View Full Version : Images from Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1!!
Hi guys,
Just took receipt of the new Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f1.1 and took a few shots with the Epson R-D1 and Zeiss Ikon loaded with Kodak Porta VC 160. Here's a few sample images from the R-D1. The film images will have to wait as I'm not done with the roll yet.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/3668266222_10accddebc.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/3668266222_10accddebc_b.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2070/3667462501_955ae4b7ae.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2070/3667462501_955ae4b7ae_b.jpg)
Both image shot wide open at f/1.1 at ISO 200 on Epson R-D1.
Unadjusted and unsharpened JPEG image straight from camera on standard settings.
More images will be uploaded here on my flickr account when available (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157620674668922/). Contacts marked as friend can access the full size images off the cameras/scans.
An additional image to show it's proportions relative to the Leica M6 TTL.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2585/3668226928_c4ecac1189.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2585/3668226928_c4ecac1189_b.jpg)
And another with the supplied hood with reference to the Zeiss Ikon.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3349/3667434293_c6c1f98ea0.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3349/3667434293_c6c1f98ea0_b.jpg)
More pictures showing the proportion of the lens with other cameras here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157604925270947/)
Hope it's useful for those considering this lens...
Cheers,
Brian Sweeney
06-28-2009, 01:40
They look good!
This lens has generated a lot of excitement, as it should.
back alley
06-28-2009, 01:42
handsome lens, pics look good.
martin s
06-28-2009, 01:43
Do don't by any chance have the 35mm f1.2 to compare it with (size-wise)?
martin
Pickett Wilson
06-28-2009, 01:44
I like it. Very modern look, good OOF areas.
Wow, they look nice. It doesn't have that feeling of swimming through a creamy sea of blur that the Noctilux has and it doesn't appear to make the lights in the background swirl in a circle around the corners. I imagine that it might be different on a non-crop camera...but still quite lovely. Voightlander! Score!
Lens looks nice. Pics - I'd like to see more, but these look promising. I just cant believe that all you have is just 2 pics!!!!! I'd have 200 by now! ;)
Do don't by any chance have the 35mm f1.2 to compare it with (size-wise)?
martin
Since you asked...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/3667449135_5d08d74374.jpg
Cheers,
mabelsound
06-28-2009, 02:23
That bokeh doesn't have a lot of character, but it is amazingly smooth.
kshapero
06-28-2009, 02:29
I noticed in your flickr account you have the lens mated with the Bessa R3M. How is the focusing when wide open?
35mmdelux
06-28-2009, 03:05
Since you asked...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/3667449135_5d08d74374.jpg
Cheers,
This kit looks like it belongs to Sabastio Salgado. What gives? TKS for posting.
Chiif Ho
06-28-2009, 04:05
Taken with G1, 2x crop, wide open at f1.1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3667884139_a5fbb90015.jpg
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3667884139_a5fbb90015_b.jpg)
unedited, straight from the camera...
actual pic here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiif/3667884139/) .
I found that the Zeiss ZM and the Nokton 50 f1.1 was a perfect match. The largish finder is confidence inspiring when it comes to focussing - and with the standard hood there was surprisingly little intrusion in the finder.
What I like about it is also the mid-aperture performance - you dont sacrifice anything here. This means the lens could become a "carry everywhere" lens - both lowlight and "bright" shooting. OK. it is not small, but I find it comfortable to hold and though heavier than my other 50's - not excessively so.
Chiif Ho
06-28-2009, 04:16
I was also pleasantly surprised by the weight... held it on one hand with the Noctilux.... I didn't have the feeling that it was going to slip out of my hand... Yes, Tom, you are right... it could just be a carry everywhere lens...
Pickett Wilson
06-28-2009, 04:21
Does anyone have photos taken with this lens in really low light?
Nice photos! can't wait to see more.
I found that the Zeiss ZM and the Nokton 50 f1.1 was a perfect match. The largish finder is confidence inspiring when it comes to focussing - and with the standard hood there was surprisingly little intrusion in the finder.
What I like about it is also the mid-aperture performance - you dont sacrifice anything here. This means the lens could become a "carry everywhere" lens - both lowlight and "bright" shooting. OK. it is not small, but I find it comfortable to hold and though heavier than my other 50's - not excessively so.
Tom,
How would you compare the character of the Nokton to the Zeiss Sonnar 50?
Larry
Larry, I think they are two different "animals". I like the C-Sonnar because of its Sonnar qualities. I have just processed and scanned a whole bunch of stuff shot with it in Europe and the more I use it - the more I like it. Very "lush" rendition in bl/w.
The Nokton f1.1 is more akin to the 35f1.2 - slightly higher contrast and a more distinct out of focus rendition. As for resolution etc - with 400 asa bl/w film they are both better than the film!
I will shoot more with the 50f1.1 this summer - particularly @ f1.1. Picked up 20 rolls of Fuji Minicopy II in Japan in March - 6 asa (can be "pushed" to 20 in Rodinal 1:200/2 hour stand development).
mabelsound
06-28-2009, 05:38
Fuji Minicopy II in Japan in March - 6 asa (can be "pushed" to 20 in Rodinal 1:200/2 hour stand development).
What on earth?!? Can you perhaps start a thread about this film, Tom?
buzzardkid
06-28-2009, 05:39
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!
That lens looks sweet, both shots with it and of it!
What on earth?!? Can you perhaps start a thread about this film, Tom?
Check Japanexposure on Flickr. There are a few shots with there and I have "wasted" two films to figure out how to shoot/develop it. Use the tag "Fuji Minicopy II" on Flickr and there might be more shots.
Those shots look very good, sharp and nice bokeh - this lens is clearly gonna be a winner. Good for Cosina!
http://www.cosina.co.jp/gallery/akagi-50/index.html
http://www.cosina.co.jp/gallery/akagi-50/index.html
great examples! especially the portrait shots.... thanks for sharing.
Morca007
06-28-2009, 18:01
Looks real good to me, a modern superfast lens for all seasons.
I was hoping this lens has more character to it's bokeh like the noctilux. The images look good, the bokeh reminds me of a Canon 50mm f/1.0
I for one cant wait for more images, I want to see how this lens does with OOF highlights.
it is very strange situation - here we have sharp lens with smooth bokeh and people ask for character.
if they made lens with swirly bokeh same people would say - cosina did a bad job again - they made lens with swirly bokeh.
it seems that many just wait chance to bash cosina...
i dont say they make perfect lenses and that cosina is God - i just respect their efforts to make new and interesting stuff for not so high prices...
photobizzz
06-29-2009, 00:16
it is very strange situation - here we have sharp lens with smooth bokeh and people ask for character.
if they made lens with swirly bokeh same people would say - cosina did a bad job again - they made lens with swirly bokeh.
it seems that many just wait chance to bash cosina...
i dont say they make perfect lenses and that cosina is God - i just respect their efforts to make new and interesting stuff for not so high prices...
I agree, but if there was no dissension than there would be no discussion :) ... There will always be some people that will not be satisfied. I will probably buy it soon, after the "rush" wears off and any possible bugs or QC issues arise and are identified and remedied. It does look like a sweet lens. I will just have to be happy with a 35/1.2 and 50/1.2 for now! (poor me)
I have a Noctilux and I would buy this lens because it has a different signature / sharpness / look. Each lens has a unique "look" and should be used as such.
One question I have is - why does this lens cost so much?
I know all others similar to it are even more, but really, CV 35/1.2 is sold by CQ for $879 USD. And its a one of a kind lens - only 35mm lens thats so fast, has great IQ and focuses down to 0.7m. They say that it's harder to make a fast wide lens than fast normal lens. So, now we have a new CV 50/1.1 that sells for $1150, not ASPH (which may be preference for some), focuses down to 1m. There are several other 50mm lenses that are fast at 1.o or 1.2 - yet more expensive, in most cases, I know. And image quality is still unknown - I cant say much based on a very few pics I have seen from the CV 50/1.1, but so far it is NOT better than CV 35/1.2.
So, why does it cost $1150, where CV 35/1.2 costs $879? The way I see it, it should sell for $879 or LESS!!!!
All this said, I do admire Cosina for making these new and interesting lenses and hope they will do well. Who knows, I may get one too, once I see more pics from it.
The OP shots look good, better than the stuff on the cosina.jp site (some of which look pretty soft to me). It's character looks similar to the 35 1.2, but not quite as buttery smooth. I do think this will probably be my next lens purchase.
As far as cost goes, is there another m-mount 50 that's that fast currently in production? I'm not wealthy by any stretch but $1150 seems about right to me. Even think about Canon L primes (apples and oranges I know) - are any that cheap? The 50L is what, $1400? I think the price is pretty good.
As far as cost goes, is there another m-mount 50 that's that fast currently in production? I'm not wealthy by any stretch but $1150 seems about right to me. Even think about Canon L primes (apples and oranges I know) - are any that cheap? The 50L is what, $1400? I think the price is pretty good.
Well, what I was saying is - why does a lens from the same company, that is supposedly more difficult to make and which has no alternatives (all this makes it more valueable) sells for less than this new lens that is still made by Cosina, supposedly easier to make, has other alternatives (at different costs), - yet sells for more? I'm not saying it's not "pretty good" - for what it is - its a decent price. But rather, if Cosina could make a lens such as CV 35/1.2 at less than $900, I dont see why they couldnt make 50/1.1 at the same or even less?
shadowfox
06-29-2009, 03:44
Good job, benny! thanks for sharing.
I think this is one of RF camera's real strength, it would be darn near impossible to focus an f/1.1 lens using an SLR, and get a high hit rate, wouldn't it?
I'm amazed at how precise the rf-coupling mechanism had to be in order to get the focus on the dot like this.
Well, what I was saying is - why does a lens from the same company, that is supposedly more difficult to make and which has no alternatives (all this makes it more valueable) sells for less than this new lens that is still made by Cosina, supposedly easier to make, has other alternatives (at different costs), - yet sells for more? I'm not saying it's not "pretty good" - for what it is - its a decent price. But rather, if Cosina could make a lens such as CV 35/1.2 at less than $900, I dont see why they couldnt make 50/1.1 at the same or even less?
That's a solid point, but I would assume they're evaluating it against other 50s and charging accordingly. In general it seems that cosina's pricing isn't very gougey and I doubt they would do that here. On the flip side, there's just not a lot of competition for this lens, and $1150 is a steal compared to a noctilux.
That said, I wonder how many more they would sell at say $879. Crossing the 1k barrier is a big mental block for me.
This is the most exciting thing that has happened for photography for years and years,amen.
That's a solid point, but I would assume they're evaluating it against other 50s and charging accordingly. In general it seems that cosina's pricing isn't very gougey and I doubt they would do that here. On the flip side, there's just not a lot of competition for this lens, and $1150 is a steal compared to a noctilux.
in fact, the japanese msrp of 50/1.1 is cheaper than 35/1.2 $10000yen. And 50/1.1 is cheaper than 35/1.2 in Hong Kong.
Todd.Hanz
06-29-2009, 04:10
The bokeh is too smooth tsk, tsk, tsk.
I think it does what it should, blurs the out of focus areas without dominating/competing with the subject. Give me smooth OOFs anyday, at least I won't feel like I've been on a three day alcohol binge when I look at the picture with all the swirly bokeh.
I wish it focused to .7 instead of 1 meter but that will not be a deal breaker for me.
Todd
photobizzz
06-29-2009, 04:11
I think you mean 100,000 yen - 10,000 yen is only 104 USD...
I think you mean 100,000 yen - 10,000 yen is only 104 USD...
What's the street price in Japan? I'm heading to Tokyo next month and maybe I could pick one up there...
What's the street price in Japan? I'm heading to Tokyo next month and maybe I could pick one up there...
As i know, japan street price is around 95000yen, and in hk, someone just said it's selling around usd770. FYI, 35/1.2 is usd820 in hk.
