View Full Version : Grandfather's M3 now mine - advice?
Hopefully I am not violating any forum rules - will gladly stand corrected if so. I recently inherited my Grandpa's Leica M3 camera and lens collection. He purchased it new in 1955 in Ohio. I have a lot of the slides that he took of trips out west and overseas. Also all of the purchase certificates with the serial numbers survived and I placed them into a notebook.
I suppose I'll be hanged on this forum for saying this but I probably am not the best person to appreciate the Leica Rangefinder cameras as I've come to accept the mediocre quality of today's compact digital cameras. I've posted everything on ebay but wasn't sure what a fair price to ask was or if there was a better way to present the camera. Should I have it overhauled at a Leica repair facility or would it be better to let the next owner do that?
Here are some pictures of the what I have and any input would be greatly appreciated.
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica01.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica02.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica03.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica04.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica05.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica06.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica07.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica08.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica09.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica10.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica11.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica12.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica13.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica14.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica15.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica16.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica17.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica18.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica19.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica20.jpg
http://members.rennlist.org/jjbare/leica21.jpg
I hope my grandkids bury my cameras with me.
aperture64
07-21-2009, 12:21
Please don't sell it on eBay, like the many other people I see.
chris00nj
07-21-2009, 12:27
Well I inherited my grandfather's M3, but I started using it!
What you want to do is try to present some decent indication of the gear's condition. Most people want to buy something and use it, not bother with trying to fix it. If you don't say anything, people will price the risk of gear being in very poor condition into the final sales price.
For lenses:
Mechanics: move the aperature and focus ring. Do they move freely and smoothly?
Open the aperture and hold it up to an LED light. Can you see clearly through it? Does it look hazy or have any spider-like growth. Are there bubbles in the glass? Generally haze can be cleaned by a pro, but spider-like growth (fungus) or bubbles (seperation) are can permently effect the photos and the lens.
Are the scratches? Minor scratches which generally come from cleaning are common and do not really effect picture quality.For the camera:
Wind and Release the shutter. (Your camera will require two small strokes of the winder lever). Did it go smoothly? Repeat at different shutter speeds. Try to time the opening of the shutter curtain at one second and a half second. Are they accurate?
Look through the viewfinder? Is it clear?
Attached a lens. Change the focus on the lens while looking through the viewfinder. A second image should move. How distinct is the second image? Try it indoors
Look at the shutter curtain. Does it appear to be wrinkled or have any tiny holes?What you have:
The Camera: In case you don't know, you have an early double stroke M3, unless it was converted to a single stroke later. It is an M mount camera. It'll probably go for $450-$700.
The Lenses: In general, Are you lenses M mount or screw mount. That'll be important in the description. With earlier Leicas , you screwed the lens onto the camera. The later M mount camera is a bayonet. You could get an adapter that screwed onto the screw lens mount to convert it into an M mount. True M mount lenses tend to carry a little more value as they are newer, although screw mount lenses are a bit more versitile because they can be used on screw mount cameras or M cameras. Basically see if the base screws off or not
Summicron 5cm: This is an early version of the Summicron. If it is a screwmount, it'll fetch around $200-250. If M mount perhaps $100 more.
Summaron 3.5cm: A very capable lens. It'll fetch around $200 if it is a screwmount, and perhaps $100 more if an M mount.
Elmar 9cm: A decent, common lens. Worth about $80.
Hektor 13.5cm: This lens looks like it has some haze on the glass. Overall not a valuable lens. If clean, probably worth around $75.
The lens hood can actually be decently valuable. List them seperately from the lenses.
The value of your stuff really depends on the condition. Some of the lens hoods are decently valuable as well. Assuming everything works reasonably well and you go through the effort of attesting to the condition, here is a nice guide (http://www.antiquecameras.net/home.html) :
The best indication of function is to expose and print a roll of film. Use each lens. Use each shutter speed. Use the attached meter for metering.
Drive across town with the gear and get a quote to buy it from KEH.
List it for sale here. Buyers here actually appreciate and use this equipment.
Hello:
You have an early M3 with a complete lens kit and most of the accessory "bits" such as lens caps and sunshades. The best thing is to keep it and use it to take photographs.
A gentle clean and assessment of the lenses will tell you if they are usable "as is".
