View Full Version : Konica 50mm/2.0 or Pentax 43mm 1.9?
For similar cost, is one lens clearly better than the other lens?
I have once borrowed a Pentax Limited 43mm 1.9 LTM, and I found the lens very well built and also with great optics. I have never tried a Konica lens though.
KoNickon
06-19-2009, 11:14
Raid, they are both great lenses. I think I'd give the Hexanon an edge overall. A lot of folks on RFF hold it in very high regard, for good reason. But I love the Pentax and would be loath to part with it.
Well, the 43mm lens may be smaller in size than the 50mm lens. Both seem to be excellent. The 43mm lens may be more "rare" than the Hexanon, but I may be wrong here. The 43mm lens may have a more vintage rendering than the Hexanon? Am I right here?
WHile I dont have 43mm lens - I have seen several pics of it and read a few reports - it's not very small, and may as well be same size if not larger than Hexanon. Deffinately larger than 40mm rokkor and nokton, I believe. It is rare - limited production numbers. Again, from some reviews - I and pics I have seen - I would and did go with Hex. But thats personal preference and may be way different from others. ;)
I think the LTM 43 Limited is quite unique--read somewhere that it came about as a result of an Pentax engineer's personal project. On the K-Mount, the 43mm Limited seems to be much loved as well.
david.elliott
06-19-2009, 12:21
Hi Raid,
I pmed you my ramblings on the subject. :)
buzzardkid
06-19-2009, 12:35
Hi, having never seen any results from the Pentax, I doubt it could improve on the M-Hexanon, which is a killer lens. Still can be had for under USD 500, unbelievable build and optical quality, will last you a lifetime. Talk about value for money, this is it.
Anyone have any Pentax shots? Would love to see some here.
Hi Raid,
I pmed you my ramblings on the subject. :)
Hi David,
I know! Thanks a lot. Your words are helping me make up my mind.
david.elliott
06-19-2009, 12:37
Johan,
I should have some for you in a few weeks. I just purchased the pentax, which is what started this whole thing off :P
Optically, it is the same as the pentax mount version. So you could just check flickr. There are very few photos there from the L mount version.
Hi, having never seen any results from the Pentax, I doubt it could improve on the M-Hexanon, which is a killer lens. Still can be had for under USD 500, unbelievable build and optical quality, will last you a lifetime. Talk about value for money, this is it.
Anyone have any Pentax shots? Would love to see some here.
Hi Johan,
I once compared the Pentax 43mm to the Summicron-C 40mm, and both did extremely well in the matched lens comparisons.
The Hexanon is an M lens whereas the Pentax is a LTM lens with a 43/50 finder of first quality. The finder would be "for free".
mabelsound
06-19-2009, 12:40
The SLR version is absolutely marvelous, surpassed only in my experience by the Pentax-FA 31mm f/1.8, which would be a monster on a rangefinder! The SLR version of the 43 is very small, the RF larger, I assume because it was designed for a longer focal length [edit: DISTANCE TO FILM PLANE, DUH! That was a mental hiccup, sorry!]. I haven't used the LTM version but here are a few pics from the SLR one.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/3425406948_58f24eb38d_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/3425406522_5740edd9ef_o.jpg
(that's motion blur, not softness--it's very sharp)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3424597959_fbcc5861a1_o.jpg
david.elliott
06-19-2009, 12:45
mabelsound-
From what I read, the reason that the L mount version is larger has to do with the distance to the film plane.
The optical formulas of the lenses are the same. SLRs have a mirror box, and the L mount version of the lens had to be elongated to cover the same distance as the photo would travel if the lens were mounted on a SLR.
I hope that made sense. I dont think I phrased that too well.
buzzardkid
06-19-2009, 12:49
Love those shots Mabelsound, especially the last one.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm a profiling genius and I'd say it's mainly musical music on the cassette player, and a single female lives there, judging from the dog-toiletbrush holder and the shower curtain.
Well? Well? How close was I?
@David: Like to see those shots in a few weeks, wondering about contrast in color shots!
david.elliott
06-19-2009, 12:53
I typically adjust my tone curve in post, which affects contrast. I develop in diafine btw.
