View Full Version : E Pee One, A Poll, are You In or Out?
Ok, we have debated the little guy for a couple weeks now. As with anything, some people like it, some don't, nobody is wrong. What do you think, are you in our not? Not asking for the same discussions all over again, just yes or no and simple why if you would like.
Me, I am a definite maybe. I was a definite no just a couple weeks ago, so I am warming to the idea. Not perfect, but I don't know how much will be improved in the near future. I am over the lack of viewfinder, I think the low Res LCD is a silly stumped toe for Oly. I am hopeful that the AF is better than the initial hands on reports state. I want to see some hands on real reviews to make a final decision.
How about you?
I'll be in once the price drops :)
Tuolumne
06-18-2009, 06:06
Poor autofocus, poor LCD - I am out. Besides, once you have a G1 (i do), what do you need this for?
/T
digitalintrigue
06-18-2009, 06:07
It's too early to judge the LCD or the focus. I hope to test one with various lenses tomorrow and will get a much better idea on these and other points.
BillBingham2
06-18-2009, 06:07
Where's the Primes!
B2 (;->
I heard the autofocus was good, is it not? I'll have to change my vote if it's poor.
back alley
06-18-2009, 06:19
for the money i would rather buy the panasonic 7-14 lens.
this oly with lens ( & finder) wont be all that pocketable really.
and i have actually been using a g1 and love it.
It's too early to judge the LCD or the focus. I hope to test one with various lenses tomorrow and will get a much better idea on these and other points.
if you do please share your impressions.
Pickett Wilson
06-18-2009, 06:26
The DPreview article says its AF system is more in line with P&S performance and not as good as the G1.
dazedgonebye
06-18-2009, 06:30
The DPreview article says its AF system is more in line with P&S performance and not as good as the G1.
Let's hope not. That might just kill it deader than dead.
I want to put it in my pants like that guy in Spinal Tap.
mfunnell
06-18-2009, 06:35
I'm in the "maybe" camp. The lack of an integrated optical viewfinder is the main reason for hesitation (aside from lack of available funds, which a whole 'nother thing). The lack of an EVF means little to me as I hate the things (and, yes, I've looked through the EVF of a Panasonic G1, which in the things that matter to me is little better than other EVFs I've used). The 17/2.8 (or, perhaps, the promised Panasonic 20/1.7) with external finder might work for me. But it is too much money for "might". While it may be a personal thing, an optical viewfinder is a must for me, and I might be better off with the smallest of the Oly SLRs and their 25/2.8 pancake lens. (Though that has its unattractive features as well.)
I think I might sit this round out, and just keep using my film cameras (what a concept!) in the role I see the EP-1 filling.
...Mike
f16sunshine
06-18-2009, 06:37
No chance!
The only reason for me to get one of the M4/3 cams is to use L/M lenses with a EVF. To be able to focus off the sensor with the camera to my eye. The lack of a finder has lost me. If the Samsung NX has too long a flange distance for RF lenses, I'll take a Pany and make it a portrait cam. Otherwise it's the NX with it's 50% larger sensor and all the things those larger pixels bring to the table.
Tuolumne
06-18-2009, 06:41
Because it is smaller, and has image stabilization. As for the AF and LCD, seems unlikely they would be worse than the G1 -- what make you believe it is so "poor?"
I would like to have a EVF, but I am willing to do without for now. You can't spend your life waiting for the perfect camera. And I wish is was black, but apparently it is not.
It will have a decent resale for awhile, so I do not see it as a big deal to get one now. The body will probably cost me $300 for the year or so I own it.
The G1 has a great LCD and great auto-focus. I'm just echoing everything I've read about the Olympus: Poor LCD and poor AF. Could be everything I've read is wrong, but this poll is here now, so I'm answering it now. The only major advantage I see for the Olympus is in-camera IS. That is very nice, but not nice enough that I can't wait for another iteration or two to get the right product. Or not, in which case I'll just keep using my G1. And as far as size goes, if I can't drop it into my shirt pocket (sport shirt pocket) the size is irrelevant. It's not a "pocketable" camera for me.
/T
Tuolumne
06-18-2009, 06:43
for the money i would rather buy the panasonic 7-14 lens.
this oly with lens wont be all that pocketable really.
and i have actually been using a g1 and love it.
This was my thinking, too. Enough with churning camera bodies. I'm putting my money into lenses that actually take the picture.
/T
Al Patterson
06-18-2009, 06:55
I'm also in the "maybe" camp. I'd like to see what Panasonic does with this type of concept, or see what Olympus does for their next version.
I'm also looking for a black version, but I do like the looks of the silver/black version of this one.
A digital (gadget) "camera" in a fency Pen F dress...
dazedgonebye
06-18-2009, 06:59
No chance!
The only reason for me to get one of the M4/3 cams is to use L/M lenses with a EVF. To be able to focus off the sensor with the camera to my eye. The lack of a finder has lost me. If the Samsung NX has too long a flange distance for RF lenses, I'll take a Pany and make it a portrait cam. Otherwise it's the NX with it's 50% larger sensor and all the things those larger pixels bring to the table.
I too will be waiting for the NX...not so much because the E-P1 or G1 is a fail, but more because I'm not ready for this camera at this time. (I want a mamiya 7 next)
By the time I'm ready, all good options should be on the table and I can decide.
It's all very encouraging though.
Joe Leung
06-18-2009, 07:00
A firm NO without a EVF. But I must say I like the design of the body very much. I am sure Olympus can surely put a removable EVF like the one on the Ricoh GX200. Until then, I'll keep on carrying with my R-D1 around.
I have one on preorder from Amazon (with the 17mm), as an upgrade from a DP2 (lovely sensor but poor high-ISO and sloooow). I don't really care about the interchangeable lens that much, what I really want is a digital Contax T3, not a digital CL. I am happy with the DP2 LCD so the E-P1 should not be an issue, and it isn't realistic to expect an OVF in an interchangeable lens camera.
My main concern is that the 17mm pancake may have too many optical compromises (hopefully the chromatic aberration can be corrected in DxO or ACR). Then again, I can switch to the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 whenever it leaves vaporware status, or use my VC 35mm f/2.5 Skopar PII (I have already ordered the mount adapter from Stephen Gandy).
The G1/GH1 were not an option - too bulky to fit in a jacket pocket. The E-P1 with 17mm shouldn't be much larger than the DP2.
Where is the "maybe, it comes up a hair short on my list"
on my list for a small camera like this I dont care about a viewfinder but.....no flash??? The screen is also a little let down but not a deal breaker but with no flash and if the AF is really that bad then no, I cant put up with the slow autofocus on my GRD and always have it in snap mode, the panasonic g1 was fine here but this has to be as good as or I may pass it up.
I'm hesitant to buy a 1.0 version of a camera like this one, especially at the price point. While people are listing what the camera is missing, I think of negative features that haven't yet been discovered :)
I haven't seen enough sample images to make up my mind about the quality, but my first impression is 'typical digital'.
ruby.monkey
06-18-2009, 07:12
I'm shallow. I hate the way the top-plate looks like an afterthought. There should be an option for 'I liked the concept camera but not the production model'.
<--- 'E pee one ........ ahh beer.......
I'm waiting for the new lenses. If it becomes available in a black body, maybe. I'm very pleased with the Panasonic G1. I am, as well, waiting on the Vario G 7-14 release.
Haven't seen this posted yet - internal shots of the camera and 17mm lens:
http://photorumors.com/2009/06/17/the-guts-of-the-m43-olympus-e-p1/
http://photorumors.com/2009/06/17/is-the-olympus-zuiko-17mm-f28-pancake-lens-all-plastic/
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/olumpus-e-p1-guts-2.jpg
I'm going to give it a go. I was thinking of an M8 to go with my MP, but do like the extra versatility of the EP1. I would get the twin lens kit, 14-42mm and 17mm pancake. I have faith in the Olympus and Panasonic lenses and already use 4/3 lenses interchangeably with Leica M lenses on a G1 so I'm comfy with the overall idea of using EP1 as a mock rangefinder, and also very happy with its image quality if only as good as the G1; but it promises to be better.
