Considering selling wet prints

[le vrai rdu]

Hi guys :)

I am considering selling wet prints in order to afford in a "candid photo " voyage to liverpool and belfast in september :eek:

I would like to know if you have any advice about it, I think selling a 17 x 24 cm (7 x 9,5 inches) for 45 € shipping fees excluded.
I can make wider prints : 30 x 40 cm and 40 x 50 cm
Every print would be home made (of course, it is wet prints :D ) on ilford multigrade IV FB fiber
So what picture would I print ? All the one on my website and my flickr

What is your opinion about the prices, do you think people would be interested ?

Thanks for giving me your advice ;)

[benlees]

I don't know about prices- they seem quite reasonable to me but I am a mere dilettante! But I think you might do well. Your pictures are great.

[le vrai rdu]

my goal is just to pay my boat and train ticket, the food and films for this film, not making my life with those prints :D
The idea is that people give me the url (on my site or flickr) of the picture they want :)
I think the best way for paying is using paypal :)

Of course, if somebody wants a print of his pictures, I can do it, same price , just provide me the neg :)

[martin s]

You should definitely demand money for the photograph itself, not just the work you put into the print.

40 Euro really does seem reasonable, in Berlin I've rarely seen (framed) prints for less than 100 Euros, but I as well have no clue.

martin

[le vrai rdu]

yes but I will have to sell it so I prefer not to frame it ( dont want that the buyer get a picture destroyed buy a broken glass )

30 x 40 cm should be 75 € and 40 x50 cm 100, seems a fair price no ?

anybody interested ?

[back alley]

who are you going to sell to?

marketing and creating a demand for one's images is very hard i think.

[le vrai rdu]

I would be selling to anybody who wants to :)
people on flickr and rff mostly I think

[back alley]

i find that photographers tend to not buy other's photos...

[nikonhswebmaster]

who are you going to sell to?

marketing and creating a demand for one's images is very hard i think.

If I figure it out I will let you know how... so far it has been very slow, and I am getting older quickly.

[35mmdelux]

Unless you have one serious and aggressive marketing plan AND the right fotos you will be hitchhiking to Belfast. Even many of the greats --such as Ralph Gibson and Ansel Adams had long years before selling anything. In dealing with the buying public you'll need to square away the lingo too. For instance your "homemade" photographs should be referred to as hand crafted. If they are simply "homemade" people will expect them cheap.

At the Weston Gallery, Carmel, California, their prints range from 4x5 to 30x40 inches. Marketing and business plans take time to develop and input from those familiar with the market.

Good luck.

[Al Kaplan]

With luck and a lot of effort you might be making that trip summer of 2020.

[le vrai rdu]

maybe, I just need to sell between 10 and 20 prints , I am not desesperatd (i am looking also for some job for the summer, but as you might guesse, this year it is not very easy :( )

[Journeyman]

Dry them first! :p

[Al Kaplan]

When you discover the secret share it with us.

[le vrai rdu]

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeep :) I will :D

[notturtle]

I think some of you are being fairly miserable. Sure it is very hard, but everyone has to start somewhere. Other photogs DO buy prints if they like them and they are reasonably priced. BUT they do have to be good images, printed to a very high standard, nicely finished (spotting perfect etc) and very affordable. I think it is a good idea if you can put forward strong images and charge reasonably for them. It won't make a fortune but it might make enough to subsidise a trip or at least cover shooting costs. There are quite a few avenues available for modestly priced images and one has to start somewhere. I did and I did not make a fortune, but I did sell images for a fair bit more than is being asked here. I then spent the next six years trying to hone my skills so I can hopefully sell them for a lot more than that - years spent doing things tht pay the bills - but it will take another half decade to make the next stage happen. If it happens. You have to sart somewhere and that includes all the difficulties (and sometimes failures) that go with it. Its a learning experience and I have expereinced first hand how bloody hard it is, but impossible it is not. If the goals are modest, like these, the likelihood of success is much greater...