A CLA ( clean, lubricate, adjust) for the M3 is about $200 and each lens ~$80-150.
The entire kit has considerable value.
yours
FPJ
Pickett Wilson
07-21-2009, 12:37
Just from what I can tell by looking at the pictures, especially the corrosion on the M meter and M3, it looks like it was stored in damp conditions. Probably everything there would need a CLA, and then it wouldn't be very pretty.
Condition, as has been mentioned, is everything.
Listen to venchka (and others above).
yours
FPJ
Oscar Levant
07-21-2009, 12:45
The guy just obviously wants to know what it's worth. He doesn't want to "bury them with his grandfather" and I think that's an insane sentiment.
He's not into the cameras. They are objects, not emotional baggage. You don't bury a house or a car with a deceased relative, you sell them.
Sell each piece separately. Take clear photos of each. Look with a flashlight through each lens for haze, scratches, etc.
Don't waste money "fixing" them. You'll end up with a huge loss, problems, and a mess. Tell the story how you got them the same as you did here. (the stuff looks far from mint, lenses have visible haze). Start the bidding at a dollar and you'll get what the equipment is worth. High starting prices usually bring far less bids and lower prices.
I'll guess you get $700-$1000 for everything, maybe even a little less.
.
Sigh. Just list it on ebay and be done with it.
tennis-joe
07-21-2009, 13:19
I wish I would have inherited something from my grandfathers as they died before I was born. I assume he had no connection to his grandfather and just needs the money? Sad if you ask me if this is the truth. Somehow I don't know if I believe it or maybe I like cameras and photography.
Joe
List the lenses with caps. List the lens hoods seperately. Depending on scarcity, hoods can bring more than the lens.
Roger Hicks
07-21-2009, 14:04
I wish I would have inherited something from my grandfathers as they died before I was born.
Dear Joe,
Seconded. Both my grandfathers died in WW2. My maternal grandfather was on the Russian convoys: my paternal grandfather on HMS Gloucester off Crete. George (my paternal grandfather) was an enthusiastic amateur photographer, which is why my father supported me so enthusiastically when I started showing an interest in 1966.
If the money isn't all that important, I'd urge the OP to give the kit to a young photographer (20-30) who would really appreciate it and use it. Sentimental? Yes. So?
Tashi delek,
R.
Wow - this is a great forum! Very robust range of opinions and lots of activity. I appreciate all the comments.
I wish I would have inherited something from my grandfathers as they died before I was born. I assume he had no connection to his grandfather and just needs the money? Sad if you ask me if this is the truth. Somehow I don't know if I believe it or maybe I like cameras and photography.
Joe
Lol - quite the opposite according to my wife at least. My grandfather's hobbies included gardening and woodworking and collecting cranberry glass. You can see on my website barefamily dot com that I have enjoyed his influence in those areas. Not to bore you with details but the barn I built in the backyard from recycled wood is a replica of his shanty up north. (click on the barn pic on the site for more info) Perhaps more interesting is that I am currently transposing his WWII daily diaries into Word so that the content can be preserved. Very interesting reading!
Benjamin
07-21-2009, 15:22
...If the money isn't all that important, I'd urge the OP to give the kit to a young photographer (20-30) who would really appreciate it and use it. Sentimental? Yes. So?
Tashi delek,
R.
I would agree with this, if you can afford to that is. I hope never to sell any of my cameras ever, well the ones that I like anyway, and I hope that I can give them to somewhen that will use them when I am past it.
Lovely to see all the kit together by the way. You might also feel a bit different about it if you were to have it all serviced and cleaned up. Could make a nice and cabable kit after a good CLA.
Damn,I hope my grand kids think more of me.
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 02:24
Before you're cold on the floor, your most favorite and precious stuff will be on eBay or at the pawn shop for pennies on the dollar.
Damn,I hope my grand kids think more of me.
Pickett Wilson
07-22-2009, 02:26
This thread has me to thinking. I have no kids or grandkids to worry about, so I'll have myself cremated and the Leicas buried in a sealed coffin. That will be a head scratcher for archeologists 1,000 years from now. ;)
Seriously, if you aren't interested in photography, sell the stuff and move on. Cameras are just stuff.
buzzardkid
07-22-2009, 02:32
Please don't sell it on eBay, like the many other people I see.
Too late, It's already on there. US only, USD 2,500 BIN/make offer. Thats gonna buy a nice mediocre compact for sure, dude!