Palaeoboy
06-29-2009, 04:34
Well, what I was saying is - why does a lens from the same company, that is supposedly more difficult to make and which has no alternatives (all this makes it more valueable) sells for less than this new lens that is still made by Cosina, supposedly easier to make, has other alternatives (at different costs), - yet sells for more? I'm not saying it's not "pretty good" - for what it is - its a decent price. But rather, if Cosina could make a lens such as CV 35/1.2 at less than $900, I dont see why they couldnt make 50/1.1 at the same or even less?
__________________
Lensse are always dearer at release and market forces drive them down so it will come down a bit but dont forget that its been over 5 years since the 35 was developed economic development costs and currency values have taken a pounding since then. I dont think your comment under those circumstances is correct. Its a very fair price.
I'm looking at the new Noctilux 50mm f/0.95 it seems Leica went the same way as far as smooth vs character in the bokeh.
So, why does it cost $1150, where CV 35/1.2 costs $879? The way I see it, it should sell for $879 or LESS!!!!
Well, Judging from the picture, the 50/1.1 is thicker than the 35/1.2. So maybe they are priced by the diameter:)
-- Yefei
So, why does it cost $1150, where CV 35/1.2 costs $879? The way I see it, it should sell for $879 or LESS!!!!
I'd say it's because the lens is new on the market and the demand is high. After some time the price will go down.
And considering the price in Germany, your USD 1150 is a bargain. We got to pay USD 1400 over here. Some dealer wanted to offer the lens with a discount for just USD 1230 , but other dealers complained to Ringfoto (main distributor and owner of the Voigtländer brand). So in the end there is no discount here at all.
I'll just stick with the lenses I got for now. Perhaps I'll get one for X-mas.
I'd say it's because the lens is new on the market and the demand is high. After some time the price will go down.
And considering the price in Germany, your USD 1150 is a bargain. We got to pay USD 1400 over here. Some dealer wanted to offer the lens with a discount for just USD 1230 , but other dealers complained to Ringfoto (main distributor and owner of the Voigtländer brand). So in the end there is no discount here at all.
I'll just stick with the lenses I got for now. Perhaps I'll get one for X-mas.
that's why i always think HK is the best place to get equipments. Just $770 here~:)
that's why i always think HK is the best place to get equipments. Just $770 here~:)
Really? Where?
Really? Where?
I'm curious as well, my friend is coming to visit me from HK and I would like to know where you can get it for that price. I can save more $$ this way
And can we order it on the web? Then this fat sucker will be coming with me to tokyo! :-)
Hi guys,
I just updated with some more test images.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3672145197_b93b632a5f.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3672145197_b93b632a5f_b.jpg)
ISO 200, 1/45 sec, f/1.1 on AE mode. Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 on Epson R-D1.
Unadjusted and unsharpened JPEG image straight from camera on standard setting
I did a ten picture series comparing the Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 with the Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 shot wide open, f/1.4, f/2.8, f/4.0 and f/8.0 at 1 m.
The Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 picture are here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157617927599600/)
The Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 pictures are here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157620674668922/)
Cheers,
padraigm
06-29-2009, 08:14
The Nokton looks sharper at F1.1 then the noctilux... So far I like what I see. The again maybe the focus is off on the noctilux as the film box seems more in focus that with the nokton.
It's funny, in those shots i like the sharpness of the Nokton but the dreamy OOF of the noctilux. If I had to pick though, based on those shots of the camera and bottle, I'd pick the Nokton.
jeff laitila
06-29-2009, 09:06
Since you asked...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/3667449135_5d08d74374.jpg
Cheers,
I already have the 35/1.2 and was wondering the same thing. Thanks for posting.
jeff laitila
06-29-2009, 09:10
One question I have is - why does this lens cost so much?
I know all others similar to it are even more, but really, CV 35/1.2 is sold by CQ for $879 USD. And its a one of a kind lens - only 35mm lens thats so fast, has great IQ and focuses down to 0.7m. They say that it's harder to make a fast wide lens than fast normal lens. So, now we have a new CV 50/1.1 that sells for $1150, not ASPH (which may be preference for some), focuses down to 1m. There are several other 50mm lenses that are fast at 1.o or 1.2 - yet more expensive, in most cases, I know. And image quality is still unknown - I cant say much based on a very few pics I have seen from the CV 50/1.1, but so far it is NOT better than CV 35/1.2.
So, why does it cost $1150, where CV 35/1.2 costs $879? The way I see it, it should sell for $879 or LESS!!!!
All this said, I do admire Cosina for making these new and interesting lenses and hope they will do well. Who knows, I may get one too, once I see more pics from it.
Because businesses are in business to make money. Cosina will charge what they believe the market will bear. Prices will come down over time, unless this is a limited run and it turns out to be a stellar performer all around. Prices are all about supply and demand, and so far the demand for this lens looks to be rather high.
buzzardkid
06-29-2009, 09:12
Question: anyone already able to post shots made with a film camera? The Epsons smaller sensor size increases DOF and I'm interested to see differences (if existent at all) on film. The lesser of the two lenses will probably have double lines in the highlights from OOF areas.
On the Epson, the OOF looks very nice, and I can hardly distinguish between the two. The Noktons slightly cooler color is easily corrected should one feel its too blueish. Good to see that the initial tests in a Japanese magazine showed similar results; the Nokton is like the Nikkor 1.1 when it comes to color, and like the Noctilux when it comes to OOF areas.
SimonSawSunlight
06-29-2009, 09:46
it actually doesn't increase the DOF. only if you compare it to 75mm lenses on full frame :D ...but I can't think of a 75mm f1.1... evidently, the DOF stays the same while just the crop changes</offtopic>.
but you are right, I'd like to see a little more of its performance on the edges at f1.1, so shots on film would be greatly appreciated =)
Good job, benny! thanks for sharing.
I think this is one of RF camera's real strength, it would be darn near impossible to focus an f/1.1 lens using an SLR, and get a high hit rate, wouldn't it?
I'm amazed at how precise the rf-coupling mechanism had to be in order to get the focus on the dot like this.
I focus f/1.2-lenses on a slr all the time, and get a pretty ok hit rate (80-90% area I would guess).
It takes practice.. ;)
I focus f/1.2-lenses on a slr all the time, and get a pretty ok hit rate (80-90% area I would guess).
It takes practice.. ;)
I agree ... a 1.2 on an SLR makes for a very bright image on the focusing screen! (depending on the camera of course)
These images look great, and considering the price - this will be THE M lens to get this year. I only wish there was a faster 28mm, but I am excited to get this lens , both on M4-P, and my Lumix G1. And to think I was searching around on Ebay a few weeks back, looking for a Canon f/0.95 pshaw. CV is definitely on a roll, I wouldn't be surprised if they take a second stab at a digital rangefinder and do a full frame before an M9 ever makes it to the market.
Does anyone (from Oz) know when our distibutor (mainlinephoto) is going to have the lens in stock?
Not that I'm interested! :o
In fact I'm trying very hard to avoid this thread! :D
back alley
06-29-2009, 12:56
Does anyone (from Oz) know when our distibutor (mainlinephoto) is going to have the lens in stock?
Not that I'm interested! :o
In fact I'm trying very hard to avoid this thread! :D
i can relate keith...i have a perfectly wonderful sonnar 50/1.5, way plenty fast for me and yet i keep thinking about this lens also...and i don't even care for 50s!!
joe
wongyboi
06-29-2009, 13:14
Does anyone (from Oz) know when our distibutor (mainlinephoto) is going to have the lens in stock?
Not that I'm interested! :o
In fact I'm trying very hard to avoid this thread! :D
I think Mainline have them already :)
I just paid a week ago $575 for another lens, and I could have waited and bought this lens. Did I do wrong? Maybe not. Maybe yes.
kazeonrff
06-29-2009, 13:27
The Second Thoughts Nok' .
I was planning to get a Canon 5d awhile back, until someone i didn't like spoke negatively about film. Sure, i know full well the limitations of film, but to have him say it to me is..
Well - i dropped all digital plans and will be putting "Mid year budget for 2009" into the Nokton.
gilpen123
06-29-2009, 13:41
Hi guys,
I just updated with some more test images.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3672145197_b93b632a5f.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3672145197_b93b632a5f_b.jpg)
ISO 200, 1/45 sec, f/1.1 on AE mode. Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 on Epson R-D1.
Unadjusted and unsharpened JPEG image straight from camera on standard setting
I did a ten picture series comparing the Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 with the Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 shot wide open, f/1.4, f/2.8, f/4.0 and f/8.0 at 1 m.
The Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 picture are here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157617927599600/)
The Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 pictures are here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157620674668922/)
Cheers,
Uh oh you're one mean guy
Great comparison, thanks.
Uh oh you're one mean guy
:D Weather's so bad yesterday so I ended up doing a series of test shots at home instead. Should I do one set with the Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM for the fun of it anyway? I'm sure the much lower contrast and veiling glare of the Canon 50mm at f/1.2 will be interesting to compare.
Cheers,
If I were to be buying one, I'd buy from Chiif in Singapore, who I think has posted early in this thread? Great to deal with - I've bought two viewfinders off him and he's fun to correspond with over email. Plus I like his web shop and the lovely stuff about his family. Very good prices too.
http://www.chiifcameras.com
I've no connection to Chiif other than being a satisfied customer, originally referred to him by an acquaintance.
Hi guys,
I just updated with some more test images.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3672145197_b93b632a5f.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3672145197_b93b632a5f_b.jpg)
ISO 200, 1/45 sec, f/1.1 on AE mode. Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 on Epson R-D1.
Unadjusted and unsharpened JPEG image straight from camera on standard setting
I did a ten picture series comparing the Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 with the Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 shot wide open, f/1.4, f/2.8, f/4.0 and f/8.0 at 1 m.
The Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 picture are here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157617927599600/)
The Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 pictures are here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157620674668922/)
Cheers,
After looking at these and than at Tom A's pics from the Nokton 50/1.1 - they seem to be so very different. I wonder why? Is it digital vs film? These seem to be much smoother. Or did Cosina tweak the lens from pre-production to production models? Or maybe its just different subjects? Any thoughts?
larmarv916
06-29-2009, 15:28
My hats off to "Benny NG" for taking the time to offer really excellent test images for "our" inspection. Very nice work and I am even more impressed with the "flatness of Field"...all the way across the image. I am hoping I get to grab on of these gems for myself. Thanks Benny !
All the Best....Laurance
If there are differences then I suspect it is the camera type that made the differences.
back alley
06-29-2009, 15:30
and film processing (film & developer) adds another dimension for change.
Does anyone (from Oz) know when our distibutor (mainlinephoto) is going to have the lens in stock?...
Scott just sent me an email saying tomorrow, or at the latest Thursday.
More shots, looks like a few already have theirs, more will be trickling in over the next few days/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexes/sets/72157620582618505/
Does anyone (from Oz) know when our distibutor (mainlinephoto) is going to have the lens in stock?
Not that I'm interested! :o
In fact I'm trying very hard to avoid this thread! :D
TODAY. Yes, it's true.
(Edit: they were due today, but they are in transit. Orders are likely to be delivered this week.)
After looking at these and than at Tom A's pics from the Nokton 50/1.1 - they seem to be so very different. I wonder why? Is it digital vs film? These seem to be much smoother. Or did Cosina tweak the lens from pre-production to production models? Or maybe its just different subjects? Any thoughts?
I think I remember reading that Tom used a developer for his black and white film that accentuated edge effects and it looks as though his contrast was a bit high, probably to accentuate sharpness. More exposure and less development would have given a smoother look.
alan davus
06-29-2009, 18:36
I for one definitely like what I see. If someone 12 months ago would have said a 50 1.1 was going to hit the market place for $1100 or there about I would have said "you have to be dreaming'. Just once in my life I'd like to own a super fast lens and I think this is going to be it. If the 35 Nokton 1.2 is $2-300 cheaper in comparison as some are suggesting then may be we should just say isn't it great to have a quality fast 35 at such a give away price. Thanks Mr. K.
Holy **** that looks gooddd.