[kully]

i find that photographers tend to not buy other's photos...

I'm not a photographer, just a happy snapper, but I'd love to buy prints from certain people here and in my circle on Flickr.

[Tuolumne]

I was going to start a thread about why no one buys prints any more. I'm not talking about art prints, either. I shoot lots of kids theater and music events. My shots are much better than anything a parent could do. I rarely sell anything. In fact, in about 2 years I've sold a total of $227 of prints. I know people are looking at lots of them, because I get a hit count from Smugmug. Why don't people buy prints any more?

/T

[Beniliam]

A ray of light, finally. Wise words, notturtle :)

I could to indetify easily with the message of Le vrai rdu. I encourage him to continue with the trip idea. Ask to your photographers friends what photos are the most interesting for them, and then, you can do a small tirage of those that you more like it. I think that small prints (5x7 - 8x5) have interest too... but normally people tend to buy the bigger ones. Its important like notturtle said, that you work by high standards. I enjoy most with smaller prints but, its only an opinion. Its a hard battle, trust in you, dont wait a big success now, its a long distance race :)

I enjoy most of the time with your posts Al Kaplan, but in this message you were so caustic ... Where are your youthful impetu?:angel:

[Trius]

Yes, I think the marketing end is the most difficult, but if anyone lets that discourage them, they will never even start. If one is committed, you find a way to make things happen. I think the OP is talented and can find a market, but it will take some work.

[le vrai rdu]

I think some of you are being fairly miserable. Sure it is very hard, but everyone has to start somewhere. Other photogs DO buy prints if they like them and they are reasonably priced. BUT they do have to be good images, printed to a very high standard, nicely finished (spotting perfect etc) and very affordable. I think it is a good idea if you can put forward strong images and charge reasonably for them. It won't make a fortune but it might make enough to subsidise a trip or at least cover shooting costs. There are quite a few avenues available for modestly priced images and one has to start somewhere. I did and I did not make a fortune, but I did sell images for a fair bit more than is being asked here. I then spent the next six years trying to hone my skills so I can hopefully sell them for a lot more than that - years spent doing things tht pay the bills - but it will take another half decade to make the next stage happen. If it happens. You have to sart somewhere and that includes all the difficulties (and sometimes failures) that go with it. Its a learning experience and I have expereinced first hand how bloody hard it is, but impossible it is not. If the goals are modest, like these, the likelihood of success is much greater...
thanks for your advise :)

[Al Kaplan]

Collectors mostly want prints by "name" photographers. It's only after they become a well known collector that they're likely to take a chance on buying an unknown. It's not just wall decoration, it's an investment. How many shows have you had or been part of? Do you have a gallery representing you? Have you had any write-ups in the newspaper or regional magazines?

What social circles do you travel in?

"Rich people will pay more money than poor people for the same item or service."

"Rich people will pay more money to another rich person than a poor person for the same item or service."

[amateriat]

If I figure it out I will let you know how... so far it has been very slow, and I am getting older quickly.
Know the feeling...I had a bit of success from my exhibit last year, but it takes a while, and even more work. (As if you didn't know that...)


- Barrett

[Al Kaplan]

In art circles nobody calls them "Wet Prints". They refer to them as "gelatin silver" or "silver gelatin" prints.

Now that resin coated paper (usually called "RC") has been around for thirty years or so and proven that they really do hold up quite well over time there's been a greater acceptance of RC prints. Some collectors don't seem to care anymore.

[le vrai rdu]

here are some of them, for obvious reasons, I cannot scan the wider ones :D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3517/3695638761_e1f6a1f7ff_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3499/3696448038_cc801943c2_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3535/3695638421_548b1b0ec5_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2447/3696447426_4abb5fa24b_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2524/3696447626_4cb07be4fc_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2476/3695638269_8aa5cd6613_o.jpg

my flatbed scan is a bit dusty :/

[Rayt]

At least today you have the internet where you can market your prints through your home page, forums like this and blogs. I tried selling prints 20 years ago by hanging samples in SF Bay Area coffee shops with a clear focus on a niche subject matter but generated very few interest. They weren't pictures of the bridge either. Good luck to you!