Seems a bit odd, putting it up for grabs and then asking us if we are willing to pay more than the price he put on it, eh?
At least he's selling as a set, so someone that can appreciate this gear will have the chance to acquire an authentic historical set.
I'm with Wayne, my gear goes into the casket with me if there are no offspring available that I trust with it.
Pickett Wilson
07-22-2009, 02:54
Well, it doesn't seem to be generating a lot of action. He says on the ad that the camera works well, but looking at the condition of the camera, I doubt that seriously. Too bad.
So,
There are only 2 things you can do:
1 - sell everything, get whatever money you get for it and do whatever you need to do with your life
or
2- send it to one of the reliable repairmen for a CLA (I think the light meter is probably useless, you will need a new one), put some film into it and start taking pictures like someone who is curious of exploring an entirely different world
Yes, this camera equipment are the keys to a door which can open a completely new world of seeing to you, appreciating its beauty and sharpening up your sensibility as a human being
It will be like knowing a new language, or like travelling to China 1000 years before anybody else from outside
Read this:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/05/a-leica-year.html
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 03:49
The way he's selling it is extremely foolish, and he's almost certain to get a very low price or no sale.
And if he does sell it, he's setting himself up for a return or a dispute.
After this whole thread, he ignores all advice, so at the rate he's going, the romanticists may have their wish and the junk will be buried with Gramps.
For the eBay-challenged, here's where you can watch the train wreck:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-M3-Rangefinder-Camera-four-lenses-2-light-meters_W0QQitemZ230358186070
It's bizarre to me how people become attached to their equipment, with vows of "taking to the grave", never selling, etc.
Others just don't get it and keep insisting he keep the equipment, fix it, and use it. This is a forum of emotionally attached aficionados. Is it so hard to conceptualize that other people just don't share your enthusiasm for obsolete Leica gear, and just want to sell it? You act like he's selling a child. To most people, the stuff is just junk, not a fetish object like to you.
Rick Waldroup
07-22-2009, 03:55
When I die, I don't want a damn thing buried with me. Cameras are just tools to be used, not objects of adoration. Besides, I have gone through so many different types of cameras over the years, I would not know where to start. I can just see me telling my kids, "Hey, when the old man kicks the bucket, make sure you drop that Ricoh GRD in the coffin, will ya?"
I once purchased a IIIb kit in distressed condition and sent the body to DAG for a CLA. I definitely paid more than the going rate. However, the IIIB is my second most used camera and my most elegant one. So, I consider the money well spent.
It was made during the "phony war" and its owner was a gentleman who survived the camps.
yours
FPJ
A bit of clarification if I may...
My grandkids are pretty sharp. Maybe they will appreciate my stuff. Maybe one or more of them will actually want to use my stuff. At the very least, someone will display Grandpa's Antiques.
On the other hand, if they are clueless about the gear, and sell it to fund their other habits, I would hope that they avoid ebay. Otherwise, just toss the stuff in the hole after me.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Wayne
OK, I visited the ebay listing.
"What a Maroon!"
For me it is odd that you titled this thread "Grandfather's M3 now mine - advice?"
Someone new to Leicas would call them it a "Leica" rather than refer to them by model number.
If you can spare the time to research model numbers, match caps to lenses and arrange the items for your photos, I would spend a little more time and run some film through the cameras and describe the condition of the shutter curtains and VF/RF.
I hope I'm not being impertinent, it's not my intention. Most people are jaded by the thousands of "this was my grandads, but I know nothing" listings on the internet, but they nearly always take the effort to research how much they will get...
As has been mentioned before, $1000 perhaps for this stuff, although I wouldn't buy it - there's probably at least the same amount of money required to get it working properly.
Al Kaplan
07-22-2009, 05:56
I've already had "The Discussion" with my son about disposing of my stuff (or keeping it) and how to determine current values. He knows that hoods can be worth more than the lenses, Leitz booklets have value.
Over the years I've traded photography for paintings and drawings with artists nobody at the time had ever heard of. My son knows which ones have sentimental value for me, and maybe for him as well, but otherwise could go to Good Will. He also knows which ones should go to Christies and could finance my grandaughter's college tuition all the way through med or law school.
