1948 Elmar 90mm F4 - First Pics - Post Yours

[snausages2000]

I've never really been tempted to shoot anything longer than a 50mm on my M6, but I couldn't resist the temptation of trying
a cheap 60 year old 90mm Leitz lens.
It was funny trying to compose in those little 90mm framelines, but I'm digging the dreamy look (all shot at F4 and scanned from negs - no post-processing)...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3618/3673618162_877420ac75.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2423/3673617718_2aa6f70a9a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3303/3673618350_23e5a72d86.jpg

Anyone else have some old Elmar 90mm shots they can share?

[charjohncarter]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2191/2319427138_8941690217.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/2401377312_1d5460b584.jpg?v=0

[Bill Snell]

Good stuff!! Who said they are only good for B+W? Couple with my 75 year old (1933).

[wjlapier]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2191/2319427138_8941690217.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/2401377312_1d5460b584.jpg?v=0

Another Rfer track shooter! Cool!

[charjohncarter]

I should have said I think my 90mm Elmar F4 is from 1950-52????. Frankly, I love it: small, low contrast, good color, light, on my IIIf it is still shorter than a SLR with a 50mm lens.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3608/3369458728_918d96964e.jpg?v=0

[charjohncarter]

Another Rfer track shooter! Cool!


I love T&F, too bad about football, baseball, basketball. Not one of my best but I know the kid coming across the line (also with the Elmar 90mm):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3614/3368633447_d01961496a.jpg?v=0

[Brian Sweeney]

1954 Collapsible 9cm F4 Elmar, wide-pen. 1/15th handheld on the Leica M3.

http://camwk.com/picture.php?albumid=48&pictureid=501

[Brian Sweeney]

Same Lens, Faster Shutter-Speed, 1/500th or so.
http://camwk.com/picture.php?albumid=48&pictureid=505

[gilpen123]

Wow those are wonderful results from a vintage lens. Even the color rendition is very nice and natural. I like Brian's 1st shot the most due to the mood it depicts and the subdued colors of brown & beige of course the others are very good as well. I'm also looking for a 90 lens for my M3 and certainly will consider the lenses used here.

[peterm1]

These shots are exceptionally low contrast - which is why I prefer this lens for color photos - and it is quite darn good for that. But it also gives black and white shots a specific look. And its resolution is not too bad when stopped down. Sorry the scans are a bit dodgy too, which does not help...................

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o251/peterm1_bucket/Scan20005web.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o251/peterm1_bucket/Scan2a_filtered1r.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o251/peterm1_bucket/Scan20002_filteredbw.jpg

[snausages2000]

Awesome, guys - I'm loving seeing these shots from the Elmar. I was really surprised to see that the rear element of mine is nowhere near the base of the lens - the elements (maybe 3?) are bunched within a half inch or so of each other at the tip of the barrel. The collapsible version from the 50's must have a pretty different design, yeah?

Keep the shots coming...

[Rico]

According to Puts, the 1954 Elmar has identical optics in the rigid or collapsible form. I look forward to using my collapsible one day (the 3-element Elmar is my go-to 90).

[gilpen123]

Keep them coming.......

[Brian Sweeney]

The 9cm Elmar and 13.5cm Elmar are not telephoto designs, but anastigmats- ie "just like a normal lens". That's why the rear element is so far from the film.

Two nice things about the collapsible Elmar: 1) It fits in the ever-ready case of the M3 and M2 when collapsed; 2) the front element can be easily removed for cleaning out haze in front and back of the aperture. Cleaned out of this one in minutes.

http://camwk.com/picture.php?albumid=48&pictureid=504

[Mr_Flibble]

Taken with my KEH-"Ugly", 1937 90mm Elmar f/4

From Fort Vechten near Utrecht 2 years ago
http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/Fort10.jpg

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/Fort05.jpg

Oldtimer Fly-in at Diest/Schaffen airfield in Belgium
http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/OF070805.jpg

From the last time I used it:
http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/sh090510.jpg

[NathanJD]

Beautiful results guys! I held out and went for an Elmarit as my 90mm so I don't have anything I can post here but I must say that I'm very impressed with what your old gems have achieved! I love vintage lenses! keep up the good work! ;)

[CLE-RF]

Taken with my KEH-"Ugly", 1937 90mm Elmar f/4

From Fort Vechten near Utrecht 2 years ago
http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/Fort10.jpg

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/Fort05.jpg



Rick, I LOVE those! Would like to join you someday shooting stuff like this, I own two FED-s cameras with 50mm Summar copies and FED 100mm lenses, we can have a shoot out!