Did you have to align your R-D1's focus mechanism in order to get that lens to properly focus? At 50mm and higher, my R-D1 can't nail anything at any distance.
hans voralberg
06-29-2009, 19:54
You sure there's nothing wrong it your RD1 Kevin ? I got a 100% hit rate with my RD1 and Noctilux
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33482157@N07/sets/72157620761968680/
Color film sample in Flickr!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33482157@N07/sets/72157620761968680/
Color film sample in Flickr!
Nice night shots, on film, and M3 ...... very, very, nice
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2465/3675074542_c36dc8b5fa.jpg
Getting excited.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33482157@N07/sets/72157620761968680/
Color film sample in Flickr!
Thanks for that.
Turns out that the new 50/1.1 neither has a unique signature like the Noctilux, nor is it as sharp and well corrected like the Noct-Nikkor.
Think Cosina missed a chance to build something with more character here. (Take the the Zeiss 50/1.5 for example.)
I´ll pass!
BillBingham2
06-30-2009, 02:54
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33482157@N07/sets/72157620761968680/
Color film sample in Flickr!
Very cool test shots. It looks like a GREAT lens, enjoy!
B2 (;->
DennisPT
06-30-2009, 02:58
Thanks for that.
Turns out that the new 50/1.1 neither has a unique signature like the Noctilux, nor is it as sharp and well corrected like the Noct-Nikkor.
Think Cosina missed a chance to build something with more character here. (Take the the Zeiss 50/1.5 for example.)
I´ll pass!
But can't deny it is an "affordable" piece of high speed glass. Thanks for sharing the link Issa918.
kshapero
06-30-2009, 03:01
Still my question? Should I forget about mating this lens with my CV Bessa R3M? I am hoping for a definitive answer.
If I were to be buying one, I'd buy from Chiif in Singapore, who I think has posted early in this thread? Great to deal with - I've bought two viewfinders off him and he's fun to correspond with over email. Plus I like his web shop and the lovely stuff about his family. Very good prices too.
http://www.chiifcameras.com
I've no connection to Chiif other than being a satisfied customer, originally referred to him by an acquaintance.Chiif also supports APUG by advertising there. That's how I found them.
You sure there's nothing wrong it your RD1 Kevin ? I got a 100% hit rate with my RD1 and Noctilux
I am now fairly certain there is something wrong with my R-D1 but I don't know how to calibrate the focus. I've calibrated the vertical and horizontal rangefinder patches easily enough but how is focus supposed to be fixed and verified?
thomasw_
06-30-2009, 03:20
Still my question? Should I forget about mating this lens with my CV Bessa R3M? I am hoping for a definitive answer.
This *might* be a great reason for you to get a M3 :) Seriously, though, any M mount camera with a higher effective base length will make it more straight forward to focus a faster lens. And for a fast 50, the M3 is a smashing fit.
Still my question? Should I forget about mating this lens with my CV Bessa R3M? I am hoping for a definitive answer.
At 4ft it’s the same DOF as a 75 at f2.5, personally I wouldn’t hesitate
back alley
06-30-2009, 03:32
akiva, use your zi.
LeicaFoReVer
06-30-2009, 03:37
Thanks guys for sharing the photos from Voigtilux (I like to call this guy like that :)
It seems like this lens is a good blend of old look with new technology giving it a sharper character than noctilux...People who finds noctilux too smooth may like nokton a lot. I would like to try both but I dont have enough budget for those guys. So far I am happy with my canon 50mm 1.2! :)
Still my question? Should I forget about mating this lens with my CV Bessa R3M? I am hoping for a definitive answer.
The R3M would work fine with the 50f1.1. I use mine for the 75's (f2 and when I still had one , the 75f1.4 @ wide open). As with any fast to superfast lens - rangefinder base is less important than holding still and checking focus. Subject movement is also important - if he/she moves even the lsightest - focus will shift. When I still used Nocti's - I used them on 0.72 Leicas and also on Bessa R2's - no difference in the success rate. It is simply a matter of getting used to the camera/lens combination. When you use a high speed lens in low light - several other considerations come into play, subject contrast, shutter speed etc.
I would say, go for it. I used the 50f1.1 on a ZM when in Japan in March. solely because I did not bring the R3M with me at that time. If I had, I would have put the 50 f1.1 on it and I would have been confident that it would have worked fine. Once I get mine - iI will try it out with the production lens.
Some of these other shots are looking really good, although I still think the OP are by far the best. Maybe it's just the R-D1 :-)
I don't think it has the definitive signature of the noctilux or sonnar, but it's shaping up to be damn fine fast lens. It's got some of that buttery smoothness of the 35/1.2 but mixed with the slighltly edgier/contrasty 50mm nokton look.
Chiif Ho
06-30-2009, 05:27
Some images shot this afternoon...
Some were wide open. Some, simply can't be wide open. Lens is too fast for day time use wide open. Furthermore on a M6... this lens is just too fast...
Hope my limited photography skill do justice to this wonderful lens...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2555/3675158895_72ce5f472b.jpg?v=0 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiif/sets/72157620633764457/)
Click on image to browse set.
Chiif, you need a 6-stop ND (gray) filter if you want to shoot it wide open mounted on the M6 in daylight.
Or just pick up some Fuji Minicopy II - rated at 6 asa, but it can be pushed to 20 in a pinch. Soup it in Rodinal 1:200 stand development for 2 hours (this will give you around 20 asa).
Some images shot this afternoon...
Some were wide open. Some, simply can't be wide open. Lens is too fast for day time use wide open. Furthermore on a M6... this lens is just too fast...
Hope my limited photography skill do justice to this wonderful lens...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2555/3675158895_72ce5f472b.jpg?v=0 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiif/sets/72157620633764457/)
Click on image to browse set.
Nice shots!
padraigm
06-30-2009, 11:52
Just got notice from mainline that my lens has been shipped out today :)
Hi guys,
A couple more shots shot wide open...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3559/3675826182_a93dd425d7.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3559/3675826182_a93dd425d7_b.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/3677305260_b0af572792.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/3677305260_b0af572792_b.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2659/3676558293_0611da5cb3.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2659/3676558293_0611da5cb3_b.jpg)
I also did a comparison at infinity focus in low light with the Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 and Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM on the Epson R-D1. This is the one from Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 at f/1.1.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2525/3677358132_48b45dc356.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2525/3677358132_48b45dc356_b.jpg)
The Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM comparison pictures are here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157607154856927/)
The Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 comparson pictures are here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157617927599600/)
The rest of the Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 comparison pictures are here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/sets/72157620674668922/)
I think this is going to be one of my favorite lens for quite a while...
Cheers,
bolohead
06-30-2009, 16:55
Wow, I'm amazed at how sharp it is wide open in that Fullerton Hotel image. It's especially promising as compared to the Noctilux and the Canon. I hope that mine ships tomorrow. :)
Just got notice from mainline that my lens has been shipped out today :)
i was there today. their shipment cleared customs, but too late to be delivered. it will be in tomorrow morning. need another 2 weeks for 58mm uv/ir cut filters...
After looking at some more pics, I'm sort of puzzled as to why DOF is so large/deep at 1.1? It seems that with Canon 50/1.2, CV 35/1.2 and from what I have seen from Noctilux and Hex 1.2 - they all seem to have shallower DOF. Or am I seeing things? ;)
Michiel Fokkema
06-30-2009, 21:09
from your pics its pretty clear that the Nokton is much sharper then the Nocti. I wonder how it will compare to the new Nocti. BUt maybe the Nocti is a bit front focused because the box of film looks much sharper on the Nocti pics.
For me it's clear, I want one.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
After looking at some more pics, I'm sort of puzzled as to why DOF is so large/deep at 1.1? It seems that with Canon 50/1.2, CV 35/1.2 and from what I have seen from Noctilux and Hex 1.2 - they all seem to have shallower DOF. Or am I seeing things? ;)
I had the same impression, the DoF isn't very shallow for f/1.1, looks more like f/1.4 or f/2.0 to me.
After looking at some more pics, I'm sort of puzzled as to why DOF is so large/deep at 1.1? It seems that with Canon 50/1.2, CV 35/1.2 and from what I have seen from Noctilux and Hex 1.2 - they all seem to have shallower DOF. Or am I seeing things? ;)
field curvature, softening the corners of the older lenses probably
from your pics its pretty clear that the Nokton is much sharper then the Nocti. I wonder how it will compare to the new Nocti. BUt maybe the Nocti is a bit front focused because the box of film looks much sharper on the Nocti pics.
For me it's clear, I want one.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
Quite a few other friends have mentioned that the Nokton seems more forgiving at f/1.1 in terms of the depth of field.
I think the earlier picture with the Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 @ f/1.0 may be slightly front focused.
I'll try again with a better set up. Got the idea of a biscuit box and a magazine/newspaper placed at 45 degrees. That should give a better idea of how much depth of field each of the 3 lenses have at 1 m as we examine the sharp bits.
Cheers,
Still my question? Should I forget about mating this lens with my CV Bessa R3M? I am hoping for a definitive answer.
The Bessa R3M is a lifesize viewfinder. The Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 with the supplied hood does protrude into the viewfinder. Focusing is not difficult at all. Whilst I have not shot the lens on the R3M, the R-D1 has the same viewfinder and most of my shots are spot on.
Hope the information is helpful.
Cheers,
p.s. if you like, I can try to get a picture of what you see through the R3M viewfinder. I think my Panasonic LX-3 can just about manage that.
Only thing I don't like is the strong purple fringing. Not a big issue with black & white but with colour it's difficult to correct on an ultra-fast lens as it's usually out of focus and thus larger with a gradient to it.
I definitely like the sharpness and coma control for such a fast lens. I'm planning some night time street shooting when mine arrives and will post shots when I'm done but I'm a slow shooter so everyone will probably be sick of images from this lens by then ;)
helenhill
07-01-2009, 02:38
THANX for the pixs Bennyng & Morgan....:cool:
The 50 1.1 looks Lovely
but to my Eye
not Enough of a Signature so to speak
Nice smooth falloff, dead center sharp, Great Price
but something is Missing
I'm now going instead for less speed and more of a 'LOOK'
which the Nokton 50/ 1.5 seems to have
I realize it can all be rather Subjective...:)
Thanx...Best to All - helen
I just got mine this afternoon and tested it on my M8.
In the street after buying it...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3555/3678706914_2f8c51f104_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/from_max/3678706914/)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2533/3678711922_7b48e333a1_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/from_max/3678711922/)
Not as much character as my C-Sonnar 50/1.5 but still pretty good (especially at the price it is available for here in Hong Kong....:D).
helenhill
07-01-2009, 02:52
Hats Off to You, Meven...Cool Shots !!
THANX for the pixs Bennyng & Morgan....:cool:
The 50 1.1 looks Lovely
but to my Eye
not Enough of a Signature so to speak
Nice smooth falloff, dead center sharp, Great Price
but something is Missing
I'm now going instead for less speed and more of a 'LOOK'
which the Nokton 50/ 1.5 seems to have
I realize it can all be rather Subjective...:)
Thanx...Best to All - helen
I agree with you and meven. It doesn't seem to have a ton of character (whatever that means - individual signature I guess), but I like the way it draws a lot. I feel like I'd need a sonnar to go along with it. But I'm still really impressed. The shots from the last few days have been consistently sharp wide open, which is kind of amazing.
Thanks for the shots, Benny and others.
Could somebody please measure the true speed of the lens by shooting the same subject with the Nokton and another fast lens, at fixed aperture and speed (no Auto, please) and showing histograms ?
Thanks a lot,
Roland.
Chiif Ho
07-01-2009, 04:00
At f2...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/3677143883_b8667ae014.jpg?v=0 (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/3677143883_b8667ae014_b.jpg)
In the night and wide open...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2497/3678725044_15765dfc1e.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2497/3678725044_15765dfc1e_b.jpg)
ISO 200, 1/84 sec, f/1.1 on Epson R-D1. Focused on 'T' at 1 m.
Cheers,
Chiif Ho
07-01-2009, 04:24
In the night and wide open...