Alongside the 17mm (35mm equiv) viewfinder that comes in the bundle I'll use my 50mm finder for my Olympus 25mm pancake lens, my 28mm finder for the wide 14mm end of the kit zoom, and get a 90mm finder for the long end. In other words a typical Leica rangefinder range of lenses and which would mirror my main Leica lenses at the moment. And then there are all the other lenses that can be fitted with an adapter...
Steve
I'll get a DP2 instead because the sensor and high iso shots really impress me. Then next year I'll get a Samsung and a Leica full-frame DRF.
shadowfox
06-18-2009, 08:28
So few dare to admit that they are Oly fanboys/fangirls :)
I am one. Olympus does make sucky cameras and marketing decisions but not designs.
And I admire their guts to be different and consistently surprising people with their designs.
As for the E-P1, I already have its SLR twin, the E-620.
bean_counter
06-18-2009, 08:33
I was hoping that this would be my first foray into digital, especially with all of the 4/3 adapters for old glass.
But without a VF, it's a definite NO. And for the $$, it SHOULD have an EVF.
I decided to go for it (http://lensist.blogspot.com/2009/06/closer-look-at-e-p1.html). By 'it' I mean the zoom lens kit (waiting for 20/1.7 later). I have some reservations (LCD, AF speed) but the promise of a decent sensor in a camera that small is worth a shot... especially for travel / carry-everywhere.
I'm glad it has no EVF, as my opinion of them is that they are dreadful. I'm happy to have the OVF sat on top. Each to our own though I guess.
I just wish they'd make an all black one. I wont buy one straight away, but I am very tempted. If it has no lag, and the AF is good enough, I'll go for it.
JonasYip
06-18-2009, 09:21
I voted "My Dreams Have Come True", but only because the other poll options did not fit. I just mean that I was intrigued by the original concept model, like what they've done with the final product, and will most likely get one.
Key for me (in terms of the lack of viewfinder etc) is that I don't see it as replacing my "real" cameras (RD1, D3, etc) but rather replacing the P&S. I don't think I'd choose it as my main camera certainly.
But who knows? If it turns out I can work comfortably with my M-lenses maybe it will slowly take over...
j
George S.
06-18-2009, 09:22
Too many uncertanties right now.
How bad is the AF?
How bad is the LCD screen?
What other lenses are in the pipeline?
What will the follow-on bodies look like/perform like/ what added features?
We need another answer choice in the poll-
Not right now, but depending on what comes down the road later, it's a Maybe.
I will wait for the price to come down. Yes, I want one.
photogdave
06-18-2009, 09:43
I voted maybe but it's closer to no.
My Leicas have everything I need: great viewfinder, full frame, sharp and fast lenses in the focal lengths I want, great IQ with all the great films available.
The day I can't have a working film scanner I will consider something like the Olympus.
EDIT: I had such a horrible experience getting my LC1 repaired that it really turned be off plasticky electronic-based cameras, digital or not.
Ronald_H
06-18-2009, 09:52
Dream come true. AF performance was seen with version v0.9 of the firmware. Even then, I can pre-focus and use hyperfocal distance tricks.
I hoped the screen would be as good as the G1, but that is maybe asking a bit much.
It's not perfect, but dSLR quality in a camera this small and well thought out? I'm in.
I'm shallow. I hate the way the top-plate looks like an afterthought. There should be an option for 'I liked the concept camera but not the production model'.
The top plate is the retro look of the Pen F... and a nice thought in reflecting on Oly's heritage. Very nicely done if you ask me. And "afterthinking" that comment... extremely well thought out.
FrozenInTime
06-18-2009, 10:27
It's replacing a GRD-II which proved to me that the combination of a rear LCD and OVF worked well. I probably used the LCD and the OVF equally.
I like the GRD-II's compact size, but hated the powered lens extension ( so DP-2 etc. also ruled out ) and limited high ISO performance.
Having sold the GRD-II last month - I'd sort of decided to give the E-P1 a go before it launched.
I have no doubt that the 17mm pancake is going to be a bit of a compromise in some situations, but as a jacket pocket sized high ISO camera, it will be good enough.
Just in case, I've also got my fingers crossed in hope that my Zeiss ZM18 will perform really well, as I want to be able to use manual/preset focus.
ruby.monkey
06-18-2009, 10:32
The top plate is the retro look of the Pen F... and a nice thought in reflecting on Oly's heritage. Very nicely done if you ask me. And "afterthinking" that comment... extremely well thought out.
I know. The trouble is that it doesn't integrate at all well with the rest of the body - that's why I say it looks like an afterthought, as though it was stuck on at the last minute in an attempt to grab a little Pen cred. Keeping the Pen F-like front profile but making it deep enough front-to-back to follow the lines of the body would have made for a much more cohesive and elegant design.
Silva Lining
06-18-2009, 10:46
Its not perfect
But I have one on order and will have a lot of fun with it....can't wait :)
What I would really like is AF for the Epson R-D1s. Barring EXACTLY that, I would consider something that comes very, very close to that in size, function, IQ, etc... So, for my need, the jury is still out.
DougFord
06-18-2009, 11:18
I’m out.
Form factor alone won’t get me to buy into the whole digital camera thing.
OK who’s next? Samsung is in the batter’s box with the NX.
Larger sensors with morphing form factors, each company fishing for the right mix of features and performance.
Samsung’s up next with perhaps Panasonics’ version of their m4/3 RF to follow.
If nothing else, it’s an interesting time as these new designs are paraded out before us, one after another.
I was looking for another answer option Yes before release but No now.
My reason is the feature set is a compromise to keep it small but once you dd the flash you're larger than the G1. I want a G1 without the "hump". I already have one and enjoy immensly.
Jamie Pillers
06-18-2009, 12:13
Not this one. But they're getting closer. If this one had a flippable LCD screen (or NO LCD screen) and a viewfinder I would be a "Yes... I WANT IT!" I really like the fact that it has in-camera anti-shake feature. This means that even with a f2.8 lens, you can hand-hold down to much slower speeds and avoid the need for faster lenses.
I always feel like I want to support efforts like this (micro 4/3, unique innovative design, etc.). I love my little Pen F, and I think Olympus is a great company, especially for recognizing the value inherit in the Pen design. However, The price is a little high, and even though the the lack of an EVF is a disheartening deal-breaker, I voted maybe. Because, I would get the EP1 before I would get a DP2 or some other high-end fixed-focal length dP&S.
/
amateriat
06-18-2009, 12:59
No shoes, no shirt, no finder, no sale.
- Barrett
reala_fan
06-18-2009, 14:10
No shoes, no shirt, no finder, no sale.
- Barrett
Perfecty said, Barret - I'm with you, 100%
I will wait for the price to come down. Yes, I want one.
If so, remember to call me when you sell.
digitalintrigue
06-18-2009, 14:34
What's interesting is the E-P1 with 17mm and viewfinder is $899, the 17mm by itself is $299 and the viewfinder is $99; body only is $749.
I suspect we will be buying a lot of the body and 17, and unbundling. ;) This will be nice for G1 owners who just want the 17 and for those who want to use the E-P1 just with legacy lenses.
davies24
06-18-2009, 14:34
This has me tempted. Appears it might be a good replacement for my current GX100.
Main problem for me being the dodgy auto focus. Ok so I could resort to manual focus but with the low resolution lcd screen manual focusing would prove painful and I'm not very good at guessing distances (do the micro 4/3rds lenses even have distance scales?)
Three bug bears with my GX100 are 1) slow autofocus, 2) slow RAW write speed and 3) poor high ISO performance so maybe the E P1 can improve on two out of three points for me.
As a G1 owner, the 17's a definite but the E-P1's a definite maybe. Depends on how much better TruPic V is for high ISO work than the G1's processing. If I can get a stop more out of an E-P1 I might grab it for low-light work only, but the G1 with it's EVF and flip/twist LCD will remain my main body.
back alley
06-18-2009, 16:02
i'll wait for the panasonic 20/1.7.
these days that 40 fov is the one i am likin'.
