Developing Tanks...

[LeicaVirgin1]

Dear Tom-

Have you ever used those plastic types of 35mm film developing spools that have the little ball bearings? It is a hit & miss with me. I sometimes get cinch/crease marks that permanently etch themselves on the developed negative. Am I doing this wrong? It sometimes is a battle to get the film on those spools. Should I invest in a metal types; stainless steel?

I only invested in them because I had heard & read they were easier then the older traditional types.

In closing, what is your opinion of 35mm film negative squeeges to remove excess water & wetting agent from the negs.?

Looking forward to your answers.

Best,

LV1

[MarkoKovacevic]

My opinion: Buy quality ones, such as the patterson brand. I have a 2nd tank/reels[cheap brand] to increase output and its a lot more difficult, and mostly, less sure if your film is gonna crinkle, with the cheap ones. I have never had a problem with patterson reels, as long as they are dry!

[ludoo]

Yesterday I got fed up with my films getting stuck halfway through in my Paterson reels, and I attacked one of them with a very small screwdriver wrapped in toilet paper, and some alcohol. After a good 15 minutes of rubbing the spiral rails, and lots of black smears on the paper, I managed to load a couple of films smoothly till the end. It may be that your reels are just dirty, like mines were.

[ruby.monkey]

Squeegies are the invention of the Devil. :) I kept getting scratches on the film from them, no matter how well I cleaned them. Nowadays I hold the film up at an angle for a minute (gives me a chance to have a quick first look at the images, too) before hanging it up to dry, to let the water drain to one side.

Reels should be absolutely clean and dry, or else the film snatches and binds. I gave up and switched to steel reels, which I find no problem to load (after the first practice roll or two).

[bsdunek]

I use a photo sponge on my negatives to wipe the excess water off. Keep them clean and use them lightly - I have no problem with scratching.

[Ducky]

They all work with practice.
Some work better than others.
None of them work unless they are clean and dry.

[Sjixxxy]

I love my patterson reels with the little ball bearings. The secret I've discovered to using them without getting jams and crinkles, is to load them with the 36th frame going in first, instead of the first frame. The natural curl of the film better matches the sprial of the reels with way and they tend to load much easier. If this doesn't make sense, I wrote this post for my web site (http://www.kpraslowicz.com/2009/04/11/the-secret-to-loading-35mm-film-for-development/) a few months back to help explain/illustrate the concept.

[Tom A]

I use Paterson reels and rarely have troubles loading them. However, you need to clean them regularly (use an old toothbrush) and check that the small steel balls are moving freely.
One way of doing a initial clean of Paterson reels is to run them through your dishwasher! That gets some of the dirt of them. The use the toothbrush and clean out the tracks. You dont have to do that after every use - once every 6 month is enough, depending on how many rolls you go through.
You can get film to "crinkle" too, if you cut the leader off and cut through a sprocket - with unswerving accuracy that "edge" will curl up and jam the reel!!!!
When you use Photo Flo in the final rinse - I also finds that this sticks to the reel and it can get a bit sticky from it,
I never use a squeege to dry film. Too many scratches!! I hang the film up to dry and usually leave it overnight.

[Keith]

I bought a small Jobo tank a while ago and as much as it appears to have a superior lid sealing system to the Paterson the reel is strange ... entry slots for the film like the Paterson but without the ball bearings. I haven't quite figured out exactly how you're supposed to feed the film ... I tend to grip the outside of the film on the right as I twist then release and rotate the right side back and repeat the movement. It seems to work OK but it's fiddly!

Does anyone else use this type of Jobo reel?

[Benjamin]

I bought a small Jobo tank a while ago and as much as it appears to have a superior lid sealing system to the Paterson the reel is strange ... entry slots for the film like the Paterson but without the ball bearings. I haven't quite figured out exactly how you're supposed to feed the film ... I tend to grip the outside of the film on the right as I twist then release and rotate the right side back and repeat the movement. It seems to work OK but it's fiddly!

Does anyone else use this type of Jobo reel?

Hi Keith, I have a couple of those Jobo tanks and reels as well but I didn't really get the point of them and just stuck with the Patterson system instead. If it ain't broke, etcetera etcetera..

Also, I agree that Tom A's suggestion of putting the reels through the dishwasher every once in a while is a good one. If they still feel a bit sticky before I need to use them I occassionally wash them again quickly with hot water and dry them off quickly.

Sjixxxy's method of loading the reels is also a good way to start, though I think most people end up finding a way that works for them with these things, dependant upon your equipment and work flow.

[Al Kaplan]

Once you get the knack of loading a stainless steel reel you'll wonder why you ever bothered using plastic.

