Bronica RF??

[agphotography]

So i've decided i want a medium format rangefinder instead of 35mm ( i am in love with my RZ67 )

and i just now looked at the Bronica 645RF.

my other choices are the Mamiya 6 and the Mamiya 7/ 7II

so does anyone reccommend it? or is it not very well recieved.

also, i havent ever shot 645, only 6x6 and 6x7. would i be disappointed with a 645 rangefinder?

[Doug]

Well, I have two 6x7 SLRs, and I'm not at all disappointed in my three 645 rangefinders. They have different tasks, and the results in any are quite luscious! You can look at the 6x4.5cm format as "half-frame" compared to 6x9cm. Like the half-frame 35mm it goes to vertical orientation as normal vs. horizontal for the parent format. (Well, 645 SLRs run the film vertically so you have horizontal pics, normally). And you get twice the number of exposures too.

Disappointed with smaller format than 6x6cm? I don't know about you, but when I use 6x6 I tend to compose to the shape of the finder, and I mostly end up with square pics. But if you view the 6x6 neg as raw material for cropping to either horizontal or vertical compositions, then you're only using about 6x4.5cm of the film anyway. Then the main difference is having to rotate the camera and select orientation at the time of shooting, traded off against getting 16 pics on the roll instead of 12.

I mainly choose 220 film when available, and thus get 32 exposures per roll. I'm doing a lot of people pics, environmental portraits, so the vertical orientation of 645 is a natural.

FWIW, the Bronica RF645 is a very high quality camera with great lenses. Go for it! :)

[agphotography]

my concern about the Bronica, there is only 2 lenses... i have no option for telephoto? or would that not really matter, since i can always just get teles for my RZ? thats why i was liking the Mamiya 6 and 7. plus, getting 6x7 chromes back from the lab is a cosmic experience haha.

i really like the look of the Bronica however, and a 65mm seems like a good landscape lens. i like the price too, i co uld snag a body and 65mm for just under $800. does that sound fair enough? or am i going to miss my 35mm too much?

[Turtle]

I cannot recommend the RF645 enough. I too have owned an RZ67II, have LF, 35mm etc. I thing 645 is the real ideal format for travel and the reason is this:

Enough shots to be ok (10 is NOT enough when on the hoof)
with fine grain film and the right dev you can enlarge to a good size
with coarse grained films and dev you get grain when you want it (TriX in rodinal) as the format is not TOO big.

The RF645 IMO is great. Solid, superbly intuitive, super sharp and contrasty lenses (every bit as good as the Mamiya 7 to my eyes and I HAVE dev'd and analysed both under a powerful loupe)

Cheap, way cheaper than Mamiyas

Far smaller than Mamiya 7 in real terms, much less bulky

Good accurate meter (amazed me -bang on!)

Better build than Mamiya 6/7, by a mile IMO

Automatic darkslide on lens changes.

There are crazy people who think a Leica M can compete with this camera for image detail and overall print quality for larger prints. They are on drugs. The format blows 35mm away as any sane person can see. Make no mistake, the lenses are outstanding. Comments about the plastic thumbb rest are unfair. Tha back is metal, the plastic only a thumb rest. It is strong quality plasttic at that and does not detracct at all for me.

I have had mine only a while, but it is smaller than my eos 3 with 28-135 by a mile and I already feel it is the nicest camera to use and own I have ever had.

Love it completely. For me Mamiya 7 too bulky and dear, not enough shots and Fujis way too plasticky.

BTW there is a 100mm and a 135 out there, you just need to find out which brightlines the body you buy has (or decide which lens you want as your long and get the right body) Older bodies have the 135 and there was trouble with focus accuracy, hence the 100mm brought in. I wwnt for 2 x 135mm bodies which I will have matched to the lens (when I get it - have 65 andd 45). I wanted the longer of the two lenses and would rather pay to have the lenses and bodies spoecifically matched than go for the shorter lens, which many say has no matching probs. Many use the 100 on bodies with 135 brighlines and just guesstimate. Brightlines can be changes by a service centre, but it costs, so you might as well decide if you wanna go the 100 or 135 route. New rfs from delaers all have 100 fframes.

[Doug]

Body and 65mm lens for under $800 sounds excellent! For reference, take a look at the reasonable prices at KEH.com...

Yes, there are longer lenses, first the 135mm and then its replacement, the 100mm, which has about the same angle of view as a 65mm lens on a 35mm camera. Not so very long, but a very useful focal length nonetheless, in combination with the other lenses. I'm sort of a fan of the 40mm (on 35) field of view, so the RF645's normal lens is a great all-round choice.

The 45mm is a useful wide lens, too, roughly equivalent to a 28mm (on 35). What I'd love to add is a 30 or 35mm, but with the market the way it is, it seems unlikely to appear. As long as I'm wishing, I'll include a wish for 45mm framelines in the viewfinder. Otherwise, I don't know how it could be better!