ISO 200, 1/84 sec, f/1.1 on Epson R-D1. Focused on 'T' at 1 m.
Cheers,
Oh my... Lovely Balls...
shadowfox
07-01-2009, 05:11
I focus f/1.2-lenses on a slr all the time, and get a pretty ok hit rate (80-90% area I would guess).
It takes practice.. ;)
Sure, I know with practice, you can be proficient with it. But contrast that with an RF camera. No difference in focusing accuracy if you use f/1.1 or f/16.
Erik van Straten
07-01-2009, 09:53
At f2...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/3677143883_b8667ae014.jpg?v=0 (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/3677143883_b8667ae014_b.jpg) I do not very much like the sharpness of the confusion-circle of the specular highlight in the out of focus background. The confusioncircle must be unsharp because the sharpness contredicts the feeling of dept. Also the clearly shown aperture blades at the borders of the specular highlight are ugly.
Erik.
Thanks for the shots, Benny and others.
Could somebody please measure the true speed of the lens by shooting the same subject with the Nokton and another fast lens, at fixed aperture and speed (no Auto, please) and showing histograms ?
Thanks a lot,
Roland.
Roland,
I doubt I will be able to do this, I simply do not have time for that. But somehow, the Nokton does not seem to be a f1.1 lens, it looks a bit slower.
most aperture values are rounded by vendors. while it may be closer to f/1.2, it's probably not that far from f/1.1. you can measure it with a ruler and calculate yourself (assuming the focal length is 50mm...) the actual aperture. i would seriously doubt many people here could tell the difference between f/1.1 and what its *actual* aperture is based on sample photos.
With high refractive index glass, the lens can usually gather more light that the actual diameter of the aperture would indicate. So, they may have calculated the light transmission rather than simply measuring the max aperture diameter as 45.45mm. This would account for the larger DOF than people were expecting.
So perhaps it has f-stop of f/1.2+ but t-stop of f/1.1
With high refractive index glass, the lens can usually gather more light that the actual diameter of the aperture would indicate. So, they may have calculated the light transmission rather than simply measuring the max aperture diameter as 45.45mm. This would account for the larger DOF than people were expecting.
That's the explanation I was looking for, thanks!
Chiif Ho
07-02-2009, 16:37
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3567/3680417679_3824d6b3e5.jpg?v=0 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiif/3680417679/sizes/l/)
One more pic taken at about 7:15pm, wide open, Little India, Dunlop Street - Singapore
Image (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3567/3680417679_3824d6b3e5.jpg?v=0)
One more pic taken at about 7:15pm, wide open, Little India, Dunlop Street - Singapore
Wow that's great, has a nice 3d look to it.
bolohead
07-03-2009, 05:03
I don't want to spoil the party but is it a f2.8 lens or f1.1 :eek:
I mean this is sooo sharp for a 1.1 lens but nonetheless, the dof looks way to big for what it is.
I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to. It may be the transition from the dof to the oof area, but the actual in focus area is about the right size.
It may be that people are not used to seeing such sharp results from a fast lens. This is my fastest RF lens, but I used the Canon EF 50/1.2 and it did not perform as well as this lens wide open.
Here's a 100% crop of the surfboard rack on her right.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2646/3684190053_38d66e2802_o.jpg
fleetwoodjazz
07-03-2009, 05:16
I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to. It may be the transition from the dof to the oof area, but the actual in focus area is about the right size.
It may be that people are not used to seeing such sharp results from a fast lens. This is my fastest RF lens, but I used the Canon EF 50/1.2 and it did not perform as well as this lens wide open.
Here's a 100% crop of the surfboard rack on her right.
Unbelievably good for f1.1. To be honest, all lens nowadays are approaching to "technical perfection" that hardly leaves any rooms for signature.
Sure, this is not full frame sample but very often I find some softness, vignetting of wide open help very much.
I shot the photo below with the Sonnar 50mm and although, it is not technically perfect I just like the depth the Sonnar gives me.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fleetwoodjazz/3608389970/
Thanks for showing us a picture, my conclusion is that this Voigtlander lens is technically too good for me so I'll give it a miss.
I don't want to spoil the party but is it a f2.8 lens or f1.1 :eek:
I mean this is sooo sharp for a 1.1 lens but nonetheless, the dof looks way to big for what it is.
Well the key to this shot is knowing the distance to the subject. If the distance is 15 ft away, there will be more dof, than if the subject was say 4-5 feet away.
I can't imagine a company selling an f/2.8 lens as an f/1.1 lens.
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
fleetwoodjazz
07-03-2009, 06:03
Well the key to this shot is knowing the distance to the subject. If the distance is 15 ft away, there will be more dof, than if the subject was say 4-5 feet away.
I can't imagine a company selling an f/2.8 lens as an f/1.1 lens.
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
Yes, I know about that too. I think earlier in this thread there were some posters that also mentioned about the dof looks rather "thick" for such a lens.
Sure, we have to wait a little bit for more pictures to correctly judge.
I received my lens yesterday and took a stroll with my daughter and snapped this. I really like this lens.
Leica M8, CV Nokton 50mm f/1.1 @ f/1.1, 1/60 sec, ISO 160
Hmm, I get about the same look with my Hex 50/2 wide open - as far as DOF goes. I understand it's all subjective, based on looking at the web pic, but I just dont see that "fast lens-wide open" look/feel to it. Maybe some more pics will clear this up? I hope so, cause I'm rather interested in this lens...
judging from the image that kid was more than 5 meters away maybe even 7m ( m8 is not full frame and she is still really small on that photo) on 5m dof for f1 is around 50cm and on 7 is 1m. so i think dof of this lens is absolutely normal - nothing unusual...
only thing why it is different from noctilux is its sharpness even wide open. i think people are confused because before this we only saw photos from 0.95 canon which is pretty soft(but i still like photos i saw with it) amd noctilux which has that strange bokeh...
buzzardkid
07-03-2009, 07:40
Concerning the DOF issue: nearly all shots here are taken with a digital rangefinder. These have smaller sensors, thus increasing to DOF. That might account for the perception of many viewers here, that the lens produces 1.4 to 2.0 like shots.
Still waiting for a thorough series of full frame film shots before anything definite can be said.
So far, I like the M-Hex 50mm 1.2 better. The 'blue background' shot in the above post scares the cr*p out of me in the OOF areas!
Pickett Wilson
07-03-2009, 07:44
The RF world has become obsessed with photos with out of focus backgrounds. You know, if there is an important photo and no other way to get it, I guess these lenses are fine, but I have never understood the thing with small DOF photos. It seems to be the holy grail of RF photography, though.
buzzardkid
07-03-2009, 07:55
Well, it's just that I'd like the background to not be distracting, and I like shooting in low light. RF photography in general is about shooting available light anyway, right?
All other shots in the above post would do more than fine by my standards, but I've just never seen anything like the 'blue background' shot turn up when shooting the M-Hex. If shooting on film increases the number of shots with that kind of background, I will certainly stick to my M-Hex.
Pickett Wilson
07-03-2009, 08:02
That's the thing, though. All these weird, OOF backgrounds ARE distracting to me. Different strokes, I guess.
Pickett Wilson
07-03-2009, 08:20
Good example. The first thing I see is that harsh background.
CK Dexter Haven
07-03-2009, 08:46
I disagree with Pickett, but agree on that sample.... Not a positive example.
Here, though, is an extreme. The large format route:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/845?size=_original
Personally, i feel (in general, and especially when dealing with pictures of people), that an image without selective DOF means the photographer just never made a decision. I don't really want to see a picture of a person + an environment with both elements at the same level of focus UNLESS the environment is either integral, appropriate, or created/controlled.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyoshima/
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=52144850%40N00&q=R6.2&m=text
These two guys are fantastic at using bokeh for effect, and not just using bokeh for bokeh's sake. That is to say, there are a lot of pictures made by Noctilux owners that seem like they're 'test pictures' to demonstrate the lens' bokeh capabilities. And, they're pretty dull once you get over it. How many times can you tell someone, "yeah, but see- it was exposed by the light of only a candle!"
Concerning the DOF issue: nearly all shots here are taken with a digital rangefinder. These have smaller sensors, thus increasing to DOF. That might account for the perception of many viewers here, that the lens produces 1.4 to 2.0 like shots.
smaller sensor dont change dof - it behave same as if you crop photo.
(i dont know if i am clear but on M8 50mm lens have field of view like 65mm lens on full frame but its depth of field stays like in 50mm lens)
CK Dexter Haven
07-03-2009, 09:35
Pickett,
Not that i need to change your mind, but i'm curious....
This isn't simply a matter associated with rangefinder photographers.
Do you not find this image beautiful?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgual/3681777798/
Pickett Wilson
07-03-2009, 09:41
Soft and flared is better than harsh OOF. With this photo, though, the the blown out window is distracting.
buzzardkid
07-03-2009, 10:00
smaller sensor dont change dof - it behave same as if you crop photo.
(i dont know if i am clear but on M8 50mm lens have field of view like 65mm lens on full frame but its depth of field stays like in 50mm lens)
I read up, you're right. Thanks for educating me!
This is as good as it gets with the Nokton then... I love the sight of it, it looks great, seems well built, nice and rather compact, but I'll stick to the M-Hexanon 50mm 1.2 then:cool:
i just try to say one thing - if you stay in one spot and taking photo of your friend who dont move too - and you use m7 and m8 for example with 50mm lens. you will have wider photo from m7 and tighter with m8 but the bokeh will be same on both photos...
The RF world has become obsessed with photos with out of focus backgrounds. You know, if there is an important photo and no other way to get it, I guess these lenses are fine, but I have never understood the thing with small DOF photos. It seems to be the holy grail of RF photography, though.
I was showing some photos with that shallow dof look to a friend at work. He liked them so I tried to explain some of the variables which contribute to it. Then he says "my fuji goes down to f/2.8" why can't I get that look? I finally suggested that he buy a $70 50mm lens for his digirebel and practice. He kept going on and on about how much he loves his compact digital ... yada, yada. I finally threw my hands up and walked off.
Yeah, everybody is crazy over skinny dof. Look at all those "bokeh groups" on flickr.
bobbytuck
07-03-2009, 13:53
Some sample shots I took with Tri-X in Rodinal with the 50/1.1:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metaincognita/sets/72157620785090949/
I always thought that fast lenses are made for "available darkness" photography .... So far, regarding this 50/1.1, I see only photos taken in bright light with shallow DoF. So, how does this lens perform at night ?
I always thought that fast lenses are made for "available darkness" photography .... So far, regarding this 50/1.1, I see only photos taken in bright light with shallow DoF. So, how does this lens perform at night ?
Light levels can be deceiving. The interior of this piano (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15394172@N08/3492876396/) was extremely dark, but I got the shot by using ISO 1250, and slow shutter speed, while trying to brace the camera.
Some of those shots above may have been in lower light than we think. I know that some were shot indoors without much (any in some cases) sunlight coming in.
Light levels can be deceiving. The interior of this piano (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15394172@N08/3492876396/) was extremely dark, but I got the shot by using ISO 1250, and slow shutter speed, while trying to brace the camera.
Some of those shots above may have been in lower light than we think. I know that some were shot indoors without much (any in some cases) sunlight coming in.
Thomas, your interior of a piano shot is very very good !
Shots from dusk to dawn using fast lenses often have a special atmosphere and colors, that I really like. Hope to see some kind of these photos taken with the new 50/1.1 soon. :)
Just dropped of a roll of Ektachrome 100. In the meantime, I switched it over to the Lumix G1 with the 4/3 adapter. JPEG, all wide open. Japanese Gardens, Portland Orgeon, this evening.
Voigtlander Nokton 50mm 1.1 @ f/1.1 250 sec
Panasonic Lumix G1
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2481/3685548005_d7c8d128f5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrisney/3685548005/)
Fast Lens!
As an user, i have one thing to complain that the 5m - infinity range is too short. It made me focus to the back or front when focusing to 5m or above sometimes esp. taking street photos. Look at Noct, it has a 10m in-between which should be much better. Maybe it's my personal problem.