[Benjamin]

Once you get the knack of loading a stainless steel reel you'll wonder why you ever bothered using plastic.

Hi Al, I have a single stainless (Ilford) tank, and I've never used it or try to load even a film onto it.

So what is the great advantage of using stainless anyway? The only thing I can guess is that they are more rugged i.e, you can chuck them in a bag. Are they easier to load or something?

[ruby.monkey]

Once you get the knack of loading a stainless steel reel you'll wonder why you ever bothered using plastic.
It seemed a good idea at the time. :) And if anyone near London needs a twin-reel System IV tank and half a dozen reels (and that blasted squeegie), you're welcome to 'em.

[Keith]

Once you get the knack of loading a stainless steel reel you'll wonder why you ever bothered using plastic.


Hi Al,

I discovered I was able to load a stainles 35mm reel comfortably but MF had me really struggling ... I damaged a film on one occasion and that discouraged me!

Some of those damned 120 films are like a coiled spring ... especially some of the older stock with a fairly heavy base. Stretch them out and let one end go and they can just about take your eye out! :p

[LeicaVirgin1]

To all who commented on my post... Thank you all for your generous and very good advise. I use the Patterson version, (2 reels). It was easy at first, but well, you know...

I will clean them & see how that goes. Funny thing is I invested in a Patterson squeege thinking that it would be the BEST... Hardy, har, har. You live, you learn, you drink & smoke more because of it. :bang:

Thanks again,

LV1

[Al Kaplan]

I find SS easy to load. I first did it back in 1961. It was what every studio, newspaper, custom lab used back then. Try to use new reels or reels that you are sure aren't bent. Second hand reels may look okay and still cause loading problems. On ther other hand, once you get to "know" your reels you shouldn't have a problem. As you turn the reel you let the film get under the wire coil for half a turn or so, then you push the film slightly so it goes up against wire. Push, pull, push, pull...and make sure the cap is on before turning on the lights. Cell phones light up so either turn it off or hide it in your pocket.

[Morca007]

Once you get the knack of loading a stainless steel reel you'll wonder why you ever bothered using plastic.

My little stainless tank and reel set is the least used piece of my developing kit. I can load it just fine, but it's much more of a pita to use than my arista plastic reels.

[Tom A]

Plastic reels are easy once you get used to them - but unless they are bone-dry they can frustrate even the best of us.
Stainless are fine - but I find that some thin films (Acros/Tech Pan/ Minicopy II etc) are more prone to mishaps!
Another problem is simply the size of the stainless tanks. They usually do 1000 ml/4 reels and with some developers that is just not enough developer.
If you ever drop a stainless reel - just throw it out! Even with the slightest misaligned you are stuck.
Over the years I have accumulated a multitude of Paterson reel ( about 100) - one good reason for going to swapmeets. This way I am sure that I have a set of dry ones when needed.
I also have to keep only one type of reels for 35mm and 120 films.

[mabelsound]

I did Paterson for a year, and they work well. But I bought some Hewes steel reels a few weeks ago and my entire attitude toward steel reels has changed. they are superb, and much much better than other steel reels.

[oscroft]

I use nothing but Paterson plastic reels with ball bearings, and as long as they're clean and dry, I never have a problem. I use a hair drier to make sure they're really dry - people do sometimes wonder why I have one, as I have no hair.

Cheers,

[mgd711]

I recently switched to SS reel's (Hewes brand). The 35mm reels are simply the best thing since sliced bread. I've never times it but I'm sure its under 1 minute to load a 36 exp film. Extremely easy to clean and I can reuse them within a few hours as they do not trap water and dry quickly.

The 120 Hewes reels are also very good, night and day compared to the cheap 120 reel's I first bought however there is a bit more of a knack to loading the film, the most important part is to get it central on the reel.

Previously I used "AP" brand plastic reels. I can't say that they were bad but normally 1 in every 10 films would jam. I always make sure there is a spare reel to hand and never fight with it as it normally leads to disaster and a damaged film. The secret with the plastic reels as others have said is to keep them clean. I used a nail brush to scrub the grooves after every 4 or 5 uses. I also use Photoflo but once the reel is used I drop it into a bucket of soapy water until I've finished all film and start to wash the gear.

I never use a squeegee on my film, Photoflo ensure there is no water marks.

[Keith]

I stumbled over this while googling! http://www.ehow.com/video_4411174_spooling-hewes-reel-developing-film.html

[mgd711]

I watched those video's before I bought the Hewes reels. They are expensive but for simplicity and hassle free loading I think its worth it.