Gary Sandhu
06-18-2009, 21:27
I ended up finally buying the olympus e-420 with pancake lens after seeing the e-p1. Oh well; I might get it for the video mode.
dacaccia
06-18-2009, 23:00
I recently bought a DP2, and I think its Foveon tops those m43 sensors easily. The Oly looks nice, but if a Retro Design I would expect a "retro" inside, that means, only the essential features (like M8). Instead, they put in motive programmes, "art" (just make your picture in the camera instead outside in PS), filming - but no viewfinder. Ridiculous in my eyes.
dovevadar
06-18-2009, 23:23
no built-in view finder? no way!
This being a rangefinder forum, I will give my point of view based on the E-P1's abiity as a rangefinder compared to DP2 and M8.
Size which obviously is one of the big advantage of rangefinders ...., it falls in between the DP2 and the M8. I can just put the DP2 in my suit pocket with view finder on (Jeans pockets is a no go). Therefore, be it the the E-P1 or M8 you either need a strap or bag to carry them (remember that in Europe we don't wear baggy clothes :) ). If you own a M8, than the compact complementary camera in terms of size is the DP2.
Manual focus .... (I hardly ever use AF). Very important point as the DP2 can be focused without looking at the LCD by estimating distance and using the jog dial. This is a huge advantage over the E-P1 where apparently it will have to be done by looking at the screen. Aperture is also modified very easily on the DP2 and can be done without looking at LCD.
Lenses ... The E-P1 currently offers a 17mm 1.8 on 2x crop factor sensor vs the 24mm 2.8 of the DP2 on a 1.7x crop factor. Selective focus and OOF ability is bigger on the DP2. Of course the E-P1 has interchangeable lenses, but then, better go with the M8 has point #1 shows you need a strap or bag anyway.
The E-P1 has IMO a great look and probably give great IQ in a small body but it is not a compact digital rangefinder. The DP2 gets closer to that even if it cannot substitute a M8 or R-D1. The E-P1 is a more versatile camera, yet it is a compact DSLR even if it has the looks of a rangefinder.
So in the end, I might buy the beige E-P1 for my girlfriend ;)
What I would really like is AF for the Epson R-D1s.
i.e. a digital Contax G2...
This being a rangefinder forum, I will give my point of view based on the E-P1's abiity as a rangefinder compared to DP2 and M8.
Size which obviously is one of the big advantage of rangefinders ...., it falls in between the DP2 and the M8.
Much closer to the DP2 than to the M8, though, at least if you use the 17mm pancake. The M8 and R-D1 are coat-pocketable if you use a pancake lens like the 40mm f/1.4 Nokton, 35mm f/2.5 Skopar or Summarit.
The optimum in size were really the Contax T (which had a real rangefinder, albeit not one with a sharp-edged RF patch for vernier focusing) and the Olympus XA.
I can just put the DP2 in my suit pocket with view finder on (Jeans pockets is a no go).
I can't fit any camera in my jean pockets. Perhaps that says something about my girth...
Manual focus .... (I hardly ever use AF). Very important point as the DP2 can be focused without looking at the LCD by estimating distance and using the jog dial.
I can't emphasize enough how much better the focus wheel is on the DP2 than on the DP1. Combined with the MF assist magnification feature, it makes MF very usable (and quite possibly preferable to the DP2's lackluster AF in many circumstances).
The E-P1 has IMO a great look and probably give great IQ in a small body but it is not a compact digital rangefinder. The DP2 gets closer to that even if it cannot substitute a M8 or R-D1.
Well, I use the DP1/DP2 far more often than the M8 (the R-D1 is relegated to car glove box duty).
Depends: want to see some reviews of production models used with MF lenses before I decide.
Now that my initial excitement died down a little, I think I'll wait. Honestly, the DPReview samples had me underwhelmed, but that is usually the case with these technical reviewers' samples. What I'll do is wait until I see some proper photos taken by you lads or the guys on Flickr.
If it really did have slow AF, it would be a deal breaker for me as I already have a DP1. The screen resolution has me a little worried, but if the Oly 17mm VF is good, I think I'll be fine.
MReidPhotography
06-19-2009, 04:27
I think the reason why we wont see VF on cameras like these as they come out is because they still want to market to the p&s crowd while still managing to have interchangeable lenses. The idea is there, i love the camera, i just have to actually hold it and shoot a few shots with it before i can drop 900 bux on something like that. But as more and more companies come out with similar products i don't think we will be seeing VF on them, however i do admit they should have done a better job on the LCD screen since they did decide to forego the VF. If AF is even decent and IQ is Excellent at low speeds while good at higher speeds then I think I will eventually drop the money for it, if i can scrounge it up; time to open up my male escort business again, it's the one thing that seems to do well in this economy!
I think the reason why we wont see VF on cameras like these as they come out is because they still want to market to the p&s crowd while still managing to have interchangeable lenses..
Which in the end means it's neither fish nor fowl.. It's not for the P&S crowd, because it's got no zoom, and it's not for the RF crowd cause it's got no VF..
Audii-Dudii
06-19-2009, 05:31
Not that I'm made of money or anything, but $1,000 isn't that much money in the grand scheme of things, so I've pre-ordered one with the 17mm lens and also the accessory OVF. My only significant concern is the low resolution of the LCD ... for my purposes I have no problem with composing and focusing on an LCD (no doubt a product of my view camera background and despite the fact i live in Arizona, where it's nicely sunny much of the time), but the G1's LCD is the first one I've considered acceptable and the E-P1's LCD has only half of its resolution, which isn't promising. (The LCDs on the DP-1 and DP-2 sucked badly enough that I think they actually affected the quality of my photos by limiting what I was able to see through them. I do miss the Foveon's once-in-a-while "magic" with images, though.)
I do like the E-P1's form factor, though, and it will make a better everyday carry camera for me than the G1. In a perfect world, though, I'd prefer to have an updated Digilux 2 over either of them, but that's not on offer at the moment, so one has to choose among what is rather than what we'd like there to be.
crawdiddy
06-19-2009, 07:18
No way. I will save my money and buy a nice classic Pen F Gothic. And maybe get digitalintrigue to paint it black.
tom.w.bn
06-19-2009, 08:57
Which in the end means it's neither fish nor fowl.. It's not for the P&S crowd, because it's got no zoom, and it's not for the RF crowd cause it's got no VF..
No zoom? There is the 14-42 kit lens for example.
Al Kaplan
06-19-2009, 09:21
Audii-Dudii, you bring up an interesting point re view camera experience. It shouldn't be all that difficult to incorporate "View Camera Mode" and put an upside down reversed left-to-right image on the LCD screen. Many photographers used to claim that it was much easier to concentrate on the composition rather than the subject that way.
Another possibility would be a 45 degree mirror attachment for the LCD for using the camera at very low angles, or up overhead at arms' length like you can with a TLR or Hasselblad.
digitalintrigue
06-19-2009, 10:03
I just checked out the E-P1, here are my initial observations, bear in mind I only had a few minutes with the camera, it really takes a lot more time to carefully evaluate details.
1. LCD performs well in bright light, of course others may disagree, but I believe it is more than up to the task. Can you shoot with the sun directly shining over your shoulder into the LCD? No, but that is a rather rare occurrence, it's fairly easy to shift the angle of view and recompose, indirect bright light is not a problem. I didn't see any issues using the lower res display.
2. Autofocus on the kit zoom has more vibration than the Pansonic kit lens, but seems to be about the same speed, certainly fast enough for me.
3. The rep did not have the 17mm or the viewfinder, he did have the flash and the 4/3 adapter (but not the OM adapter.)
4. Manual focus works very similarly to the G1 -- press the info button, then ok, then use the thumbwheel to use 7x or 10x magnification
5. I tried putting a Pen F lens on the camera but the RJ (Jinfinance) adapter does not mount. I will try the Hawk adapter and some M adapters next.
6. I like the menu interface, it appears to have two sets of them, one more akin to point and shoots and one more like the Oly DSLRs, so whichever way the user is coming from, the camera can accommodate.
7. The Panasonic kit lens worked fine on the Oly, the Oly kit lens worked fine on the Panasonic.
8. I really like in body image stabilization!
9. The E-P1 is actually smaller than the original Pen (in this case a Pen FV.)
10. I like the stainless steel.
11. The control dial is pretty slick, it can rotate (ipod-ish) or can be operated with top/bottom/left/right button press.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/3641124497_f9a0c9d711_b.jpg
digitalintrigue
06-19-2009, 10:05
More photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rjagitsch/sets/72157619962945962/
i think this can correctly be categorized as a positive report!!!