I should use the 100mm more often, but here's a sample:

[Nick R.]

I was in the same position you were this winter, trying to choose between the Bronica and Mamiya. I picked the Bronica and I don't regret it for a minute. It's a great camera. Very well thought out as to form and function and I love the LCD display in the view finder.

[g6o4r5]

Hi. I have a mint-Boxed-with 65mm lens +Special hood instructions etc.RF 645-Bronica for sale-I need to get one more lens for my 20D.hence sale.
If interested please E-mail me, for details. Price £485.
Gordon UK.

[aizan]

turtle, you've convinced me to go for the bronica rf645 instead of the mamiya 7 or fuji gw690iii. "grain when you want it" was right on.

[Turtle]

Aizan,

I hope it works for you! Its a very personal thing, but my decision was made even easier by the fact that I shoot LF, so 6x7 was never going to compete for the big stuff. Its great for people shots too, largely because of the vertical format and more frames available. I have owned Pentaxes, Canons, Bronica 6x6s, Mamiya 6x7, Ebonies, MPPs, Rolleiflexes, Zone VIs and (recently got a Walker 5x7). I have printed from Mamiya 7 negs and played with one (a good friend's). If I could only shoot one camera for evermore, it would be the bronny RF645. Now I have 35mm SLR, RF645 and LF kit and am busy selling off anything else I have. The RF645 is a huge part of the setttilng down thing as I have found something very, very good and right for me.

Tom

[nksyoon]

Have a look at Robert White (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/bronica.htm#LabelRF) in the UK, they're offering the RF645 Body + 65/4 RF lens with 45/4 RF lens + finder for GBP650 excl VAT.

Cheers,
Nick

[Nick R.]

Turtle,
I think you've summed it up for a lot of us Bronica RF users. Now, if only Tamron would release more lenses!

-Nick

[Beniliam]

The Bronica RF 645 like said Turlte its an outstanding camera. Nothing to envy the Mamiyas. I like more the format of 645 because you can shot more. The 6x7 its great, but in the street I think this format its not practical, a few of shoots in the negative... You will be load the camera more time than shooting.

I like the ergonomisc control of the camera. The lens are quite good, relative cheap, with good quality of construction.

I recomend this camera for the quality, the size, the cost and the format

[Doug]

I have just extended my committment to the RF645 system by purchasing a second body, used, from KEH. It's one of the older ones with the viewfinder framelines for 135mm lens, so now I'm looking for one of those lenses too! Just ran a roll of 220 film through the "new" body, so we shall soon see if it's working as well as it seems!

[aizan]

wow, great deal on the kit robert white has. i'm either going to scramble to raise the dough, or hope for a little while that nobody beats me to the punch. <_<

[Theo-Prof]

I too have been interested in the Bronica. The prices make this camera VERY attractive, especially for someone who does not want to spend the kind of money Mamiya wants for their lenses. My question is how is Bronica's product support and service? I doubt that there will be any new lenses coming out for this camera. That is not such a big deal since a three lens MF outfit would cover virtually all of my needs. However, since this camera has had such a short production run I wonder how long parts will be available for them.

I also need to read the rest of the threads on this forum. This thread tells me there are some peculiarities with this camera that I need to research.

Kevin

[billbarber]

I was looking for a Mamiya 7 untill I read everyone's comments here. I bought the Bronica 645 with 65mm lens (used) last night. I should have it this week! I also purchased some 220 film. It looks as if 120 is more avail than 220? I like that you can get so many pics from the roll shooting the camera's portrait orientation. what film are you shooting and where are you buying yours?
thanks
bill barber

[Little Prince]

Yep Bill. Don't count on 220. Some films that I sometimes want are not available in 220 and even if they are, local stores appear to have smaller stocks of 220. After I gradually recognized this, I decided to get rid of my 220 back for the Bronica (SQAi) and replace it with another 120 back. Damn, I had forgotten all about it until now. I must get back to that task.

[Nick R.]

I buy at camera shows mostly. Because of that, I have a real mix bag of different films. However, I recommend you try Ilford PanF+ at least once. It's a great film.

[jdos2]

(*cough* 43mm lens on 6x7 *cough!*)

Actually, I was kinda sad to hear that the Bronica was going away. I had a Mamiya 7 and liked it very much. Very sharp. Bronica is nicer for the price, and the body is most certainly better than the almost stamped plastic feel of my 7, but neither have the faster lenses (or the True Construction Value!) of the Universal! f/2.8 makes a difference in Standard Lenses.