[Al Kaplan]

Somebody sees one of your old images and wants to buy a print. You offer to make one, an 8x12 image on 11x14 paper for $350. Sounds fair! Yet they'll complain about the price, too high.

Tell them that the print he's looking at, the print in his hands, you printed way back in 1968, shortly after you'd shot it, and that you'd printed it on the legendary DuPont Varilour paper.

Suddenly it's no longer a print from an old negative. It's now a "vintage print". Instead of "What? $350 for THIS?" it becomes "That's all? You should be charging a lot more than $350 for these!"

Or like my son keeps telling me, "Pop, I'll pay for the chemicals and the paper. You should be out in your darkroom every day printing up your old stuff. Those prints will be worth a fortune when you're dead!"

Whenever you make a great print, you get the dodging and burning just tight, go ahead and make ten of them. Your kids just might love you after all. Too bad we have to die first. :angel:

[le vrai rdu]

with my only 24 years, it will be hard to say I have "vintage pictures from the good old days" :D

[JohnTF]

Nothing is easy, bit like fishing, the results are yet to be realized. I have bought several other photographer's works, and have exchanged with friends.

Framing has become expensive, more perhaps than the print today, unless you can cut your own mats and put it all together-- plus there are many wrong ways to frame and few right ways.

I have generally two prices for prints, $150 and free. If I had an exhibit, I would follow the local guidelines. $150 is low, but I am surely not an established photographer with any collector appeal nor do I expect to ever have more than a local following if any.

This is $150 to me. In a gallery, that is the minimum at which I would part with a print, less than that someone does not care for it enough. Gallery profit and framing in addition, probably bringing the price up to $350 and tax, still a great bargain, if they don't sell I would raise the price, it works.

Selling fine prints, unless the photographer is established, is difficult I think now because of an overload of material out there, and certainly it is difficult to judge a print for purchase from a screen.

The general population do not seem to understand the difference between a fine print and a snap, so they are often not respected. Even a good friend who accidentally ruined a borrowed fine mounted print simply suggested I just run off another.

If, for example, I see a print offered by Ctein, or locally by Herb Ascherman, I know the quality will be far better than anything I see on the screen and up to gallery standards. I know their work.

I have spent time in Paris, if you can afford it, I would recommend you find a restaurant or cafe that might hang your work and with some publicity you might gain your modest goals in one night. It would certainly be a venue to boost your on line reputation.

I agree on keeping your prints modestly priced at this time, and I would stress the hand crafted silver gelatin aspect along with archival processing, and I am sure you know the prints need to be good. It would not hurt to have them looked over by someone who knows prints.

I decided on another career to support any photography I care to do, because it is an extremely fickle environment in which to earn sufficient money from fine print sales to support any kind of life style, especially where I live. Commercial work is another thing, but the niche is still small.

That said, a good night at an exhibit in a cafe might achieve your entirely reasonable immediate expectations and I hope to see a post validating those wishes.

Reputation is quite normally slowly built, but if someone will not pay your asking prices, I would not want them to have one of your prints.

Do not worry about the wording of your posts, I am sure we know you speak one more language than most, and you might always have your copy proof read. Il n'y a pas de problem, vraiment. I must download a spell check in French. ;-)

Regards, John

[Ronald M]

Journeyman beat me to it. DRY `EM FIRST

[le vrai rdu]

some more

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2424/3726453280_4ae1f11183_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/3726453164_c57da7bd81.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2442/3726453222_a0015bbe5f_o.jpg

[imajypsee]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3230/2811090268_0d54fbf692_o.jpg

and I recall you didn't have a process set up at the time; so, summer travel and a commission job has kept me busy. My mail on Flickr has your price and so on.. I'll get back to you on the details, but my advice would be to join one of the online selling communities like Etsy where your audience would be more focused on buying.