[petronius]

My Elmar is from the 50s and attached to a Zorki 1/VIOOH. Pictures shot on Polypan F/Rodinal 1+50

[Vince Lupo]

All 90/4 Elmar shots:

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww72/VinceLupo/DuboDubonDubonnet.jpg

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww72/VinceLupo/2008-22.jpg

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww72/VinceLupo/Strasbourg1.jpg

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww72/VinceLupo/Normandy.jpg

I'll see if i can come up with some more....

[marke]

These are all very encouraging to see, guys. I wanted a collapsible version 90 Elmar for my M3, but couldn't find one I could afford. So I have a rigid model coming that I just bought from Jim Hedley (CourierCam here at RFF). I would love something faster, but Jim sold this Elmar at a price I couldn't resist. And now that should pretty much complete my M3 kit. :)

BTW, can anyone tell me what is the difference between the Elmar-M and the Elmar-C, other than they were made for two different cameras and the C having the collapsible shade? Is there any difference in the glass or other functions while in use?

[Mr_Flibble]

Rick, I LOVE those! Would like to join you someday shooting stuff like this, I own two FED-s cameras with 50mm Summar copies and FED 100mm lenses, we can have a shoot out!

Hi Johan, well, it's kind of quiet on the World War 2 living history front at the moment for me; Fort Vechten will have another one of those WW2 weekends on "open monumenten weekend" from the 11th to the 13th of September. Unfortunately me and my Elmar will be in Belgium/Limburg for a 10 day tour from Oostende to Maastricht this year with the secondarmoredineurope.com group.
From the 25th to the 27th of September there is a big living history event organised by Landelijk Platform Levende Geschiedenis or LPLG for short in Beers (NL). At this event all re-enacted periods will be represented; from Vikings to Dutch Cold War troops; From East German Border Guards to Vietnam 1/7th Aircav; From the 80 year war to the Boer War; WW1, WW2 and Napoleontic wars to The Old West.
You can find me there as a 165th Signal Photo Company Photographer ;)

[Brian Sweeney]

I'm sure the Elmar-C for the Leica Cl is a much more modern design, sharper, and higher contrast. I also have an Thin Tele-Elmarit, and it is sharper and higher contrast than the old Elmars.

I'll have to upload some from my uncoated Elmar. Like shooting Kodachrome 10 no matter what color film is in the camera.

[snausages2000]

My serial number begins with 676 which, according to published lists, dates it at 1948. Stephen's reference guide says the post-war versions are chrome and coated. Another site says the "normal" f-stops (4, 5.6, 8, 11, etc...) start in 1951. Interestingly my 1948 version slightly contradicts both categorizations as it's black and has the normal f-stops. I know there's always a million insignificant variations with these things, but I can't help but be interested in the history of this little 60 year old lens. (also the brassing on the black barrel looks really nice)

[Mr_Flibble]

People have commented to me that I should brush the sand of my camera, it wasn't until they took a closer look that they saw it was brassing ;)

Another 2 year old photo that I've posted before in another topic somewhere:
http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/ta070807.jpg
A picture I'm still rather proud off, at the time it was just a random snapshot of one of my good friends. He passed away unexpectedly a few months later.

[sanmich]

1954 Collapsible 9cm F4 Elmar, wide-pen. 1/15th handheld on the Leica M3.

http://camwk.com/picture.php?albumid=48&pictureid=501

Man, that's Dutch painting....