[Doug]

An f/2.8 would be sweet on the Bronica if only an option for 45 and 65mm, and I'd love a 30 or 35mm. Congratulations, Bill, on your forthcoming RF645! I prefer 220 whenever possible, and buy from B&H, Adorama, or look on eBay for short-dated or expired lots. Fortunately, many of the professional-grade color-neg films I like are offered in 220, such as Fuji NPZ800, NPH400, and NPS160, Kodak UC400. And Kodak Tri-X. It's too bad that Ilford doesn't offer 220 size in any of their films.

[jbw]

how is the bronica's viewfinder? easy to see and focus ?- any problem for an eyeglass wearer? is the camera equally as comfortable to hold for taking horizontal pictures?

joanie

[Doug]

Hi Joanie -- I'm sure I don't answer for everybody, but my experience is that the 65mm frames are easy to see with glasses, plus a nice bit around the outside of the frames too. Without glasses, I can see more, approximating the coverage of the 45mm lens.

The viewfinder is bright with a crisp spot that, like the Leica's, can be used as a split image spot (using the top/bottom edges) as well as a coincident-image spot. Much better than the fuzzy spot in the Fuji GS645 and most other fixed-lens RFs. There's a very clear illuminated display panel at the left if you want to check the exposure settings.

I think turning any camera 90 degrees is somewhat less comfortable than using it level, and the RF645 is about typical in this regard I think. Not uncomfortable or awkward, but maybe a little less steady. But I do quite like its normally vertical frame orientation...

After shooting mostly 35mm cameras recently (testing those doggone eBay purchases!), it was pleasant last Saturday to be using an Olympus Pen half frame (yeah, another recent purchase!), as it too has a normally vertical framing.

Below: See, Bronica and Pen can both shoot horizontals!

[Turtle]

My RF is the only camera I have ever used with a vertical finder and I cant say I have ever given it a second thought, but then again I use it for everything, rather than just landscapes which I shoot 75% plus in landscape format.

I will say again for the record: This camera is incredible value. I went the whole hog, buying twow complete cameras and a 45mm. I am just looking for the 135 now. I do not regret it one bit. This is the most instinctive camera I have ever used. I have plyed with Leica Ms and find them 'slippery', but nice. This RF fits me like a glove and the viewfinder is excellent; crystal clear and it is either in focus or not. One of my used bodies has a vertically displaced patch. I bit irritating, but not an issue - it was cheap and is otherwise perfect. I will get it sorted when it goes for a service or if I get the 100 brightlines put in.

BUY IT. Having printed more and more negs I continue to be amazed at the quality of the optics. They are easily on par with the Mamiya 7 according to the prints I have produced. Using the 65mm, shoot at f5.6 to f8 and prepare to be blown away......

[billbarber]

Camera's Here!
I've loaded Tri-X 320 (220). I've never done this before but I think it's loaded right.
My question is setting the film speed on the back of the camera............
there is a 200 and 400 setting and 2 space in between them. I have it on the 2nd setting, assuming it is 320.
1). what to the 2 steps in between the 200 and 400?
2). what are all of the increments of avail film speed settings?
This is my first "NON DX CODING" adventure here.
btw, my camera (used) did NOT come with a manual.
thanks to anyone who can help me here.
Bill Barber

[Turtle]

Camera's Here!
I've loaded Tri-X 320 (220). I've never done this before but I think it's loaded right.
My question is setting the film speed on the back of the camera............
there is a 200 and 400 setting and 2 space in between them. I have it on the 2nd setting, assuming it is 320.
1). what to the 2 steps in between the 200 and 400?
2). what are all of the increments of avail film speed settings?
This is my first "NON DX CODING" adventure here.
btw, my camera (used) did NOT come with a manual.
thanks to anyone who can help me here.
Bill Barber


Bill,

increments go 200, 260, 320, 400, so one down from 400 (1/3 stop slower is 320).

I just shot some tri-x thru mine, dev'd in pyrocat, yummy.

T

[Roman]

here's the full sequence from 25 to 3200 (and BTW, Turtle, it is 250, not 260):

25 32 40 50 64 80 100 125 160 200 250 320 400 500 640 800 1000 1250 1600 2000 2500 3200

- each step represent 1/3 f-stop more of sensibility, so you can say that the values double in groups of three (ie. 4th = 2x 1st, 5th =2x 2nd, 6th = 2x 3rd, etc.)

Roman

[Doug]

Film speeds go in sequence in the same way f/stops do... You have a basic segment that then is doubled or halved as you go up or down.
ISO: 100, 125, 160 then you double for the next segment 200, 250, 320, etc.

[billbarber]

Thanks guys! I knew you'd have the answers for me. I really appreciate your time in responding to my questions. I knew I'd like this forum - everyone here is great.
Now - the fun part; taking the pictures. I don't have a insert for my scanner to accomodate this format. But will be back in my open-darkroom class in September to make some prints.
thanks again
bill barber