Vacation with Slide Film: Need Tips

[cmdrzed]

I will be spending a week on Pensacola beach this coming month and I would like to shoot with slide film (Kodachrome and Velvia). I want to use the Kodachrome to capture family photos that have a vintage 60's feel while using the Velvia for landscape type shots. The problem is that I am a b/w user and have not shot with chromes before. From what I have read, metering is trickier when using slides. My Nikon FE will be my main camera (not taking my M6 due to sand fears) and it has a 60/40 center-weighted meter. I will shoot a test roll with Velvia tomorrow but I don't think the Kodachrome slides will get back to me before my vacation (plus I don't want to waste a roll of the recently-hard-to-get Kodachrome).

Does anyone have tips, pointers, experience, or decent url references for me? Thanks in advance.

[bmattock]

Does anyone have tips, pointers, experience, or decent url references for me? Thanks in advance.

Yes. Don't shoot slides. Beaches are high-contrast and slide film doesn't have much latitude. Not only is exposure tricky, it could be impossible - you'll end up having to deal with shadows that lack detail or skies and beach sand that is seriously blown out. Of course, that *is* the classic look, if that's what you're after.

The traditional wisdom for slides is expose for highlights. That way you at least don't have blown-out skies and sand. Darks will block up, but there you go.

Use a polarizer, and if you're shooting seascapes, you can try an ND grad, especially since you're shooting an SLR. Just remember what your filter factor is, meter without the ND grad, and then set exposure manually after subtracting out the filter factor for the top half of the ND grad.

I personally think Velvia does typical skin tones rather badly. For typical beach scenes, it's fine if there are no people.

[David William White]

Yes. Shoot slides. Agree, expose for the highlights, but always keep the sun behind you. That means don't shoot while the sun is overhead, so shoot in the mornings or late afternoons and you'll have great light if the sun is behind you.

If you keep the sun behind you, metering will be a breeze.

Also agree people will look better in Kodachrome.

P.S. Keep the sun behind you.

[kazeonrff]

I would say, check out the sky if it's a beautiful one or not! :D

I don't mind blowing out a lousy sky.

[jonmanjiro]

> P.S. Keep the sun behind you.
> shoot in the mornings or late afternoons

Agreed!

[snausages]

I was at a beach location a couple months ago and had no trouble with the couple rolls of slides I shot - the key, as others have mentioned,
was shooting only in the early morning or late afternoon, with the sun behind or beside you.

And I had a meterless camera, so don't stress too much about the exposure once the light is less harsh. This is Ektachrome:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3566/3389875735_168f4ab768_b.jpg

[cmdrzed]

Excellent tips everyone. Maybe I am trying to make slide film more difficult than it should be. My plan is to shoot landscapes/seascapes in the early morning and late afternoon.

snausages: Excellent. I hope to come back with shots like that.

[Darkhorse]

I think Astia would be more forgiving.

[Spyderman]

Why not take your leica M6 ? Its meter is pretty much 95/5 center weighted...

[cmdrzed]

Two reasons for not taking the M6:

1. I have a wider variety of focal lengths for the Nikon than I do for the M. I am a recent convert to Leica (~6 months ago) while I have shot Nikon for years. I am slowly switching over to the rangefinder.

2. Money for a repair in the event something (sand/water) happens to it. I couldn't care less if I end up losing an FE as I have more than one. I would be more distraught over losing the film than the camera.

[Eugen Mezei]

Oh come on boys. Entire generations captured their holidays (on beach or in the mountains) to slide. Most of them were boring, rarely were artistic, but the families enjoyed them.

You can shot bw and perhaps it would be seen by your family as very artistic, but it will end in a drawer and not bee took out in 10 years for the simply reason it doesn't captured memories. You haven't seen your holiday in BW, right?

Slide is not so problematic everybody talks about.

Eugen

[Roger Hicks]

The slide films you get today -- including soon-to-be-gone Kodachrome -- don't give a 1960s look (I shot a lot of slide in the 60s...). If you're after that sort of look, I'd shoot neg and post-process.

Oh: and what do you think sand and water are going to do to your Leica? I've used Leicas on beaches (and indeed in spas) for almost 40 years. Don't worry so much!

Cheers,

R.

[TEZillman]

I've been using slide film for well over 25 years and it just isn't that hard. Yes, the exposure latitude is 5-6 stops as opposed to 10-11 for negative film, but a range of 5-6 stops is not much different than current high end digital cameras. In other words, its sufficient for most purposes. If you're concerned about tricky situations, bracket your shots. The center weighted meter in your FE is a very good. There are situations that will trick it, but you already know what those are. Use your experience from shooting B&W. You won't go too far wrong.