So few dare to admit that they are Oly fanboys/fangirls :)
Olympus Fanboy ... that is a totally foreign concept to me ... please explain.
OK, I am waiting on this. Not because I don't think it's a capable camera for the type of photos I do/will make. I would love to have the 17/2.8, but want to see what firmware updates do for its CA performance -- even though I would be doing b&w 90% of the time, so who cares, I guess. It does seem plenty sharp enough wide open, and while f1.7 or f1.4 would be far more desirable for me, it is not a deal breaker.
But the biggest reason I will wait is to see whether I can live without fast wides/super wide primes on a camera like this. I am so used to having the 28/2.8 and 21/2 on my OMs, and I seriously doubt there will be a m4/3 10/2 or 14/2 prime produced ... that I can afford. Yes, I could use adapted fast wides, but there goes the size factor, along with the prices.
Whenever I get an M4-2/P, I will start with my year of Leica. Since I suspect I'll go with a 40mm, I'll have a whole year to see whether the E-P1 (or successor) with 17/2.8 (or similar) could be a digital equivalent for me. If getting through the year of Leica means serious wide withdrawal, I'll have to re-think the E-P1. The kit zoom could be the solution, but there goes the compact RF/replacement factor. By then Mr. Watanabi may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat.
This has me tempted. Appears it might be a good replacement for my current GX100.
Main problem for me being the dodgy auto focus. Ok so I could resort to manual focus but with the low resolution lcd screen manual focusing would prove painful
There is manual focus assist which neatly magnifies the focus area and gives very precise and quick mf capability.
This being a rangefinder forum ...
So in the end, I might buy the beige E-P1 for my girlfriend ;)
Well, I certainly hope you will use it a lot. I want to see your photos with it. I'm certain they would be superbe, mon gar.
I love the EP-1 in many ways. Styling is wonderfully close to what I have wanted for quite some time. I really like the pancake lenses that are offered.
It's getting closer to a 35SP-D or even OM-D,eh? ;)
Many photographers used to claim that it was much easier to concentrate on the composition rather than the subject that way.
I have never been able to put it so precisely, but yes ... I still claim that. I find my view camera compositions to be quite different than anything from a "right side up" viewfinder camera. Thanks for putting into words what I have often felt.
xayraa33
06-19-2009, 11:15
The next model will have a slightly taller top housing and have EVF.
It will be a weather sealed black body that will go good with the new Zuiko fast super wide lenses made for the m43.
Pickett Wilson
06-19-2009, 11:17
Whoever came up with the idea to attach the "Pen" name to this camera was a genius.
Definitely not, after watching the video in the other thread.
climbing_vine
06-19-2009, 11:19
There is issues already, though. I question its image quality somewhat (I was spoiled rotten by the DP1 and my recent D700). It appears to be on par with if not slightly inferior to the Canon G10 in terms of resolving power and image quality in bright daylight. Noise is quite strong. Is nice noise, though, compared with many other cameras. I don't like that the rolling control looks to be right where my thumb is likely to rest much of the time...
The image quality of the EP-1 blows the G10 out of the water. I'm sure you're not just making this up, so you must have seen some poor (or biased) tests somewhere. The G10, while interesting for its feature set, is the same imaging machine as Canon's cheap, noisy, pocket P&S. Tiny sensor, junky lens (comparatively--I use and like the Powershots, but neither the lenses nor the sensors begin to compare to something like the EP-1 or DP2).
Pickett Wilson
06-19-2009, 11:55
Just read the latest review - just posted - over at the Online Photogrpaher on the E-P1. Very positive, except for manual focusing an OM lens, which he declared just too fussy.
I really want to test one, desperate to know about shutter lag. I'd happily sell my other gear for this as it seems to fit with everything I want. Actually I just lied, I'd always keep my Contax G1 as I adore it, and I'd never sell my Oly as it's proper good. Guess I'm just gonna have to save. :)
digitalintrigue
06-19-2009, 12:20
I didn't see any problems with shutter lag.
When I compared the autofocus, the G1 seemed a tad quicker, but maybe that was just due to my familiarity with the G1, or it could have been because the G1 AF is very smooth, where the E-P1 seemed to have more vibration in the lens.
The E-P1 seems very solidly built, especially comparing the shutter feel between the E-P1 and the G1. Kinda like comparing a Leica M7 to a Bessa or something. Not sure if that gives everyone a good idea of what I'm trying to describe, or not. Even though the camera is light, it seems very solid compared to the G1.
I tried the Hawk c-mount/Pen F adapter, the Milich LTM, and the Milich M adapter, they all fit fine. The Jinfinance Pen F adapter would not mount at all, there is some conflict that prevents it from turning onto the bayonet.
Here are some photos of the camera with adapted lenses:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3395/3642219298_d539e47a49_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3581/3642218424_ab9265eb18_b.jpg
And lastly a shot taken with the E-P1 using a 40/1.4 Pen F lens, focus was on the 4/3 logo on the E-30.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3641417485_b13965831e_b.jpg
Focusing with legacy lenses works pretty much the same as on the G1, except that a half-press of the shutter button does not revert the image back to live view, it remains magnified. To turn off magnification, fire the shutter or press the ok button.
Also, the rep said that the Info button would 'remember' the last function pressed but I couldn't get this to work for some reason, or maybe I misunderstood him. The info button will bring up several other options including the manual focus box (which can be moved around the screen the same way it works on the G1) but sometimes I had to press the Info several times, cycling thru these other options, before getting to the manual focus box.
photony texas
06-19-2009, 13:37
Touched it today...
I just held one for 2 minutes...It was at a local camera store in Austin, Texas and a Olympus representative had it. It seemed to focus quickly, the lcd was nice, felt good in the hand and the shutter was very quiet, a dull cluck sound. It was lighter than I thought it would be and the stainless finish looked good. The rep mounted a adapter and put on a huge fisheye lens, the lens was bigger and heavier than the camera with the balance point all in holding the lens, very comfortable. No time to do anything with it but the menu seemed easy to navigate.
If I go digital this probably would be it...!
The next model will have a slightly taller top housing and have EVF.
It will be a weather sealed black body that will go good with the new Zuiko fast super wide lenses made for the m43.
In that case, I wait. And save up, cuz it won't be cheap.
willie_901
06-19-2009, 14:05
Now that the EP-1 is known, I realize the G1 is best for me. I can't see myself using the EP1 LCD to focus my MF lenses.
I hate the G1 hump and I want the harder to find, more expensive black body. When the G1H becomes readily available the G1 price has to fall. Maybe I'll pounce then.
Then again... how exactly does one acquire an RD-1X?
digitalintrigue
06-19-2009, 14:25
Touched it today...
I just held one for 2 minutes...It was at a local camera store in Austin, Texas and a Olympus representative had it.
That's the same camera in the photos above. :)
Ronald_H
06-19-2009, 14:34
Just read the latest review - just posted - over at the Online Photogrpaher on the E-P1. Very positive, except for manual focusing an OM lens, which he declared just too fussy.
But all this garment-rending and teeth-gnashing about the E-P1 not having an OVF is just...misguided. Mistaken. Not gettin' it. Just try imagining it—what is it you want? How would it work? What would the problems be? Try imagining it, and you'll see. You want handling like a Porsche or hauling like a semi? You can't have both at once.
Ahhhh... I love the guy who wrote this.
amateriat
06-19-2009, 15:34
But all this garment-rending and teeth-gnashing about the E-P1 not having an OVF is just...misguided. Mistaken. Not gettin' it. Just try imagining it—what is it you want? How would it work? What would the problems be? Try imagining it, and you'll see. You want handling like a Porsche or hauling like a semi? You can't have both at once.
Ahhhh... I love the guy who wrote this.
Say what?
http://mysite.verizon.net/bwbenton/Olympus/C-8080/C8080-3.jpg
Ye Olde C-8080. Imagine this in a µ 4/3 design....
Nobody tell me it can't be done, or is in some way undesirable...(think Porsche Cayenne).
- Barrett
Barrett,
Yes, it can be done, but not (at lest for the foreseeable furure) at the same size. My guess is it will be of a size between the E-P1 and the 8080.
