for the first curtain will mean a less noisy shutter. The second shutter doesn't really need more cushioning since it tends to be quieter when it reaches its end. The opening shutter has a tension about 4X more than the closing shutter.
Nice presentation, Zorkicat. A couple of things though....
i) Part B is not the shutter brake, technically. The brake
assembly cannot be seen from the image you provide.
ii) The 4:1 tension ratio does not apply in general. In fact,
it's reckless to assume that if I put 3 turns on the second
curtain, it follows that 12 turns should be applied to the first
curtain. This could damage curtain springs and wear out
the brake assembly prematurely.
Regards,
Bob
Luddite Frank
07-26-2009, 12:12
I tend to think we make too much out of shutter clacks. The camera is right at our ears when we press the shutter! But I remember one time in a camera store the dealer pulled out a sm Leica & fired the shutter, he said "I love that sound" when I heard it I thought to myself, thats no quiter than my Zorki! & thought it ironic his saying that compared to everything I read around here.
My first introduction to a "real camera" ( and focal-plane shutter) was my Dad's Nikon S, when I was about 5 years old.
So I grew-up hearing that "shoop!" of the shutter curtains.
Didn't know that cameras should sound otherwise.
Then I got an Argus C-3, with the leaf-type shutter, and that kind of went "ping"...
Then Mom got a Canon AE-1 Program, and I started hearing the clatter of the SLR mirror...
Most mechanical devices have a characteristic sound, though there are variations among specific examples....
I think one of the reasons the shutter in the Contax II / III cameras and the a-variants is so quiet is that the vertical-travelling shutter has to move a shorter distance [across the film gate ] and therefore, does not have to travel as fast as the curtains in a Leica/Nikon/Canon RF.
LF
The noise that my Nikon FG's mirror and shutter mechanism makes is quite comical. It sounds something like, "clat-chat-sproing!" with that vibrating spring sound at the end. I've got to mention the sound of the Fuji 67 and Fujica GS645W as well: "CLACK!"
ZorkiKat
07-27-2009, 00:26
Nice presentation, Zorkicat. A couple of things though....
ii) The 4:1 tension ratio does not apply in general. In fact,
it's reckless to assume that if I put 3 turns on the second
curtain, it follows that 12 turns should be applied to the first
curtain. This could damage curtain springs and wear out
the brake assembly prematurely.
Regards,
Bob
Thanks Bob for pointing the missing detail here. I should have added that the tension of the closing curtain is about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 turns on its roller. 4 times of that is maybe 6 to 7 turns for the closing curtain's roller. There would be no risk of over tensioning with less than 8 full turns. In fact the 1:4 ratio seems to apply to other Leica style shutters as well- the Zorki and FED shutters without brakes also are tensed at a 1:4 ratio.
But then again, anyone tensioning the rollers should be aware of these factors. Without them, the basic rule of thumb applies as a starting point- tension the closing curtain just enough to make it close. That is usually less than 2 full turns. It would be more reckless to start adjusting things without knowing how to. Even without being aware of these things, one indicator of an overtensed 2nd curtain is that the first curtain will tend to catch and stop or hang midway at high speeds.
most cameras sound quiet to me, i mostly use a Hasselblad so am used to the KA-CHUNK! vaccuum sound of the shutter alerting anybody in a 100m distance of my presence :D
then again, the Nikon D3 i used to own was surprisingly loud. so the IIIc's little shutter Tlak's are quiet as a mouse to me!
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.