When you're outside, its kind of tough to only make exposures when the sun is behind you. You're missing out on 3/4th of you potential shots. Many shots are far better with side lighting than with frontal lighting. Shots into the sun are problematic with potential flair and exposure problems, but even these can work. Don't be afraid to use fill flash to offset harsh shadows.

I also don't buy the "put the camera away unless its early morning or evening" approach. If you're trying to capture your vacation, much of it is taking place during the rest of the day. "Magic light" is great, but it only takes place for an hour or so a day, if its not overcast.

I realize this will sound like hearesy this week, but I've never liked Kodachrome. In using Kodachrome and Velvia you're using two films with very distinct color palettes. Neither of these is a general purpose film and both are relatively expensive in comparision to other types. I generally use Provia to get great color and good skin tones. It's also available in 100 and 400 ISO as opposed to 64 and 50 which are fine for a sunny day with a fast prime lens, but quickly become too slow in the evening or with a slower lens or if you're trying to capture action.

The most important advise that I could give is to have fun and do not obsess over taking pictures. Film is still fairly cheap. Don't be afraid to try shots that may not work. You could be surprised.

[cmdrzed]

The feedback is good. Maybe my choice of slide film is not the best and should throw in a few more types. Provia and Astia have already been mentioned. I can always pick up a few different rolls before I leave. It would probably make sense to have some 100/400 iso film available in the event it is needed.

I don't want to turn the discussion into a "Take the M/Don't take the M" thread but this will be my first beach visit and justified to myself that I should take the FE's instead. Don't get me wrong, my M6 is a user grade camera and I don't treat it as a collectible. It may not make sense to everyone but it does in my head. Hopefully this won't offend anyone considering this is a rangefinder forum :)

[BillBingham2]

Do not worry about offending, some you will and some you wont and some you just can not tell. I treated my Ms the same way. Vacation yes, beach NO. The FE is a fine choice. Trust the meter as you have with B&W. Another alternative is to use a incident meter (hand held) or trust the sunny-16 rule. When shooting into the sun, take a meter reading off your hand. Small 18% gray would work too but you look funny carrying one of them around. Your palm works well enough. Make sure it's (your hand) got the same light as your subject has on it.

Another option to think about if you are doing the beach thing alot is a Nikonos III. IMHO the most rocking beach camera ever.

B2 (;->

[SolaresLarrave]

Take filters and overexpose by one half stop in contrasty shots. In fact, for harsh light, just filter and go with the meter.

I too have used my Leica in beaches, but then, I understand your reluctance to take it. Besides, if you have more Nikon than Leica glass, use it.

Slide film has simply less latitude than print film. As mentioned above, C-41 can handle sometimes four stops, while slide film won't go beyond two. Use Kodachrome if you're including people in your shots, but switch to something like Ektachrome for landscapes. Velvia is a bit too saturated, and your landscapes won't have much of a color range.

Must confess another heresy: I never liked Velvia. I always preferred Kodachrome.

In any event, have fun at the beach and don't forget to scan and post your best shots!

[aperture64]

All I shoot is slide film and use them all sorts of beachs, but I would not use the Velvia. Too much contrast with the sand. I usually use E100GX or VS. If you go with Velvia, don't use a polarizer, as the blues are already strong enough. With the polarizer, they will come out overly blue and unnatural.

Velvia in Rincon, PR, where the sand is not white. No polarizer:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3318/3414755208_b415dce658.jpg

I don't take my M4 on the beach, but this was an exception because it was only one day and my birthday.

[chris00nj]

Excellent tips everyone. Maybe I am trying to make slide film more difficult than it should be. My plan is to shoot landscapes/seascapes in the early morning and late afternoon....

The first time I brought slide film on vacation, I was a bit nervous after reading about the miniscule exposure latitidue. If you read off the middle gray, your shots will turn out well. If you want to take some photos midday too, they will also turn out well. I had a few shots that were underexposed, but overall it turned out well.

If it's an awesome shot and you are nervous, just bracket it (+/- 2/3 of a stop). The extra cost of 2 slides isn't worth missing a great shot.

Kodachrome 64, midday, Nokton 50/1.5

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3181/2992645203_5f9b2da5a1.jpg

[Roger Hicks]

Never mind a middle grey; use an incident meter. For bracketing you might care to look at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps%20bracket.html

Cheers,

R.

[mackigator]

Unhelpful choice expanding comment:

Provia 400x is my go everywhere slide film of choice. Great stuff, no skin tone problems. If I had to carry only one slide film, this one wins, hands down.

And be careful taking any slide film into mixed light temperature scenes. You can be a hero one minute and a goat the next if you walk from sunlight to incandescent mixed light hoping to get acceptable color in the mixed scene. Of course, they all convert fine to BW in post if it comes down to it.

And I agree with the others: there is nothing to fear from slide film, except that it may make all your other color films seem inadequate by comparison. Shoot away.