And remember, the 8080 is a fixed lens camera. Interchangeable lens capability complicates matters considerably.
helenhill
06-19-2009, 16:32
NOT IN yet...Film still RULES
but I DO WANT a compact digital.....
I'm on the FENCE
and have it narrowed down to the Gx200 / DP2 / EP1...:rolleyes:
Cheers-H
amateriat
06-19-2009, 16:44
Trius: True...and hopefully, Olympus is already on the case.
Helen: What you said. But I can wait it out.
-Barrett
Nobody tell me it can't be done, or is in some way undesirable...(think Porsche Cayenne).- Barrett
The 8080 used a smaller sensor and is bigger than the EP1. You'd just end up with something the size of an Oly 4/3 DSLR, and that's already available on the market. The only advantage over the regular 4/3 cameras would be the possibility of using non 4/3 lenses.
Jamie Pillers
06-19-2009, 22:00
There WILL be camera like the EP-1 with viewfinders... the Panasonic G1 is an example. They will be EVFs, but these are getting more and more accurate and clear. EP-1 meets G1. It'll happen.
amateriat
06-19-2009, 22:11
The 8080 used a smaller sensor and is bigger than the EP1. You'd just end up with something the size of an Oly 4/3 DSLR, and that's already available on the market. The only advantage over the regular 4/3 cameras would be the possibility of using non 4/3 lenses.
But then, there's the issue of the missing (to my mind) optical/electronic VF. And a camera that reduces options in this regard is inadequate by my lights, a way of saying this is something of a non-serious camera for largely-casual pursuits. Which is cool, because most cameras, including a lot of film/digital SLRs, were/are made with this in mind. It's just that the asking price is a stunning amount to ask for such a compromise.
It's like a lot of things: you can't miss it if you've never had it. And, if you've never had it, so what? But, what if you have had it?
Time to buy some more film. ;)
- Barrett
Add me to the list of people who went out and bought a G1 after the full details of the Oly came out. I took the G1 out and about today for the first time today and it's a really neat, well resolved package, and having the flippy out screen and the optical viewfinder make it more versatile, to me, as a carry around camera for days out etc. I actually probably used the screen for more than 80% of my shots today, but having the OVF is handy at times, particularly when you have strong sunlight behind you. I have an 8080 as well and the G1 is very much a replacemetn for that to me, but with proper quick focus, minimal shutter lag, better noise performance etc. The price difference between Oly and Pany was signficant to me too - I'm struggling to see what else I get for my cash with an EP-1 to justify so much more money for less camera (in some ways!).
a way of saying this is something of a non-serious camera for largely-casual pursuits.
Until a modern-day HCB sticks a Biogon 25/2.8 on it and uses it decisively. :p
Time to buy some more film. ;)
- Barrett
Agreed.
amateriat
06-20-2009, 21:17
The 8080 used a smaller sensor and is bigger than the EP1. You'd just end up with something the size of an Oly 4/3 DSLR, and that's already available on the market. The only advantage over the regular 4/3 cameras would be the possibility of using non 4/3 lenses.
I messed around with an Olympus E-3, and I came away seriously disappointed at the size of that camera. The 8080 is dwarfed by this thing. (The stovepipe zoom that was bolted to the E-3 didn't help matters much.) The current pro dSLR paradigm has outlived its usefulness IMO. I can think of one or two saner approaches, but there will likely be other outside forces that upset this particular applecart instead, and, to my mind, they will be even less palatable from a creative/aesthetic standpoint. But I've been proven wrong before.
- Barrett
I messed around with an Olympus E-3, and I came away seriously disappointed at the size of that camera. The 8080 is dwarfed by this thing.- Barrett
I was referring more to the 520/620 form, as seen on this comparison from dpreview:
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/OlympusE30/images/compared_oly.jpg
This pic compares the E-P1 and the 620:
http://reviews.photographyreview.com/files/2009/06/olympus_e-p1-e-620-front.jpg
This pic compares the G1 with the E-P1:
http://43rumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/img_0073.jpg
Not sure. A big reason for me to purchase would be if it could use my Leica M lenses. Which in theory it can given use of the micro 4/3 format. But without a built in finder this would mean focusing using the rear LCD (I would suppose) then composing using a separate finder. There is no way you will find me composing using the damned outstretched arm technique (if you can call it that) which seems so common today. In this sense I am a traditionalist. Using a viewfinder of some sort is the only way o compose and it adds steadiness to the shot that you cannot get with that other abomination of an approach. Perhaps if the camera is good enough I could be interested in using it with its pancake lens and supplied finder....perhaps!
FrozenInTime
06-20-2009, 23:34
I'm expecting very little difference ( other than size ) compared to using the E-420 plus 25 f/2.8 pancake:
The E-420 viewfinder is basically for composition only - sharp accurate focusing with such low viewfinder magnification is all but impossible.
You are reliant on the AF accuracy or need to switch to live-view x10 on the rear LCD.
The E-P1 is not going to be that different ( using the 17mm and OVF ) single AF using the AFL button while framing with the OVF.
Longer and wider lenses are not going to be as convenient and would really be best left to a DSLR or G1/E-P2? with EVF.
I'm expecting very little difference ( other than size ) compared to using the E-420 plus 25 f/2.8 pancake...
You might be slightly disappointed by the EP1's 1-second focusing speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXMVvFJ6oJU&NR=1
Pickett Wilson
06-21-2009, 03:19
That's kind of trippy watching it focus in the LCD! ;)
You can prefocus with a half press of the shutter button I assume? Not best for fast action, but I don't think this camera was intended for action photography.
The inside of the camera don't seem to be up to the mechanical state of the PEN F (1963)...
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/olumpus-e-p1-guts-2.jpg
FrozenInTime
06-21-2009, 03:40
The focus delay shown on the video does not worry me - similar time to manually focusing a Leica M if not pre-focused.
I never would have expected it to track fast moving cars or children.
To avoid shutter release delay, I already only use the E-420+25 in pre-focus mode with one shot manual focus assigned to the AEL/AFL button.
The inside of the camera don't seem to be up to the mechanical state of the PEN F (1963)...
Engineering plastic might be more precise than hand finished metal castings circa 1963.
It looks like it's going to be very easy to customize:
some sandpaper, primer and a tin of spray paint and you have your own a black paint special limited edition version ( some will be more adventurous - red/yellow/safari-green etc. ).
With a removable plate casing, its possible 3rd party manufacturers will come up with after market ones in various styles and colors just like for cell phones. very promising.
it's saddens me though that it can't focus on the speed of light since i know people here can focus faster than that all the time! ;-)
I know plastic cameras since the "Macrolon" Minox 35GT in the late seventies, which was, after all, more sturdy than the pure metal Rollei 35.
Nothing against the Panasonic Lumix G-1 too.
My oppinion is that any product shoould show its material with pride and no mimikry, and the best design possible. I'm quite sure sales people will claim the Olympus be a "metal" camera (deserving a higher price), which is, like the picture show, not the case.
shadowfox
06-21-2009, 07:37
With a removable plate casing, its possible 3rd party manufacturers will come up with after market ones in various styles and colors just like for cell phones. very promising.
Oooh I like that idea.
it's saddens me though that it can't focus on the speed of light since i know people here can focus faster than that all the time! ;-)
ken, you're subtle. I like it :)
I no longer put any weight on posts that complain about a feature of a camera without any indications that there is at least some time spent using the feature *on* that said camera.
Most of us keep forgetting that it's the *total sum* of the experience that counts, that's how you use a camera, not one feature at a time, not a single feature all the time.
That and no, there is not a perfect camera.
And the japanese guys talking in the background of this video are saying "yes, this thing is just as slow as the sigma compacts"....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSEN7Eb1VZw&NR=1
MichaelW
06-21-2009, 19:49
It's just another point & shoot digital, dressed up to look like a cool old film camera. I'd as soon use my phone camera as one of these. Same goes for the G1, Sigma, whatever.
climbing_vine
06-21-2009, 19:52
It's just another point & shoot digital, dressed up to look like a cool old film camera. I'd as soon use my phone camera as one of these. Same goes for the G1, Sigma, whatever.