But I can provide you with some unedited scans (V500) of negatives if you want once I get the lens and have shot a roll with it. In the scanner I only lock exposure in vuescan and adjust my black and white points.
mabelsound
06-19-2009, 12:56
From what I read, the reason that the L mount version is larger has to do with the distance to the film plane.
DUH, yes, I know the difference! I was thinking distance to film plane and "focal length" popped out. You're right of course! I edited my post.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm a profiling genius and I'd say it's mainly musical music on the cassette player, and a single female lives there, judging from the dog-toiletbrush holder and the shower curtain.
Well? Well? How close was I?
Nope! It's the bathroom of my friends Pete and Mel's old place. He's a recording engineer and musician, and she is an artist. Great people. Those are his guitars in the other picture, which is of their guest room. I took a ton of pics in their house--there is something interesting everywhere you look. The portrait is of my pal Joel and his daughter, sitting in a bookstore.
buzzardkid
06-19-2009, 13:08
...Nope! It's the bathroom of my friends Pete and Mel's old place. He's a recording engineer and musician, and she is an artist. Great people. Those are his guitars in the other picture, which is of their guest room. I took a ton of pics in their house--there is something interesting everywhere you look. The portrait is of my pal Joel and his daughter, sitting in a bookstore.
Again missed it by a mile:D, but I still like the shot!
I've got the K-mount 43mm ltd, very nice little lens indeed!
Here are some shots (Pentax MX + 43mm f1.9):
1.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3281783595_a49b38a99c.jpg
2.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/3031569877_4e72456dce.jpg
3.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3447/3386163852_a53acc991b.jpg
mabelsound
06-19-2009, 13:55
The last one is marvelous.
I've got the K-mount 43mm ltd, very nice little lens indeed!
Here are some shots (Pentax MX + 43mm f1.9):
1.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3281783595_a49b38a99c.jpg
2.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/3031569877_4e72456dce.jpg
3.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3447/3386163852_a53acc991b.jpg
You have only nine posts so far, so you are "silent" as your name is.
These are beautiful photos.
Its funny, Raid, but you did ask about Pentax lens about 2 years ago here:
http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00MC6f
And you are still wondering about it? lol
and here is your old thread (there are some pics from it if anyone wanted to see how it performs):
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50884
But anyway, it'd be much easier to track down Hexanon than this Pentax.
And speaking of Hexanon - check out this guy's photos with it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gorbochev/tags/konicahexanon50mmf20/
Pretty awsome - I think!
buzzardkid
06-19-2009, 16:12
And speaking of Hexanon - check out this guy's photos with it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gorbochev/tags/konicahexanon50mmf20/
Pretty awsome - I think!
+1!
Great shots, I feel like whipping the M-Hex 50mmf20 out right away, but its the middle of night and pitch black here...
Tomorrow, for sure!
Its funny, Raid, but you did ask about Pentax lens about 2 years ago here:
http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00MC6f
And you are still wondering about it? lol
and here is your old thread (there are some pics from it if anyone wanted to see how it performs):
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50884
But anyway, it'd be much easier to track down Hexanon than this Pentax.
Both lenses are available in EX+ condition for about $600. It is a very difficult choice to make. You cannot go wrong either way, however. I am intrigued by the unusual [excellent] lens and/or camera,and this is what got me interested in the 43mm lens.
Here's one with the Hex. An Outstanding Lens.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3664/3633070980_7af375e7bc_o.jpg
mfunnell
06-19-2009, 18:30
Here's a favourite of mine with the M-Hex 50:
http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs21/f/2007/237/b/d/Rainy_Epping_1_by_mfunnell.jpg (http://mfunnell.deviantart.com/art/Rainy-Epping-1-63217500)
I love the Hex, but I've never used the Pentax so can't make any comments by way of comparison.
...Mike
The image is just great. I wonder how the same image would have looked like with a Pentax 43mm 1.9.
A RFF member expressed his opinion on the two lenses as follows:
I think he said something like: the bokeh of the Pentax lens is like wide paint brushes, while the bokeh of the Hexanon is like many smaller paint brushes.
