View Full Version : Zeiss Ikon -- Shutter noise
I'll offer this tid bit of information I received from a dealer who will be selling this camera, while discussing how it compared to the Leica M: The shutter release will not be as quiet as the M7 or the MP. No big deal. I just pass it on for what it is worth.
A preproduction model was shown at the Imaging Exposition in Tokyo in March. I missed to have my hands on one but heard from Cosina people that they were still working on it to improve its shutter feel and sound. I hope it sounds comfortable. We will see.
MIKIRO
Japan
That it may not be as quiet as a Leica M is a reasonable guess... but only a guess. We await a production camera for real info. :)
even if it's the same shutter, they could have it more dampened, couldn't they?
I think so, yeah. And Zeiss's quality control and preferences are a strong influence.
vincentbenoit
06-11-2005, 23:57
Thanks for the info. Shutter noise, along with the silver finish, are two things that prevent me from being truly enthusiastic about the Zeiss Ikon.
i'm keeping my fingers crossed. bob shell on the cvug just said that the shutter module in the hexar rf, contax g2, bessa rxa, and zeiss ikon are the same, but the hexar rf has better damping and therefore a quieter shutter. compared to the m2, the hexar rf's shutter is quieter, lower pitched and less disturbing, but it has a motor wind. if the zeiss ikon is equally well dampened, we might be looking at the quietest m-mount camera ever.
and there will be a black version after the limited edition run of 1200.
vincentbenoit
06-12-2005, 02:26
if the zeiss ikon is equally well dampened, we might be looking at the quietest m-mount camera ever.That'd be great.
and there will be a black version after the limited edition run of 1200.Come on people, buy the limited edition! I'm in the queue for the black version.
RObert Budding
06-12-2005, 03:23
The new Zeiss Ikon certainly generates a lot of interest! Shutter noise? Yes, it might be louder than a Leica, but I'm sure it will be quiet enough. Particularly compared to an SLR! My Mamiya 645 sounds like a pistol shot.
Robert
Allen Gilman
06-12-2005, 03:36
Took a trip down to Hayata Camera here in Tokyo and was told that, although it has the same shutter as the Bessas, it will be dampened and quieter - but not as much as a Leica M.
Bertram2
06-13-2005, 17:23
Took a trip down to Hayata Camera here in Tokyo and was told that, although it has the same shutter as the Bessas, it will be dampened and quieter - but not as much as a Leica M.
Some say the Hexar shutter is on par with the Leica cloth shutter , I don#t know if that is true but even if the ZI shutter will turn out as beeing a bit louder I prefer it to a cloth shutter because you cannot burn holes into the curtains.
That's a really annoying thing concerning cloth shutters in general. If I should need a really quiet camera for stage or candid I'd take a leaf shutter camera anyway.
Bertram
phototone
06-13-2005, 17:35
I prefer it to a cloth shutter because you cannot burn holes into the curtains.
That's a really annoying thing concerning cloth shutters in general. If I should need a really quiet camera for stage or candid I'd take a leaf shutter camera anyway.
Bertram
I'm just curious....how many holes have you burned in a cloth shutter? Myself, I have had Leica RFDR cameras with cloth shutters since the early 1970's, and I have never yet burned a curtain. I have lots of cloth focal plane RFDR cameras. ln my opinion one is more likely to get pinholes from shutter curtain age, but I have never needed to have replaced a curtain, still goin' strong.
I do not think potential shutter curtain burn holes are a significant factor in owning a camera. Period.
I don't think burned shutters are especially common, but it does happen. I used a Nikon S2 that turned out to have half a dozen pinholes... With a metal shutter, one less (minor?) concern.
Bertram2
06-14-2005, 03:44
I'm just curious....how many holes have you burned in a cloth shutter? Myself, I have had Leica RFDR cameras with cloth shutters since the early 1970's, and I have never yet burned a curtain. I have lots of cloth focal plane RFDR cameras. ln my opinion one is more likely to get pinholes from shutter curtain age, but I have never needed to have replaced a curtain, still goin' strong.
I do not think potential shutter curtain burn holes are a significant factor in owning a camera. Period.
Hmm, your answer sounds a bit as if this is no issue because you personally never had probs ?