Yes, because point & shoots have manual controls, interchangeable lenses, fast lenses, and sensors over 4 times the size of the largest P&S digicam sensor.
Seriously, if people aren't interested in the camera that's more than fine. But the insistence on calling it a P&S (apparently because it lacks a viewfinder straight out of 1940) just makes you look like a moron. It shares zero characteristics with any digital point-and-shoot. Seriously. Get over yourselves.
climbing_vine
06-21-2009, 20:56
Count me as a maroon then, because it is a point and shoot to me. And I have no doubt that I will own one.
You may see a difference, but it looks almost identical to my current P&S, a Lumix LX3, except for the larger sensor and interchangeable lenses.
Sure you can do clumsy manual focus with it, but any camera without a focus ring, and no viewfinder to focus with, so I have to chimp an LCD, is a P&S.
I have shot a lot of photos with the Lumix P&S, and am not embarrassed by what it is.
Nor should you be. :) But it remains that no camera with full manual controls and interchangeable lenses is a point-and-shoot. Otherwise, what does point-and-shoot mean? Just that the camera *can* do it all for you? Then every camera made since 1988 (except the M8, whoops) is a P&S. So the term becomes meaningless. It means all, therefor nothing.
People derisively calling it that are obviously trying to say it's nothing more than an overpriced Canon G10, which you, Fred, wouldn't do, because it's stupid. :)
I thought all cameras are point and shoot? seriously.
digitalintrigue
06-22-2009, 06:20
What's a maroon? Around here, that means you went to Austin High School. :)
I have not been in the RF forums for some years, mostly lurking from time to time, delurking to get my first rangefinder (a Bessa-R with the CV35/2.5 and 50Nokton) and the EP-1 has got me curious enough to come back here to see the opinions it would generate.
Pretty suprised to see such mixed reactions. To me the EP-1 is like the M8 approximate that I probably will never plonk down the money to buy, albeit without a VF. However the compactness and (assumed) potential versatility of the EP-1 makes it a more compelling buy (more the size) for me than the G1/GH1 (which I'm also considering).
I think designs like this are only going to be better for the hobby as a whole as it makes photography more accessible for a larger audience and is a welcome refresh from the recent megapix and me too! feature wars by many manufacturers.
Rambling aside, for those who have (or are going to try) out the EP-1, do let us all know how the AF feels? Is it close to the speed of the G1 since I've been reading mixed previews online?
Most crucially, how does MF feel on the EP-1, especially if you would need to rely on the LCD to focus in lower lighting conditions? Honestly though I'm not sure how that would work on the G1's EVF in low light as well as I've never been able to test it in lower light conditions.
Tuolumne
06-22-2009, 06:55
Most crucially, how does MF feel on the EP-1, especially if you would need to rely on the LCD to focus in lower lighting conditions? Honestly though I'm not sure how that would work on the G1's EVF in low light as well as I've never been able to test it in lower light conditions.
The G1 does low-light manual focusing with either the EVF or the LCD just dandy. The big issue isn't the quality of the view, it's the shake introduced when putting the camera into hi-magnification mode to do manual focusing. The image does snap into focus when focus is sharp, but it happens very suddenly and it is easy to over shoot or under shoot accurate focus when hand holding the camera, due to camera shake. In-camera IS would have been a real blessing for this. I'm pretty sure this is the issue, because when I mount the camera on a tripod I have no problem getting accurate focus even in very low light. When hand-held, it is a challenge for me even in bright light.
/T
Tuolumne
06-22-2009, 06:58
Amazon just sent out an email promoting the EP-1. You can see the site page here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=pe_17070_12351480_as_img_2/?docId=1000389481&plgroup=1).
/T
I've just had a chat with a guy who's tested one, works for the London Camera Exchange. He said it's sad, but it's a fairly slow camera to use. By no means as quick as a DSLR, even a medium to budget one. I'm sad now.
climbing_vine
06-22-2009, 07:21
I personally define a P&S as any camera with manual controls that are either very clumsy (the Contax G series comes to the front of the line) or almost nonexistent.
Without a rangefinder or an EVF the PEN is very marginally a manual camera, most users will prefer to use it in AF modes.
I would call it a P&S in design, even if it sports many advanced features, and many DSLRs are indeed capable of being used as though they were a simple P&S.
I remain a maroon... :D
I suppose, in a sense, I could agree with that definition to an extent. If the manual controls are there but hard to use, maybe they don't count.
But the focus is but one of the manual controls. If it is slightly sub-par and the rest is fine, I'd still not really see the point in calling it a "point and shoot". My favorite way to "manually" focus, in fact, is to use a cam with AF that has a center-spot setting. Aim straight at whatever I want focused, half-shutter-press to let the camera focus way better than my failing human eyes ever could, and compose. I consider it "manual with an assist". ;) I'm still choosing what's what, I'm just handing over the initial evaluation of whether focus has been achieved. And I'm still handling at least some of the exposure manually (generally, choosing ISO and aperture myself).
To me that's not point-and-shoot. Point-and-shoot is exactly what it says--you don't do *anything* but point the thing, and hit the shutter. Otherwise, again, I think you get on a slippery slope where the phrase is meaningless. And as a human being who likes to talk to other human beings and have some hope of understanding, I hate it when words stop meaning something.
The G1 does low-light manual focusing with either the EVF or the LCD just dandy. The big issue isn't the quality of the view, it's the shake introduced when putting the camera into hi-magnification mode to do manual focusing. The image does snap into focus when focus is sharp, but it happens very suddenly and it is easy to over shoot or under shoot accurate focus when hand holding the camera, due to camera shake. In-camera IS would have been a real blessing for this. I'm pretty sure this is the issue, because when I mount the camera on a tripod I have no problem getting accurate focus even in very low light. When hand-held, it is a challenge for me even in bright light.
/T
Thanks for sharing the experience Tuolumne, I think that sounds to be a very fair assessment. I guess there is no perfect substitute for a good RF viewfinder still.
But if its usable on both the G1 and EP-1, it'll probably be something that I would be keen to give a shot.
EP-1 is very tempting for me due to the in body IS and ability to preset IS for focal lengths. I have an old Nikkor 105/2.5AIS that would be such a nice fit on that camera and with IS would give me a very interesting 210mm stabilised fov : D
Tuolumne
06-22-2009, 08:56
Whatever happened to all of the excitement about the Sigma DP2? Will the EP1 go the same route soon? :rolleyes:
/T
climbing_vine
06-22-2009, 09:24
Since it's a camera that people can use their Leica/CV/Zeiss etc glass on, I doubt it. I imagine it'll keep being a low-level topic of discussion here, coming up slightly more often than the G1.
Pickett Wilson
06-22-2009, 09:37
The hoopla over the G1 died down much more quickly than I thought it would, given the interest in its run up. I think we are just looking for new stuff to play with and after a month or so the new stuff becomes old stuff and we start lusting after the next new thing. :)
Tuolumne
06-22-2009, 09:55
The hoopla over the G1 died down much more quickly than I thought it would, given the interest in its run up. I think we are just looking for new stuff to play with and after a month or so the new stuff becomes old stuff and we start lusting after the next new thing. :)
Consumerism at its worst. Who is rich? He who is satisfied with what he has. Use what you have. Eschew conspicuous or inconspicuous consumption.
/T
What's a maroon? Around here, that means you went to Austin High School. :)
You obviously did not pay attention to Bugs Bunny as a kid. Rabbit as matador, after taking a wrong turn at Albuquerque
What a maroon, IM-bess-ill, gulla-bull or nin-cow-poop. Take your choice :D
Seriously, looks like a nice little camera, versatile, but kinda pricey, IMO
Is he a talented photographer? - He's not too bad, better than the average photo forum poster. On a apr with us lot I'd say.
Have you seen his work? - Yes.
What kind of photographs does he take? - Mainly bands and events.
How long has he been shooting? - A few years.
Does he have experience with classic rangefinders such as Nikon and Leica? - Yes.
His complaint was that it hunted a fair amount, it was much slower than his D300 with a 50mm on, he found the manual controls too fiddly, going through menus etc. I'm looking forward to trying one out, although in most camera shops around here tey wont let you take it outdoors to try it where I'd be using it. They are all in malls, and not near a main entrance. I'd like to test one fully.