In the end, I bought the 43mm 1.9 Pentax Limited and not the Hexanon.
I got the finder with the lens, and the lens is LTM.
These are two advantages over the Hexanon.
Having external finder is an advantage? Not for me! I hate those things. LTM - well I deal with that if i really like the lens, like, for instance - Nikkor 10.5cm/2.5., but I still hate dealing with ltm adapters, as most of my cameras have M-Mount - I prefer lenses with M-mount. So, those wouldnt be advantages for me, as they are for you.
Plus price-wise and image quality-wise - for me hexanon wins - no questions. The only thing about Pentax lens is - it's rarity. Not to say its a bad lens - it's not, but I do not believe its worth the trouble other than collector's item. In any case - hope you will enjoy yours and post some pics from it. Who knows - maybe it'll deliver wonders in your hands and I'll change my opinion of it? ;)
Having external finder is an advantage? Not for me! I hate those things. LTM - well I deal with that if i really like the lens, like, for instance - Nikkor 10.5cm/2.5., but I still hate dealing with ltm adapters, as most of my cameras have M-Mount - I prefer lenses with M-mount. So, those wouldnt be advantages for me, as they are for you.
Plus price-wise and image quality-wise - for me hexanon wins - no questions. The only thing about Pentax lens is - it's rarity. Not to say its a bad lens - it's not, but I do not believe its worth the trouble other than collector's item. In any case - hope you will enjoy yours and post some pics from it. Who knows - maybe it'll deliver wonders in your hands and I'll change my opinion of it? ;)
I should have said "advantage for me".
I don't have a decent 50mm finder, so getting a 43/50 with the lens allows me to use the finder with other lenses on certain cameras such as the Leica Standard. The finder played no role in my decision to choose the Pentax lens. It is like a bonus for me.
I have posted a thread on this lens two years ago. No miracle happened, but the images looked very good to my eyes. I have tried over 50 lenses sent to me by RFF members over the past 3-4 years, and I can tell when a lens is "extra good" as compared to other lenses. I have never tried a Hexanon, so I cannot make any statements on the Hexanon [which you clearly like].
david.elliott
06-21-2009, 12:24
Congrats on the purchase!
Congrats on the purchase!
Thank you, David. You gave me the idea.
I can already see this black 43mm lens on my black M6 or black Canon P.
I love the images that I got from this exact lens when Robert lent it to me two years ago.
This is one of the B&W photos from two years ago [may have been EFKE 25]:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/DanaPentax43mm19small.jpg
A crop from the same image:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/Pentax43mm19crop.jpg
david.elliott
06-21-2009, 12:48
Raid,
Lovely photo! You have beautiful daughters.
My silver 43 will going on my bessa r. Should be pretty sexy.
Once our lenses arrive, we should post some photos of them on our cameras!
-David
David,
Yes, we should do this.
Thanks.
I toyed with the idea of getting the chrome lens after you mentioned both available auctions to me a few days ago, and I am glad that things worked out the way they did in the end.
Here is one color image from that same session. I may have used Fujicolor 400 [or Walgreens 400]:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/pentax43mmcolor.jpg
A crop:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/pentax43mmcolorcrop.jpg
This lens is not as sharp as the Hexanon [or similar sharp lenses], but it gives you a lovely rendition.
david.elliott
06-21-2009, 13:38
Lovely rendition for sure. And she really pops out of the photo. Looks very 3d to my eyes.
Raid, the only Hexanon I own is the 21/35 Dual. It is a superb lens. If this lens is any indication, I feel the Hex 50/2 would be superb as well.
I tried to use the fastest shutter speed to get the background somehow OOF. The Summicron-C also gave a similar 3D effect.
Raid, the only Hexanon I own is the 21/35 Dual. It is a superb lens. If this lens is any indication, I feel the Hex 50/2 would be superb as well.
Hi Keith,
Is the 21/35 a RF lens or is it for the SLR? Sounds like an awesome focal length combo in one. It seems that the 43mm Pentax and the Konia 50/2 are not that widely talked about.
david.elliott
06-21-2009, 15:05
It is a RF lens. One of the sellers I pmed you about earlier has one up for auction.