My most recent wife is an antique dealer and I've seen a lot of Rollies, Leicas, Hassselblads, etc. sold by the children as "Grandpa's old film cameras" for next to nothing. Some of those boxes of old cameras looked like they were hardly used, but the kids didn't have a clue as to what they were selling or what it might be worth.
I have to say the passion exhibited here certainly indicates that photography is an art form:) Not that it should make any difference but I am in my mid thirties, married and have a small fry. Wife and I both work, enjoy the small town we live in outside of the ATL and take things a day at a time.
Damn,I hope my grand kids think more of me.
I was chatting with my wife about this thread last night and we both felt that we would feel more loved and respected by our hopeful eventual grandchildren not by the possessions of ours that they kept but by the positive influences and life lessons that they remembered and learned from.
Before you're cold on the floor, your most favorite and precious stuff will be on eBay or at the pawn shop for pennies on the dollar.
Sucks that you can't take it with you eh? Ooh - I've got an idea. You could employ a whole bunch of slaves and build a big pile of tons of rock with a little bitty room underneath it. Then at least you get to keep your stuff with you for maybe a thousand years or so until the British dig it up and stick it in a museum:)
C'mon - isn't this one of the reasons you are drawn to photography? To preserve a moment in time, to share a perspective, to capture human emotion in a medium that might have an impact for generations?
My grandfather was a practical person and a business man. He wasn't wasteful and certainly wouldn't want me to hang on to his Leica if I wasn't going to use it.
Too late, It's already on there. US only, USD 2,500 BIN/make offer. Thats gonna buy a nice mediocre compact for sure, dude!
Seems a bit odd, putting it up for grabs and then asking us if we are willing to pay more than the price he put on it, eh?
At least he's selling as a set, so someone that can appreciate this gear will have the chance to acquire an authentic historical set.
I'm with Wayne, my gear goes into the casket with me if there are no offspring available that I trust with it.
I'm right here - no need to refer to me in the 3rd person:) Yes - it is currently on ebay. I've already ran it through once and received a couple offers in the 600 to 1000 dollar range. I've used ebay for over 10 years and bought and sold lots of items with overall good luck. I understand there are ebay haters out there just like there are Starbucks and Apple and Walmart haters.
I did NOT offer it for sale in this thread and am certainly not trying to hide anything - gosh, I see now how rumors get started!
The way he's selling it is extremely foolish, and he's almost certain to get a very low price or no sale.
And if he does sell it, he's setting himself up for a return or a dispute.
After this whole thread, he ignores all advice, so at the rate he's going, the romanticists may have their wish and the junk will be buried with Gramps.
For the eBay-challenged, here's where you can watch the train wreck:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-M3-Rangefinder-Camera-four-lenses-2-light-meters_W0QQitemZ230358186070
It's bizarre to me how people become attached to their equipment, with vows of "taking to the grave", never selling, etc.
Others just don't get it and keep insisting he keep the equipment, fix it, and use it. This is a forum of emotionally attached aficionados. Is it so hard to conceptualize that other people just don't share your enthusiasm for obsolete Leica gear, and just want to sell it? You act like he's selling a child. To most people, the stuff is just junk, not a fetish object like to you.
Hey Oscar - I'm right here - looking for input from the enthusiast for how best to present this item. I can modify or pull the ebay ad at any time...
OK, I visited the ebay listing.
"What a Maroon!"
Maroon? as in a dark brownish red or to to put ashore and abandon on a desolate island or coast by way of punishment or the like, as was done by buccaneers?
For me it is odd that you titled this thread "Grandfather's M3 now mine - advice?"
Someone new to Leicas would call them it a "Leica" rather than refer to them by model number.
If you can spare the time to research model numbers, match caps to lenses and arrange the items for your photos, I would spend a little more time and run some film through the cameras and describe the condition of the shutter curtains and VF/RF.
I hope I'm not being impertinent, it's not my intention. Most people are jaded by the thousands of "this was my grandads, but I know nothing" listings on the internet, but they nearly always take the effort to research how much they will get...
As has been mentioned before, $1000 perhaps for this stuff, although I wouldn't buy it - there's probably at least the same amount of money required to get it working properly.
One of my hobbies is cars - especially bavarian sports cars and so the choice of going with just the model number was probably driven by the BMW with the same designation. Sorry - I am sure that is sacrilege to bring up as the Leica was certainly the first to use that name:) Thanks for the advice.
Well said Josh.