I said No, because I just bought me a DP2.
First I was interested in the Ep1 but...
1st. it's too big for a Pocketcamera, the DP2 has the maximum size for me.
2nd. The aggressive Promotion....step after step they announced the world biggest Revolution and how the response of our "...digital Pen"-Thread was they counted the dollars they can make with the name "Olympus" and "Pen"
3rd. I don't like 4/3
I like the design, especially with the Pancake and VF. I hope for Olympus that it's gonna be a big Hit. And maybe one day I'll vote for "maybe" or "yes" but for now it's def a "No"
back alley
06-22-2009, 11:06
i thought that i would be more excited about this camera and then have to start planning to dump the g1...but not so.
no one is more surprised than i.
Pherdinand
06-23-2009, 01:43
where do you load the film?
, it was much slower than his D300 with a 50mm on
Well yes, I'd assume that it would do badly in a direct comparison with a D300!
Stephen S. Mack
06-23-2009, 02:52
What's E Pee One, eh, Precious?
We wonders, yes, we wonders.:D
With best regards to all.
Stephen S. Mack
I've never claimed to be ahead of the curve or even up to date.:p
There really isn't a reply that suits me. I don't like LCD only but might be convinced. I have a G1 and love the EVF. Shot all day today with 5D and G1 so I had to be convinced.
I did expect a good deal--and most of it seems to be true--except a VF. I may wait until Fall and see what both Panasonic and Olympus do and make a decision--or not.
Diane
I have posted before saying probably no as I would want to use it with 3rd party lenses (Leica M and LTM with adapters) but need focus confirmation in a viewfinder to make it a workable option for me - I will not use a damn arms length framing method. An optional electonic add on finder for traditional framing - but with inbuilt focus confirmation a la the little Ricoh GX cameras would have been a pretty good comprimise but without something of this sort on is rather limited in options.
I suppose all cameras are compromises but I honestly dont understand how they did not realise that traditional composition and framing is a dead set requirement for many enthusiasts of the sort who might otherwise buy such a camera.
Gabriel M.A.
06-23-2009, 17:53
I want to put it in my pants like that guy in Spinal Tap.
LOL
::thumbs up::
deepwhite
06-25-2009, 22:29
I already placed an order, and hope that I can get it ASAP.
Why I'm buying one:
[A Small All-In-One DSLR] - I mainly shoot with RFs, wide-angle and 50mm. I want an all-in-one 2nd camera for tele + zoom, and video recording.
I tried the E-P1 last week. Its size is right for my Angenieux 35-140, which will become 70-280 on the E-P1, perfect as my 2nd cam. The 720P video looks good; the sound of the video, however, really surprised me, as I didn't expect sound quality this good from a camera.
There is a margin for everything. For me (a small guy), the size of the E-P1 is right within the margin of my definition for a "small camera".
[Decent MF / I Don't Care About AF] - I don't think I'll be using the kit lenses anyway, as decent as they felt like with my limited experience with them.
I mounted my Summilux 35/1.4 preA on the E-P1. The MF is easier than I thought, and I got not problem focusing it with my eyes staring at the LCD.
[Not To Use the M Lenses or Replace the R-D1s] - I've been very satisfied with the R-D1s, and I'm not planning to use the M lense on the 2x crop E-P1. One thing I'm very interested is to see what a "Nocti-video" is like, but that's probably it. As I said, I'm buying the E-P1 mainly for MF tele-zoom lenses.
Something came in and now I forgot what I was going to say.... I'll just leave them in another reply when they came back to my head.
I mounted my Summilux 35/1.4 preA on the E-P1. The MF is easier than I thought, and I got not problem focusing it with my eyes staring at the LCD.
Can you describe the process of focusing with a manual lens?
deepwhite
06-25-2009, 22:41
Can you describe the process of focusing with a manual lens?
I only got to play with it for 2 minutes (there was a long long line), so I just watched the LCD and turned the focus tab til I thought it was focused. I went home and checked the photo and found it ok (but I deleted it cause it's a bad shot...). I didn't try the "magnifying while focusing" feature as I have with the Panasonic L1.
Ah, ok. I'm curious to find out if one can leave magnify-while-focusing on, focus on the LCD and compose through the optical VF, sort of like a Bessa-T with a very big RF window.
Pickett Wilson
06-25-2009, 23:16
In reference to Colman's post above. This whole things feels like twisting yourself into a pretzel to make a camera somehow work for you. Isn't this thing actually a step backward?
emraphoto
06-25-2009, 23:29
given the design and what not i am wondering if autofocus is even a concern? every digital point and shoot i have used is run in manual focus mode. the sensors generally have deep dof and with a 17mm lens? it seems scale focusing would be adequate for most situations?
case in point the dp1. almost all the reviews and hubbub on the internet complained bitterly of it's slow autofocus (which it most certainly was) yet missed the fact that it had a brilliant manual focus interface and using scale focusing it was very, very quick in shutter response. a great street shooter in my opinion.
well, will i buy it? hmmm not sure. as of late i have come to realize the power of small cameras as photojournalist tools so maybe i will take it for a test drive.
historicist
06-26-2009, 00:05
I had a quick play with one in a shop today. It's surprisingly big and heavy in the hand compared to the pictures, but still small and neat. Build quality seems very high, mid to upper end dslr feel, regardless of what is actually under the metal ;)
The focus was surprisingly fast (under shop flourescent lighting). About the same as any modern compact camera, i.e. not going to give a D3 sleepless nights but fast enough for non-sports uses. Bit better than DP2 I think, not as good as G1, but better than I had expected.
In reference to Colman's post above. This whole things feels like twisting yourself into a pretzel to make a camera somehow work for you. Isn't this thing actually a step backward?
Only if you can justify an M8. My interest is two-fold: as a good digital snap-shot adjunct to a film R3A and as a platform for using some of the lenses for the film cameras in a different context - in particular low-light social stuff, so that a 80/1.4 equiv becomes a useful thing to have, especially with IS.
I can carry an R3a, three lenses some film and an E-P1 with 17mm and M adaptor with the nappy bag and the kid in a sling. Packing my D200 is a bit more troublesome.
Sure, it's a compromise - I'd prefer an M8.2 - but I can't justify the price.
FrozenInTime
06-26-2009, 03:21
Ah, ok. I'm curious to find out if one can leave magnify-while-focusing on, focus on the LCD and compose through the optical VF, sort of like a Bessa-T with a very big RF window.
I had a few minutes with a E-P1 today so can confirm that if MF is selected on the camera, once live-view x10 has been selected, it stays up in that mode between shots.
If S-AF+MF is selected the x10 cancels after the shutter is pressed.
I think it will be quite useable in that x10/OVF mode with the 17mm lens.
I briefly tried the ZM18 and M35'lux on the camera but it's was difficult to draw any quality conclusions from a few seconds in a shop.
Jessops in Edinburgh have a pile of zoom kits but no 17mm kits for another 2-3 weeks.
I pre-paid for the 17mm and got one of the launch issue cartridge pens (looked like they had 3 more left).
All uncropped at ISO 1600 ;
Olympus 17mm @f/4
http://www.donaldingram.com/ForumImages/EP1_Jessops.jpg
Zeiss ZM18 @f/4
http://www.donaldingram.com/ForumImages/EP1_ZM18.jpg
Leica 35'lux ASPH @f/1.4
http://www.donaldingram.com/ForumImages/EP1_35lux.jpg
Leica 35'lux ASPH @f/1.4 (ISO200)
I think they are a lot more interested with the novelty of a real camera, my M6, than the E-P1.
Donald Spence of Olympus took some picture of the E-P1 with ZM18 mounted and said he would e-mail them later.
http://www.donaldingram.com/ForumImages/EP1_M6.jpg
Pickett Wilson
06-26-2009, 03:26
Would like to see a file shot at 1600 in bad light. Hard to tell much from what I've seen.
I've just had a chat with a guy who's tested one, works for the London Camera Exchange. He said it's sad, but it's a fairly slow camera to use. By no means as quick as a DSLR, even a medium to budget one. I'm sad now.
If it was a Leica M the spin would be that it slows you down and lets you concentrate on the subject. :angel:
giellaleafapmu
07-01-2009, 07:11
Interesting thread...