I have never heard of such a lens before today. Is it in the $800-$1200 range or even more costly than that?
It would make a good travel lens. Use the 35mm as a normal lens and then switch tothe 21mm for wide angle shots.
Food for thought ...
david.elliott
06-21-2009, 15:09
It is listed at $1999.
f/3.4 - 4.
It is listed at $1999.
f/3.4 - 4.
This would be out of my league. What are the max apertures?
Is it the same max aperture for such lenses?
Leica has the Tri-Elmar or something. One lens for all cases. Could be boring after a while.
david.elliott
06-21-2009, 15:16
f/3.4 is the max aperture at 21mm. f/4 is the max aperture at 35mm.
So, pretty slow :)
f/3.4 is the max aperture at 21mm. f/4 is the max aperture at 35mm.
So, pretty slow :)
I would not mind a less expensive "CV like" 21-50-90 travel lens, with the 50mm lens being the only fast lens @ 2.0.
buzzardkid
06-21-2009, 15:36
congrats on the buy Raid! I love the B&W shot! And the crop even more, actually!
I'll shoot the Hexanon 50mm f2.0 on Fomapan 200 tomorrow and might upload a shot on RFF once developed, so you can have some comparison.
I'm sure you'll enjoy the Pentax, it looks great! Love to see more shots from it!
david.elliott
06-28-2009, 03:04
Love those shots Mabelsound, especially the last one.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm a profiling genius and I'd say it's mainly musical music on the cassette player, and a single female lives there, judging from the dog-toiletbrush holder and the shower curtain.
Well? Well? How close was I?
@David: Like to see those shots in a few weeks, wondering about contrast in color shots!
Just following up, as promised! Black and white photos only this time. I'm waiting on some slide film before I do color. It should arrive from freestyle at some point this week.
The lens arrived. Shipping was incredibly fast. Matsuiya store is the best - highly recommended!
The lens looks to be in awesome condition. The only fault I see is some very minor dust inside - wont have any effect on image quality. It is barely visible even with my powerful flashlight. There is some slight wear on the lens cap, about two millimeters worth, but that doesnt bother me at all.
Initial impressions - build quality is fantastic and the viewfinder is great! I can see the framelines and a bit more with ease, even with my glasses.
Note - in a few weeks, I hope to post a full lens review complete with color and black and white photos, as well as photos of the lens (and viewfinder) itself.
-----
Here are a few photos from my test roll with the lens.
http://strongmace.com/Photography/Pentax43LMountTestRoll/index.html
This was my first time using legacy pro 100. I developed it in diafine at EI 200.
I have to say, on the whole, I am not too pleased with the results, as to the -film- alone. Much of the roll was overexposed, so I may just shoot a test roll at various ISOs to see where the sweet spot is when developing with diafine. As it stands now though, I greatly prefer arista premium 400 (just cant shoot it wide open in daylight). I think I may just shoot the Legacy Pro 100 at either 400 or 640, which I think would lead to better exposures.
Good thing I did some bracketing, no? :)
Setting the film issues aside though, I am REALLY happy with the lens. I love the look of the bokeh. The lens is quite sharp, at least for me, wide open. I have no complaints about sharpeness at f/1.9 - or at any other aperture for that matter. Note - photos above were not sharpened other than standard lightroom output sharpening. No sharpening in the actual development tab. No sharpening in vuescan either.
The handles beautifully. I didnt even bother with the focusing tab though. I just used the ridged ring instead. Focus is very smooth. Aperture click stops take a bit more effort than on my two CV lenses, but it is still very snappy and easy.
I'm quite pleased with the few photos in that link above.
----
Just a few notes about the shooting conditions in the above link. As raid noted, when I pmed him the link, the lighting was really challenging.
I went out around 5:30pm that day, so the sun was still up pretty high.
I was trying to make the lens flare in the tree/sun shots. It did in fact flare without the hood, but not with the hood. The flares (hood not extended) only resulted when I had the sun at the edge of the frame, not in the center. With the hood extended, I couldn't get the lens to flare at all.