Popped a couple on the end of a roll of superia 200, you can see the mild falloff in the second shot.
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/9429933-lg.jpg
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/9429932-lg.jpg
I always thought that fast lenses are made for "available darkness" photography .... So far, regarding this 50/1.1, I see only photos taken in bright light with shallow DoF. So, how does this lens perform at night ?
Almost all my shots I've shared so far are taken at night with the exception of of the earliest 2 portraits.
Here's another taken a few days ago..
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2569/3678739162_77bb478c2c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/3678739162/)
Handheld exposure at ISO 100, 1/39 sec, f/1.1 on Epson R-D1.
Cheers,
Looking at these pics, this lens reminds me ALOT of the canon 50mm f1.2L, which is an excellent lens.
Looks like the nokton is going to be amazing.
LeicaTom
07-04-2009, 01:12
Hmmm well, I feel it`s totally lacking character, it seems to work very very sharp, but with a wider DOF it has at f1.1 defeats it`s purpose which makes it all look like something shot at f2 or more :(
There`s no defined signature, no pleasing Bokeh, it`s just not a very exciting lens, the Nocti`s/Hexanon/0.95 and the Canon f1.2 all have separate signatures that are distinctive, and set each other apart from the rest. ~ some for the better or the worst, but they all have something that stands out, this lens just seems to be there and not really looking like it is a f1.1.
Ohh, fellow RFF`ers I`m not commenting on the photos here as being badly photographed , they are all very finely , executed but just as I see them this lens just comes over quite dull, no matter how you shoot it, (this is the lenses fault not the Photographer`s!).
*Those last few shots with the superia 200 look very nice, the Bokeh just seems too smooth and has no definition......as for sharpness it`s got it down dead on, but at the sacrifice of an artistic signature*
I think that this lens will need to be one of those lenses that a Photographer will be needing to work an even better eye and have much more patience to tweak it out, also with an additional serious command of photoshop ~ I`m sorry, lot`s of speed, lot`s of sharpness, but no soul ~ :(
I`m satisfied with my dreamy/fuzzy Canon f1.2. :)
Tom
fleetwoodjazz
07-04-2009, 02:01
Hmmm well, I feel it`s totally lacking character, it seems to work very very sharp, but with a wider DOF it has at f1.1 defeats it`s purpose which makes it all look like something shot at f2 or more :(
There`s no defined signature, no pleasing Bokeh, it`s just not a very exciting lens, the Nocti`s/Hexanon/0.95 and the Canon f1.2 all have separate signatures that are distinctive, and set each other apart from the rest. ~ some for the better or the worst, but they all have something that stands out, this lens just seems to be there and not really looking like it is a f1.1.
Ohh, fellow RFF`ers I`m not commenting on the photos here as being badly photographed , they are all very finely , executed but just as I see them this lens just comes over quite dull, no matter how you shoot it, (this is the lenses fault not the Photographer`s!).
*Those last few shots with the superia 200 look very nice, the Bokeh just seems too smooth and has no definition......as for sharpness it`s got it down dead on, but at the sacrifice of an artistic signature*
I think that this lens will need to be one of those lenses that a Photographer will be needing to work an even better eye and have much more patience to tweak it out, also with an additional serious command of photoshop ~ I`m sorry, lot`s of speed, lot`s of sharpness, but no soul ~ :(
I`m satisfied with my dreamy/fuzzy Canon f1.2. :)
Tom
Ditto, ditto...I feel that this lens will win many hearts especially of lens testers, or those obsess about sharpness but it's quite lacking in the definition.
Ron (Netherlands)
07-04-2009, 02:25
Ditto, ditto...I feel that this lens will win many hearts especially of lens testers, or those obsess about sharpness but it's quite lacking in the definition.
Totally disagree. The pictures are much more pleasant to the eye than the Hex and Leitz lenses, were the out off focus areas many times distract from what one should see and what is really important in the picture. This lens, at least from what I see here gives much more rest to the eye and the eyes are more bound to focus on the fucussing spots. Really an outstanding and much more pleasing rendering than the noctilux and the haxanon. I agree that it tends towards the much pleasing canon 1.2, but is - of course - much sharper. Sure it is also a matter of taste.
i always thought that people buy fast lenses to be able to get sharp results in dark conditions - this lens do that from what i see. but still people talk about character - if you want character and deformities in photos - you can always use cheap lenses or holgas...
i think the nok has one distinct character or signature and that is being really sharp wide open with a smooth oof transition. any other lenses can
do that at f1.1? :D
unfortunately, to me at least, stopping down this lens means getting the oof
highlights with sharp edge bokeh bubbles is a bit of a turn off. they should
have curved the aperture blades.... nevertheless, still an awesome lens in my books...:)
fleetwoodjazz
07-04-2009, 03:34
i always thought that people buy fast lenses to be able to get sharp results in dark conditions - this lens do that from what i see. but still people talk about character - if you want character and deformities in photos - you can always use cheap lenses or holgas...
It's difficult as one can see. Fast lens also used for portrait, like it or not, if size or price don't matter many people would chose a fast lens over a slow one for portraiture. Wide open or stop down depends on the taste like one poster said.
Nonetheless, just to point out that the Noctilux is a not a cheap lens, nor Holga. Similarly Zeiss 50mm Sonnar is nowhere near sharp wide open.
Hmmm well, I feel it`s totally lacking character, it seems to work very very sharp, but with a wider DOF it has at f1.1 defeats it`s purpose which makes it all look like something shot at f2 or more :(
It is lacking in the aberrations that give those other lenses their "character" I would say it probably wasn't in the lens designer's interest to design a lesser lens in the name of satisfying those looking for a particular look. Also, we haven't seen that many shots from this lens, it may have other defining characteristics that become apparent over time. A lack of focus shift is also a nice thing to see.
As for the DOF I prefer having the ~f2 DOF with more diffuse OOF areas. You criticise it for having super diffuse OOF then criticise it for not having a shallow enough DOF. For street light and other low light applications for which this lens was designed I feel the extra DOF will be a boon rather than a burden.
I do agree that the content of a picture taken with this lens will have to speak louder than "funky bokeh" or swirly rendering... which should always be the photographer's intention shouldn't it.
To each their own I guess.
Hmmm well, I feel it`s totally lacking character, it seems to work very very sharp, but with a wider DOF it has at f1.1 defeats it`s purpose which makes it all look like something shot at f2 or more :(
There`s no defined signature, no pleasing Bokeh, it`s just not a very exciting lens, the Nocti`s/Hexanon/0.95 and the Canon f1.2 all have separate signatures that are distinctive, and set each other apart from the rest. ~ some for the better or the worst, but they all have something that stands out, this lens just seems to be there and not really looking like it is a f1.1.
Ohh, fellow RFF`ers I`m not commenting on the photos here as being badly photographed , they are all very finely , executed but just as I see them this lens just comes over quite dull, no matter how you shoot it, (this is the lenses fault not the Photographer`s!).
*Those last few shots with the superia 200 look very nice, the Bokeh just seems too smooth and has no definition......as for sharpness it`s got it down dead on, but at the sacrifice of an artistic signature*
I think that this lens will need to be one of those lenses that a Photographer will be needing to work an even better eye and have much more patience to tweak it out, also with an additional serious command of photoshop ~ I`m sorry, lot`s of speed, lot`s of sharpness, but no soul ~ :(
I`m satisfied with my dreamy/fuzzy Canon f1.2. :)
Tom
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Virtually everything you cite as a negative I see as a positive. I am finding the lens more and more attractive even though I was not interested at first because I thought it would create images that looked too mannered.
I don't believe any lenses have soul. The greatest attribute I hope for in a lens is that it be neutral. I like sharpness. The last thing I want viewers thinking about when they view my images is what lens I used.
fleetwoodjazz
07-04-2009, 04:39
We should open a poll as:
"Had the Noctilux been as cheap as the VC 50 mm1.1 which one would you choose?"
Expect some interesting answers ;)
Pickett Wilson
07-04-2009, 04:45
I just wonder how many people actually use these lenses after the initial frenzy of bokeh busting shots have been made? They are big and heavy (at least in the RF world).
Chiif Ho
07-04-2009, 04:55
I just wonder how many people actually use these lenses after the initial frenzy of bokeh busting shots have been made? They are big and heavy (at least in the RF world).
I would... it's actually not as heavy and big as it seems. Mounted on the RF body, it's actually well balanced and good to shoot with.
I just wonder how many people actually use these lenses after the initial frenzy of bokeh busting shots have been made? They are big and heavy (at least in the RF world).
Well, I have a CV 35/1.2 - also not a small lens for rf, yet it remains one of my most used lenses. size and weight dont bother me at all with it.
Well, it's just that I'd like the background to not be distracting, and I like shooting in low light. RF photography in general is about shooting available light anyway, right?
All other shots in the above post would do more than fine by my standards, but I've just never seen anything like the 'blue background' shot turn up when shooting the M-Hex. If shooting on film increases the number of shots with that kind of background, I will certainly stick to my M-Hex.
I thought you were selling your Hex 50/1.2 (in a kit with a body), or did you change your mind?
I read up, you're right. Thanks for educating me!
This is as good as it gets with the Nokton then... I love the sight of it, it looks great, seems well built, nice and rather compact, but I'll stick to the M-Hexanon 50mm 1.2 then:cool:
Actually, what I see reminds me a little of the Hex 50 1.2, a modern look and sharper than the Noctilux and Canons. Neither have any "character" producing flaws that are obvious to me.
I still like the look of the Hex a bit better - but that, of course, is so subjective as to be all but worthless without spending time with both lenses. Of course the fabulous build and handling of the Hex would be hard to beat, but I think the Cosina lens is clearly a winner.
Regarding the desirability of "character", I do agree that the character flaws in lenses like the Noctilux and Canons can make for special shots - I wouldn't give a good copy of one of those up for the Cosina. Better to get both:D, but that is just me and my taste.
Hmmm well, I feel it`s totally lacking character, it seems to work very very sharp, but with a wider DOF it has at f1.1 defeats it`s purpose which makes it all look like something shot at f2 or more :(
There`s no defined signature, no pleasing Bokeh, it`s just not a very exciting lens, the Nocti`s/Hexanon/0.95 and the Canon f1.2 all have separate signatures that are distinctive, and set each other apart from the rest. ~ some for the better or the worst, but they all have something that stands out, this lens just seems to be there and not really looking like it is a f1.1.
Ohh, fellow RFF`ers I`m not commenting on the photos here as being badly photographed , they are all very finely , executed but just as I see them this lens just comes over quite dull, no matter how you shoot it, (this is the lenses fault not the Photographer`s!).
*Those last few shots with the superia 200 look very nice, the Bokeh just seems too smooth and has no definition......as for sharpness it`s got it down dead on, but at the sacrifice of an artistic signature*
I think that this lens will need to be one of those lenses that a Photographer will be needing to work an even better eye and have much more patience to tweak it out, also with an additional serious command of photoshop ~ I`m sorry, lot`s of speed, lot`s of sharpness, but no soul ~ :(
I`m satisfied with my dreamy/fuzzy Canon f1.2. :)
Tom
Given your retro specialty, I don't think the Cosina will make it into you bag. I can't see it improving on your amazing shots with the old lenses!
fleetwoodjazz
07-04-2009, 05:41
I've spent most of my life shooting SLRs and DSLRs. My usual rig is a Canon 1D Mark IIn and an L lens... Suffice it to say, there's nothing in the RF world that I would consider "big" or "heavy." ;)
A lot of people called the 1,2/35 Nokton big and heavy, and I have to say that yes, as far as RF lenses go it's approaching the end of the scale. But even so, it's not nearly as bad as it might sound. I find the lens a real pleasure to use and the results are more than worth it. If this new Nokton is anything like it, and it seems like it is, then I think there will be a lot of pleasantly surprised people.
Besides, these are both very fast lenses - what would you expect? There are plenty of slower lenses out there if you want compactness over speed. Get yourself a Skopar and call it a day.