[charjohncarter]

Here is another with the 50s 90mm Elmar on my IIIf:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3603/3682142366_14775b9682.jpg?v=0

[-doomed-]

Heres one from my elmar 90/4 its from the early 50's from what I gather . I should use it more often so i can get better with focusing it more accurately
Test shot on Fuji 1600 @ F4
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/3682200398_4c046accc6.jpg

[charjohncarter]

I like this thread so I'll post again:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3718845182_84dceba16a.jpg?v=1247530472

[helenhill]

90 Elmar....
shot on a bus ride
cutting off heads / learning how to see without ext VF...:bang::)

click on it to make BIGGER

[agricola]

Hi
While we are at it, can anyone enlighten me about the differences between these two? Both came to me from a deceased estate and I know very little about Leica glass. Any opinions on which of them I should send off first for a CLA? That is, which is likely to perform the best?
many thanks
71464

71465

[charjohncarter]

Good shot from Gotham, and (agriculture) I'll bet you have two good lenses. I sent mine to Sherry K., she did a nice job and as I like compact 35mm equipment it isn't performance so much as convenience (for me).

[agricola]

Thanks charjohn

[John Shriver]

Agricola, the only difference between your two Elmars is the filter ring size, they have the same optics. The left one takes E34 or A36 filters, the right one takes E39 filters, and is newer. I'd look carefully at the quality of the glass surfaces, and only send in the one in better condition.

[tennis-joe]

I shot this photo from our hotel room in Florence, Italy. It is the Duomo of Florence. In the morning Swallows are flying around the church. This was shot with an older, European version of the 90f.4 Leica lens. It is very brassy but takes wonderful pictures. The f stops are in older European numbers.

Joe
http://www.hispanicgs.com/duomo.jpg

[charjohncarter]

Nice photo, looks like you had a really good room.

[brainwood]

I like the look of these shots so much I have made the rash? purchase of a nice 90 Elmar for my IIIg. After all having the framelines in the viewfinder is just too tempting. I hope to get it for the weekend. I'll post some shots when it arrives.

[Mr_Flibble]

Right, more 90mm Elmar photos.

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/ch070932.jpg
poor scan from somewhere in September 2007, Leica IIIa + 1937 90mm Elmar. Fuji Superia 200

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/chleica06.jpg
Leica III + post-war 90mm Elmar, September 2008. Fuji Superia 200

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/sh090506.jpg
And another from my friends Wedding back in May. Kodak BW400CN

[charjohncarter]

Mr Flibble, my uniform was very much like that one, great.

another 90mm Elmar:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2191/2319427138_8941690217.jpg?v=0

[Mr_Flibble]

The design has changed very little over the years, John. Only the color went from chocolate to dark forest green if I recall correctly.

I'm starting to repeat myself as I've posted these before, so I'll stop now ;)

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/SF0020.jpg
http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/SF0028.jpg

[agricola]

John Shriver: thanks very much for the information John. I will follow your suggestion and now check the glass on these two.

[charjohncarter]

Mr Flibble, right, my Captain's uniform was Forest Green, It had a black strip on the trousers. Don't stop posting I love your photos. Here are some Officers home from the War (the real one)(Brown Shoe Army), but this IS NOT an Elmar 90mm (and it was taken by my father-in-law), just for Mr. Flibble:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3362/3562806527_61d4904171.jpg?v=0

[Mr_Flibble]

Thanks for sharing that John, interesting photo,
I can just make out the 'good conduct' ribbon on the man on the right. The middle ribbon is probably an ETO-campaign ribbon.

They're wearing Officer "Pinks".


I'm afraid I don't have that many more pictures to share though, I've not used my 2 90mm Elmars that often.

Operation Pheasant 2008
http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/OP080515.jpg

My sister's dog: Zap
http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/zap02%7E0.jpg
Regards,

Rick

[charjohncarter]

Well, I always enjoy your reenactment photos, so I hope to see some more soon.

[Mr_Flibble]

There are no events for another 2 weeks though. I do plan on going to the Historical Fly-in at the Aviodrome museum. But the uniform would call for something a little older then any Leica I own.

Our group has been asked to participate in a small event at Fort Veldhuis in the second week of August. The problem is that it's one of those "Only things you can carry events".

But my '37 90mm Elmar is definitely coming with me for the Roll on the Meuse tour in early September. 8 Days with about a 150 Second Armored re-enactors with 30+ Second Armored Vehicles, racing through Belgium along a big part of the route the Division took in the Autumn of 1944.
I'm currently in the process of getting my Jeep in order. It'll get 165th Signal Photo Company markings. I've been on these trips 2 times before and for me they are the pinnacle of living history.