I had fun working with the challenging lighting. It was awfully bright and contrasty out. Tried to push the lens really hard, and the results were great imo.
The two bokeh photos were set to minimum focus distance, wide open, just to get an idea of how it looks in general. The first one is of a house with a few trees, with the house about 200 feet from me I would think. The second one is just of trees.
I think thats just about everything I wanted to say for now. Hope I didnt forget anything.
If anybody has questions, feel free to ask. :D
Here is the photo link again, in case you missed it above: http://strongmace.com/Photography/Pentax43LMountTestRoll/index.html
mabelsound
06-28-2009, 03:11
FYI, raid, I think that second photo, the color one, is one of your best pictures ever. I think you tend to favor more lively/adorable pictures of your kids, but that one is contemplative, and really evokes a different mood. It's the kind of picture that, someday, when your daughter is grown and married, will be her husband's favorite childhood image of her, if that isn't too weird a thing to say. It's like you can see the adult in her, waiting to emerge.
Anyway, nice work, and I agree, sharpness is fine with this lens, but it's really all about the rendering.
FYI, raid, I think that second photo, the color one, is one of your best pictures ever. I think you tend to favor more lively/adorable pictures of your kids, but that one is contemplative, and really evokes a different mood. It's the kind of picture that, someday, when your daughter is grown and married, will be her husband's favorite childhood image of her, if that isn't too weird a thing to say. It's like you can see the adult in her, waiting to emerge.
Anyway, nice work, and I agree, sharpness is fine with this lens, but it's really all about the rendering.
I think I know what you mean. I also looked into Dana's eyes and I saw a "person" emerging. The eyes always tell the story, as you know.
I bought the 43mm lens for its way of rendering and not for its sharpness of lack of it.
Thanks for the kind words.
Just following up, as promised! Black and white photos only this time. I'm waiting on some slide film before I do color. It should arrive from freestyle at some point this week.
The lens arrived. Shipping was incredibly fast. Matsuiya store is the best - highly recommended!
The lens looks to be in awesome condition. The only fault I see is some very minor dust inside - wont have any effect on image quality. It is barely visible even with my powerful flashlight. There is some slight wear on the lens cap, about two millimeters worth, but that doesnt bother me at all.
Hello David,
As we have discussed via pm, you picked challenging light situations for your first usage of the lens.
I also got lucky with my buy. The 43mm lens looks like new, and the 43/50 finder is excellent too.
I got the lens in Black while you chose chrome/silver finish. I think that both look great.
I played with the lens a little by mounting it on a black M6 via a LTM adapter. The crazy thing is that the frame in the M6 finder [with that LTM adapter] seems to be exactly the 43mm lines in the Pentax finder. I kept on making sure that I was not confusing the 43mm lines with the 50mm lines in the finder.
In the end, I conclude that I don't need the finder when using the M6 with the lens. I will stilluse the finder with one roll offilm just to be sure of things.
I have to thank you for encouraging me to get such a lens.
They're both good, the 43 LTM is large (as large or larger than the Hex 50), but looks sharper than the M-Hex 50 to me (I've owned a few of the 50s) and has less CA.
Hard to compare though, they're different fl's.
david.elliott
06-28-2009, 14:03
Hello David,
As we have discussed via pm, you picked challenging light situations for your first usage of the lens.
I also got lucky with my buy. The 43mm lens looks like new, and the 43/50 finder is excellent too.
I got the lens in Black while you chose chrome/silver finish. I think that both look great.
I played with the lens a little by mounting it on a black M6 via a LTM adapter. The crazy thing is that the frame in the M6 finder [with that LTM adapter] seems to be exactly the 43mm lines in the Pentax finder. I kept on making sure that I was not confusing the 43mm lines with the 50mm lines in the finder.
In the end, I conclude that I don't need the finder when using the M6 with the lens. I will stilluse the finder with one roll offilm just to be sure of things.
I have to thank you for encouraging me to get such a lens.
My pleasure. :)
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