I shoot all from medium format, DSLR to large format and I think the the 35mm 1.2 is not that big actually.
The argument only started I think because between the 35mm 1.4 and the 35mm 1.2, the size difference is way too huge compare to the difference in speed.
Brian Sweeney
07-04-2009, 05:47
I think the images are beautiful. The optical engineers did an amazing job and Cosina did an even more amazing job in producing the lens in this price range.
Saturated colors, sharp details. Slight astigmatism and slight over-correction of spherical aberration. Not quite as pronounced as a Summarit or Nikkor 5.8cm F1.4 F-Mount lens. On the other hand, someone shoot a picture wide-open at closest focus with some real structure in the background. I'm betting "Summarit Swirlies" pop up bigtime. The lens has higher contrast due to modern glass and multicoating. But it shows the Xenon character, but corrected into the 21st century.
I favor vintage lenses formulated without a computer. That's because I "eat, sleep, dream, and breathe" computers. Sometimes I need to get away from it.
BUT: creating and producing this lens at this price just amazes me.
Brian Sweeney
07-04-2009, 05:56
i always thought that people buy fast lenses to be able to get sharp results in dark conditions - this lens do that from what i see. but still people talk about character - if you want character and deformities in photos - you can always use cheap lenses or holgas...
TOO FUNNY! And VERY TRUE!
I made a couple of Rangefinder Coupled single-element lenses for photographers to use on there M8's. Got a kick out of a $5 single element lens on a $5000 camera. Get one of those "plastic free with Subscription" time/life cameras, put it on the mount of an I61L/D. Then take the I61L/D optics module and put it on a Contax mount. I use collapsible mounts from the CZJ 5cm f2 Sonnar. You get two distinctive lenses.
LeicaTom
07-04-2009, 05:58
Given your retro specialty, I don't think the Cosina will make it into you bag. I can't see it improving on your amazing shots with the old lenses!
Thank You Gary,
I was sort of hoping that it would be rendering much more attractive and artistic styled photos, but just being really fast and very sharp, does`nt cut it in my personal styles of the Photography I do, there`s got to be the look of certain signatures and eras as well.
As I`ve read there`s some who agree with me and some who disagree about the Cosina, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and each lens out there has it`s own look and distintive useage, it`s really up to the Photographer to select what he or she feels good with and that what makes their work shine and stand out from all the rest.
It took me over 7 years of trial and error to get my look where I want it, and in all the equipment I have collected in the past 3 years, I can finally say that my pallet is complete and I`m satisfied with what I work with, I can consider myself lucky to have found that out, while now I have more time to invest in my busniess and have less worry about thinking if I have the right lens/camera body etc. for the job - now I do :)
Happy Shooting!
Tom
[COLOR=white]I agree that it tends towards the much pleasing canon 1.2, but is - of course - much sharper. Sure it is also a matter of taste.
Agree, but my 50mm 1.2L was a pretty damn sharp lens - even wide open. A lot of people complain about issues with them especially when photographing test charts etc, but in real life I found it very very sharp. Similar to the sharpness of this nokton wide open but with less purple aberration (though those shots were on m8 so they're a crop of the center of the lens)
Brian Sweeney
07-04-2009, 06:14
Sonnar formula lenses are all about character.
Planar/Xenon formula lenses are all about optical corrections. That's why they "won-out". It's just easier to get rid of aberrations by making the front/rear gorups as symmetric as possible and then applying tweeks. The specific tweeks and compromises define the Bokeh.
Looking at the photo's posted, I think the higher contrast and "picture postcard" saturated colors define this lens as a 21st century continuation of the Japanese lenses from the 60s. If you liked the color of 1950s Kodachrome, this is not the lens for you. And finding someone to do K-11 process is hard these days.
buzzardkid
07-04-2009, 07:33
I thought you were selling your Hex 50/1.2 (in a kit with a body), or did you change your mind?
Nope!
Thats a spare kit I came into possession of a while ago. It's never been shot, thw whole set is brand new.
My own lens I will not sell, kidney goes first:D It's stuck on the M5 most of the time, killer combo!
Very smart of you to conclude, I only changed my evilbay ID to my RFF ID yesterday!
dogberryjr
07-04-2009, 08:53
Here are some DOF samples, also in low light. All are at f1.1 with focus on the front, middle or rear can.
fleetwoodjazz
07-04-2009, 09:09
Do you know how far were you to the focus points?
dogberryjr
07-04-2009, 09:12
Do you know how far were you to the focus points?
I shot the front can first, just over minimum focus distance, and kept the camera at about the same place for the other two shots.
dogberryjr
07-04-2009, 09:21
And I think I'll be just fine in low light situations, too.
CK Dexter Haven
07-04-2009, 09:50
"I hate to use the term "real world shooting" but when you do nothing but shoot batteries, rulers, test charts and brick walls..."
This has become as much of a misdirected cliche as the phrase "the liberals...."
Nobody ONLY shoots test charts. I don't know what's wrong with shooting test images to know what you're working with. And, to know if you got what you paid for. The assumption that all lenses perform equally is wrong. The assumption that to lens manufacturers don't issue duds/lemons is also wrong. I've experienced both sample variation and the 'lemon' problem. The former with a Canon L lens and the latter with a Leica ASPH.
Professionals test their gear quite often. It's one thing to be able to live with a lens' peculiarities and quirks such as focus shift when you shoot only for yourself and have the luxury to Not get the shot. It's another thing to have to shoot to a layout and perform for an art director with a budget, professional expectations, and your career and reputation on the line. Or, even when you're trying to Build a career. In those situations, you need consistent, predictable, and repeatable results.
I tried the Canon 50L. I tried three of them, actually. I'm glad some people have been happy with theirs. My first two didn't focus accurately at 1.2. The third finally did, but still wasn't as sharp as my old 50/1.4 EF. The L had great bokeh, but overall just didn't perform at a level commensurate with its price and size/weight. I eventually found a Sigma 50/1.4 that worked well and gives me both sharpness and bokeh.
I just bought the Nokton 50/1.1. I'm surprised, but not shocked, to see criticisms of it, already, in this forum. I'm wondering if the same comments will be made about the $9000 Noctilux. Probably not, i'm guessing. It's funny - about the Nokton.... If it had come out before or alongside the f1 Noctilux, everyone initially would have called the Leica lens a dog. They would have looked at it from a purely technical perspective. But, without that direct competition, people found a way to use the Noctilux' character/flaws to make pictures that matched that lens' capabilities. With time, the same will be said of the Nokton. It is what it is: an f1.1 Nokton. Does it not have "character?" Is has the same lack of character that a Summilux or Summicron doesn't have.... If you buy a super fast lens to get swirly stuff in the background, buy a swirly lens, but criticizing the next super fast lens for not doing that is kind of silly.
Personally, i'm kind of glad the Nokton doesn't have that kind of 'gimmick' associated with it. I don't want to make pictures that especially have a lens characteristic FIRST associated with the picture. I'd like to make nice photographs. Not nice "Nokton photographs." If the viewer FIRST thinks, "ooh - what kind of lens does THAT?" i don't take it in a complimentary manner.
Morca007
07-04-2009, 09:57
artistic styled photos
What a load of crap. So now it's the lens that that's responsible for a photograph being art? Can you recommend a lens to me so that I can make some art, please?
Night portrait.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2281/3687309480_372665e048.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2281/3687309480_372665e048_b.jpg)
A few more here.. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/)
Cheers,
buzzardkid
07-04-2009, 11:02
Night portrait.
A few more here.. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/)
Cheers,
Although I'm still not sure this lens is my cup of tea, it sure appears to be yours Benny! That is a great shot.
Brian Sweeney
07-04-2009, 11:26
What a load of crap. So now it's the lens that that's responsible for a photograph being art? Can you recommend a lens to me so that I can make some art, please?
The Summar.
How many lights-points were there really?
bo_lorentzen
07-04-2009, 11:29
Another real life shot. across the table at Cafe Verona on la Brea this morning. the lens is tack sharp yet a bit low contrast, the background is trees and bushes so the highlights are sky and sunshine, which makes for very high contrast creating the resulting circles of light in the defocus area. the hairs by the back of the head have already moved to be almost just a blur.
http://www.bophoto.com/dpreview/2009-07-04-50mm-nokton-11-Joyce.jpg
http://bophoto.typepad.com/bophoto/2009/07/voightlander-50mm-11-its-here.html
.
;););):
http://www.pinholephotography.org/110%20camera%20sales%20page.htm
What a load of crap. So now it's the lens that that's responsible for a photograph being art? Can you recommend a lens to me so that I can make some art, please?
Brian Sweeney
07-04-2009, 18:32
bo_lorentzen: Now those are Summarit Swirlies in the background!
Not as wild and crazy as a Canon 50/.0.95 or a Summarit.
That is what I want to see! Some astigmatism, and over-correction for spherical aberration. And who says this lens does not have character! HAH!
This is with the Nikkor 5.8cm F1.4 in F-Mount. Also shows astigmatism, not as pronounced as a Summarit.
Nikkor 5.8cm F1.4, wide-open on the Nikon F Photomic (Bullseye).
The 5.8cm F1.4 is a classic Xenon with the front element split into two of lesser power. It is a 1-1-2-2-1 vs the Summarit 1-2-2-1-1.
FOOTNOTE: I put this image up as the "Swirlies", ie football shapes in the out-of-focus region looks like the above Portrait. They are caused by astigmatism, as seen in the Summarit. This Nokton has the characteristics of a super-speed Xenon derivitive.
I like it!
Brian Sweeney
07-04-2009, 18:47
And this lens was created for an Artist.
http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=99&pictureid=829
It has every lens aberration possible. It is a 1-3-2-1 configuration made from the front half of a J-8 and back half of a Schneider Xenon. It is RF coupled.
Just wait until they do a sequel to the X-Files. They are gonna want one of these babies!
LeicaTom
07-04-2009, 22:07
What a load of crap. So now it's the lens that that's responsible for a photograph being art? Can you recommend a lens to me so that I can make some art, please?
A lens is tool, just like a hammer is to a carpenter and many people have a "gift" of being able to push that tool just a little bit further than it should normally go, and with a good eye, they might even shoot something called ART!!!!
~ HCB did it with an ole beat up Screw Mount Leica and a Zeiss Sonnar, and many other famous Photographer`s have done it with even less.......
Go out and buy a Canon f1.5/50 in LTM and put it on a Leica M3 or M6 and shoot some ART till your eyes fall out!!!!!
That`s the lens to do it with, trust me ;)
Now that`s my load of crap, I`m sure many here will agree with, now go find a pretty model or a fascinating subject
and shoot!!!!! :D
Tom
Pickett Wilson
07-05-2009, 02:12
Lens wars: the sequel, coming to a theater near you. ;)
Here are a couple of examples from Bennyng's photos on DOF differences:
DOF with Noctilux is here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/3677396650/
and similar photo DOF with new Nokton 50/1.1:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/3677305260/
I think it's very clear from these that Nokton has a much larger DOF.
Epimetheus
07-05-2009, 06:04
Here are a couple of examples from Bennyng's photos on DOF differences:
DOF with Noctilux is here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/3677396650/
and similar photo DOF with new Nokton 50/1.1:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngminchai/3677305260/
I think it's very clear from these that Nokton has a much larger DOF.
It looks like the first picture was taken from a closer distance if you compare the size of the man in the foreground. Closer distance would create more blur on background.
It looks like the first picture was taken from a closer distance if you compare the size of the man in the foreground. Closer distance would create more blur on background.
The color picture was shot standing up. The monochrome picture was shot 5 steps to the left and shot from the knee level. I was slightly closer to the subject in the monochrome image because of the change in position.
Cheers,
The color picture was shot standing up. The monochrome picture was shot 5 steps to the left and shot from the knee level. I was slightly closer to the subject in the monochrome image because of the change in position.
Cheers,
So, there was not a significant difference in distance to account for such a significant difference in DOF? Correct? In other words, CV lens has a lot deeper DOF for 1.1 lens compared to 1.0 lens?