[Ronald M]

It is hard to better my old Nikor tanks and reels I been using since 1965. Imitation stainless don`t make it for various reasons.

I have a new Patterson SS 4, and it makes smooth clean negs , I just don`t like it.
Keep Photo Flow away from it or it gets sticky and won`t load, Cut off the sharp corners on the lead so it will load. It take an odd amount of chems and plastic is an insulator so water baths do not work as well.

Today I would get a Kindermann steel.

[ItsReallyDarren]

Toothbrush and hot water or alcohol go a long way in getting these reels clean. I do use photoflo with the film still in the reels so they tend to need cleaning sooner than TomA has mentioned. My reels get a cleaning every three months or after 50-60 rolls of film.

[Tom A]

When I wash the film - the tanks sits in a small plastic basin. As I usually do 5-10 rolls at a time, I leave the reels from the first batch in the basin and they get a 20-25 minutes "wash" from the tank overflow.
The last reels are usually left in the basin, with running water for 10-15 min while I make futile attempts to clean up the sink and put stuff away.
Photo Flo is sticky stuff! There must be a better way for cleaning the reels than the tooth brush! So far I haven't found any though.
The Dishwsher helps - but even so, you need to brush and scrub them too.

[Harry Lime]

I vote for steel reels (HEWES) for 35mm format. Once you get the hang of loading them it's a no brainer and they never stick like the plastic reels. One big advantage of steel reels is that you can quickly wash and dry them for another round of developing. You can even load them while they are wet, but i advise against that due to potential damage to the film. As long as you don't drop them, they should last a lifetime.

Interestingly I can't seem to manage loading 120 on to steel reels. Never had any luck with that, so i use plastic Patterson reels for medium format.

[Sjixxxy]

Photo Flo is sticky stuff!

Edwal LFN is where it is at. I've been using it instead of photo-flo with my same two plastic reels for about eight years now and have yet felt that I have needed to make a conscious effort to clean them. I don't even rinse them off before drying and all has been well.

[Seele]

After a one-minute tutorial, all my students came to love the Jobo reels - specifically the DuoSet 1501.

The Paterson reel with the ball-bearing (and the earlier design with "fangs") grabs hold of the film at the entry point and pushes it in, as the amount of film in the spiral increases, the friction also increases. The Jobo works in a different way: with the right coordination involving both thumbs and forefingers, the film is actually pulled from the far end.

A segment of the Jobo reel has its sides cut out, so both edges of the film are exposed: this is the place where your forefingers are meant to be. The thumbs placed at the entry point of the reel hold down the film sequentially as the spiral is turned to and fro, and at the same time the forefingers does the same thing with the edge of the film already loaded into the reel. A little practice is all that is needed to get the hang of that coordinated action, and I have loaded Jobo reels, even if stained and dirty, with no problem whatsoever.

But then, for large amounts of film to be processed together, I use RoSet reels, but that's another story!

[Ben Z]

I tried stainless reels years ago, and probably if I'd practiced and practiced and stuck with it I'd think they are easy as pie today. Just like someone who's been playing an instrument for years thinks it's easy. But I didn't. I happened on Kinderman reels. They're look at first glance like normal stainless reels, but they have 2 slightly different features. One is a prong in the hub that engages the film. The other is at the outer rim of the wheel, the last spiral extends at 90 degrees like a little stub. Kinderman makes a plastic jig that the reel slips on like a wheel on an axle, and there's an apron that curves the film and a place to hold the jig. Slip the film through the apron and down into the center where it engages the hub prong, grab the little stub on the edge of the reel, and turn the reel like a crank. The film winds into the reel in about 10 seconds and never slips the track. Ingenius as they come.


I also have one plastic reel, which I think is second to the Kinderman in ease and consistency of use. I'll leave the plain stainless to the guys who've been using them for a few decades. I marvel at how adept they are at loading, but at this point in my life I'm not up to the challenge :D

[Seele]

Ben Z,

I am familiar with the Kindermann system as well. A less-known system based on the same principle was sold by both Durst and 3M. A plastic reel is fitted into a gadget where the film is curled up slightly and pointing straight at the clip at the central shaft. Once attached, the small handle at the edge of the reel can then be turned to load the reel from the middle as per stainless steel reels. I had a 3M-branded 35mm tank, my personal record for loading a full 36-exposure roll of film was less than three seconds.

[Paul Chapman]

After a few mishaps with plastic reels, I switched to Nikor stainless reels and tanks in the 1960s and have never had a problem with them. One big advantage is that they load from the centre outwards, so if there should be a problem with the way the film is loading, it's easy to feel where it's gone wrong and you can correct it.