David Kieltyka
06-14-2005, 07:45
The Epson R-D1, which uses the same shutter as the current Bessas (and presumably the ZI), is noticeably quieter than my Bessa R2C. In turn the R2C is quieter than the Bessa R I used to own. The R-D1's shutter sound has a high-frequency ring, increasing its audibility, but the volume is low. Dampen that ring and the shutter should be pretty quiet.
IMO the cloth vs. metal shutter thing is a non-issue. Both types have strengths & weaknesses but nothing to fuss over.
-Dave-
Huck Finn
09-19-2005, 10:16
In regard to the question of ZI shutter noise, the website says the following: "The camera has a metal focal plane shutter specially designed for the Zeiss Ikon camera. Compared to cameras with similar shutters, the noise has been significantly reduced."
I recently e-mailed www.zeissikon.com for elaboration. I received the following reply from Dr. Hubert Nasse of Carl Zeiss AG:
"In fact, the shutter of the Zeiss Ikon, which was developed by Cosina, is a mixture of both (unique and stock components). They buy the parts from Copal - like the blades, the linking levers, and the blade guiding structure. These parts are then combined with a Cosina-made electromagnetic control system. Thus, the Zeiss Ikon shares some parts with the Bessa shutters, namely the visible ones; some other parts are specially made for the Zeiss Ikon, namely those that are not externally visible, and they are more sophisticated than in the less expensive Bessa bodies.
"The timing control system of both shutters is different. this is also reflected by the fact that only the Zeiss Ikon shutter control allows a permanent exposure lock. You'll find another difference in the auxiliary shutter, i.e. the light integrity blades; this is the grey front surface which you see when you remove the lens. It has been modified to improve the metering sensitivity pattern.
"There are also additional measures for noise reduction. The Zeiss Ikon shutter is more quiet than a Bessa shutter. Of course, the low level of the Leica cloth shutters is not fully matched with the blade shutter. But to make such a similar cloth shutter in low production volumes at an affordable price is economically impossible and a risk in terms of reliability and lifetime. Thus we decided to use proven and reliable parts from Copal and tune them a little bit - the same basic concept that is very successfully used in some fine cars.
"We expect that series production of the Zeiss Ikon will start in October."
Thanks, Huck! Interesting stuff...
Hmm, your answer sounds a bit as if this is no issue because you personally never had probs ?
Cloth shutters are sorta like setting shutter speeds on FSU cameras. If you alway cock the camera before setting the speed, you won't have a problem. Likewise, if you never point your camera at the sun with the lens cap off, you won't burn any holes in a cloth shutter. In both cases it's only an issue if you handle the equipment improperly.
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Trius
Huck Finn
09-19-2005, 15:13
Thanks, Huck! Interesting stuff...
Yes, Doug, I too found it interesting too. i was impressed that one of the Zeiss engineers took the time out of his schedule to provide a comprehensive & in depth answer a technical question that was beyond Hasselblad's PR Dept.
Over & above the technical information, what jumped out at me was the underlying philosophy that in making this camera they were looking for quality but at an "affordable" price, given the limitations of a low production camera. Obviously there are compromises that have to be made to serve both of these masters.
The other insight revealed in this answer is that thought & planning went into the development of the camera. Clearly not a Bessa clone.
Cheers,
Huck
Huck Finn
09-19-2005, 15:46
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Trius
2 ;) . . . Fred Astaire & Ginger Rogers.
Once those 2 angels are dancing at any venue -even the head of a pin - there isn't room for anyone else on the floor. :cool:
Huck
Thank you for the interesting post, Huck!
ZeissFan
09-20-2005, 07:15
Huck, that was interesting news. I'm in line for the chrome model, and it will be interesting to compare the production camera to the demo camera that I saw last October in New York.
My recollection is that the shutter very much sounded and felt like the shutter in a Nikon FE (without the mirror slap, of course). I would imagine the demo cameras carried a stock Bessa R2A/R3A shutter. I'm very interested in getting my hands on the new camera.
Fascinating reading.
I suspect the CZ engineer answered (and the H PR folks did not) because the former knew the answers (and the latter did not) ...
Huck Finn
10-01-2005, 05:13
Fascinating reading.
I suspect the CZ engineer answered (and the H PR folks did not) because the former knew the answers (and the latter did not) ...
Exactly. To the credit of the Hassy PR Dept., they knew their limits & it is they who made the referral to the Zeiss technical people.
Cheers,
Huck
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