[brainwood]

My 'new' Elmar arrived this morning here's some first shots . I had a few frames left on the end of roll so I popped out my back gate and shot these at about f8.
I really like the look this lens gives. Lots of contrast for such an old lens , this one dates to 1959


http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/7854/tethered.jpg

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/7854/lock_gate.jpg

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/7854/entering_a_lock.jpg

Chris

[raid]

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/bride_series_4.jpg


The lens is an old [black] 90/4 which shows signs of coating. It may have been coated after production since the lens is quite old with the strange aperture numbering 6,3 ...

[tennis-joe]

Raid, I have one of those older 90's and I was told it has the European apeture openings. They are about the simliar to the US stops. 9 is closest to 8, etc. If you have a thru the lens meter it should work without problem. I used it with my Bessa R and it worked great. Mine was very dirty and I was afraid to clean the inside element very much. I think I just used a can of air that I use on my computer.
Joe

[mabelsound]

Just got my uncoated black-barrel version in the mail...it has the European aperture values and the glass is freaking perfect! Serial number puts it in 1936. First pic is of the lens on the R-D1, the others are from my test run. I only adjusted exposure, to preserve character. It doesn't render remotely like any other lens I have, that's for sure.

http://inverseroom.creotia.com/pictures/elmar.jpg

http://inverseroom.creotia.com/pictures/stone.jpg

http://inverseroom.creotia.com/pictures/tobey.jpg

http://inverseroom.creotia.com/pictures/bark.jpg

[snausages2000]

Here is another with the 50s 90mm Elmar on my IIIf:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3603/3682142366_14775b9682.jpg?v=0

charjohncarter i love the light you've captured here. do you remember your film/developer?

[snausages2000]

Just got my uncoated black-barrel version in the mail...it has the European aperture values and the glass is freaking perfect! Serial number puts it in 1936.

http://inverseroom.creotia.com/pictures/elmar.jpg

Mabelsound, I also have the black paint brass barrel - looks like mine has been treated less delicately, but the brassing is beautiful:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3434/3733803222_f75ff211ca.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2465/3733803156_634e0a31e8.jpg

I bought this in the classifieds about three months ago - its scars make me wonder what the lens has seen in the last 60 years...

[snausages2000]

From my first black & white roll (tri-x 400) with the Elmar 90mm...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2648/3707027971_00215917c6.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3504/3707027765_b235cb17e1.jpg

[charjohncarter]

charjohncarter i love the light you've captured here. do you remember your film/developer?


Sure do, Tmax400 shot at 200, developed in Rodinal 1+50, 12 minutes, 30 seconds initial agitation, then 3 inversions at 8 minutes and 3 inversions at 4 minutes. This is one of my favorite combos right now. In bright sun the images look like they were taken by a Speed Graphic during the 1950s.

[snausages2000]

Sure do, Tmax400 shot at 200, developed in Rodinal 1+50, 12 minutes, 30 seconds initial agitation, then 3 inversions at 8 minutes and 3 inversions at 4 minutes. This is one of my favorite combos right now. In bright sun the images look like they were taken by a Speed Graphic during the 1950s.

Wow, thank you for the info. Seems like 90% of the stuff that jumps out at me is processed in Rodinal. Gotta give the stuff a try. Are your times for 68 degrees? And, I realize this is probably insignificant, but when you say 8 min and 4 min, do you mean inversions at the 8th and 12th min, or at the 4th and 8th min? Thanks...

[mabelsound]

I've been agitating every minute with 1:50 but i think i'm going to try agitating less from here on in. I may go out today with the Elmar and IVSb and give it a whirl...

Snaus, that brassing is indeed beautiful--but I will restrain myself from taking some steel wool to my copy. Your wife/gf is a great model, by the way--i really like the photos you take of her, esp. those yellow umbrella ones, and the second one above. She's very pretty, too.

[charjohncarter]

Wow, thank you for the info. Seems like 90% of the stuff that jumps out at me is processed in Rodinal. Gotta give the stuff a try. Are your times for 68 degrees? And, I realize this is probably insignificant, but when you say 8 min and 4 min, do you mean inversions at the 8th and 12th min, or at the 4th and 8th min? Thanks...