I think your work is outstanding. My guess is that you'll have a good future in photography. Try sending work to some print publications so you can build a following. You're young yet and with your good eye there's lots for you to see.

And, to the fellow who says photographers don't buy the work of other photographers, NOT so. Buying from "unknown" photographers is a passion of mine. My walls are filled with my purchases.

[wjlapier]

Yep...I buy from other photographers all the time.

What are your prices in USD? How would you ship to the US?

A wet print ( silver gelatin ) I'll take anyday.

I say it's a good idea to raise money to travel using your craft. Good luck!

[le vrai rdu]

Today I was asked to mak two wet prints on Ilford multigrade IV FB Fiber Mat, I asked 80€ each print, I deliver them next week :)

Quite glad to be able to sell my pictures :)

[JohnTF]

Today I was asked to mak two wet prints on Ilford multigrade IV FB Fiber Mat, I asked 80€ each print, I deliver them next week :)

Quite glad to be able to sell my pictures :)

No request for French Paper? ;-) I used to use it when Fred Picker sold it.

I brought some home from Paris, was hard to find at the time.

John

[le vrai rdu]

hummmmmmmmmmmmm ?

Didn't caught the meaning of your post :D

what do you mean by "french paper" ? newspaper ?

I sold it to a guy I know on a french forum ;)

[JazzMess]

Just bought a couple of 40x50 prints from him, honestly I find the prints of the highest quality;)

Hope that helps !

[Al Kaplan]

40?x50? Inches, centimeters, millimeters?

[le vrai rdu]

centimeters of course :D

[le vrai rdu]

My two first prints to be sold are ready to dry for a long night :)

I you want some, ask me :) Handcraft wet prints :)

[JohnTF]

hummmmmmmmmmmmm ?

Didn't caught the meaning of your post :D

what do you mean by "french paper" ? newspaper ?

I sold it to a guy I know on a french forum ;)

No, not at all, not even a French Letter. ;-)

Bergger made the early Zone VI paper sold by Picker + paper under their name, stopped production for a while, and began again. I thought they were still in production, I believe they said they are the oldest producer of silver gelatin paper?

I almost never saw it in Paris, I think it was sold in green boxes?

Odeon Photo had Agfa, Ilford, Kodak, but no Bergger. I found it at a shop in the north of Paris, along with some warm tone Oriental Seagull.

Found it, www.Bergger.com (http://www.Bergger.com)

Excellent gallery on line, btw, looks as if they have some fine products as well.

Regards, John

[le vrai rdu]

Ah yep

I buy in photostock, there is less and less "exotic products" mostly Ilford paper ;) now :)

[le vrai rdu]

Well, in france Bergger propose only : multigrade glossy (i hate glossy) and mongrade mate, and I prefer to have a multigrade paper :D

[uhligfd]

I found your title "SELLING WET PRINTS" somewhat funny: why not dry the prints before you sell them, I thought ... What would be the harm in drying them yourself?

[JohnTF]

[quote=le vrai rdu;1162180]Well, in france Bergger propose only : multigrade glossy (i hate glossy) and mongrade mate, and I prefer to have a multigrade paper :D[/quote

I got the impression from the web site that they produced a lot more?

I used their single grade glossy, dried matte, but that was the 90's paper.

I edited my last post to include the site. Very nice site.

[le vrai rdu]

ok, well, why not try bergger papers :)

[JohnTF]

ok, well, why not try bergger papers :)

It was one of my favorite papers, until I got some now defunct Neobrom Chamois.

It does seem a curse, when you find a paper you really like, it is discontinued.

And, yes, I liked the old Dupont papers. ;-)

John