[mich8261]

another vote for slide film. I went to Mexico back in April and slide is all I shot for colour (plus a roll of B&W Agfa Scala). I agree with the other poster who suggested not obsessing over "golden hour" light. I usually do, it makes me miserable when I miss it and then my pictures turn out alright anyway. An added benefit of slide film is that you can push it.

Here are a few shots from the trip. Shot on Astia and Velvia using the Voigtlander R3A meter reading. Here's a few more. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mich8261/sets/72157620601224358/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/3662660269_a6eed56463_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3646/3663463596_9a387461a6_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/3662662085_f9bd55ddc6_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3301/3663464844_5a47af82f0_o.jpg

[snausages]

Nice thing about backlighting with slides is that if something gets blown out it at least probably won't be your subject. And I tend to not mind flare.

Lux 50 + Velvia:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2116/2192042993_b7d9623bda.jpg

[bean_counter]

Never mind a middle grey; use an incident meter.

+1

My exposures improved dramatically when I started using an incident meter.

I still bracket often in harsh light, or when I'm not sure quite what I am going to get in an uneven lighting condition.

[cmdrzed]

Excellent pointers keep coming! I'm also digging the posted photos. I feel like the results from my slide shooting excursion will come out much better. Thanks everyone.

I especially like the comment about how slides will make other color films seem inadequate. The only color film that I have even used lately has been Ektar 100, which I find visually appealing.

[historicist]

I've never found slide film problematic at all, in my experience it isn't any harder than print film to use.

Thinking back to my first experiences, the only thing which takes a bit of getting used to is that the slide will much more accurately reflect the colour temperature than print film, as per

And be careful taking any slide film into mixed light temperature scenes. You can be a hero one minute and a goat the next if you walk from sunlight to incandescent mixed light hoping to get acceptable color in the mixed scene. Of course, they all convert fine to BW in post if it comes down to it.

Though personally I don't mind not having neutral colour under artificial lighting. I can definitely second Provia 400X as a fast film choice, it pushes really well too. Though hopefully the beach is too sunny to need it ;)

[alan davus]

Plenty of good advice at hand above. I love slide film and use it more than anything else under harsh Aussie skies. Until you learn how to use it especially on beaches and the like take the incident meter route as recommended. Velvia 50 and 100, Provia, Astia, try the lot. Have a great holiday.

[cmdrzed]

I agree Alan, good advice throughout this thread. I will look into an incident meter as I don't currently have one.

Thoughts on Sensia 100, 200, and 400? I currently have Ektachrome E100G, Provia 100F, and Provia 400x in my online shopping cart and wanted to get some last minute opinions on my selection of film.

[Windscale]

FE instead of M6! Take a toy insted of a workhorse to somewhere where one may only visit once in a lifetime!.....and regret afterwards that your slides could be better had you taken the workhorse!

Slides are great. I use a lot of 120 slides. I will second Provia 400. Velvia 50 is also very good (rated at 75). But most of my lenses are older German ones such as Solinar, Apotar, Color-Skopar, Tessar, Planar and Xenotar. And I'd never leave home without my little Sekonic 308 for its incident light readings.

[35mmdelux]

Im a Kodachrome and Ektachrome shooter and I rate my film 64/200 or 400 as rated on the box and do not compensate exposure. Shot that way for 30 yrs without a problem. I can see where the incident meter would be more accurate (pretty obvious).

Since were coming to the end of Kodachrome Id say shoot K64 until you drop. You can pick up Velvia on other vacations.

[cmdrzed]

35mmdelux, my wife has the same sentiment as you when it comes to Kodachrome. She told me to order more and shoot it exclusively. So many decisions. :)

[chris00nj]

35mmdelux, my wife has the same sentiment as you when it comes to Kodachrome. She told me to order more and shoot it exclusively. So many decisions. :)

You have a good wife!

In leiu of an incident meter, I brought a $10 gray card with me on vacation last week and I found it useful. Often, the spot meter on my Bessa was completely fooled by reflections or whatnot.

Sometimes, it was bright sunshine and I metered off a middle gray, but the meter was telling me two stops off sunny 16. I put the gray card up and it confirmed sunny 16. Other times, the meter indicated one stop off sunny 16 in heavy overcast. Again, the gray card came in handy.

Having some common sense and feeling for the amount of light came in handy too. In full sunshine I expected the meter to indicate 1/250 & f/8 with KR64. In late afternoon sunshine, I expected to lose a stop.

Using this linked chart is very helpful to get a basic feel of how the light should be. Basically, start with sunny 16 (EV 15) and count stops.

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm#Light%20Intensity%20Chart

[oldoc]

Raid doesn't seem too hesitant to shoot on the beach: I believe he lives in Pensacola. Not many places I wouldn't go with my M6 and cron 35/2.