Listen guys, as Josh says you got some passion which is great, but his passion is not the same or for the same things as yours/ours. There is nothing wrong with that. Sounds like he has his head screwed on pretty well even if you think he should keep the kit.
That said please be respectful and courteous in your discussion, no need to pass judgement, since your judgement is just an opinion and as wrong as everyone elses here, including Josh's.
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 06:17
You were told clearly how to sell the stuff.
1) Each item separate, even the hoods and caps. Take clear photos of each and describe the flaws to the best of your ability. If a lens is fogged, say so. If you're not sure all functions of the camera work, say so. Don't get into a dispute with the buyer after the sale.
2) Start the auctions at one dollar. Reserves, "best offers", high starting prices, all are proven to produce LOWER prices than if you start them at a dollar and let the market price get reached. Getting newbies and people who don't understand eBay into bidding wars and having them trying to "stay on top" works to your benefit.
3) Don't wimp out if the price seems low towards the end of the auction. Most big bids come in during the last ten seconds. Something sitting at $100 will suddenly jump to $500 when the experienced buyers jump in to snipe. You can see the number of "watchers" to gauge how popular the auction is.
4) When you list the camera or lens, sell the manual in another auction. Make sure you mention you are selling the manuals, lenses and other items in every auction so buyers look at your other listings.
5) If you sell something over $250, make sure you ship with SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION to the CONFIRMED ADDRESS ONLY.
buzzardkid
07-22-2009, 06:21
I'm perfectly aware you are right here Josh, but from the looks of it the thread you started will be here a lot longer than you. Too bad.
I suppose you are able to swallow your grandkids selling off your sportscars without ever driving them since they own a Daihatsu already.
The love of German craftmanship obviously runs in your family, I'm pretty sure you would warm up to the set on sale if you would clean it up a little and run a roll of film through to assess its current condition.
I'm not judging here, just puzzled. Anyway, good luck on the sale.
chikarin
07-22-2009, 06:22
looking at his ebay feedback i would say he knows how to sell on ebay...
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 06:22
PS: Having said that, the condition of your stuff is only about 4-5 on a scale of one to ten.
I think you'll end up with around $1000 for it all, give or take a couple of hundred. You'd never recoup your money if you had the camera or lenses professionally cleaned or repaired.
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 06:23
He may know how to sell things within his niche, but cameras and lenses require other techniques sometimes.
looking at his ebay feedback i would say he knows how to sell on ebay...
Hi Josh,
this is my guess what you can expect if you sell the items individually, assuming each is clean and working:
Leica M3 camera: US 500-700
Leica Hektor f=13.5cm 1:4.5: US 100-150
Leica Elmar f=9cm 1:4: US 100-150
Leica Summicron f=5cm 1:2: US 300
Leica Summaron f=3.5cm 1:3.5 lense: US 200-250
Leica Meter: US 50
Weston Master II Universal Exposure Meter: US 50?
Then per hood around US 50, if not out of shape, and maybe US 20 per cap if sold indivually.
You will likely get less for the kit since it's hard to assess how clean the items are.
Like Oscar said, better to put them up individually at NR, with 1$ starting price, ending on a Sun morning in the US.
I would add the manuals to the items, might push their price up.
And, BTW, very likely that some of your buyers will be RFF members, who will take their cameras to their grave :)
Cheers,
Roland.
chris00nj
07-22-2009, 06:33
The way he's selling it is extremely foolish, and he's almost certain to get a very low price or no sale.
And if he does sell it, he's setting himself up for a return or a dispute.
After this whole thread, he ignores all advice, so at the rate he's going, the romanticists may have their wish and the junk will be buried with Gramps.
For the eBay-challenged, here's where you can watch the train wreck:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-M3-Rangefinder-Camera-four-lenses-2-light-meters_W0QQitemZ230358186070
Well I had wasted 20 minutes telling him exactly how he should inspect and why it was important to add some addition descriptions to the equipment listing. He didn't even mention the lens hoods in the ad.
He's dillusional if he thinks someone will pay $2500 for that set. Even if it was properly inspected, described, and in reasonable working condition, I can only see this set getting $1500 at most.
With the way he's described it (or not described it), I think he would be hard pressed to get $1000.
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 06:40
$500-$700 for the camera is very optimistic. Prices are way down, even for mint stuff.