I considered this CV50mm 1.1 but opted for the 60mm Hexanon 1.2. It is a bit more expensive, but much less than the Noctilux. It's got a signature at F1.2, but starting at F1.4 and above it becomes contrasty. Build quality is great (I love the aperture ring), fairly small light for a super fast lens (I guess similar to the CV1.1) and big bonus, it matches perfectly the 50mm framelines of a non upgraded M8. So if you are in search of a super fast 50-60 for the M8, also take a look at it.
So really, all I can say is Cocorricooo.
The kodak lab thought it would be funny to rape my nokton negatives. I think I've taken colour correction for granted, I'll have to invest in either my own scanner or start shooting with colour correction filters. They also managed to get uneven blotches on the negatives rendering quite a few frames unusable. As this was a wedding shoot I'm quite stressed, they also didn't scan the entire provia roll. As a result of the botched negatives they didn't charge me, but I also won't go there again. I'll get the negatives rescanned at the Fuji pro lab in town tomorrow as well as get my provia scanned and the other roll of superia I just finished, hopefully have something nice to show you all soon.
you may want to consider developing your own rolls... you may not if it were a wedding. i probably would. but for everything else, it saves having to worry about what someone at the lab does out of your control...
you may want to consider developing your own rolls... you may not if it were a wedding. i probably would. but for everything else, it saves having to worry about what someone at the lab does out of your control...
'Tis colour though, and I cannot control the temperature nor do I want to handle colour chemicals :(
I think it was just poor choice by me going for a cheap lab.
i develop all of my own colour e6 & c41... (sometimes i even experiment by doing some weird hybrid of both - e6 pre developer and then c41 developer, etc.)
controlling the temperature is really quite easy and you can wear kitchen gloves :)
but yeah i know what you mean about the cheap labs...
adrianzg
07-06-2009, 14:02
just tried it at the shop, it's a huge chunk of glass, impressive sharpness but i expected much narrower dof at 1.1 :(
wide open on superia 200:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3611/3693199871_1362b77296_b.jpg
was hoping to find something more like this:
prototype zeiss sonnar on the same roll of film:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3613/3693194765_508e0a40da_b.jpg
Freakscene
07-06-2009, 21:57
I read up, you're right. Thanks for educating me!
This is as good as it gets with the Nokton then... I love the sight of it, it looks great, seems well built, nice and rather compact, but I'll stick to the M-Hexanon 50mm 1.2 then:cool:
The effective depth-of-field (DoF) is less on a crop camera, due to the additional enlargement needed for the same size print or screen image; this results in a smaller allowable circle of confusion at the image plane; thus slightly smaller DoF.
The DOF shrinks exponentially as focal length increases, and linearly due to crop factor, at normal (non-macro) image heights.
There is vast misinformation on depth of field on the internet, largely due to the theory of DoF being based on mathematics that most people don't seem to be able to grasp, and a large amount of pre-existing misleading and incorrect information.
Marty
Superia 400, f/1.1, 1/1000s taken during the golden hour yesterday
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/9444476-lg.jpg
Don't want to start a war, just have to say that this lens is not more magical than any other lens out there! Seems like Noctilux owner shoot more carefully for maximum effect with their expensive lens thus making more moving reaching pictures!
I would love to see this lens on various film emulsion (portra NC, velvia etc.)
Don't want to start a war, just have to say that this lens is not more magical than any other lens out there! Seems like Noctilux owner shoot more carefully for maximum effect with their expensive lens thus making more moving reaching pictures!
I would love to see this lens on various film emulsion (portra NC, velvia etc.)
I think the first statement smacks of flamebait, unless you just chose not to read any of the posts prior to this page. It's f/1.1 with high sharpness and nice OOF for $1200... This ground has been covered in previous pages of this thread, the lens is an excellent design with very minimal aberrations, had leica released it as a bargain non-asph version of noctilux people would sing it's praises from the hilltops.
I don't look at an incredibly moving photograph and think wow I want his/her lens, I'll say wow what a photographer. How does owning a noctilux make one try harder to get a good photograph? What nonsense.
I have some shots taken on provia I was going to post but I honestly think I'll just post them in a gallery with no mention of the equipment used and see what people say. Incidentally can you show me a shot taken with a noctilux where it's character is essential to the emotional/storytelling nature of the photograph?
Sorry I should have measured what I was saying. Please don't be offended any one. This lens is a bargain for us leica folks. Alright.
On the noctilux subject, I have saw many shots where the rendition is just like a big format film. The OOF is so smooth and the Focal point is so sharp, it costs this price for a reason.
Concerning the new nokton, I never saw a single shot where the OOF is very special. It just looks like blurry OOF without even being smooth. The OOF of the noktilux seems smoother.
That is the kind of info I was seeking in this thread. Please feel free to post the pics here. My previous young lad comment only reflects my lack of patience and taste. Don't bother with it.
Cheers.
Brian Sweeney
07-07-2009, 11:22
Let me think.
This lens has been out for Two Weeks. The Noctilux has been out for almost 40 years.
So: test Shots from the Cosina should be judged against 40 years of Noctilux shots to decide which to choose from.
Or maybe the $9000 price difference will influence people even more.
If you want a special lens for OOF, get a 5cm F1.5 Summarit.
Incidentally can you show me a shot taken with a noctilux where it's character is essential to the emotional/storytelling nature of the photograph?
Are you kidding? That is what the whole Nocti hype is about. A fascinating look that no other lens creates.
http://www.flickriver.com/groups/63271221@N00/pool/interesting/
padraigm
07-07-2009, 12:06
Prosaic, not sure if those picture are yours but those are some stellar pictures. Time will tell if the Nokton can match up. I have had it for all of 2 hours and took some quick shots around the house with the M8 and so far I am still excited. The noctilux was always way out of my reach so I am grateful for something more affordable. I must point out thought, that on the picture of the candle you can see the apperature blades in the OOF highlight. It was pointed out previously where the Nokton shows this also. Not as severe granted but still possible. It may never be as good as the nocti but probably 95% of the time it is good enough. Even if some decide they don't like the signature of this lens I would imagine it puts trmendous pressure on prices in the used Nocti market fand thats a plus for those trying to make that happen at some point. Overall I can't think of any negatives for the release of this lens... It is very welcome to many including myself.
P. Lynn Miller
07-07-2009, 12:11
I think it would be best to take the Nokton 50/1.1 at face value for its own character and personality. Comparing the Nokton to the Noctilux, Canon 0.95, Nikkor 1.1, Zunow 1.1, etc and etc, other than in passing reference is a waste of time. Each of the high-speed 50mm lenses is going to deliver a unique signature. Learn to use each one for its strengths and weaknesses.
I did not buy the Nokton to satisfy my lust for a Noctilux or Zunow, but because it was a very fast, versatile lens that will fill a very important niche in my lens arsenal, a very high speed normal lens to wring the last ounce of light out of available darkness. I have not bothered to post anything that I have shot yet because I yet to find the sweet spot of the Nokton that makes it distinctive and unique, where I can use the Nokton to bring more than a fast aperture to the scene.
Time will show that the Nokton will find its place among the stable for super-fast 50's and at the moment if you are considering buying the Nokon f1.1, I would not hesitate, as there are no more coming from Cosina in the foreseeable future.
Well, while nothing will match Noctilux, there are lenses in the same price range, like Cosina's own CV35/1.2 that does look better when it comes to bokeh, etc.
I have no idea what the discussion is about here. The Nokton 50 f1.1 is a modern, ultra fast normal at an affordable price. Performance is stellar by any standard. One reason i did not like the Noctiluxes was its signature - not particularly good in mid-range, soft contrast at f1.0 etc. It wasn't that I didn't try to like it - went through 6 of them!
I have tried and used the Nikon/Zunow 50 1.1, the Konica 60f1.2 (only one that comes even close to the Nokton's performance - haven't shot enough with the 50f1.2 Konica to warrant an opinion). the Canon 0.95/50 - didn't like it.
Of course, if you are looking for a lens with 'signature" - go for the Noctilux - but I want 1 more stop and the edge of a Nokton 50f1.5. The "fuzzy" stuff may fall were it falls - thats not what I am interested in.
As always, to each his own and for me that will be the Nokton!!!
Well, while nothing will match Noctilux, there are lenses in the same price range, like Cosina's own CV35/1.2 that does look better when it comes to bokeh, etc.
no offense but i really dont understand why would someone want to match noctilux... with nokton f1.1 they are decades ahead of noctilux.
P. Lynn Miller
07-07-2009, 13:31
Well, Tom... it sure ain't about the photos!
The one thing I really like about the Nokton 50/1.1 is how user friendly it is. While it is bulky around the girth, it is very nicely weighted and superbly balanced with silky smooth, quick focusing and snappy aperture. Like a grow'ed up Nokton 50/1.5 but with a better fit and finish.
All in all, while I am not star-struck by the Nokton 1.1, I am very satisfied with my purchase.
bastian a.
07-07-2009, 14:02
I still hope that old Noctiluxes will become cheaper because a lot of people buy the new Nokton ...
:)
Brian Sweeney
07-07-2009, 14:31
The F1.1 Nokton is an amazing achievement.
Cosina is to be commended, and the new owners are to be congratulated.
As far as character, fast, sharp, plenty of contrast, and little vignetting.
If someone buys this lens and is unhappy with its character, I can FIX that. Send it to me, and I will remount the rear element in backwards. That will produce plenty of character.
I still hope that old Noctiluxes will become cheaper because a lot of people buy the new Nokton ...
i think the Mandler-designed Noctilux will actually increase in price for awhile: a) the price of the .95 is out of reach for many but owning one is still quite desireable & b) the .95 seems to lack *some* of the character of the 1.2 and 1.0 that i believe people were expecting in the nokton 1.1
i could be wrong and it's only my opinion, but it's been my observation so far...
personally, i like my new nokton. it is a little different than my Canon 1.2 LTM. i'll still use both, but the sharpness of the nokton (and its smooth transition out of DoF) gives it a character of its own. the only think i dislike is the oof highlights if it is stopped down at all. as someone else pointed out - why don't they use curved blades?! even my jupiter does...
Gabriel M.A.
07-07-2009, 14:51
There will always be some people that will not be satisfied.
Always. You can take that to the bank. And then buy the Noctilux :D
Brian Sweeney
07-07-2009, 14:53
Curved Blades- I'm sure someone studied that. With an aperture of thise size, you have to be careful that the blades move smoothly and do not hang up. The Nikkor 5cm F1.1 is infamous for blades running amuck.
P. Lynn Miller
07-07-2009, 15:13
If someone buys this lens and is unhappy with its character, I can FIX that. Send it to me, and I will remount the rear element in backwards. That will produce plenty of character.
Unhappy with your lens... book it for one 'Brian's Lens Character-Building Sessions'... give your lens a real personality! :)
no offense but i really dont understand why would someone want to match noctilux... with nokton f1.1 they are decades ahead of noctilux.
Ahead or behind, depends on perspective.
So far, I read more comments of people being disappointed by how stinking "normal" the lens draws than the way round.
Peter Klein
07-07-2009, 16:29
There are cheaper ways than a Noctilux to get "character." Try a Canon 50/1.2 wide open. Or a Summitar (coma city!). Or a (classic screw-mount) Summarit. Or any Sonnar-design lens.
People complained about the VC 35/1.2 having a lack of character, too. I think it's wonderful.
So, there was not a significant difference in distance to account for such a significant difference in DOF? Correct? In other words, CV lens has a lot deeper DOF for 1.1 lens compared to 1.0 lens?
If one looks at the bigger images (Noctilux (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2630/3677396650_65c275f81d_b.jpg), Nokton (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/3677305260_b0af572792_b.jpg)), it looks like Nokton was focused some 1 - 2 meters behind the subject. That would affect DOF quite significantly.