Yes, 68 degrees, sorry forgot. But counting down from 12 minutes I start agitation with 30 seconds slow inversions, let it stand until (counting down) I see 8 on the timer, then 3 inversions, stand until 4 minutes is on the timer and again 3 inversions, stand until I dump at zero minutes. When I agitated at each minute my highlights were a little hot. I tried cutting back development time but I lost those great Rodinal midtones (a little). I read something about minimal agitation and it worked for me.

[mabelsound]

When I agitated at each minute my highlights were a little hot.

Right!!! I thought that was just Rodinal. This is great, I'm definitely going to try fewer agitations.

[charjohncarter]

Right!!! I thought that was just Rodinal. This is great, I'm definitely going to try fewer agitations.

Apug is down right now if you want the reference to controlling highlights with minimal agitation I'll provide it after they are back up. But basically, this guy says (and I believe him): you expose for the shadows, develop (not for the highlights but) for the midtones, and agitate for the highlights. This is different from the old rule; I do this with a couple of films.

Edit: I would be careful with Rodinal. I find that with four minutes between agitation is about as long as you can go. Any longer and you get into the stand, semi-stand uneven development.

[mabelsound]

Edit: I would be careful with Rodinal. I find that with four minutes between agitation is about as long as you can go. Any longer and you get into the stand, semi-stand uneven development.

Yeah, I have encountered that problem...I know better than to wait too long!

[elmer3.5]

Hi, although i no longer have my iii-f :( I keep the elmar, superb lens. Like it´s size, weight and of course it´s optics.
On the rd1s i also use the viooh Inherited from the late iii-f outfit, 135 fov is perfect!

[mabelsound]

Couldn't resist a few more, from today. IVSb, Arista 400, Rodinal 1:50. (John, I tried fewer agitations but it burned the edge unfortunately. Had to crop a bit.)

[charjohncarter]

John, I'm surprised, but other than that how do you think the results are. They look good to me especially with a flat day. Here is the thread on Apug, read posts 2 and 12 also look at the thumbnail;

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/55796-tmx-rodinal-examples.html

[mabelsound]

Yes, overall I think they make a winning combination! I probably didn't mix the dev enough...

[Gabriel M.A.]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/64/181551403_8dd97650ce.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabrielma/181551403/)
M6 + 90mm f/4 Elmar / Fuji Xtra 800

[charjohncarter]

Gabriel, great, couldn't be better. Of course, a great model helps, too.

John, did you look at that APUG thread? I use a plastic reel and tank some people say they encourage uneven development. And I have had it a couple of times with Rodinal, but never when I used 4 minutes between cycles; good luck

[mabelsound]

Gabriel, great, couldn't be better. Of course, a great model helps, too.

John, did you look at that APUG thread? I use a plastic reel and tank some people say they encourage uneven development. And I have had it a couple of times with Rodinal, but never when I used 4 minutes between cycles; good luck

Yes, I read it...I just switched to metal reels actually. Rodinal 1:50 has always been perfect for me agitating every minute in terms of evenness (though highlights sometimes burned a bit), but when I tried 1:100 stand recently, I got heavily burned edges, and now this afternoon I got somewhat burned edges. Just one edge, presumably the bottom. And I was actually letting it go for only 3 minutes between agitations!

However, it could be that I let the temperature get up to 70 or 71 degrees...anyway, Rodinal usually works fine for me and I'm sure it will continue to do so.

[snausages2000]

CharJohn, thank you for those details. I can't seem to find Rodinal in NY, but I'll look into getting some shipped. John, without my 'model' I'd be taking a lot more pictures of cameras sitting on desks! I shot a couple frames with the Elmar this weekend - they're in the scanning queue now...

[charjohncarter]

CharJohn, thank you for those details. I can't seem to find Rodinal in NY, but I'll look into getting some shipped. John, without my 'model' I'd be taking a lot more pictures of cameras sitting on desks! I shot a couple frames with the Elmar this weekend - they're in the scanning queue now...

Amen brother, luckily I have three granddaughters, they are the only ones that will act like models for me. And how better to use a 90mm Elmar.

[snausages2000]

John, 3 granddaughters sounds great - triple the Elmar possibilities.

Continuing to love everything this lens does...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3529/3740790373_f182e75995.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/3741492504_a1a37992c9.jpg