Olympus has been making first class optical and medical instruments for ages and has produced some of the very few lenses which are both relatively cheap and can compete with glasses like Leica's or Zeiss' and people has doubts about their small pancake. It has a line of DSLRs on the market which use sensors of the same size as m4/3's and can compete with all but possibly the most advanced full frame professional cameras and many think this will have a "typical compact digital camera quality"... Someone in an older thread even said that Olympus was going to disappear soon as well as the memory that it ever existed...
Of course, I have not seen the camera so everything could happen for this product but I think the lenses will be as good as their previous creations, the image quality in line with E-3's quality and autofocus will be at least as good as my E-330's (I also have a Fuji S5, a Nikon D300 and I have tried the D700 and the Canon EOS 5D and cannot tell any real difference except for the number of focus spots).
As usual, their prices are high for new cameras but they will go down in a while as they always did (I got my E-330 for some 350US$ with the standard zoom lens and about one year earlier it was almost 1000US$!).
Also their marketing is strange as always but after all they are a microscope and medical equipment company which also makes camera God knows why and whose main market as far as I know is Japan so probably they don't care.
In conclusion, I am not dying to get one of these but when the time will come to find a new body for my 11-22 and 25 pancake lenses I shall definitively consider one of these...even without optical viewfinder!
GLF
I've posted another thread regarding this, but after testing one today I was a tad disappointed. The focus was slow and the controls for manual seemed to awkward, too many little buttons and not enough chunky twizel knobs. Why can't somebody make a digital Contax G1? Why must everything be made so complex, who cares about art modes?
Yes, the art mode thing is just ridiculous.
I will wait for the next generation MFT from Panasonic.
flatulent1
07-04-2009, 19:15
My choice isn't available in the poll. I vote No, simply because I'm not interested in another digital camera that I'll rarely use. I've been very happy with film for a lot of years. My 5D is collecting dust on a shelf while I'm shooting T90s, Canonets, and my XA. Gotta get me another one of those soon.
I got to fondle one this morning when I was on the prowl in East London (Brick Lane & Columbia road are great places for cool camera-spotting_.
I'm really impressed by it, the screen is better than I suspected, functionally I thought it seemed far superior to my G9. (Especially as my G9's dead). Focusing seemed on a par (this was bright light); shutter lag seemed about as poor, but tha tmight have been my inexperience.
But then the friendly guy I met told me how much he'd paid for it. £700, from Jessop's. I remember the other Olympus models like the E-420 wiht the 14-42mm lens retailing around £295. That's a scary premium for being compact and cute...
I had another play with one today, and came away with the same conclusions I had the first time. This is just an expensive point and shoot with an ability to swap lenses which will attract a lot of the potential small DSLR buyers away from Canon and Nikon and towards Oly. It's pretty much entirely made of plastic, the demo model had been fondled a fair bit but was starting to show wear already. It's only been out two weeks, it doesn't bode well.
Personally I'm saving for the M8.2 and the M2.
I ordered one and plan to use it with Voigtlander lenses via the M-mount adapter ring. Using the 15mm/4.5 paired with a 28mm viewfinder and the 28mm/2.0 paired with a 50mm viewfinder, I think this camera will be the perfect digital rangefinder. By using hot-shoe viewfinders and manual focus lenses, all complaints about the lack of a viewfinder or auto-focus issues go away. As for the low res LCD, who cares. My film rangefinder has no LCD.
I also have a 40mm/1.4, but at 80mm FOV I figure I will simply use the LCD with this lens. The camera should arrive early next week, I will follow up with impressions.
tritiated
07-06-2009, 02:27
I wouldn't buy it - a system camera that would clash with my film rangefinder (Bessa r3a); in terms of size, price and additional lenses to carry (I would prefer to use prime lenses). If I was desparate for compact interchangeable digital - would prefer the E420 (+25mm pancake) for a small digital package that would handle better.
It doesn't so far have any advantages over any other system as far as I can tell. It represents innovative steps forward and looks great - it just isn't for me. Perhaps if I was about to buy my first camera? who knows.
I can imagine my girlfriend would really like it though (until she sees the price).
Oh, and I can't abide looking at an LCD screen all the time - batteries would be eaten up in no time!
At least with DSLR you don't have to have the LCD turned on.
I wouldn't buy it - a system camera that would clash with my film rangefinder (Bessa r3a); in terms of size, price and additional lenses to carry (I would prefer to use prime lenses). Oh, and I can't abide looking at an LCD screen all the time - batteries would be eaten up in no time!
At least with DSLR you don't have to have the LCD turned on .
But with the Micro 4/3 you would not need any additional lenses. Simply use your VC lenses via the adapter ring. With added hot-shoe viewfinders you don't need to use the LCD.
Pickett Wilson
07-06-2009, 11:45
Well, you still need to focus and that's going to happen with the LCD.
Since the camera is half-frame, you can use the 15mm to get a 30mm FOV. At f/8, this lens is in focus from 0.5 meter to infinity. No need to focus. With longer lenses or smaller apertures, yes you will need to focus a bit by feel using the focusing tab on the lens, or if necessary the LCD.
Pickett Wilson
07-06-2009, 13:05
If you're happy with a $800 fixed focus camera, I guess that works!
If you're happy with a $800 fixed focus camera, I guess that works!
Do you use a prime lens on your 5D?
sevres_babylone
07-06-2009, 13:31
Oh, and I can't abide looking at an LCD screen all the time - batteries would be eaten up in no time!
I'm not sure how much battery usage is due to the LCD as opposed to other camera functions. The battery in my Ricoh GRDII lasts a really long time, while the one in my R-D1, with LCD off most of the time, lasts a lot less. I realize we're talking about different battery types, but it does make me think there are other camera functions more responsible for battery use.
I gotta say that, although it doesn't look like a street camera (whatever that is,) my G1 sure performs like one. I use the EVF exclusively, and when not up to your face it blanks out, helping to conserve battery power. I sometimes shoot in RAW+JPEG mode, with B/W film mode for the JPEGs so I can previsualize the scene on the EVF iin B/W but still have the full-color RAW file with which to do channel mixer in post. It doesn"t look like a functional street camera, but it sure acts like one.
Appearances are deceiving; that's the fallacy of buying cameras based on what they look like, rather than how they perform.
~Joe
Got to compare the Oly to a G1 this afternoon for about 20 minutes. What I wanted to inspect was the EP1's AF speed especially indoors. This obviously was not an extensive test, but I found the EP1's AF quite slow (both cameras had the zoom). It seemed to go through the entire range before it would lock focus on the subject. The G1 on the other hand was very quick - I was quite suprised at how fast it would lock on.
What did you guys think about its AF?
Perhaps a firmware update can speed things up a bit?
The zoom was the only available lens there, but I found that it pretty much negated any size advantage it had over the G1 due to it having to extend in order to be used. This was a little awkward I thought... on the other hand, I can imagine how nice this set up would be with the 17mm or the upcoming 20mm...
Yeah, firmware to a certain extent can improve these things... plus they need to have an option to disable LCD screens for those who don't use it.
mfunnell
07-17-2009, 04:03
I bought an Ep-1 the other dayFred, did you get the 17mm lens, or the zoom (or both)? I'd be most interested to hear your impressions of the camera in practical use.
...Mike
ABarGrill
07-17-2009, 05:23
Well, I went ahead and bought one with the 14-45 lens. It has arrived and I plan on trying it out this weekend. I have a 28mm finder that I'll probably put into the flash/finder holding bracket. Would that make it a rangefinder for purposes of this group?
mfunnell
07-17-2009, 06:16
Now for some initial nuts and bolts...Most interesting. Thanks - and keep us informed.
...Mike
digitalintrigue
07-17-2009, 06:20
Fred, the viewfinder is 4:3. Why do you say the Pen is 'very large?' I always thought the original Pen was a very small SLR... :)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3551/3641124013_df4c68e87f.jpg
digitalintrigue
07-17-2009, 07:18
Looks quite a bit smaller than the S2, but extending the zoom exaggerates things. :)
mfunnell
07-17-2009, 07:22
Looks quite a bit smaller than the S2, but extending the zoom exaggerates things. :)So try not to get it excited :o
...Mike
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