$50 for the Leica meter?? I don't think he'll even get a bid for $10
Josh,
In the absence of precise descriptions, you should list this sale "As is. No Returns." Otherwise, you may be in for a lot of grief.
Donating to a worthy school with a real film program and taking a tax deduction may be the most profitable way to go.
Good luck.
mabelsound
07-22-2009, 06:57
Damn,I hope my grand kids think more of me.
What an insulting, asinine thing to say. This guy wants information on his grandfather's camera gear, and you're telling him he didn't love the old man enough? What kind of crap is that?
When somebody is dead, their descendents are not required to be interested in the same things they were. You owe this guy an apology.
If it were my stuff, and i didn't want it, I'd list it all in one big lot and start the bidding at a buck with no reserve, and let the chips fall where they may. $2500 has no chance of happening, I don't think. Good luck to the OP, and I'm sorry you lost your grandfather.
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 06:59
Whether you claim "as is, no returns" in your auction is meaningless.
PayPal will force you to accept a return from an unhappy buyer no matter what the terms in the auction state.
Josh,
In the absence of precise descriptions, you should list this sale "As is. No Returns." Otherwise, you may be in for a lot of grief.
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 07:01
Absolutely correct, there are a lot of people here with delusional ideas about the sentimental value of hobby objects.
When you kick the bucket, it doesn't matter if they bury you in a coffin full of your favorites cameras or with 50 pounds of horse manure, you won't know the difference.
What an insulting, asinine thing to say. This guy wants information on his grandfather's camera gear, and you're telling him he didn't love the old man enough? What kind of crap is that?
When somebody is dead, their descendants are not required to be interested in the same things they were. You owe this guy an apology.
If it were my stuff, and i didn't want it, I'd list it all in one big lot and start the bidding at a buck with no reserve, and let the chips fall where they may. $2500 has no chance of happening, I don't think. Good luck to the OP, and I'm sorry you lost your grandfather.
When you kick the bucket, it doesn't matter if they bury you in a coffin full of your favorites cameras or with 50 pounds of horse manure, you won't know the difference.
This is a candidate for the "common sense wall".
Al Kaplan
07-22-2009, 07:23
It's a good idea to make a detailed list of your better photography equipment, art work, jewelry, etc. along with information on how to get it appraised, and where/how to best sell it. Give copies to your spouse/partner and each of your kids, and put one together with your will in your safe deposit box. Hopefully they'll be too upset over your death to be in a frame of mind to do it themselves.
Whether you claim "as is, no returns" in your auction is meaningless.
PayPal will force you to accept a return from an unhappy buyer no matter what the terms in the auction state.
Thanks. I didn't know that. I don't buy from ebay nor do I use PayPal.
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 07:36
"Thank god the old alte-cocker is gone. One more day and I would go crazy. I never have to listen to his cranky voice again!"
"You said it. Now we can clean out all that filthy camera trash and sell the house. His car is pretty good, you want it?"
"Yeah, it's like new, a 2007 Acura. Get the neighbor's kid in here to throw all those smelly negatives away, they're taking up a whole room. We can't sell the house if it's full of garbage."
"You want his cameras?"
"Nah, they're old. Some of them are so dirty they might be diseased. The guy was nuts. Just put them in the trash or give them to the kids to sell on eBay."
"I'm so happy we can clear out all this old crap. He's got an online blog. Cancel the web-hosting, its embarassing for us. He posted any crazy stuff that came into his head and all those weirdo photos. Someone might sue us."
"What a relief. You want to order a pizza? I'm starving"
First let me say the advice posted here has been noted and is well appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to type out the detailed estimated values too. I suppose that since some of you all have conflicting opinions that I won't be able to make everyone happy no matter what:(
Oscar - I can see that even though you just joined the forum as well that you are going to have a respectable post count in no time:p
I listed the camera at that BIN price because I wasn't sure what it was worth as a set with the documentation and I didn't want to leave money on the table. The auction is setup to accept offers for consideration as well.
I actually had another Leica that belonged to a great uncle that I already did the low starting price no reserve strategy on. It went for less than I was hoping hence a different strategy on this one. Here is the link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&item=230348719006) to the completed auction - might have to be an ebay member to see it as it is over.