Cheers ;)

Paul

[djonesii]

I have a Jobo and a freesytle, both plastic. I use the Jobo for 120 and the freestyle for 120/220, Ive only done about 40 rolls, but I am not having any real trouble.

However, I cannot for the life of me get the 4X5 to develop evenly with the plastic spool. I have been using some mesh tubes that I made, and they work great

Dave

[ChrisN]

One thing not yet mentioned, and may have a bearing on ease of use. Who is loading their reels in a changing bag, and who is doing it in a dark room? I've had no trouble at all since I stopped using a changing bag.

[Bob Michaels]

One thing not yet mentioned, and may have a bearing on ease of use. Who is loading their reels in a changing bag, and who is doing it in a dark room? I've had no trouble at all since I stopped using a changing bag.

I have both a changing bag and a tent, no darkroom. I use the bag, even with 5 reel tanks, most of the time just because it is no setup. I only use the tent when I have several tanks to load.

However, I have used a special 1+ meter square room, with a 1/2 meter by 1 meter table and shelf. It was made specifically just for loading film and sure is nice. But it is not in my house.

[LeicaVirgin1]

Yes, I left out that I am using a changing bag; a HARRISON. It is big, but not the tent model. I am building my dark-room as we speak.

However, I have accumulated so much undeveloped negative that I do not want it to back up on me.

In closing, thank you Tom & ALL others who have given great advise & practical knowledge.

Best,

LV1

[mgd711]

I use the middle sized Harrison, the best $200 I've spent. In the heat and humidity the changing bag's were a right royal pain in the rear.

[Seele]

However, I cannot for the life of me get the 4X5 to develop evenly with the plastic spool. I have been using some mesh tubes that I made, and they work great

Dave,

You really need proper sheet film "reels" for the purpose, such as Jobo 2509 or earlier versions in a suitable tank.

[AgentX]

I've used steel reels since the beginning (way back in the 90s!). I could never, EVER get a plastic reel to load, even in daylight. That's why I use steel. Moving parts are hard for me.

It took me a roll to get the hang of it again (and remember which direction they load...) when I picked up developing my own again this year. Now it takes no time at all to get it in the tank.

An added benefit of steel tanks is the ability to change and control temperatures more easily. You can heat/cool faster and your tempering bath

I use plastic lids on my steel tanks, though, and change them out when they crack or go bad. I can never get steel lids back off without resorting to some overly-serious effort.

[ruby.monkey]

One thing not yet mentioned, and may have a bearing on ease of use. Who is loading their reels in a changing bag, and who is doing it in a dark room? I've had no trouble at all since I stopped using a changing bag.
I use a changing bag and steel reels, for 35mm and 120. No worries. The only suggestion I would make is to buy the largest bag you can find.

[sepiareverb]

Steel reels here, since 1982. I can count the number of 'mishaps' on one hand. (though one time I was part of a misloaded bunch of reels when sitting in the dark with another guy loading 50 reels for a big bulk tank- we got talking and weren't paying attention- and it was like 2am after a long days shoot) I could never load a 220 metal reel, so just stopped using 220 B&W (when I shot MF). I've never had a Hewes reel- pricey! I've currently got 25 reels and have replaced about three of mine over the years- every time because I dropped one. I'd rather replace a $12 mid-range reel than a $20 Hewes one, but maybe the Hewes could take a hit better?

Kodak's Photo Flo seems much better when mixed with distilled water, which we use at work (college) because they make it in the Science Wing. Before we switched the reels were forever sticky and films were left with residue. I use Sprint End Run in my regular water here and have never had problems with it. I mix it up in a gallon cube-itanier and fill a 1 reel tank with it when I run film. Films go into it from the washer and while I wipe down one the next gets it's bath.

I used a squeegie once, then threw it away so I wouldn't make that mistake again. I use the Photo Wipes (now from Tidi Products #911900) 1/2 a wipe per roll. Best thing for wiping down films. Removes 80% of the moisture without scratches so films dry very fast even in VT humidity. Less time for dust to settle on wet film and stick. Even in the gang lab at work Photo Wipes have about eliminated dust on films. They really work.

[Keith]

I used a changing bag once to load a 120 reel on a thirty plus degree day with high humidity here in Brisbane ... never again!

By the time I got my hands out of that bag it was like Borneo in monsoon season.

[AgentX]

I've lately had to use a too-small changing bag (an old one, too) which probably accounts for at least some of the dusty scratchyness of my recent negs, especially when I try to do 2 120 reels in a single tank. Not a lot of spare room in there!

Just got the "changing room" dark bag in the mail and am looking forward to the luxury of having some space to work.