Brian Sweeney
07-07-2009, 16:50
I've seen one close-up portrait with enough structure in the background to allow the character of this lens to be evaluated. I'll stick with the assertion that it shows slight astigmatism and slight over-correction for spherical aberration- the "trademark" of a super-speed Xenon derivative. "Some Swirlies" in the OOF areas.
Maybe I'll buy one of these just to compare with the other classic super-speed lenses.
And, I'll put up some shots made with lenses with the rear element reversed.
elshaneo
07-07-2009, 17:13
I saw the lens last Monday, it's a real beauty although it kind of dwarf the Leica M8 it was attached to ;-)
Dan States
07-07-2009, 17:34
The answer to carping about the lens not having a "signature" is for CV to make a special "Signature" edition. This version would have strong field curvature, making it unpredictable for off center focus. It needs loads of vignetting, so that the outer 30% of the frame is so dark you might as well have been using an F2 lens, and a definite yellow color cast, so your slides will never match in color balance with your other lenses.
Just for giggles, lets give it some strong focus shift, and don't forget to make it a chore to focus by designing in a slow, heavy focus action. To cap it off lets add a nice plastic built in lens hood that never stays in place!
What shall we call it?
Are you kidding? That is what the whole Nocti hype is about. A fascinating look that no other lens creates.
http://www.flickriver.com/groups/63271221@N00/pool/interesting/
A cosina 55/1.2 SLR lens renders just like that. Brilliant photographs none the less. Believe me if I owned a noctilux I wouldn't sell it to buy the Nokton, but I cannot see anything in those shots that couldn't have happened with the Nokton/Canon0.95 and still had the same intrigue and impact.
On the noctilux subject, I have saw many shots where the rendition is just like a big format film. The OOF is so smooth and the Focal point is so sharp, it costs this price for a reason.
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/9444573-lg.jpg
Sorry for the colour cast, the lab cross processed my film by ignorance. Unfortunately it's just a low res scan, when I start digitizing my own negatives/slides I'll repost some images.
fleetwoodjazz
07-07-2009, 22:05
I have no idea what the discussion is about here. The Nokton 50 f1.1 is a modern, ultra fast normal at an affordable price. Performance is stellar by any standard. One reason i did not like the Noctiluxes was its signature - not particularly good in mid-range, soft contrast at f1.0 etc. It wasn't that I didn't try to like it - went through 6 of them!
I have tried and used the Nikon/Zunow 50 1.1, the Konica 60f1.2 (only one that comes even close to the Nokton's performance - haven't shot enough with the 50f1.2 Konica to warrant an opinion). the Canon 0.95/50 - didn't like it.
Of course, if you are looking for a lens with 'signature" - go for the Noctilux - but I want 1 more stop and the edge of a Nokton 50f1.5. The "fuzzy" stuff may fall were it falls - thats not what I am interested in.
As always, to each his own and for me that will be the Nokton!!!
Tom, I agree to most of your points especially that the new Nokton is stellar in terms of performance. A long while back I was still in England, there was a guy who buy ISO 50 film only so that he can shoot his Noctilux wide open in the day light. I thought he was kind of insane...
Gradually I understood that he may not have been as insane as I though. Most people don't need f1 speed anyway, they buy such a lens for the "signature" at large aperture settings. :p
Of course bright, sharp etc can be defined as the signature of this Nokton. For some, this is the signature they would like to have, for others it may not be. :)
Leica can therefore keep hold to their pricing of the Noctilux with reasons be that the new Nokton don't have the "signature" of their Nocti. Oh...dear :angel:
noimmunity
07-08-2009, 03:25
if you are considering buying the Nokon f1.1, I would not hesitate, as there are no more coming from Cosina in the foreseeable future.
When did this become a special limited production lens?
... Sorry for the colour cast, the lab cross processed my film by ignorance
wow!! what film base??! they're *great* hues for xpro and i'd love to give it a go. i thought i'd xpro'd just about everything...
If one looks at the bigger images (Noctilux (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2630/3677396650_65c275f81d_b.jpg), Nokton (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/3677305260_b0af572792_b.jpg)), it looks like Nokton was focused some 1 - 2 meters behind the subject. That would affect DOF quite significantly.
I just looked again and they look to be focused about the same, not behind. Maybe I'm not seeing something?
There are cheaper ways than a Noctilux to get "character." Try a Canon 50/1.2 wide open. Or a Summitar (coma city!). Or a (classic screw-mount) Summarit. Or any Sonnar-design lens.
People complained about the VC 35/1.2 having a lack of character, too. I think it's wonderful.
I have tried all of those lenses you list and while each does offer something in terms of signature - none are like Noctilux. Also, i too own a CV 35/1.2 and love it, and I have never seen anyone complain about it's lack of character, actually, rather people rave about it's signature. What people usually complain about when it comes to this lens is it's size and weight.
Tom, I agree to most of your points especially that the new Nokton is stellar in terms of performance. A long while back I was still in England, there was a guy who buy ISO 50 film only so that he can shoot his Noctilux wide open in the day light. I thought he was kind of insane...
Gradually I understood that he may not have been as insane as I though. Most people don't need f1 speed anyway, they buy such a lens for the "signature" at large aperture settings. :p
Of course bright, sharp etc can be defined as the signature of this Nokton. For some, this is the signature they would like to have, for others it may not be. :)
Leica can therefore keep hold to their pricing of the Noctilux with reasons be that the new Nokton don't have the "signature" of their Nocti. Oh...dear :angel:
I mostly agree with this too. I think that a new Nokton is a great lens, even it's signature is OK. Based on what I have seen from it - its not as nice as CV 35/1.2, but good enough. However, what bothers me the most about the high speed lens like this, is it's large-ish DOF, compared to other similar lenses. Me, personally, I like fast lenses for that narrow DOF wide open and I'm not sure 50/1.1 delivers it. Thats why I just keep looking at pics from it, hoping to be proved wrong, as I really would like to buy this lens. Yet recent Noctilux lenses in classifieds here look very tempting.
wow!! what film base??! they're *great* hues for xpro and i'd love to give it a go. i thought i'd xpro'd just about everything...
Haha I'll ask my kodak shop. The film is provia 100f, I think what happened is they put c-41 chemicals in the e-6 machine just as I arrived (witnessed them toppin up the machine) because one end of my negatives show extreme xpro, the other end are just oddly hued in the slightest like this one.
Dan
ah ok cool. i've crossed provia heaps. bummer they screwed up your roll...
i'm really liking this lens more and more.
Likewise ;) More from the same roll, sorry about misfocus in 2
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/9445499-lg.jpg
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/9450420-lg.jpg
oops focused near infinity, cocked shutter then admired the lens and accidently pressed shutter button for an impromptu blurred self-portrait:
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/9448492-lg.jpg
The lens really performs in mid-apertures too, here are f/4 and f/8 respectively on superia 400:
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/9448499-lg.jpg
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/9448498-lg.jpg
I think that's enough for now.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/3700769095_3fa472871a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77257972@N00/3700769095/)
on M8. careful - you might see some character... :)
I mostly agree with this too. I think that a new Nokton is a great lens, even it's signature is OK. Based on what I have seen from it - its not as nice as CV 35/1.2, but good enough. However, what bothers me the most about the high speed lens like this, is it's large-ish DOF, compared to other similar lenses. Me, personally, I like fast lenses for that narrow DOF wide open and I'm not sure 50/1.1 delivers it. Thats why I just keep looking at pics from it, hoping to be proved wrong, as I really would like to buy this lens. Yet recent Noctilux lenses in classifieds here look very tempting.
I agree. And i just sold my nokton to a friend because i found a bargain on a user condition Noct with perfect glass. But i don't mean Nokton is bad, it delivers something that Noct is not able to and vice versa. ;)
I mostly agree with this too. I think that a new Nokton is a great lens, even it's signature is OK. Based on what I have seen from it - its not as nice as CV 35/1.2, but good enough. However, what bothers me the most about the high speed lens like this, is it's large-ish DOF, compared to other similar lenses. Me, personally, I like fast lenses for that narrow DOF wide open and I'm not sure 50/1.1 delivers it. Thats why I just keep looking at pics from it, hoping to be proved wrong, as I really would like to buy this lens. Yet recent Noctilux lenses in classifieds here look very tempting.
I keep wondering how close the lens is to an actual F1.1 - the 35/1.2 seems to be a bit slower than 1.2 when compared with a Hex 1.2. I am sure it's fast enough, but I don't know of any reason the DOF wold be greater than any other 1.1 lenses.
BTW, some very impressive shots have been posted in this thread!
sevres_babylone
07-08-2009, 12:54
http://www.pbase.com/image/114756767.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/zuiko40/image/114756631.jpg
R-D1, Nokton 50mm 1.1 (The black and white is slightly cropped)
This image seems to show a pretty narrow DoF (not sure who's it is):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/reds42/3699441262/in/pool-nokton50f11
Hello all! That'll be me then! Found this by the magic of the Flickr stats page. Just dropped in to say hello !
I'm new to RFs & film, so have no opinions on alternative lenses (yet)! All I know is, I love 50mm; it's a focal length I use a lot in digital (Nikon 50 F/1.2 AIS is my fave on a D700).
And so far, a mere 1st roll in on Fuji Superia 200, I think I'm going to like this lens! I got a few shots that I really like stopped down a bit. I think it's got a beautiful character stopped down a few clicks - like these 2 shots from Sunday.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/reds42/3699431236/in/pool-nokton50f11
http://www.flickr.com/photos/reds42/3699369466/in/pool-nokton50f11/
Haven't really had a chance to use it wide open much, as the light was either gone completely or too bright when I was out at the weekend with it! I'm looking forward to doing some wide open low light shots. I'll post back when I have something to actually contribute ;)
Cheers, Nick.
Brian Sweeney
07-08-2009, 15:28
Welcome to RFF! And congratulations on the new lens. Hope to see you around here!
I agree. And i just sold my nokton to a friend because i found a bargain on a user condition Noct with perfect glass. But i don't mean Nokton is bad, it delivers something that Noct is not able to and vice versa. ;)
Did you buy the Noctilux at Shogun????
Did you buy the Noctilux at Shogun????
yes i do!!!:D:D very good price~
yes i do!!!:D:D very good price~
Please post some photos!!!!
WoolenMammoth
07-08-2009, 18:37
one thing I do not understand about the example full aperature photos posted here, considering that DOF is a purely mathematical thing, is why this lens appears to have much deeper DOF at 1.1 compared to the 50 hex at 1.2. I would never have guessed that *any* of the photos in this thread were shot at 1.1.
This is the absolute perfect lens for all the noctilux naysayers and for anyone that just wants more speed without buying a bunch of "character". On a personal note, judging by the reasons why I reach for my 1.2 hex or even the 1.4 lux, I would never use this lens if it was on my shelf. Id love to try one out and do a proper comparison for myself, but its somewhat baffling to think that any of these photos were shot at 1.1, not saying they werent...
Chiif Ho
07-08-2009, 21:00
For those who are still on debating how big this beast is... can judge for yourself... :)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3703562442_216a58e557.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2656/3702751783_2500fdf2ff.jpg
It's around the same size as my Noct E58, i have compared it side by side, both without hood. Wish it helps. :>
Hmm people don't read posts do they?
I've already stated that it's likely due to the use of high refractive index glass that we're seeing larger DOF but a measured t-stop (light gathering ability) about 2/3 stop faster than 1.4 or equivalent to f/1.1. I have a leica f/1.4 50 on my slr and at iso 400 it meters about 2/3 stop slower than the nokton wide open with 400 ASA superia.
fwiw the pupil is definitely larger than that of the canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM. it looks to be between 43 and 44mm across. assuming they're not rounding down the focal length, that would put make the physical aperture between 1.1 or closer to f1.2.
i finally got around to develop some rolls. here is one on astia
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2663/3704167006_6fffd16be1_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77257972@N00/3704167006/)
M6 || 50 1.1 wide open || Fuji Astia
This image was on the mainline photo blog here in oz ... I hope no one minds me reproducing it here but shows some intersting aspects of the lens!
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn238/mainlinephoto/headstone.jpg
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.