As an aside - I've found on ebay that in the heydays a couple years ago you could list items at a buck with no reserve and feel reasonably confident the market would ensure a fair price. In a depressed economy though unless you have to sell quick I have better luck listing items available for immediate purchase at a researched fair price. Something about the item being available to anyone at any moment drives a purchase even if the item might be found at a lower price at the end of an auction. Some people hate the stress of scheduling for the end of an auction and then fighting off snipers in the last 10 seconds.
I do like photography and have some pictures I've taken that I'd like to think turned out well - although I am sure they fall way short of the ones you all post out here. I just prefer the ability to focus through the viewfinder and don't want to have to deal with carrying around the gear required with a professional camera.
thomasw_
07-22-2009, 08:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by robin a http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/themes/graphite/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1098964#post1098964)
Damn,I hope my grand kids think more of me.What an insulting, asinine thing to say. This guy wants information on his grandfather's camera gear, and you're telling him he didn't love the old man enough? What kind of crap is that?
When somebody is dead, their descendants are not required to be interested in the same things they were. You owe this guy an apology....
Wise words, Mabelsound. I do not like to golf and I have no intention of picking up the sport. My father loves the sport and excels at it. When he dies, if no one in the family shares his passion for golf, his equipment will be sold to someone who wants it. I fail to see how Josh's situation is any different. How in anyway is keeping my dad's unused clubs around going to honour his memory?
Some here need to step back and get some perspective. Josh is in no way tarnishing his grandfather's memory by selling off his old, seemingly long-unused equipment.
The stuff looks to be in horrible shape, Josh. I think getting around what Roland suggested -ferider- would be very lucky. Strange transactions do occur, but you are going for the unknowing bidder in your current auction. Bear in mind most folks into Leica know a bit about it. The cost to bring that kit back to useable shape would be close to a grand. Honestly I wouldn't buy that kit off of you for more than 500 to 600USD because I know I'd be spending about 1K on CLA/repairs. This assumes the Viewfinder in that M3 is clear, too. If a M3 VF sucks, the resilvering fix is very expensive.
My 2 cents.
Respectfully,
Thomas
Oscar Levant
07-22-2009, 08:48
You got pretty much the market price on the IIIC.
One "lens" is a LENS not "lense".
Multiple lenses are "lenses".
"I am selling one lens"
"I am selling three lenses"
This is an error of the highest magnitude and you're at risk of being considered an illiterate and hence you'll get lower bids.
Oscar - I can see that even though you just joined the forum as well that you are going to have a respectable post count in no time:p
My most recent wife is an antique dealer and I've seen a lot of Rollies, Leicas, Hassselblads, etc. sold by the children as "Grandpa's old film cameras" for next to nothing. Some of those boxes of old cameras looked like they were hardly used, but the kids didn't have a clue as to what they were selling or what it might be worth.
Here in Germany it's most often the opposite of what you describe. I usually have some WTB ads placed in local papers and usually I encounter people who inherited some old camera, who think they hit the jackpot. Everything that is old and has some famous name like Rollei, Leica, Hasselblad is supposed to be scoring several thousands at least.
Recently someone called and offered me quite a broad variety of Leicas and lenses he got from his grandparents. When I told him the normal price an M4 would score he became snobbish, claiming that he sold a Noctilux for 6000 EUR - I asked if it was an f1.2, he replied: "Heavens no, it was the better one: f1.". He expected the M4 to score around 2000 EUR (used, dented, no box, unknown mechanical condition). I wished him good luck.
buzzardkid
07-22-2009, 09:04
Josh,
to optimise hits, list the auction title like: "Leica M3, Summicron, Elmar, Summaron, accessories"
Take a moment to consider, if looking for Leica camera gear, what would you enter to search? 'Lenses' will not get you anywhere. 'rangefinder' won't do the trick either.
Again, like others said, its best to end this auction NOW, break up the set and significantly add to the description of items, or you might be in for a lot of trouble. The condition of none of the items is described satisfactory, any buyer of the set through the current ad will surely give you a hard time and PayPal will force you to refund.
EDIT: This is a well meant advice, I'm not planning to buy any of the sets pieces, being in The Netherlands and being the owner of nice gear already.
why did anyone even respond to the original post? they get these things all the time on Pnet, i would hate to see it start to happen here.
bob
why did anyone even respond to the original post? they get these things all the time on Pnet, i would hate to see it start to happen here.
bob
With such a huge potential customer base, the threads are un-avoidable, Bob. But if we believe we are different from pnet, we might want to treat them differently than pnet would.
Roland.
Benjamin
07-22-2009, 11:01
Yes, why is it that Pnet is so aggressive? Whenever I look at a thread there, I'm not a member or whatever, someone get's roasted and usually immediately.
With such a huge potential customer base, the threads are un-avoidable, Bob. But if we believe we are different from pnet, we might want to treat them differently than pnet would.
Roland.
you have a point. i got uppity about it because this is the last place where these threads don't turn up every day.
bob
I think we all benefit from the collective experience here.
Josh, are you paying attention?
Al Kaplan
07-22-2009, 11:30
P-net does it for the same reason that some talk radio shows do it. People like the craziness. The dishonesty starts at the top, where the Leica Forum is dominated by friends of the moderator. The whole lot of them shoot digital and make fun of Leica users, but they like that contrasty grainy look of overdeveloped Tri-X so they discuss how to best achieve that with P-shop.
I think we all benefit from the collective experience here.
Josh, are you paying attention?
Yes sir. BTW - lovely botanical shots in your gallery. The plant you labeled "pin cushion" is a coneflower also known as Echinacea. It appears there is a cool red hot poker plant behind that and probably phlox to the left.
I rooted through some of my own pics for a coneflower shot and the one that I found certainly paled in comparison in quality.
Thank you so much.
This is what Josh is talking about.
http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/97013-2/Pin+Cushions.jpg
Taken with the Leica my grandkids will get someday. LOL!
chris00nj
07-22-2009, 17:48
...
I actually had another Leica that belonged to a great uncle that I already did the low starting price no reserve strategy on. It went for less than I was hoping hence a different strategy on this one. Here is the link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&item=230348719006) to the completed auction - might have to be an ebay member to see it as it is over....
I'm surprised you got even that for that Leica IIIc. I'm not sure what you were expecting? First off, it's a IIIf. I'm not even sure what the lens is. There are 3 possibilities.
Why would someone pay top dollar for camera and lenses that they knew little about? There was scant indication that the equipment is in working order. You wrote that the shutter "seems to work correctly." What about the shutter curtain, the viewfinder, etc?
People selling broken cameras or hazy lenses claiming "that they don't know anything about cameras" are very common. We're certainly not going to pay the price of a camera in excellent shape when there is little description. Lack of information increases risk. This is priced into the final sales price.
historicist
07-22-2009, 18:05
There's nothing wrong with selling things you have no interest in yourself, but I agree, this is not the best way to sell them.
This is a really high price for some items in average condition, none of which are especially rare, unusual or valuable, and sold by someone who does not know much about them. From the buyers point of view, there is a lot of uncertainty about them - it is not possible to see the items in detail, and there is a fair risk that they may have some defects that the seller - with the best will in the world - is not aware of because he doesn't know too much about this kind of thing. Plus the price being asked would be high even if they were from a reputable dealer and in top condition.
I can't see this selling unless you get super lucky with an idiot buyer.
Can you sell on consignment with a dealer? Might be worth considering if you don't know how to price or describe the items in the best way possible.
A friend of mine recommended I send the camera to a company called Tamarkin in CT. Has anyone had any business dealings with them? I searched on the forum and it looks like they are well recommended.
Stan Tamarkin is a highly reputable dealer. That said, he specialize in equipment which is in very good condition or rare. Objectively, it looks like your grandfather put his equipment to good use. I would say it can't hurt to send the photographs you have to him and ask if he have any interest. You may ask and Stan may offer an appraisal if that is all you are looking for.
I suspect though that any dealer will only offer you 50-60% of what they believe they can sell an item for. They need to make their margin.
If I were you I would do some research, which you have started here, regarding the value of the items you have, which some opinions are expressed here, and then list them in a targeted marketplace, like we have here. There are other photo and Leica forums and markets too, RFF is just one.
My opinion, $2,500 is too much for your kit. I think a more reasonable price is around $1,500 for the kit, but that is a big nut in this economy. For that reason alone you I think you will have an easier time selling the items individually.
Dave Wilkinson
07-23-2009, 07:23
I only have my grandfather's clock.....but it stopped short - never to go again - when the old man died! :(
Dave.
Damn,I hope my grand kids think more of me.
Gee,expressing one's thoughts got this much ire..........WONDERFUL !!!
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